(cache) Organization aimed at ending non-consensual pornography online : TwoXChromosomes


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Organization aimed at ending non-consensual pornography online (cybercivilrights.org)

James_Byrd が 12 時間前投稿

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[–]darwin2500 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 10 時間前 (1子コメント)

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[–]James_Byrd[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 11 時間前 (16子コメント)

[–]danheskett 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 10 時間前 (14子コメント)

The problem is this organization is trying to make a new right, one that is weird and hard to enforce.

Consider this scenario. You are having sexy time with a friend. You allow friend to take a photo of you, while naked or having sexy time. That photograph is owned by the photographer. You, as the subject, do not own the photograph. Preventing the copyright holder from using that photo for whatever non-commercial purpose he or she wants is legally very difficult. There is no plausible legal scenario where an American law would be able to circumvent Federal copyright statue and 1st amendment law, that would not basically break a huge chunk of American jurisprudence. Laws that go down that road are probably unconstitutional and in conflict with existing copyright law.

Other scenarios are easier but still difficult to regulate. If you take a selfie while involved in sexy time with a friend, you own the copyright. If you share it with the partner, electronically, that person is prohibited by copyright from making more copies, unless a fair use exception exists. Let's say that your friend and you are no longer speaking. And your friend wants to do something painful and hurtful. Your friend is protected by fair use if he or she makes a parody or satire of your sexy-time photograph and republishes it.

It is much easier to simply teach people a few simple facts:

a. If you allow a partner to take, or send to that partner, photos, it's impossible to control where they will end up. If you want photos, use your own camera, and don't send them. Let your partner view them only.

b. If you allow another person to take photos of you, presume that will be used for anything, up to including publishing on websites or social media.

That's really it. Just let's start teaching this, and promoting it, and we won't have to break the US legal system making up new, hard to enforce, hard to define, easy to abuse, rights.

[+]James_Byrd[S] スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント 10 時間前* (12子コメント)

First of all no one has a copyright to another person. Also, even a professional photographer has to get signed consent of the models before distributing pictures taken from his or her camera. Also, no one has copyright to sexually victimize anyone. It's not like sharing music or regular movies. It is about sharing sex with someone knowing that you are safe with them. Just because that sex happened to be recorded doesn't mean you gave the person the consent to share your sexuality with everyone and their mother out there lol. I love copyright arguments. Again reducing women to mere property of others simply because they practiced kink. We are talking about people here. Laws will deter angry exes from cyber-raping their former partners because they will know that they will be committing crime. It may not prevent every act of revenge porn but at least many will have to think twice before committing such heinous acts. Right now guys know they can get away with it because it is only illegal to post revenge porn in 13 states only. So they can laugh at the expense of their victims fully knowing only thing a victim can do is get further shamed by society if she does speak up.

[–]pleurocarp 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 10 時間前* (0子コメント)

[–]danheskett 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 10 時間前 (8子コメント)

First of all no one has a copyright to another person.

That's a silly comment. If you take a photograph, you own the copyright to the photo.

Also, even a professional photographer has to get signed consent of the models before distributing pictures taken from his or her camera.

A model release is only required if the person is recognizable (which if you show the face, is a no brainer) and if the photo is used for an advertisement, or to advance a substantial commercial interest. If those conditions are not met, you don't need a release from the subject of a photograph. This means if you are having an intimate moment with a partner, and you snap a photo of the partner, you can do whatever you want with the photo without using as a business, or selling it for money. There are some states with more restrictive laws, but most are already struck down. This is very old law, copyright law, it's not very interesting.

Also, no one has copyright to sexually victimize anyone.

Not true. There are some states with revenge porn laws, but they deal with photographs that are owned by the subject. California has tried to block it whether it's by either party in a sexual act, but it's filled with a lot of holes. There are lots of good explanations of why these laws are 1st amendment landmines. For example: http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericgoldman/2013/10/08/californias-new-law-shows-its-not-easy-to-regulate-revenge-porn/

So suffice it so say, in most states, if two people are having sex, and one records it, the person doing the recording can do almost anything with it, including giving it away or putting it on billboards, and there is nothing the other partner can do to stop it or prevent it.

ust because that sex happened to be recorded doesn't mean you gave the person the consent to share your sexuality with everyone and their mother out there lol.

Yes it does.

Again reducing women to mere property of others simply because they practiced kink

In this case, it's not the woman who is the property, it is the photo. The photo is exclusive property of the photographer.

We are talking about people here.

No, just photos of people.

Laws will deter angry exes from cyber-raping their former partners because they will know that they will be committing crime.

So far that isn't the case, and anyways, absent other crimes, the core acts of redistributing previously private photos are not at risk.

Right now guys know they can get away with it because it is only illegal to post revenge porn in 13 states only.

It is not illegal in any state, with the exception of California with lots of exceptions, to post "revenge porn" of a photo that you actually took. Look carefully at the laws in question and you will find that you are mistaken.

So they can laugh at the expense of their victims fully knowing only thing a victim can do is get further shamed by society if she does speak up.

Yes, there is not much you can do. Instead of trying to break the legal system, just teach people the basics. Don't allow your partner to take naked photos. Don't take naked photos. Don't share your naked photos. That's a much easier solution.

There is a big gap between what you think reality is, and the actual reality.

[–]James_Byrd[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 9 時間前* (7子コメント)

Reality is that people can sing copyright arguments when it comes to cyber-raping victims of non-consensual pornography because as you so eloquently just proved it is legal to do so. This only illustrates the necessity to make it illegal to violate others right to privacy in sexual situations. I will not engage in slut-shaming at any cost. People have a right to express their sexuality on or off camera without fear of being violated by others. I know exactly what the reality is which is why it is necessary to make revenge porn a crime. If it became a statewide and federal crime then people will not be so quick to click away and ruin other's lives. Images or not it is still a question of victimizing women. It happens to men too and not every victim of revenge porn is even aware that he/she is being photographed or videotaped. Even you can unknowingly become a victim of revenge porn while say perhaps changing clothes in a fitting room or maybe using either a public or private bathroom at work or even friend's house. Let's say I want to ruin the life of a high-powered attorney or perhaps a budding businessman. All I have to do is to arrange to capture their intimate moments on any digital device, upload it to various porn sites along with their personally identifying information and send links to their friends, family members, co-workers, church members, and anyone else I can think of along with millions of others on porn sites and add spiffy tags such as gay lawyer, studly business man like ****, or whatever else that my heart desires. Happens! I think if it started happening to more and more high powered men then society will quickly toss out copyright and freedom of speech arguments and recognize the reality is that we are condoning and promoting cyber-rape disguised as our personal rights over others.

[–]danheskett 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 9 時間前 (6子コメント)

Even you can unknowingly become a victim of revenge porn while say perhaps changing clothes in a fitting room or maybe using either a public or private bathroom at work or even friend's house.

In these cases, making the record is illegal. That's all we need, no new laws are required. Hidden recording is long and well tested law, and it's not in need of any updating. Any of those situations are clear and cut violations of existing state and Federal law.

Happens! I think if it started happening to more and more high powered men then society will quickly toss out copyright and freedom of speech arguments and recognize the reality is that we are condoning and promoting cyber-rape disguised as our personal rights over others.

The problem is that high-powered men and women know that you don't let other people photograph moments that are private. And that's why you only see occasionally high-powered people suffering this embarrassment.

This only illustrates the necessity to make it illegal to violate others right to privacy in sexual situations.

Look, I want to keep this constructive. You keep saying "violate others right to privacy". There is no general right to privacy. There are all sorts other rights that revenge porn violates. For example:

Copyright. If you take a photo of yourself and a partner engaging in private moments, and send to the partner, and the partner then publishes it, it is a copyright violation. Those are real crimes, and there are real punishments available. There are no first amendment concerns with it either. It's well litigated and very well understood.
Theft or Computer Abuse. If a partner breaks into your phone or e-mail to steal photos that you own, that's more serious than copyright violations, and there are really serious consequences available.
Harassment. If a partner or ex-partner publishes photos of you and incites others to harm you, or to harass you, that person has committed a serious crime.
Wiretapping. If you are recorded or photo'd without your knowledge, in a place that you expect to private, the person doing the recording has violated a law with serious teeth.

The problem with the new cyber-stalking, anti-doxxing, anti-revenge porn, and cyber-bullying laws are that they are either (a) toothless or (b) unconstitutional, and likely to be overturned. Building a future on these laws is a bad idea.

Instead, there needs to be an approach that will last. That is: (a) teaching people not to take the photos to begin with and (b) enforcement of existing laws that protect against general behavior that occurs in the context of revenge porn.

[–]James_Byrd[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 9 時間前 (5子コメント)

Again I refuse to teach people: mostly women as they are the primary victims of revenge porn to repress their sexuality because we don't have laws to protect them from being cyber-raped. Also, I have posted two links below which actually reiterate what you said about copyright. What needs to happen is we need to teach our men not to violate the basic human rights of women to express their sexuality without fear of having their sexuality used as a weapon against them one day by them when the relationship goes sour. The sexually explicit video of a woman in the case of first man in Maryland were made by her yet her partner plastered her porn on numerous porn sites. I highly doubt he will get even a slap on the hand for that since people are arguing that if a victim of revenge porn takes her own images and shares it with her partner then she is giving up her right to say no to having her porn plastered all over the net. Are you a lawyer by the way? Just wondering? Would love to talk to you more inbox me please :-).

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Revenge-Porn-Victim-I-Felt-Helpless-Maryland-280252532.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand#comments

[–]danheskett 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 8 時間前 (4子コメント)

The Maryland law is very problematic, we'll see what happens with it. I don't think it will survive any review at all. It could be years before it gets overturned, or it could be the very first judge who hears a case based on it. When it was passed there was a lot of useful debate about it's legal merits, and I think the balance of it was negative on it's legality.

I don't think we disagree with the merits of the dangers of revenge porn, I just don't think the issue is important or serious enough to wreck the Constitution or the 1st amendment to curb. Especially when there are less legally harmful ways to get the same result.

My main point about educating people is that almost everyone assumes it's illegal for the photos to be posted, and most people erroneously believe they have a right not to be photographed, and not to have photos of them posted online. Generally this isn't the case. So when a woman takes a photo, or allows one to be taken, they thinking it's private, when in reality, the privacy is by courtesy only.

I don't think it's long term smart to tell anyone that there is a legal barrier preventing someone from distributing sexually explicit photos taken consensually between adults. I think giving woman (and men) the tools to know what the reality of the legal landscape is will help them to make choices that protect themselves better.

Judges and law are hard to predict, but I think within 5-10 years, we'll be backwards of where we are now in terms of legal protections against revenge porn. It could taken up in the next Supreme Court term, or decided at a lower level this year or next.

[–]James_Byrd[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 7 時間前 (3子コメント)

I still firmly believe that issue of revenge porn is a very important matter indeed to those who actually experience it. It is an extension of domestic violence and sexual violence against women. Rape is rape online or offline. Sex crimes deserve every bit of attention. Very few will passionately defend online or offline child poronography by using freedom of speech or copyright arguments. Same respect and importance should be afforded to adult victims of non-consensual pornography as well. Just because they are older doesn't make it any less damaging than it is for a child. Those are my two cents on the matter and I am sure once more victims come to the forefront and break the silence lawmakers will begin to take this problem more seriously. Others countries such as Israel and UK have already recognized the seriousness of revenge porn and have made revenge porn a crime. It's only a matter of time when U.S. too will follow suit.

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Beg to differ but laws and law enforcement is barely doing a good job at preventing sexual victimization of women online. Revenge porn is perfectly legal in countless states and even with laws present it is hard to prosecute mischievous angry ex-partners who decide to sexually humiliate their former partners and then there are those who decide to post non-consensual pornography even without knowing the victims just because they can. Revenge porn is not regulated and in fact I can even post sexually explicit pictures of you and your family members if I wanted to do so from the states that it is legal to do so on famous porn sites and have it go viral in just a matter of few hours. And good luck trying to get the porn sites to remove the porn I post up without you or your family member's consent because it takes time to get help as you will have to submit online requests to each porn site I upload it to and that can take days and by that time it will only get picked up by other porn sites and probably be re-posted by others who downloaded it and decided to share it as well. Not trying to disrespect you but just telling you the reality of the porn industry which includes porn sites that allow revenge porn. By the way guys are also giving out personally identifying information of their victims which endangers their safety and well being. Pink Meth is one such Tor site that is part of the "dark net."

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