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Chris Kluwe eviscerates the libertarian #GamerGate movement (medium.com)

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[–]Cruven 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

B-but muh ethics in games journalism...

[–]jbh007 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

 #Sploosh

[–]f3yleaf 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Hardly libertarian, I think there are still more liberals then libertarians, tho its obviously red meat for right-wingers(kinda bad timing for democrats I guess?)

its actually fun to see people who disagree wildly on most things come together, if nothing else it has created alot of consumer awareness, with people who would never have dreamt of sending a complaint letter to a corporation, suddenly being aware of the power they hold.

[–]LRonPaul2012 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Hardly libertarian, I think there are still more liberals then libertarians, tho its obviously red meat for right-wingers(kinda bad timing for democrats I guess?)

It's more anti-feminist than anything else, which is not liberal by any means.

its actually fun to see people who disagree wildly on most things come together, if nothing else it has created alot of consumer awareness, with people who would never have dreamt of sending a complaint letter to a corporation, suddenly being aware of the power they hold.

LOL, wut? This sounds like classic Ron Paul levels of delusion talking about how all of America is now starting to wake up and care about the issues that matter because RON PAUL!!!

GamerGate is about silencing and intimidating anyone who doesn't conform to the white male stereotype. It's the antithesis of consumer awareness.

[–]f3yleaf 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Actually its not, its mostly about nepotism, with an undertone of rejection of political correctness, started as a bit of a riot tho.

I got involved because some people were shitting up my indie scene and turning it into a circle jerk/reputation cartel.

http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/100928281540/an-explanation-of-gamergate-for-non-gamers <-Best analysis I have seen if you care, She points out alot of the problems with GamerGate aswell.

I just wanted to point out that GamerGate is not really a libertarian thing, not have a discussion on the merits of GamerGate.

edit:touchy subject atm, alot of flamewars.

[–]LRonPaul2012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Actually its not, its mostly about nepotism

Funny how the only targets seem to be proponent of feminism.

Pretty much all of the main figure heads of GamerGate are non-gamers and non-journalists pretending to care about game journalism. The one trait they all seem to have in common is that they're right wing hacks who hate feminism with a burning passion.

I got involved because some people were shitting up my indie scene and turning it into a circle jerk/reputation cartel.

And usually when they talking about "shitting up my indie scene," what they mean is a tiny percent of gaming articles that cover feminist criticism.

I just wanted to point out that GamerGate is not really a libertarian thing

But it is. It's the same crowd.

Libertarianism is a movement that claims to be about liberty, but is realy about maintianing the status quo for privileged white males.

GamerGate is a disingenuous movement that claims to be about journalistic ethics, but is realy about maintianing the status quo for privileged white males.

It's the same movement, different excuse.

[–]f3yleaf 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I obviously disagree with your entire premise regarding GG. I do agree there are too few women in game development and gaming, modern computer programming was invented by a woman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper, anti-intellectualism has hit girls harder then boys in this regard, its only recently become "cool" to be a nerd and that culture of stupid is mostly dying.

And no, there is not a plague of misogyni in gaming http://www.pewinternet.org/2014/10/22/online-harassment/ there are some problems, but social media is alot worse then gaming. Not calling for apathy or anything, its just a dishonest narrative especially if used to attack a group of people(and that DOES actually scare women away from gaming and development)

[–]LRonPaul2012 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I do agree there are too few women in game development and gaming, modern computer programming was invented by a woman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper, anti-intellectualism has hit girls harder then boys in this regard, its only recently become "cool" to be a nerd and that culture of stupid is mostly dying.

Yeah, I'm sure the constant sexual harassment they face within the industry has absolutely nothing to do with it.

And no, there is not a plague of misogyni in gaming

Your survey says the opposite. Women are significantly higher in the categories of "stalked" (26% vs. 7%) and "sexually harassed" (25% vs. 13%), and slightly higher in "sustained harassment."

Men are slightly higher in other categories, like "called offensive names" and "physically threatened." Generally, a person who actually stalks you online is going to be a lot scarier than a random nobody who calls you a mean name. A threat of violence minus stalking is essentially an empty threat.

Also from your survey: "Respondents were asked whether they thought a series of online platforms were more welcoming toward men, more welcoming toward women, or equally welcoming to both sexes. While most online environments were viewed as equally welcoming to both genders, the starkest results were for online gaming. Some 44% of respondents felt the platform was more welcoming toward men."

[–]f3yleaf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guys are more likely to be physically threatened or called offensive names, women are more likely to be sexually harassed or stalked, sustained online harassment about equal. Perception polls are not really useful, im pretty sure the perception of how welcoming online gaming is to women is alot less now then before GamerGate, yet nothing has changed.

[–]LRonPaul2012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

<-Best analysis I have seen if you care

I started writing out a point by point refutation, but why don't you simply tell me what you think the single strongest argument in this article is, and I can focus on that?

Because I'm halfway through the article, and the author still hasn't gotten to anything close to resembling a coherent point.

[–]TheShadowCat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That piece just seemed incredibly long winded. I had to stop because it just seemed to be the same thing repeated over and over again.

Not to mention, he kind of went down the same low road that he is complaining about (maybe not to the same extreme).

[–]LRonPaul2012 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention, he kind of went down the same low road that he is complaining about (maybe not to the same extreme).

False equivalence. Why don't you point to the single worst thing he does in the article?

Or let me just ask you: Was anyone scared into silence as a result of what Kluwe said? Not "mocked" or "insulted," but legitimately scared of getting hurt if they publicly disagreed with him?

Because if your answer is "no," then there's absolutely no comparison.

[–]MotownMurder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I don't know, it's not really that much of an argument. He's basically just yelling at them. I mean, that has its place and all, but it's probably not going to convince anyone of anything. I haven't even been involved with this whole gamergate business, and I found myself sympathizing with them sort of just because this guy came off as a serious asshole.

[–]LRonPaul2012 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I haven't even been involved with this whole gamergate business, and I found myself sympathizing with them sort of just because this guy came off as a serious asshole.

So you're going to side with people who engage in literal terrorism (i.e., threatening to shoot up a school because they invited a feminist to speak on campus) because someone told them they were being dicks?

[–]MotownMurder -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Can we please not start with that nonsense? If we don't want to blame all Muslims, for example, for high profile acts of terrorism (and we shouldn't), then the same principle ought to apply here.

[–]LRonPaul2012 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (11子コメント)

If we don't want to blame all Muslims

False equivalence.

Who are the "Muslims" in your analogy? The gamers? Because Chris Kluwe and every target of GamerGate are heavy hardcore gamers themselves.

Chris Kluwe isn't attacking gamers in general, he's attacking a specific subgroup of gamers who choose to act like terrorists.

This isn't like blaming all Muslims for 9/11. It's more like blaming Al Qaeda for 9/11.

[–]MotownMurder -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It's still implying that everyone that supports the GamerGate movement is involved in acts of terrorism. I'm pretty certain that not everyone that complains about Zoe Quinn has went and threatened to shoot up a school or anything like that.

[–]LRonPaul2012 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm pretty certain that not everyone that complains about Zoe Quinn

Why are they complaining about Zoe Quinn in the first place? I'm not saying she's an angel by any means, but who is? Why get worked up over this particular person?

Basically, you're point is that Chris Kluwe is mean to the members of GamerGate who only support mild levels of completely unnecessary harassment for the sake of bashing women. That's so much better!

http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2014/10/15/the-perfect-crime/

[–]MotownMurder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Look, to actually respond to your point would lead to just talking about the virtues or lack thereof of the GamerGate movement. That's not what I was trying to talk about.

All I'm trying to say is that the guy that wrote the article is coming off to me personally as a lot more of an asshole than the people actually involved with the movement, and that writing an article like that isn't exactly "eviscerating" them and their points so much as just slinging insults.

[–]LRonPaul2012 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All I'm trying to say is that the guy that wrote the article is coming off to me personally as a lot more of an asshole than the people actually involved with the movement

Because complaining about death threats is worse than actually making them, apparently.

Your defense of GamerGate boils down to "Not all Al Qaeda members participated in 9/11."

The goal of GamerGate is to silence anyone who doesn't conform to their stereotype through intimidation. That's a very bad thing, and that's something that all of them have in common.

[–]MotownMurder 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your defense of GamerGate boils down to "Not all Al Qaeda members participated in 9/11."

Yeah man, you got it...

[–]f3yleaf 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Who?

[–]MotownMurder 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

She's the person who started this whole thing by having sex with a gaming journalist, which many interpreted as giving him a bias to promote her game.

[–]LRonPaul2012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's the person who started this whole thing by having sex with a gaming journalist, which many interpreted as giving him a bias to promote her game.

Arnold Schwarzenegger married a journalist. This literally makes him the worst person in the world.

[–]LRonPaul2012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm pretty certain that not everyone that complains about Zoe Quinn has went and threatened to shoot up a school or anything like that.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why Zoe Quinn deserves to be the subject of any level of scandal right now, other than the fact that she's a girl who used her girl parts in a way that a sociopath didn't approve of.

You could have tried to defend GamerGate by pointing to a legitimate issue. Instead, you tried to legitimatize the vilification of Zoe Quinn because the death threats are only a small part of that.

Like seriously, WTF? The fact that you would even suggest that this is a legitimate defense of GamerGate is a clear example of why GamerGate deserves every bit of criticism that's been heaped on them.

[–]MotownMurder 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I ain't even gonna explain it, man. This whole thing's getting out of hand as it is. Take that as me not being able to defend them or whatever if you want, but I don't want to make this any more of a huge thing.

[–]LRonPaul2012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I ain't even gonna explain it, man. This whole thing's getting out of hand as it is. Take that as me not being able to defend them or whatever if you want, but I don't want to make this any more of a huge thing.

You're the one who brought it up as proof that GamerGate aren't terrorists.

[–]AureusNex -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because he's so impartial in this

[–]LRonPaul2012 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that was a steaming pile of garbage.

[–]StoicSophist -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What in the world was this intended to prove? Other than the fact that someone has waaaaay to much time on their hands.

[–]LRonPaul2012 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What in the world was this intended to prove?

That's it's harder for people to refute your argument point by point if you put it in graphic form to prevent copy & paste.

[–]c4a 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Partiality changes facts?