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If you're immediately dismissing any spiritual discussions, you're part of the programmed problem. (self.conspiracy)

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[–]Doctor_Brain-Wave 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (53子コメント)

Religion and spirituality are two separate things. Religion is a tool (and weapon) used to control people. Spirituality is what you're looking for and before you can truly find the path to the truth, you need to reject all of humanity's religions and associated dogma.

[–]redditeditard[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (41子コメント)

I hate this argument. There are many paths to the same Truth. Dismissing dogma, rather than researching its history or potential encryption, is a mistake. Or rather, contempt prior to investigation? Wisdom comes from experience. Don't dismiss the experience of those who came before you and lived under different conditions.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Have you researched the history of the Vatican and RCC? The Knights Templar? It isn't a good one.

I agree with you that there has been an active campaign to destroy religion, spirituality, and morality in modern times but if you tell yourself that organized religion hasn't been used as a tool of oppression and control for thousands of years then you're just lying to yourself.

There is a reason for this.

[–]I-Make-My-Luck 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (8子コメント)

op knows that religion has been used as a tool to control others, he is asking us to forget about that part of it and use the inherent truths in spiritual texts such as the bible to see past the negativity associated with it and empower ourselves, overcome fear, live in the moment etc...

we all know the elite have used any means they can to control us, but they does not mean there isn't benefit in the correctly interpreted teachings of Jesus

i applaud your intention and effort here OP

[–]raymondgaf [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

good comment. also, if we focus so much on what was, and how it was so awful, are we not doomed to the same? if we draw so much energy and attention to what we do not want, will we ever get what we truly do want? my perception is no.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I was referring to OP's reference to "researching the history" and also to the fact that nowhere in the OP was it stated that organized religion has been used as a tool of control for thousands of years.

I agree with you completely that there are truths and value to be gleaned from all religions.

[–]peaceisreason 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

nowhere in the OP was it stated that organized religion has been used as a tool of control for thousands of years

Culture in general has been used as a tool of control for thousands of years. The very allegory of material existence is itself a tool of control. it goes without saying. Dismissing books like the bible because of the Catholic bureaucracy is a mistake. Even if the bible itself has been completely misrepresented with intent, one can read it with that in mind.

Specifically the words attributed to Jesus are completely misrepresented by those who wish to use them as a tool of control and those that attack those that use them as a tool of control. Forget the both of them.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree with this also. I don't think anything I said implies that there is no truth to be found in the Bible or religions in general and, if I did imply that, that wasn't my intention.

I just think that one should take into account things like the council of Nicaea and the obvious globalist agenda of the Vatican/Jesuits when discussing religion (and Christianity, in general, which seems to be the main focus of this thread).

It is ironic how unChristian the Vatican is.

[–]Mahat [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

All that goes without saying. Tools of control are known about by most humans by now. It's moot to mention these points every time a topic warrants it.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

How can you have a true discussion about Christianity without acknowledging any the history of the church/corporation that speaks in its name? That seems shortsighted. Also, I think you're incorrect about "most humans" being aware of the extent of the control that exists and has existed for thousands of years. Many are not, and this includes a lot of those who identify as religious as well as many on this sub.

I think a lot of Christians would be surprised if they read about the actions throughout the centuries of the Vatican, the Knights Templar, the Society of Jesus, etc.

[–]thetallgiant -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What the fuck is going on in this thread?

[–]peaceisreason 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some encouragement for self introspection. Don't be alarmed.

[–]AqUa5h0t 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Religion has been used as a weapon. He is not arguing that nor do I believe anyone on this thread will deny that much. This however does not mean that god ceases to exist or that god is dead.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This however does not mean that god ceases to exist or that god is dead.

I neither said nor implied either of those things, nor do I believe either to be true.

[–]AqUa5h0t [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Im glad we understand each other :)

[–]G_Wash1776 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The three great cities: one controls the money, one controls the military, and one controls the religion, the complete unholy trinity.

This might be a little off topic but does anyone else feel that the Roman Empire never fell, but instead was branched into different governments/entities around the world. This would ensure that the goals that Rome wished to achieve; these three cities being an example of the continued Roman Empire and how it has progressed throughout the world, continuing its never ending quest for more power.

Or it fell, and there's a new Roman Empire that was created after it, involving multiple countries/entities.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hmm, where have I seen an Eagle used as a symbol before?

[–]G_Wash1776 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean just look at the architecture of the Capitol Building in D.C.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yep, it's actually pretty overt to anyone who cares to notice.

[–]G_Wash1776 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even our system of government is so relatable to the Romans it's absolutely insane.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Only the names have changed, it's still many of the same aristocratic European bloodlines running the show today that were in power 2000 years ago. We've all been lied to on a scale so impossibly massive that most people can't even wrap their heads around it.

[–]oelsen [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

You fell into the progress trap. Reflect now about what could happen if e.g. John Michael Greer is right. Would another you 500 years in the future think and feel the same? Or had you felt the same 1352 in Strasbourg?

I have the same feeling. Sometimes I ponder about which country is the Eastern Rome. Indonesia, b/c they have a Latin alphabet and are constructing their Nationality right now? Or India, as it was a part the Empire. Who will be the hordes? Who the Vandals? Moscow sees itself as the true cultural and functional follower of Byzantium.

Only one thing is clear, we absolutely know what and where the Senate is. It even has the same name...

[–]zeasDJ -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No they haven't because it contradicts what OP wants to believe

[–]I-Make-My-Luck 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you are misunderstanding op's point here

[–]DwarvenPirate 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a foolish statement. One is just hamstringing himself to reject any idea of community or shared wisdom, theology, or philosophy.

[–]DeepHistory 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a major in comparative religion, so my rejection of religion is hardly knee-jerk. I've studied religions large and small in great detail. Major religions were largely shaped by political forces looking to use them for control. That is a historical fact. Look up the Council of Nicea. The "holy" books of the three major western religions condone rape, murder, incest, genocide, slavery, the persecution of homosexuals, and the oppression of women in the name of their god. Eastern religions have their problems too, but I won't go into that at the moment as it isn't as relevant for most people reading this.

Having said all of that, I am not closed to the possibility of a spiritual aspect of reality. I simply know from extensive research than any true spirituality which may have once existed in the world's major religions has been mostly buried by forces that most certainly do not desire liberation for the human condition.

[–]TwoInPinkOneInStink 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

contempt prior to investigation

I've only ever heard that in one place. Have you read Bill W's book?

[–]raymondgaf [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

is the Religion vs Spirituality argument simply a issue of definitions? my communications teacher in college always said, "words dont mean, people mean." after i, myself, went through soul coaching, i finally began to understand the idea of "God" and that it's not a single definition, but an interchangeable word for everything, the universe, the source, etc. there are so many people that get caught up in what OUR (human's) definition of a word is.

[–]TrollsRLifeless 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

It's not really the same truth though, now is it?

Jesus teaches you to put yourself below god, to always serve him. You're only allowed to be a tiny fraction of him, or in his image.

Buddha teaches you that you are also a god, and to not put yourself below or above anything else.

How is that the same truth?

[–]I-Make-My-Luck 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

incorrect, jesus taught that we all have the power of God in us , and through our devotion to resisting carnal desires, we gain spiritual power which gives us wisdom knowledge higher understanding. buddha essentially said the same thing, i dont care how enlightened you are, you are not GOD and you do not have all his power,,you are created in the image ..in the likeness ..so yes in essence you are a God on earth, but not the same as God in the universe.

this is the point OP is making, people are misunderstanding the true teachings of christ, because throughout history govts and elite have twisted it in to a fear based religion, when it was intended to be a way of freedom

[–]BloodWillow 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dont care how enlightened you are, you are not GOD and you do not have all his power,,you are created in the image ..in the likeness ..so yes in essence you are a God on earth, but not the same as God in the universe.

Here is my interpretation of what God is, and how we play a role. God is the all-inclusive infinite. We are not only a piece of that infinite, it is impossible to separate us from it. This idea that we are somehow removed from the infinite has clouded our minds and judgement to forget all is of the same source.

This is where the idea of freedom, freewill, and individualism comes into play. In the scope of an infinite view there are seemingly two opposing forces, creation and destruction. Or existence and non-existence. Existence (creation) seeks expansion of all possibilities through the means of individual points, or identities. Non-existence (destruction) seeks to collapse individual points down to a singularity.

It's the old battle of 'good vs. evil'.

[–]I-Make-My-Luck 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i never said we are seperate from him ...of course we are litearally living in the energy of god...however we are not equal to his power ..we have forgotten the godly power he has given us

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What if God is the universe?

[–]I-Make-My-Luck 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

just like we are the universe to our cells in our body..i understand and agree with your viewpoint ..we are a part of god a piece of it...a hologram...i am just saying we are not equal to him

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. I agree that it is more or less undeniable that there is "something more", an infinite intelligence/infinite energy, that pervades everything.

[–]oelsen [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Then we are idolizing ourselves, as we are part of the universe. Oops.

[–]BloodWillow 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jesus teaches us of the infinite with the emphasis on the external sturcture.

Buddha teaches us about the infinite with the emphasis on the internal structure.

Same message, there is an infinite, different focus. Although both of these messengers of the infinite talked of internal and external realities, history has pigeonholed their revelations.

[–]Mahat [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Jesus: do unto others

Buddha: life is suffering

[–]digdog303 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

When does the buddha ever say that everyone is a god? Humility is a huge part of buddhism and there are offerings made and prostrations going on all the time across pretty much every lineage except the silly dharma bum crap we get in america.

[–]Mahat [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Divine spark.

[–]boxingnun 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Might I ask why you think dogma is necessary or not-separate from spirituality?

I personally think that while wisdom can be found in dogma (for those who can remove themselves from bias) it is not essential to spiritual development and/or growth. Besides, it is not about the destination ("Truth") it is about the journey. Dogma has little to do with the journey from my perspective.

[–]localjargon -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

try stepping away from the incessant need to know & move into the space of being present NOW. Because when SHTF, it's not going to be helpful to have stockpiled food, weapons or information; it's going to be about trusting your core instinct, knowing your soul and fearing not your own fate.

VS

Dismissing dogma, rather than researching its history or potential encryption, is a mistake. Or rather, contempt prior to investigation? Wisdom comes from experience. Don't dismiss the experience of those who came before you and lived under different conditions.

[–]JUSTIN_HERGINA 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I came here to say this too. Have an upvote.

[–]Doctor_Brain-Wave 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thanks! =-D

I was just having this conversation with a friend last night. He couldn't disconnect religion from spirituality and I had to change the subject because he's clearly not ready.

[–]muffalettadiver 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it not all semantics and that point anyway?

[–]no1113 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ou need to reject all of humanity's religions and associated dogma.

Don't so much "reject" them. Instead, simply realize that they are only a part of the tapestry of cosmic spirituality. It's like rejecting a tree because it is not the forest. Doesn't make sense.

Don't reject the tree - just realize that it is by no means the entire forest. Look at it as what it is - part of a bigger, MUCH bigger, picture.

[–]larry_b [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I disagree. Religions must be rejected actively because they disseminate false information, are intrinsically violent and take advantage of everybody, especially the poor and the most vulnerable. They are against the advancement of proper knowledge and scientific discoveries, at least partly because all discoveries go against the stupid teachings from their stupid books and help debunks all the myths in which their whole structure is set up.

[–]mikevember [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Reject the tree because it is false, it was created and spread as a representation of the forest but is someone else's interpretation. Religion is a joke, and spirituality is our way to recognize the fakes.

[–]peaceisreason 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know who else said that? Jesus and Buddha. And you can read about it without proclaiming adherence to a bureaucratic religion created around them. While religion may be a weapon, it's one armed by the consumer.

[–]AqUa5h0t 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You cannot be spiritual without being religious or vise virsa. That being said they are one and the same. Yes religion has been used as a weapon but that does not diminish the truth thereof. It does not mean that god doesn't exist just because the world is corrupt.

[–]estesbrentruss 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree entirely!

I would expound further and say that religion (from 'ligare' meaning to tie or bind, and 're' meaning again) is the antithesis of spirituality. Spirituality is a journey of self-discovery more than anything, finding freedom from dogma and a discovery of the truth no matter how strange it might seem. Spirituality is discovering one's own purpose through exploration, reflection, and contemplation. Religion is adopting a prefabricated belief system.

Religion was engineered for conformity, indoctrination, control, group-think, etc... These are very much opposed to any sense of individuality, which spirituality is all about in my opinion.

[–]The-Internets 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is nothing wrong with religion.

Religion has kept most of the knowledge producing what you enjoy today safe regardless of historical atrocities which seem to state otherwise. The proof is literally in/on the physical objects religion deems sacred.

You need to reject humanities misconceptions and ignorance of everything to find the path to truth.

[–]effinmike12 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Religion is a tool (and weapon) used to control people.

That sounds matter of fact. Familiar with Jainism? Not that I subscribe to Jainism, but I would like to see you point to how that religion is a weapon (given the negative innuendo). Your statement above is something comparable to a bit in a horses mouth. It is, in fact, sensationalism. Sensationalism is often used to manipulate aka control. Just like a bit, you steer the reader to your point of view using their emotional bias against them. That said, I have a soft spot for Christopher Hitchens.

Religion, in the Christian sense, is a system of beliefs (systematic theology). Belief is synonymous with doctrine according to Millard J Erickson, Karl Barth, Charles Swindol, and practically everyone else that is studied in Protestant seminaries.

Google definition-

re·li·gion

the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. "ideas about the relationship between science and religion" synonyms: faith, belief, worship, creed

...you need to reject all of humanity's religions and associated dogma

Thank you for telling everyone what they need to do, but this is a silly thing to say. For one, "humanity's religions" will always apply to all theist systems except for the one that each particular person participates in. Obviously, they can't ALL be correct, but that is not a personal dilemma. It is rather a collective dilemma. Secondly, dogma is primarily a term used in Catholicism. Most protestants use the word doctrine. This allows people that do believe in "humanity's religions" to dismiss you as ignorant. Personally, I am ok with you using dogma here, but it is really a poor term to use in light of the theistic paradigm.

Religion and spirituality are two separate things.

Of course they are, but they always go together. Always. Discipleship is at the core of all major religions. To dismiss it, is to tell people to never study, listen, et hoc genus omne. It really doesn't make sense to say that spirituality is an exclusive term. It is different than religion, but how can one come to spiritual enlightenment without a set of beliefs (religion)?

I agree with the thrust of what OP says. His questions in the last paragraph are particularly well thought out and proper for self-reflection. Noping your way through the questions serve of zero value.

Most all major religions, and even the occult, have end time prophecies that could be used by tptb with great results using PSYOPS. On that basis alone is it not worth considering what they are all saying, especially in light of the Bohemian Grove Club, transhumanism, singularity, etc?

From the cover of "Exo-Vaticana: Petrus Romanus, Project L.U.C.I.F.E.R., and the Vatican's Astonishing Plan for the Arrival of an Alien Savior"-

Christians will not immediately need to renounce their faith in God "simply on the basis of the reception of [this] new, and unexpected information of a religious character from extraterrestrial civilizations." However, once the "religious content" originating from outside the earth "has been verified" they will have to conduct a "re-reading [of the Gospel] inclusive of the new data..."

  • Vatican Astronomer (connected with Opus Dei), Father Giuseppe Tanzella-Nitti