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[–]Odynol 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (46子コメント)

You conveniently skipped the DDOS part though...that combined with the huge amount of toxicity is MUCH worse than just being really toxic

[–]kaddavr 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Yeah. THere are thousands of player accounts who are banned permanently for ONLY toxicity in game, and those players are never getting their accounts back. So why should someone who was both toxic AND DDoS'ing get his back? Just because he wants to be a pro? That's bullshit.

[–]SuperDong1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who said he has to get his account back ?

[–]WildF 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lifetime banned account doesn`t mean lifetime banned from competitive. For example Apdo's account is banned for ever but he has a 2 years ban from competitive

[–]NerfUrgot [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Incarnation didn´t just get a permabanned account though, he got permabanned from the game, which means that all the new accounts he made were also permabanned as soon as Riot spotted them. They eventually stopped doing it, but his situation is still different.

[–]Sethzyo 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Except of course, no-one's asking for the accounts in which he did those things to be unbanned. Same way if you or me get banned for DDOSing we'll have our accounts banned but nothing stops us from creating new ones and playing in them.

These are two different things. What's being asked is for his ban from competitive play to be lifted, sort of like Apdo.

[–]lee-sinFAN[RIP CLG EU] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You can't even compare Apdo and Incarnation, Apdo got banned because he was boosting accounts and Incarnation got banned because he was toxic and was ddosing people.

[–]Epamynondas -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

they both got lifetime bans and are ladder legends, if you can't compare these two, i don't know who you can compare them to

[–]lee-sinFAN[RIP CLG EU] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No,you are wrong Apdo got a lifetime ban only on his account and a 2 year ban from Kespa, Incartion got multiple accounts banned and a permaban in competitive.

[–]kaddavr 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That isn't the point. For regular players, they're held to a certain standard. If you don't live up to that standard, your account is banned. It's only a technicality that Riot sort-of endorses that you can make more accounts. But for people who use cheats or bots or DDoS, Riot has gone out of their way to permaban those people from the game, tracking down their smurfs and any new accounts they created.

This guy DDoS'd, making him one of the worst LoL offenders ever. If they're going to unban a player among the worst offenders ever, then every account that's banned for ONLY toxicity, a much lesser crime, should be unbanned, too. That's never going to happen, so therefore, this guy should never be unbanned.

If he wants to create a smurf on LAN and hope Riot never finds it to ban, fine, but to give him the ultimate reward for any LoL player, to be in the LCS, after counting him among the worst LoL players ever, is just retarded.

[–]Sethzyo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But for people who use cheats or bots or DDoS, Riot has gone out of their way to permaban those people from the game, tracking down their smurfs and any new accounts they created.

This is nonsense. You have no knowledge as to whether or not they really bother to hunt for these people. It's a very tenuous and hard task to constantly investigate each and every account IP and see if it matches an offender. They really only bothered to ban Incarnation's posterior accounts because of the famous personality he is. If he was a nobody, Riot wouldn't even bother to check.

If they're going to unban a player among the worst offenders ever, then every account that's banned for ONLY toxicity, a much lesser crime, should be unbanned, too. That's never going to happen, so therefore, this guy should never be unbanned.

Then again, this doesn't follow logically at all, in fact the atrocious level of logic you just used here is quite embarrassing and nearly unchallenged in this sub.

They'll unban the player from competitive play while still leaving the accounts with which he did those things permanently banned, which in no way requires that they unban every other toxic account (?).

If he wants to create a smurf on LAN and hope Riot never finds it to ban, fine, but to give him the ultimate reward for any LoL player, to be in the LCS, after counting him among the worst LoL players ever, is just retarded.

The objective of punishment in most civilized countries is to reform the individual. Incarnation's behaviour has improved dramatically. He's been one of the most positive players in terms of behaviour for more than two years straight. The guy was 14/15 when he did those things.

We've all done our lot of stupid shit when we were teenagers and to somehow claim a higher moral standard when this situation pertains to a reality we've all witnessed when we were younger is just intellectually dishonest.

[–]MitsuXLulu [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

doesnt matter We are still forgetting. The only reason people want him is cause Sk's mid Sucked. He was a coach. He cant be anymore. Hes permabanned. We only want him because hes good thats it. But he ddosed and was so toxic. If you want another player to compare to? Xj9 and DarkwinJax.

[–]xgenoriginal 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Apdo dosen't give a fuck he makes so much money from boosting and his 80k for beeing top of chinese servers

[–]MriTzii 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly if incarnation doesn't get unbanned he should start elo boosting

[–]BCXXR [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

You honestly think him and other Challenger players don't currently do it? I'll tell you for a fact they do :)

[–]MriTzii -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly if incarnation doesn't get unbanned he should start elo boosting

[–]CADeleted[CtrlAltDeleted] (EU-W) [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Boosting accounts ruins for more people that a DDoS here and there. 5 people in the opposite team gets their ass handed to them by a guy boosting for someone, while 4 people on their team gets a shitty teammate when the customer plays the account above his level all the way down again. I'd say both things sucks.

[–]smog22 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Now i understand why ppl are against his unban.. ppl think its about his soloQ accounts :/

[–]TerrorToadx [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Everyone's so ignorant it's getting me heated

[–]freeogy -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Because he's famous and talented. Plain and simple. If nobody knew who this guy was, nobody would want him unbanned. There are other personalities in League that haven't been near as much of a problem, but people here would gladly rub their past offenses in their faces. Inc is The Great White Hope, though, and as long as eSports fans continue to get their dicks hard over the thought of him being on their team, we'll see threads like this.

Feels like there's been one every day, begging Riot to lift his ban.

I honestly couldn't care less if he's banned or not, but I wish people would stop this moralistic whining and just be honest. They want him freed because he's a great player. They couldn't give a shit about whether or not he's reformed.

[–]xpowerss [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

If someone isn't famous or talented they wouldn't need to be unbanned from competitive play...

[–]samuraidancer -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

the ddos was never proven....

[–]helloquain -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Riot said it occurred and they are judge, jury and executioner within the realm of League of Legends. Whether or not you believe them, or whether enough proof was provided to make you happy, it doesn’t matter. He can’t play League of Legends because Riot believes he’s a DDoSer… you saying ‘there’s no proof’ does nothing to advance an argument he should be unbanned, because Riot believes they have enough proof. You either need to provide concrete evidence to Riot that he has never DDoS’d or you need to advance a convincing argument that he’s worth unbanning despite it. That’s the base rule of this conversation.

[–]smog22 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

lol there can be only proof that you did something and not that you didnt do it (and we have never seen any real proof of ddos), like prove me that you didnt killed anybody ever.. its impossible and do not make any sense

[–]nephrium 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Player: Nicolaj Jensen / Incarnati0n (Also Veigodx / Wizikx / Wizikodex) Region: Europe

Ruling As a result of this player’s long history of DDOS activity, abusive behaviour and poor sportsmanship across multiple accounts, the player behavior team issued a lifetime ban on Jensen.

But you're right, since we didn't actually see the server logs, it's definitely a conspiracy. SP00KY!!!!!!

[–]Epamynondas -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

yeah no way Riot would consider the fact that the DDoS wasn't really proven before making a decision

[–]kazzte 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Riot never made rushed decisions before right? Lol.

[–]iareziga -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Makes me sad every time comments like this get upvoted. You people literally know nothing about how DDoS works and how to prove it.

[–]lilahking -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (14子コメント)

So the screenshots of the guy saying he ddos'd people and his apologies for ddos'ing aren't proof enough?

[–]Kirazen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the screenshots are from a forum where you can literally change your name to anything you want at anytime, not trying to make a conspiracy theory out of it but there is no way to prove that forum account was actually him.

[–]iareziga -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Please provide those screenshots. Inb4 the one from the post-game lobby where he pretends to have an IP grabber, but you believe it because you have no idea how an IP grabber works.

[–]OverlordLork 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Riot said they have more proof. Please explain what motivation they might have for lying.

[–]iareziga 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, Riot also said many other things that are not true.

[–]OverlordLork [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

I said MOTIVATION. I did not say they were 100% honest in everything they said. It's possible that they might lie about something to further their profits. But they're not gonna just type random lies into an announcement. If you think they're lying, then you should have an explanation for WHY lying in this particular case would help their business.

[–]Odynol -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh shut up, you sound like an angry, angsty teenager. When has Riot been caught lying about this kind of thing? Or anything major for that matter

[–]KickItNext[Rockless Lobster] (NA) -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've said things that are true as well, what's your point?

[–]Drumgor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are either misreading something in Riot's announcement of the ban or know something I don't. Riot never mentions in those two posts, which are usually linked when talking about Incarnati0n, that they have proof of the DDoS attacks. They only say they have more screenshots of him claiming he DDoS-attacked people.

[–]OverlordLork [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Ah, my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

Edit: I still think multiple credible public confessions is sufficient proof in this case, but I do stand corrected about whether they had any harder proof.

[–]Kirazen -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If they had more proof then why not release it

[–]KickItNext[Rockless Lobster] (NA) 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If they show everyone how they determine if someone is DDOSing, that makes it easier for the DDOSers to modify the process so that it can't be detected as easily, which makes DDOSing easier and makes Riot's job of stopping it more difficult. I really doubt any rational person would want to increase the prevalence of DDOSing just for a little bit of extra proof of Incarnati0n's DDOS.

[–]Ryuujinx [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

It's easy to detect a DDoS. "Oh my shits down. Let me run a tcpdump. Oh look, a fuckton of packets are hitting this one port. Well that sucks."

It's pretty much impossible to prove it, especially for a private company and not the government. The closest way to show it was incarnati0n would be logs of the DDoS while he was in the game of the server that was attacked, and that this happens enough times for them to draw a conclusive connection between him and the attacks. And that -still- doesn't prove that he was the cause - it could have just as easily been someone who followed incarnati0n around and performed the attacks.

And that's assuming the attack was on Riot's servers. In the one screenshot I've seen it had an IP of a player, and not Riot. This means that Riot has absolutely no way to prove it - even if the attacks happened, the only thing Riot will see is a disconnect. Given how shitty EUW servers were back at the time, that doesn't really prove much at all, if there's a high amount of disconnects in his games you can raise the question, but again - it could just be some assholes watching his stream or spectating his games.

[–]StacoOrikoro [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

If he claims to DDos people and suddenly the players who he threatened to DDos are having disconnects (which is really easy to see in the match history and chat logs) then you got proof allready.

[–]Odynol -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because they're the only ones who need the proof. We have NO right to view it, Riot doesn't have to give it to us at all