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[–][削除されました]  (34子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]andrewsad1Libertarian [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

    Of course we shouldn't believe you! You're being paid by the libtards to falsify evidence!

    /s

    [–][削除されました]  (15子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (13子コメント)

      Well, for the most fundamental proof, I would point you to the absorption spectrum of CO2, the emission spectrum of the sun, and the overlap of the two in the infrared region of the electromagnetic spectrum. That overlap is responsible for trapping heat energy from the sun for a longer period of time than it would if the CO2 were not there. Methane is another significant contributor, which also has some significant human sources.

      For a more comprehensive report I would recommend this publication written by the US National Academy of Sciences together with the British Royal Society.

      [–]UmbrellaResearchCorp [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

      [–]pseudonym42 [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

      Which part of that paper seems relevant to you? It seems like apples and oranges to me.

      [–]UmbrellaResearchCorp [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      Two competing mechanisms for the warming and cooling of the Earth's atmosphere. The USNAS/BRS paper essentially only focuses on CO2 and other "greenhouse gas" concentrations -- while totally ignoring heat dissipation mechanisms. It's full of stats that primarily focus on CO2:Global Temps, and attach a 1:1 ratio for that. No allowance for prehistorical data. They ALWAYS want to focus on global temps from the 1800s, which would be and should be laughed out of any scholarly discussion involving any natural cycle on Earth. 200 years isn't even a fart in a Hurricane when looking at the geologic time scale.

      It, like every other 'study' I've seen only focuses on one or two mechanisms for 'global warming'. Conspicuously ignoring solar influence, for one. And, like EVERY other study purports that mankind increasing CO2 for the last 200 years is going to influence climate change. It's understandable, it SEEMS intuitive, but often times scientific concepts are very much UNINTUITIVE. I'm a Geologist by education and training, and I can't even count how many times things that SEEM to be fitting data trends towards one conclusion turn out to be completely and utterly false when a new piece of data is discovered.

      And that's what I find so disgusting about this 'climate debate'. It's not "science". It's a bunch of ideologues masquerading as "scientists" with cherry-picked data, and even in some cases FALSIFYING data --because the current political climate trends a certain way and that's where the funding is. No major scientific field in history has ever operated in this manner and had results that bore fruit. NONE. Not chemistry (which was derived from earlier 'alchemy'). Not physics. Not Geology. Not Cartography. Nothing. And yet, as a scientist, I'm supposed to sit here and NOT question data that's coming from a poisoned well? Yeah bullshit.

      "Climate change" is a political agenda. NOT science. Any "scientist" that says otherwise is likely selling something.

      [–]BananafishGlass [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      "Most of these scientists don't agree with this one guy so I am going to go ahead and call bullshit." - you, not knowing anything.

      [–]pipechapLibertarian Conservative [非表示スコア]  (8子コメント)

      Have you ever actually looked at the skeptics data? Or are you just doing what I think you're doing, which is assuming you know it's wrong, haven't even bothered to consider the counterargument?

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (7子コメント)

      I guess I haven't seen all of it, but I have examined many counterarguments and found them to be flawed.

      If you have a specific one in mind, I could look at it and tell you what I think.

      [–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist [非表示スコア]  (6子コメント)

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

      Ok well let's take the first one Freeman Dyson. For one thing he doesn't even say that global warming is necessarily not real. In fact he acknowledges the simple warming mechanism I mentioned earlier does indeed exist and contribute to global warming. His argument is that the models being used do not fully represent the enormous complexity of the real world. That is very true, they do not. But, to perfectly represent the complexity of the real world would require a computer capable of keeping track of every subatomic particle, quantum of energy, and photon in the world, which would require a computer that is as big as or bigger than the actual world.

      So I would say that he isn't even arguing against global warming, he is saying the models are not perfect. But the thing is, for a system as big as the earth and with as many pieces as the earth, it can never be perfect.

      [–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

      to perfectly represent the complexity of the real world would require a computer capable of keeping track of every subatomic particle, quantum of energy, and photon in the world

      That's a bit of hyperbole. You could make that same statement about fluid dynamics modeling used to simulate flight testing. But in actuality, the modeling of flight is actually quite good without this level of detail. The modeling of the climate is not at the same level as other fields, yet we are supposed to make multi-trillion dollar decisions effecting our economy based on it? I think what you will see from the skeptical scientists is not that CO2 does not cause warming, but that the effects are overstated and the danger exaggerated. You see it doesn't help the left if it takes hundreds of years to become a danger. They need an apocalypse now in order to get at that trillions in wealth to transfer.

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

      On the other hand, we are still paying trillions from the last Iraq war and about to get into a new Iraq war that, in all honesty, has to do with oil. Both our economy and our military are dependent on it, which makes it a weakness for us that frequently gets us in to trouble. And I'd say that whole scenario is like the actual apocalypse now. It's not going to happen in ten or twenty years, but eventual there will be coast-flooding sea level rises if we don't do something about it now. And that really will be bad for people and for the economy.

      [–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

      Other than the exaggeration about the cost ($1.7 T would not be plural and ongoing), I agree that having our economy tied to the availability of oil is a definite strategic weakness and energy independence along with marginalizing the importance of that violent region would be a great way to get out of some of those conflicts (the real geopolitical situation is a little too complex to reduce to "blood for oil" bumper sticker slogans). However, energy independence is not what the AGW Alarmists are advocating, are they? Energy independence could be achieved in a matter of years by transitioning fleet vehicles to nat gas, using coal-to-liquid and domestic oil for autos and air transport, and using nuclear to make up the difference on the grid. But those aren't the solutions they want. Even though the use of natural gas has lowered actual emissions more than any other "green" initiative, and nuclear is a zero-emissions energy source that could actually replace other sources at a comparable price. It's when you get to the "so what" that the true nature of the AGW political scam comes out. Problem is so apocalyptic that we need massive economically crippling change now. But can't use real, available technologies. Must pump money into cottage industries of our Democrat fundraiser friends that will be much more costly and take decades to replace fossil fuels.

      [–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      What gets my skepticism is the outlandish predictions thrown around by leftist pseudo intellectuals and political operatives and dutifully regurgitated ad nauseum in the press with a healthy dose of apocalyptic rhetoric: Snowfalls are now a thing of the past, complete melting of the Arctic sea ice, more hurricanes, droughts, floods, famine, pestilence, plagues, frogs, etc. And when it comes to solutions, why is nuclear always off the table? No we have to only fund exorbitantly priced and less viable solar and wind, (preferably failing companies owned by Democrat fundraisers). If the scientists in this field wanted to be taken more seriously, they should divorce themselves of these political charlatans.

      [–]BananafishGlass [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      I don't think it's a matter of politics to fund these companies, I think it's more for international stability. If we start developing more nuclear power, the rest of the world will assume it's for bombs (as we always do to the rest of the world when they strive for nuclear power) and it would most likely create an arms race.

      I'm not saying it's okay. But not everything is a big bad shadowy liberal scheme.

      [–]super_ag [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      Here's the problem I have with the whole Global Climate Change movement. I do not deny the science for the most part. Although the East Anglia e-mails are still a bit troublesome. I'm willing to accept that the globe is getting warmer and anthropomorphic carbon emissions are contributing to it. What I'm skeptical about is the doom and gloom forecasts being made about the change in climate and the fixes (if they can be called that) proposed by the Left to curtail the heating of the Earth.

      First, let's start with the panic-inducing tone of the media today. Does this type of rhetoric sound familiar?:

      There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend **a drastic decline in food production(( – with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now.

      The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it.

      Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars’ worth of damage in 13 U.S. states. To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather.

      Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the trend, as well as over its specific impact on local weather conditions. But they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the rest of the century. If the climatic change is as profound as some of the pessimists fear, the resulting famines could be catastrophic. “A major climatic change would force economic and social adjustments on a worldwide scale,” warns a recent report by the National Academy of Sciences, “because the global patterns of food production and population that have evolved are implicitly dependent on the climate of the present century.”

      Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. But the scientists see few signs that government leaders anywhere are even prepared to take the simple measures of stockpiling food or of introducing the variables of climatic uncertainty into economic projections of future food supplies. The longer the planners delay, the more difficult will they find it to cope with climatic change once the results become grim reality.

      Now, you probably recognize this as from the infamous Newsweek article warning about Global Cooling. Sure, this has been debunked and the author simply lied that meteorologists are "in almost unanimous in the view" that Global Cooling is going to be catastrophic. These same cataclysmic prophecies are being made now about the complete opposite phenomena. It's no wonder there is a lot of mistrust about Global Warming when such conflicting stories are being fed to us by the media in such a short time. Sure, it never got accepted fact by the scientific community, but the same media people crying "The Earth is Cooling" are saying "The Earth is Warming" now. It all sounds a little like Chicken Little.

      And then there are the solutions proposed. They all involve more governmental regulations and stricter regulations on developed countries while letting underdeveloped countries continue pumping CO2 into the atmosphere unimpeded. 24.65% of all manmade CO2 emissions come from China alone. Admittedly, the US is #2 at 16.16%. But proposals like the Kyoto Protocol made exemptions for 80% of the world (including China and India) while putting economically damaging restrictions on the US and European Union. It amounted to a global wealth redistribution program.

      Domestically the solution seems to be carbon taxes (more wealth redistribution) and government subsidies for economically unfeasible renewable energy sources like wind and solar (though which big companies like GE make a huge windfall). I'm all for developing clean, effective and efficient energy. But the technology to produce them just doesn't exist yet. Wind and solar are still a long way off of meeting the power needs of the US. There is however a clean and efficient power source that we currently have the technology to develop, but the Left refuses to support it: Nuclear power. I honestly don't take anyone who wants to get us off of fossil fuels seriously if they're not willing to consider expanding our nuclear power capability. Ironically, the Left thinks it's perfectly okay for Iran to develop a nuclear program but stonewalls the development of any new nuclear power plants in our own country. That tells me that the Left is more concerned with imposing regulations on business and wealth transfers than they are about actually decreasing the carbon footprint of the US. They're merely using the Global Warming panic that they stoked in order to push their political agenda.

      [–]Kid-Quantum[S] [非表示スコア]  (8子コメント)

      Not to knock your credentials but quantum mechanics makes you another layman who is being duped. Do your own research. I've been doing it for five years now and the obvious and only scientific conclusion is that temperature has not risen out of the noise level when you look at long term trends.

      You should also know that when models fail they should be rejected.

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (7子コメント)

      So what, in your opinion, happens to extra heat trapped by CO2?

      [–]Kid-Quantum[S] [非表示スコア]  (6子コメント)

      It's there but it's miniscule.

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

      Well you have to add those bars together to get the total warming effect. It doesn't matter if it is miniscule, if heat in > heat out, by even a tiny amount, then the planet will warm over time. Even knowing those miniscule predictions, coastal flooding is expected within a century. Additionally there are feedback loops, like tundra melting releases more CO2, ice melting decreases the amount of visible light reflect back into space, and visible light is also responsible for warming.

      [–]Kid-Quantum[S] [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

      I'm not adding bars together and neither should you. Start from pre-industrial until now.

      Coastal flooding is inevitable. Sea levels have and will continue to rise since the last ice age.

      Feedback loops! The last bastion of the alarmists! Any examples in the history of the world?

      [–]voddo01 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      Have you read this paper published in 2012? http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v484/n7392/abs/nature10915.html

      I'm just confused by your point against feedback loops. It is well documented that there are both positive and negative feedback loops for tons of things in the natural world. Heck, our bodies use feedback loops all the time and they are fascinating!

      [–]Dixzon [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

      [–]Kid-Quantum[S] [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      Wow. A crater? Two? Please.

      Even a hundred is meaningless.