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Can I "not attracted?" (self.SRSDiscussion)

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[–]BrienneFlakes 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (32子コメント)

I don't think you can control who you're attracted to. You can control how you express that and whether you allow certain "minor" things to decide who you do and don't like, etc, but I think base attraction is out of our control.

That said, if your base attraction is "I'm not attracted to any PoC, ever" I think a) you need to be open to recognizing the root cause of that outside of yourself (from society and media etc), b) acknowledge that even if it's out of your "control" it's problematic and not a benign thing that should be violently defended as perfectly okay, and c) open to working on digging deeper into WHY, and fixing it if possible.

I'm not an expert on this subject by any means and I'd like to hear other perspectives, but for me I definitely feel it can be both subconscious/uncontrollable and problematic, like so many of the systemic problems in our society, and acknowledging that it's not okay is step one to fixing it.

I also don't think there's some enlightened state we're all searching for where everyone is attracted to everyone else either. Preferences aren't bad by nature, I just think our (both subconscious and realized) prejudices can really show themselves when it comes to that.

[–]turntandburnt [非表示スコア]  (31子コメント)

That said, if your base attraction is "I'm not attracted to any PoC, ever" I think a) you need to be open to recognizing the root cause of that outside of yourself (from society and media etc), b) acknowledge that even if it's out of your "control" it's problematic

Is it problematic that I consider skin color to be a major part of attraction for me? If I'm not attracted to dark skin, is that inherently racist?

[–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (29子コメント)

If I'm not attracted to dark skin, is that inherently racist?

Yes. In reality, a person expressing that thought is going to inevitably be racist.

I really dislike white skin, does that make me racist?

About as racist as calling someone a cracker.

[–]locriology [非表示スコア]  (13子コメント)

Different races have different physical attributes. It's not racist to be attracted to certain attributes and not others on a superficial level.

[–]BrienneFlakes [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

It's probably not racist to prefer physical attributes that tend to appear more commonly in Caucasians, or black people, or asians, or Hispanics, etc.

It's probably racist if you flat out eliminate any possible attraction to an entire race of people.

It's like saying you'd never date someone with brown eyes (minus, y'know, everything else that comes with race, but bear with me).

If you say you prefer blue eyes, people with brown eyes might feel a little slighted but it's reasonable.

If you say you would absolutely never date a person with brown eyes, even if on every other interpersonal level they're everything you want in a SO, it wouldn't be unreasonable for people to question whether or not you have a prejudice toward people with brown eyes that goes deeper than aesthetics.

You might not. But the question would need to be asked.

Just like someone who 99% of the time isn't attracted to POC just might prefer Caucasian features ... but the question "Is there more to it?" should still be asked.

Because when we consider everything we know about biology and sociology, when we consider that we KNOW tangibly the impact the media's influence on what we find attractive, most times a lot of times in our society there IS more to it.

Whether the person in question knows it or not.

[–]turntandburnt [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

I know why I don't like light skin. I was raised in a culture where light skin was very rare. I'm also shallow when it comes to lovers and attractiveness plays a large part.

You might not. But the question would need to be asked.

considers the possibility that I'm not racist while

About as racist as calling someone a cracker.

is definitely calling me out.

[–]nomoarlurkin [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

I know why I don't like light skin. I was raised in a culture where light skin was very rare.

Well I don't think that can entirely explain it. I was raised among 98% white people but on average I find men with other skin tones more attractive. It's really common to have an interest ( or even fetish ) for a trait that's rare during early socialization.

I think I have a problem with some of the things you've said and not others. Saying "I could never date a [x] girl" is a problem. Saying "I prefer skin colors x, y, and z, maybe because I grew up with them" is fine. It allows the possibility that you could have a preference that is overruled by other things. It's unlikely to happen, but it at least lets you treat people like humans instead of just skin colors.

[–]bilnit[S] [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Saying "I could never date a [x] girl" is a problem.

This turns on some light bulbs for me. Thank you.

[–]ellouelle [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

is definitely calling me out.

i don't think it was, as calling someone a cracker isn't racist.

[–]locriology [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

Yep this is a pretty reasonable position to take. I'm not talking about stubborn refusal to date someone without certain qualities, I'm just talking about gravitating towards a certain type of person just due to inherent attraction.

[–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (6子コメント)

Says the dude with fatlogic and justiceporn in their comment history, with gems like this:

My first wife was tarded.

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]ThePerdmeister [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

    The user's argument, I'm sure, is the same argument repeated x times throughout this bloody thread.

    That is: you're not a bad person for being attracted to whatever you're attracted to, but 1) you need to realize beauty is heavily racialized (and has been for a very long time), 2) if, say, white skin is overwhelmingly considered more beautiful than dark skin, you should question this phenomenon, and 3) if, for example, you believe white skin is more beautiful than dark skin, you should try to examine the ways in which your aesthetic ideals were shaped.

    To repeat a sentiment I've seen about twenty times in this thread: you aren't a bad person for holding the preferences you do, even if those preferences are informed by racist beauty standards; you're a bad person if, say, you fervently defend the perceived "ahistoric" nature of your attraction, or if you don't give even a passing thought to the beauty standards you've been, more or less, thrown into.

    In short: yes, being attracted to traditionally white features, for example, is racist; this doesn't make you a racist, or a bad person, but you shouldn't absolve yourself of your participation in a racialized beauty hierarchy.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]invisiblecows [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      That kind of callout makes a lot of sense here, actually. If you participate in SRSDiscussion, it's assumed that you agree with a few basic conversation parameters-- see rule 1 on the sidebar to the right. If you realize that you're arguing with a racist shithead who doesn't belong here, you call that person out for participating in bad faith, and you stop wasting your time.

      [–]yellowmadgey [非表示スコア]  (14子コメント)

      I am not sure I agree.

      I am attracted to thin people, am I sizeist?

      I am attracted to tall people, am I being heightist? (or a height supremacist, love that)

      I don't agree that who someone is/isn't attracted to can be problematic.

      Attraction is primarily physical, skin deep.

      [–]Hamstak [非表示スコア]  (7子コメント)

      When people make blanket statements about certain people and whether or not they will be attracted to them can be incredibly bigoted. If they do not ever actively question why they feel this way or dismiss it as being some part of their biology rather than a social up bringing they're probably pretty ignorant about it as well.

      [–]turntandburnt [非表示スコア]  (6子コメント)

      Would you say the same about gender? If I say I'm not attracted to males no matter the circumstance, I'm not being sexist. It's a blanket statement about 50% of the world. I'd never consider dating another guy.

      I know social factors influenced the traits I'm attracted to (female, dark skin) so it's not like I don't question it as biology.

      [–]bilnit[S] [非表示スコア]  (5子コメント)

      I have this same question.

      I'm not comfortable with it, but I kind of lean toward the idea that it IS bigoted to say "I'm not attracted to [X] under any circumstances, and will never reconsider it. Conversation over."

      But one problem with that line of thinking is that it suggests, for example, that homosexuality is a choice. And I've been taught that's not the case.

      So which is it? Every consenting adult is potentially dating material, or sexuality is a choice?

      I apologize in advance if my words are offensive. I'm new to the language of Social Justice, and am not a very sophisticated speaker. In time, I hope I'll be able to speak in a way that is welcoming for the perspectives of minorities and marginalized people.

      [–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

      Gender and race are just not directly substitutable like that. The equivalent to "I'm not attracted to black people" would be "I'm not attracted to women". If a gay guy is saying that, even if he is bigoted, it's not remotely on the same level because gay guys are maybe 2% of the population. Guys that are attracted to women for the wrong reasons are the huge problem.

      Is gender as invented as race? Yeah. Do we consider being unattracted to a gender problematic currently? Nope.

      We're at a point in society where it's not OK to treat people different based on race. If we ever even get to the point of accepting different genders and gender attractions enough that we can acknowledge gender attraction is largely arbitrary, we're probably centuries away.

      [–]AbradolfLincler [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

      gender attraction is largely arbitrary

      Wait, are you stating that as a fact? Because you seem to be stating that as a fact. You very much seem to be stating that sexual orientation re:gender is a choice.

      [–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (2子コメント)

      A conscious choice, no. An effectively arbitrary attraction to certain traits which are arbitrarily assigned to genders by culture, yes.

      [–]blarghable [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      it depends on whether you're "not attracted to" or "would never date".

      [–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (4子コメント)

      I don't agree that who someone is/isn't attracted to can be problematic.

      Then congratulations, you're (at minimum) a staunch supporter of racists and fetishistic creeps.

      [–]yellowmadgey [非表示スコア]  (3子コメント)

      Because I am uncomfortable criticising who one is/isn't attracted to I am (at minimum) an internalized racist?

      [–]ThePerdmeister [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      Beauty standards are heavily racialized. You need to realize this. Launching from this however, I would be cautious of labeling someone a racist for buying into racialized beauty standards. One's attraction doesn't necessarily make them a racist or a bad person, but one shouldn't absolve oneself of the fact that some brands of attraction, say, preferring typically white features, are racist. Does this make sense?

      So, for instance, it isn't necessarily wrong to hold racialized hierarchical beauty standards (well, I mean, it is, but attraction often appears phenomenologically as sort of innate and unfiltered -- which of course isn't the case; there are massive social/economic institutions propping up racist beauty myths), but it is wrong to 1) accept these standards as some sort of "innate," or "natural" personal belief, 2) disregard the ways in which your aesthetic values have been manufactured, and 3) argue fervently in favour of racist beauty standards.

      [–]so_srs [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      At minimum supporting racists and racism.

      [–]yellowmadgey [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      If the minimum you think I have done by being uncomfortable criticising who one is/isn't attracted to is supporting racists/engaging in internalized racism, I am not sure what the maximum potential charge is? Being a literal Nazi?

      [–]blarghable [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      In reality I couldn't date a white girl. I really really dislike white skin aesthetically. Maybe I'm shallow but that doesn't make me racist right?

      is that really a big enough factor for you to not date someone?