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Netrunner DB is closed (self.Netrunner)

donblas が 投稿

http://netrunnerdb.com/

Trash 1 fan site. End of story.

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[–]gotsanity 96 ポイント97 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Alsciende, thank you for the years of dedication and hard work. You have inspired my own endeavors in other games and have been an awoke member of the community. Thank you for all you have done even in the face of a company that doesn't care about the positive impact you have instilled in their products.

[–]ihuckdisc 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

tagging /u/alsciende so he might see this.

(And if you do make it here -- thank you for all of your work - your site was the one that got me hooked on building decks and thinking about new ways to play the game).

[–]gotsanity 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for tagging him. It's hard enough writing that wall of text on a swype keyboard without having to throw special characters into the mix :)

[–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same here! NetrunnerDB made it easy to try out your crazy deck ideas.

[–]badpersonlivingbadlybad player playing bad id badly 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (8子コメント)

This is probably stupid, but I feel really sad about this... I always thought FFG was better than GW and WotC.

[–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not stupid.

Netrunnerdb.com is so obviously superior to CardGameDB.com that when FFG force it to shut down even when the author is ready to make any kind of compromise they want to keep it up, you have to wonder about FFG's competency with the internet.

[–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't have to wonder about their competency. It's obvious when you look at their corporate site, and then note that they bought CGDB over a year ago, and it now looks worse than when they bought it.

However, I had thought that FFG was more concerned about their customers' opinions.

[–]SydtrackShit! I forgot to trash your card after installing that virus! 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The corp takes a Bad Publicity

[–]ihuckdisc 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Probably too late at this point, but a couple of good links:

Give feedback: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_atencion.asp

Sign the petition: https://www.change.org/p/fantasy-flight-games-please-allow-netrunnerdb-com-to-continue#share

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]ihuckdisc 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Same here. I sent mine to them the first day this broke, and no response has been given personally yet. I am imagining that I won't actually get one because of the volume - or at least it will be a form letter.

    To which department did you pick to send your complaint?

    [–]Meta4XPersonal Evolution 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I sent a complaint to the "General" option and I've also not received a response.

    [–]StomiasOCTGN: Roz 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Forcing the best ANR fansite to close sure as hell doesn't make me want to keep investing in the game. Sad.

    [–]qtipd 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (14子コメント)

    It was so easy to buy ANR when I could see other decks, easily make my own, and use the chrome plugins to follow along on reddit discussions.

    Now keeping up with the game is going to cost me too much effort. I'm probably going to stop buying, not because out of some sort of vengeance, but because the game is insanely less accessible to me now.

    [–]pizzageist 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Netrunner Lookup has been one of my all time favorite chrome extensions. It provided hover-over card image pop ups for any Netrunner card mentioned on any website. A feature made possible through the NetrunnerDB API. Now that's gone too.

    Not having that simple yet ridiculously useful convenience really takes the wind out of my sails for discussing and reading about Netrunner online. Reading and discussing Netrunner online is what fuels my obsession with building and playing. My obsession with building and playing is what keeps me buying data packs on day one.

    I'm not quitting the game, I'm not even threatening to quit the game. But FFG making it less convenient for me to devote time, attention and money to their product seems like a step in the wrong direction. Are they not aware that quitting a game doesn't have to be a conscious decision?

    [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This right here x1000.

    I'm not quitting the game, I'm not even threatening to quit the game. But FFG making it less convenient for me to devote time, attention and money to their product seems like a step in the wrong direction. Are they not aware that quitting a game doesn't have to be a conscious decision?

    [–]gremdelRez them all. 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Netrunner Lookup developer here. This sucks. And thanks!

    [–]pizzageist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, thank you! I was just looking through the Netrunner Lookup options as if there was some secret button to make it work again (after the 20th or so time today of instinctively hovering over a link on a site only to see the grim "NetrunnerDB closed by order of Fantasy Flight Games" popup) and noticed this message in the About section:

    "Thanks to Cédric Bertolini for the great site NetrunnerDB! Its API and images make this extension possible and he made some great suggestions as I was developing the extension."

    Bummer.

    [–]sammywhammyboy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seriously. A single salty tear fell when I hovered over a card on here today.

    [–]maximusawesomus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That appears to have been the problem, their distribution (not just usage) of the images through the API.

    They really should have just asked for that to be removed but I suppose then you leave open a standard for saying it's ok to use the images in the first place so they couldn't turn a blind eye on a case-by-case basis.

    [–]pizzageist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm kind of re-hashing something I said below that got buried:

    How do extensions such as Autocard Anywhere have similar functions for a long list of games like Magic: The Gathering, Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Hearthstone, Cardfight!!Vanguard, Legend of the Five Rings, My Little Pony, Solforge, World of Warcraft TCG and Dominion?

    Are they using APIs similar to the one NetrunnerDB had set up? If so, why aren't the copyright holders for those games shutting down those sites?

    [–]grimwalker -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    the fact that NRDB had API functionality sufficient to enable a Chrome Extension should be explanation enough of why it got shut down. Indiscriminate distribution of copyrighted material is supposed to be tolerable to a company?

    [–]sigma83wheeee! 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This argument doesn't hold water for me because the material was already made available by said company.

    [–]maximusawesomus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Unfortunately it is the case though.

    For example, Kevin MacLeod makes incredible open-license music that anyone can use for any reason (with attribution). EXCEPT for distributing that music yourself in a manner that isn't "hey, look how cool this is".

    It's legally taking ownership of it and that's what's happened here. Distributing from your own server with API is very different from sharing.

    It's a shame they didn't just ask for the API to be removed, or for watermarks to be added.

    I guess they panicked after Jinteki, made a poor knee-jerk decision and now have to follow through on it.

    [–]pizzageist 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I get it. Except that argument doesn't really hold water when you look at other games and other extensions. For instance Autocard Anywhere does similar popups for "Magic: The Gathering, Pokémon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Hearthstone, Netrunner, Cardfight!!Vanguard, Legend of the Five Rings, My Little Pony, Solforge, World of Warcraft TCG and Dominion."

    I've gone ahead and struck out Netrunner because that is the only one not working anymore.

    [–]skydivingninja 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You don't see WotC, a huge company with its own online play, deckbuilding, and a database shutting down magiccards.info, or gatheringmagic, or tappedout, or any other deckbuilders, databases, or secondary markets out there. They understand that fansites are good for the community overall. They made one misstep when they sued the user Rancored_Elf for spoiling magic cards well ahead of release, but they've since remedied that situation by posting new card spoilers as soon as they appear anywhere, and said misstep was in 2005 or something when people still didn't quite understand how potent the Internet could be. Other than that I'm pretty sure they just send C&Ds for free online play like Cockatrice, which is totally understandable and justified. FFG could learn something from their super-successful competition.

    [–]maximusawesomus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Don't be so dramatic. There are plenty of alternatives for keeping up with the game.

    [–]kcboy102Run me Run me! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Same, Too much of my desks on it are lost... I really don't have the energy to create them again... I guess it's time to withdraw, and focus on other aspects of life.

    [–]BeernardIce is Murder 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It was that step ahead that netrunner needed. A perfectly functional site to browse - create decks, discuss and pretty much bond with the game. We've talked too much on this, i have no energy. As you said, it's sad.

    [–]maximusawesomus 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It has been suggested that it was the API that was the issue.

    Unfortunately they can turn a blind eye to usage of images, but they were distributing it (eg to countless mobile and web apps).

    Badly handled in any case, and poor communication as to why the site wasn't just asked to remove that API or watermark images, etc.

    [–]Spaceman-Spliff 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    The way FFG handled this makes me irrationally angry at every little flaw on cardgamedb...

    I'm over here yelling at my computer "WHY CAN I ONLY SAVE ONE DECK PER MINUTE"

    [–]azraelng 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Send them feedback about all your issues. I did, I had a huge list of complaints, some big, some very minor.

    [–]skydivingninja 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's what I'm doing, as well as sending a general email about my disappointment they couldn't work something out. NetrunnerDB was so amazingly intuitive compared to CardGameDB its laughable.

    [–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I hate that I can't access CGDB at work...now what am I going to do now that NRDB is down. D:

    [–]PaxCecilia 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I can... but for some reason the "reset deck" button normally at the bottom right hand of the deck builder is inflated to take up all of the white space on the page. 1 misclick deletes the deck without saving progress.

    Also I can't figure out how to save my deck without pressing the massive reset button :\

    [–]Reihodgins 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thank you, Alsciende, for such an amazing site. I've very sad to see it go.

    [–]RS14-2 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Seen in /r/magictcg today:

    Looks like one of the resources for looking up cards in a database has been forced to close by the publisher.

    That's a bit... concerning. You'd think that open information is not only part of this game's theme, but an incredibly helpful tool in helping your game spread.[1]

    [–]XenasisCerebral Imaging 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    In short, someone's less likely to buy the game because of FFG's decision.

    I can't fathom why FFG thought it was a good idea.

    [–]rohboat 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yep. I'm out. Fuck those jerks.

    [–]promess 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Dolla dolla bills y'all.

    [–]XenasisCerebral Imaging 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But (quite evidently) they're losing money, so it's obviously not getting them money...

    [–]exozik 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    FFG recommend you use CardGameDB.com.

    FFG welcome suggestions on how to improve it.

    Here's my suggestions:

    -> Trash CardGameDB.com

    -> Copy/Paste NetrunnerDB.com

    [–]Mo0manJinteki 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Install over in the already built remote server

    [–]Salad_Person 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Well, then.

    Who wants to play Doomtown?

    [–]reversezer0It's A Trap! 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    /r/doomtown

    Edit: (Still needs a deck builder)

    [–]gotsanity 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I've already been working on one. The database is online and searchable but deck building is in progress. Http://doomtown.projectmulligan.com

    [–]xpiredsodapop*beeeeeeeeeep* runner flatlined... 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    doomtowndb.com...

    [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    NDB is free software. Somebody could just modify that for Doomtown.

    [–]gotsanity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    already looking into it but its a big chunk of code to modify so would take quite a bit of time unless someone (hint /u/alsciende) would be up for helping out (which I would be down for). I started building my own version as a learning project more than anything.

    [–]WillingdoneNetrunner with Willingdone 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I do, but I'm not going to quit Netrunner over it.

    [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]gotsanity 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      It's a great game. The rules can be a bit tricky at times and deckbuilding has so many layers its crazy. My suggestion is to do a couple net decks while you get the hang of it and then build like a mad man

      [–]Meta4XPersonal Evolution 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I found the "quick play" rules to be incredibly, incredibly bad. It attempts to walk you through a game using a pre-built deck with a specific order. There were a number of glaring and very confusing errors, not to mention I've never been so bored in my life. It was bad enough to put me off the game for a while, good thing I didn't pay anything (directly) for it.

      [–]gotsanity 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Those are bad and the decks are worse. Constructed decks play way different. The biggest issue most people have is not recognizing the fragile state of the board. Every action has a huge reward vs risk factor much like actual poker. Hedge your bets and play it safe. You will do much better

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I recommend just building one of the pre-cons, then reading the rules and playing.

      [–]TanithArmoured 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      never heard of it before, EIL5?

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The setting is Weird West: it's an alternate history Wild West with magic and zombies and steampunk. In order to win, you have to have more control points (blue chips) than your opponent has influence points (red chips). Deeds give you control, dudes give you influence. Also, you fight with poker hands. It's a blast.

      [–]Artemis_J_Hughes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Think of a game set in a much darker version of Brisco County, Jr.

      The make the game mechanics be poker meets a board game all wrapped up in a deckbuilding card game.

      In a word: awesome.

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I do! That game's awesome. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but I've only gotten in 3 plays so far.

      [–]leastfixedpoint 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Are there any indications that Pinnacle will behave better than FFG?

      [–]ItsTooHotForFlannelTaaaaag, you're it! -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You don't happen to be a lawyer of Chinese descent, do you?

      [–]Salad_Person 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      This sets an ugly precedent on the game and community.

      "Because we already offer deckbuilding and card browsing services, we do not allow others to do the same.'

      online deckbuilding gone.

      "Because we already offer online forums and blog posting services, we do not allow others to do the same."

      /r/netrunner C&D

      "Because we already offer playtesting and tournament services, we do not allow others to do the same."

      Not allowed to play with the cards.

      I'm a little irrationally mad.

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      We don't even need the slippery slope part for it to be ugly.

      Not allowing fans to make deck builders or card databases is a pointless and self-defeating move.

      [–]maximusawesomus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      They clearly haven't got an issue with that as other alternative sites are still up.

      It's the redistribution api that's caused it after Jinteki.

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Apparently the main issue was it was more successful than their own site and this upset them:

      http://www.reddit.com/r/Netrunner/comments/2gr9l3/a_few_words_about_the_netrunnerdb_shutdown/

      [–]RumRogersSr 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Becasue WE built it.

      [–]Salad_Person 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Official FFG ID.

      "I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

      [–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Irrational, yes.

      You're using the "slippery slope" arguement and running insane with it a la running RnD with Maker's Eye with zero cards in hand vs Jinteki PE and at zero agenda points stolen.

      [–]HandsomeMonkey 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      http://imgur.com/OwlRVfj

      [–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      That isn't a deflector!

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (11子コメント)

      I really want to know what the reason for this was. I kind of wanted to explore the idea of making a deck building site, but I don't know what I need to do differently from NetrunnerDB. Just making the thing and hoping I don't get a C&D from FFG is not acceptable.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Jinteki.net is the reason. It was supposed to end up being a site where people could just go play for free without downloading anything. It would've threatened FFG's profits, and it had to be shut down. But, it wouldn't be fair to shut down one site and let all the rest go.

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Jinteki.net may have been the trigger, but it can't be the reason. NetrunnerDB was not Jinteki.net.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      And what's the difference between a trigger and a reason, exactly?

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      A trigger, in this context, is simply an event that incites action, often the straw that broke the camel's back or something that evokes an emotional response. A reason is the actual, official justification for your actions.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      And in my opinion, Jinteki.net is both of those things.

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      So you are saying the existence of a web site justifies the takedown of another web site?

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      When both websites are a threat to a company's intellectual property, yes. FFG was fine with fan sites, and then one of them went a little too far and ruined it for everybody else.

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I would say that the real reason for the takedown of NetrunnerDB was the threat posed by NetrunnerDB, not the threat posed by Jinteki.net. That's the distinction I'm trying to make.

      However, they have not publicly spelled out the conditions under which they will take down other web sites, which is why I am upset about it.

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      It turns out the actual reason given was that they just want CardGameDB to be the only available deck builder.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yup, which was actually my first thought like a week and a half ago when this thing started.

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm in the same boat.

      I have a half-built deckbuilder too. I stopped it because Netrunnerdb came out. Now that its gone, my need for a decent deckbuilder returns again.

      [–]Ze_ain 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Just don't use cardgamedb. Don't make them feel justified.

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Already there. That deckbuilder sucks ass. :P

      I do comment on their forums occasionally, but their forums are pretty sparse, too. They have some good articles. I dunno. CGDB doesn't really have anything that you can't get somewhere else.

      [–]argle523 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I desperately want to give them feedback on cardgameDB so that it actually gets better, but I just tried using it and there's just SO much that needs changing for me to even consider using it... I don't have time to do someone else's job of designing the deck-builder. I just want a builder that works.

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Seriously, don't bother. They only have one person working on it, and they have other stuff going on, too. That poor site admin is going to get slammed for all the stuff wrong with the site now, and all because FFG had to get lawyer-happy and is too cheap to hire more developers.

      [–]argle523 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yup.

      [–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Just give them one thing then.

      [–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      My one suggestion:

      Dear Fantasy Flight Games, please replace CardGameDB with NetrunnerDB.

      [–]explodycatEffective. Reliable. Humane. 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Sent feedback to customer service via http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_atencion.asp

      While it may be too late to make a difference for netrunnerDB, it's never too late to make your voice heard as a community. Let them know how you feel about their decision. Feel free to copy+paste the message I wrote to customer service just now as your own.

      In regards to the Netrunner Cease and Desist actions of the past week:

      I just wanted to convey the sadness I feel that the final outcome of FFGs discussions with the creator of netrunnerDB.com has been a shutdown of the site. Please pass this along to your superiors and have them take note of the fans that have been let down by this decision including 1,945+ ones who care enough to have signed the internet petition available at https://www.change.org/p/fantasy-flight-games-please-allow-netrunnerdb-com-to-continue

      [–]Metaphorazine 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Just sent mine...

      Hi all,

      I'd imagine you're all getting slammed with messages about the closure of NetrunnerDB at the moment, and the last thing you want it another one. And I know that one more message isn't going to change anyone's mind...

      But I was sitting down in front of my computer feeling glum, and felt like I had to at least write to tell you about it.

      Last night I played 8 games, won 3 and lost 5, but that's not bad for 2 basically brand new decks. See, I'd built them the week before on NetrunnerDB... Last night was their first outing. And while playing, I was thinking of the changes I needed to make. Cut Torch for Gordion, find a bit more econ, drop the Account Siphons... But now the deckbuilder that I enjoy, that works so well for me, is gone.

      I know there's alternatives out there, but unfortunately they're just not that good. I wish they were! NetrunnerDB was perfect for me, but I can easily appreciate it's not everyone's cup of tea. But the more options out there, the better, as there's nothing that makes me more excited about an upcoming game of Netrunner than to sit down and peruse all the cards, go through all the choices, and think of some devious new trick.

      That's now going to be a lot harder for me, and unfortunately even though I really really love your game, I think it's going to impact on how much I enjoy it.

      There's 517 unique cards in the game now, far more than I can keep straight in my mind while deckbuilding manually, so an online service is vital for the strength of this game. And as the other options for deckbuilding out there don't work as well for me as the one I'm used to, the one that's now gone, it's going to make things much much harder for me.

      Please consider how your actions have impacted me, and many fellow Netrunners out there like me. I understand that you were completely legally justified in the actions you took. I don't dispute that for a second. But I and many others simply wish you could have found a compromise with Alsciende, and found a way to allow us to continue enjoying your game as much as we did.

      All the best...

      [–]JOJOBASS 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (28子コメント)

      Very unfortunate. I still do not understand FFG's rationale for shutting down NetrunnerDB.

      [–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      To drive traffic to the site they bought. If you spent a lot of money to buy a site, you wouldn't want people to use another.

      But still...it's a bad PR move.

      [–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (26子コメント)

      Jinteki.net

      [–]unseen_vision 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (25子コメント)

      If this is true why is Jinteki.net still up?

      [–]Brad_Defacto 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (29子コメント)

      http://netrunner.meteor.com/ takes some getting used to. but it is way better than cardgame db.

      [–]unseen_vision 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (22子コメント)

      I'm surprised they weren't forced to shut down as well...

      [–]BlueSapphyre 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      it's probably on the axe list.

      [–]SonofSonofSpock 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I emailed the site admin and he said they have not been contacted by FFG yet, but he isnt going to invest a lot of time or effort into the site until this blows over, understandably.

      [–]lol_squared 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (18子コメント)

      Why would they ever be forced to shut down? There's pretty much nothing for FFG to target.

      Netrunner DB was hosting card images and allowing them to be hotlinked (albeit unknowingly) by an on-line implementation of the game.

      Do people legitimately not grasp the difference?

      [–]Let_Me_Be 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      You can hot-link images from meteor as well.

      http://imgnetrunner.meteor.com/cards/access-to-globalsec-core.png

      [–]amightyrobot 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      BOOM! C&D!

      This thread was a sting operation the whole time.

      [–]unseen_vision 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (15子コメント)

      Meteor also has images. What's to stop people from hotlinking to those?

      [–]Brad_Defacto 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      maybe wait on it.

      [–]aprecheRUN 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      We've been using this site all along. Better than NetrunnerDB IMHO.

      [–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I find using meteor very clunky, but maybe it's because I'm used to used NRDB. Is there a way to sort by influence?

      [–]aprecheRUN 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Oh, I don't use it for searching cards. I use it for deckbuilding and sharing. I like that I can type in a deck list very quickly entirely with the keyboard.

      For card searching I use http://onosendaicorp.com/cards/corp but it's missing the latest cards :(

      [–]BlueSapphyre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oh ok. I'm not familiar enough to know the name of cards to type up a deck really quickly...Thanks for that link! I recognize card art a lot better than card names.

      [–]Brad_Defacto 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I like the site. I stopped using it because of weird page refresh issues.

      [–]kirklanda 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The biggest problem with meteor is that cards don't get listed there until they're released, so you can't create hypothetical future decks on it.

      [–]BinarySecondStronger Together. 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja06DJrFe5E

      [–]snowe2010 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      you can still check out the code from github and run it on your own computer. No need to stop using it, it's just a bit more of a pain now. https://github.com/Alsciende/netrunnerdb

      [–]unseen_vision 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      It wasn't only the functionality of the deckbuilder that I enjoyed. Getting comments and suggestions on decks and discussing the decks of others was a huge part of the enjoyable experience.

      Meteor Decks doesn't offer this and, as far as I know, no other deckbuilder site that is still up does either. Sure, we can post decks here, but I doubt anybody wants this subreddit clogged with deck lists.

      Edit: After checking CardGameDB, it doesn't appear that there is a comment system for submitted decks. Let's hope that CardGameDB is really improved with all the suggestions we are offering.

      [–]SonofSonofSpock 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      maybe we should make a sub for sharing/critiquing decks

      /r/netdeck perhaps?

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I like this idea!

      [–]snowe2010 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      true, I never used it for that reason, so I wasn't thinking about that.

      [–]dinteOCTGN: thike 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I keep typing netrunnerdb.com into my browser out of habit. Increasingly sad every time.

      [–]guruguju 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      My email to FFG:

      I very much have enjoyed the games you make and am saddened by the decision to shut down netrunnerdb.com. You have shut down the best part of the community for me, and therefore I will no longer purchase any FFG product in the future. Thank you for saving me a ton of money and showing that your legal department is more important than your fan base! Your silence on the matter speaks volumes as to the priorities of the company.

      [–]daytodave 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Given the suddenness of FFG's recent attack against the core of the Android: Netrunner community, fans would appreciate if you were to offer a grace period in which we could return Netrunner datapacks and other products purchased before the cease and desist letter was sent to netrunnerdb.com.

      Thank you.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I fully blame jinteki.net.

      [–]4698458973 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think the appropriate Netrunner-ish response to this has to be to clone netrunnerdb.com over to some other TLD: .io (for fun, but I think still susceptible to takedowns), .ru ...

      [–]WillingdoneNetrunner with Willingdone 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Do we have any sort of official statement about this yet? I couldn't find one.

      [–]casusev 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      "We don't care about you, just your money."

      [–]lghitman 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Anyone want to buy 2 cores + all of the datapacks and big boxes up to but not including First Contact?

      [–]ErPanfiWait,wait,wait! I've got the right program right here! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Interested in one core. Do you ship to Europe? ;-)

      [–]peachios 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Half off? haha, and not in europe

      [–]ibsenian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Unfortunately, this also means that Net Deck, the iPad deck builder that uses the NetrunnerDB API, will also not be updated from now on :( http://boardgamegeek.com/article/16926936#16926936

      [–]Gaiduku 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Just one quick question - what is it about Cardgamedb that is so inferior to NRDB?

      This isn't me trying to defend FFGs actions. Despite loving this game I'm probably a lot less active in the community than most of you guys. My experiences with these websites prior to NRDBs closure was simply to see a quick pic of a card so I understood what it did. This usually involved going via google and I would click on whatever appeared first and from my admittedly simple point of view they both seemed pretty similar.

      Obviously this isn't the case but what is it about NRDB that made is far superior?

      [–]unseen_vision 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm probably a lot less active in the community than most of you guys

      I think this is precisely why a lot of people who are questioning why others are so upset about the closure don't get it.

      I've said it multiple times already in reply to others, but I'll go ahead and fill you in as well:

      It wasn't only the functionality and cleanliness of the deckbuilder NetrunnerDB offered that I enjoyed. Submitting decks, getting comments and suggestions on decks and discussing the decks of others was a huge part of the enjoyable experience. Community! NetrunnerDB made deck discovery, discussion, card search and deckbuilding extremely easy and intuitive with a very simple and easy to understand interface.

      [–]Reddit_Bork 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      sigh Why do I have the feeling like /u/alsciende got tagged and then netrunnerdb.com was trashed for a click and 2 credits?

      [–]seanzorr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      /u/alsciende Have you thought about reopening your site without the word netrunner in the url? May get around what they are trying to accomplish. Jinteki.net NetrunnerSpoilers NetrunnerDB all down, all have a trademarked name

      [–]h_flex 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Anyone going to worlds should wear shirts that say "I remember NetrunnerDB"

      [–]cranked 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Mine is going to say #FreeNetrunnerDB. Might even print up a playmat while I'm at it.

      [–]dinteOCTGN: thike 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I may get this as playmat.

      [–]coffeepunkice ice bioroid 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Fantasy Flight: we can move fast to shut sites down but we sure as shit can't ship a data pack on time.

      [–]AnalysisSitus 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Shutting a site down is done by asking your lawyers to write stern emails, while producing and shipping a data pack is nowhere near as easy. I'm as angry at FFG as you are, but this is a completely inane comparison.

      [–]coffeepunkice ice bioroid 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      WHATEVER NERD (ziplines into a ballpit)

      [–]restlessavenger 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      So, the guy creates a site, uses high res copyrighted non watermarked images, includes an API that makes it easy for an individual to pull all of those images at once, thus making it super easy for one to make a full counterfeit set of cards... and FFG is the bad guy?

      Sure the site was very useful, and I am bummed it's gone, but this isn't shocking at all.

      [–]nydnarb 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Since FFG let nrdb exist for almost a full year and let it become a keystone of the online Netrunner community, it is a little shocking that they tanked it so aggressively.

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This argument would make so much sense ... if all the images weren't readily available on cardgamedb.com (also without watermarks), and all the card data in numerous fan-made deckbuilder spreadsheets.

      Honestly, netrunnerdb.com saved counterfeiters or other bad guys maybe a couple of hours work at most.

      [–]Horse625NEXT Design 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Not a popular opinion, but I fully agree. The straw that broke the camel's back, though, was Jinteki.net, a site where people were supposed to be able to play for free. FFG couldn't shut them down and let all the others go free, it wouldn't be fair.

      [–]voodoochile78Chaos Theory 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Vote with your wallets, folks. It's the only kind of pressure consumers can put on businesses

      [–]aydos13 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      What I do not get is why didn't FFG just tell Alsciende to remove the API.

      This would have kept the deck builder up and prevented douches from applying it to their obvious copy right infringing sites.

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I haven't gotten a good look at NDB's codebase yet, but I'm thinking that it wouldn't run without the API. We're just assuming that the shutdown was because of the API, anyway. Regardless, anybody can download the API and use it themselves; FFG hasn't stopped that.

      [–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Not sure you quite understand what the API is. Or maybe you do, but its just not clear in this comment, either way I would like to expand on it for the benefit of fellow redditors.

      The internal card database is one thing, but the API is another. External websites could send live requests to the API over the internet to netrunnerdb.com such as 'please tell me all about the card "Modded"', or 'what card is "01074" (meaning core set, card 74)'. And it would return every detail of the card including costs and text and a link to an image of the card.

      The loss of this API service kills stone dead the Netrunner lookup browser plugins and the iPad app NetDeck. And also impairs littlechiba and the tournament scoring app NRTM.

      All those sites & apps might be able to re-tool to get card data and images from somewhere else, but they're all going to get new cards slower now, and with a lot more pointless duplication of effort.

      [–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah, I understand that. I'm sure if somebody else put up the API, FFG would send lawyers after them, too. Maybe that BGG poster in Russia would be willing to host it? Russia doesn't enforce copyright, from what I've heard.

      [–]HonkyMahFahsexb0t v0429.48.1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      My latest email to Team Covenant:

      Can you cancel my datapack subscription? In light of FFG shutting down the netrunnerdb.com, I will no longer be supporting the game. Thank you for all of your work supporting the community -- let's hope FFG doesn't decide it doesn't want you casting games in the future...

      [–]IIn0x 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I really hope FFG have some projects behind that.

      [–]MrSmith2Weyland can into space 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Not quite, or so it seems. Everything but the homepage is working for me, though most images are blocked out.

      Can anyone else confirm/deny this?

      [–]BahnCalamari 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      probably your cache, it is fully shut down.

      [–]MrSmith2Weyland can into space 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Possibly, but it lets me create new decks fine.

      [–]GoodTeletubby 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And that takes down Autocard Anywhere, too. :(

      [–]Komatik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Lily Allen's "Fuck You" just started playing in my head. Strange.

      [–]Kngrichard 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      What is this madness...

      [–]w0nk0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I like the game. I play it less than I'd like to. Now it will take a lot more time to build decks, plus the company looks like douches to me now. If I can't easily build decks with new cards, will I buy new cards? I doubt it.

      Next step: C&D the octgn version?

      If so, that's the end of Netrunner for me. We'll see. They can turn this around by coming out with their own good play-online site and win me back, but the handling of this makes me doubt their abilities too much to be optimistic about it.

      [–]Jethro_E7 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      FFG, take +1 bad publicity

      [–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      They were associated with Jinteki.net, which ripped off the gameplay and offered all the art and games for free online. That is a direct threat to their business similar to reverse engineering. In-flow the cry babies and over-reactors on here though.

      "I'd like to remind the ladies and gentlemen of the press that several of the buildings damaged in the blast were owned by Fantasy Flight Games subsidiaries..."

      [–]nomm_ 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      As I understand it, NRDB was not at all associated with jinteki.net other than them lifting their card images from NRDB. Pretty sure Alsciende said he wasn't even aware they were doing so until after all this mess started.

      [–]ArgonWolf 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Its a sad fact but netrunner db was explicitly mentioned on the jinteki site, and therefore is going to be involved in the C&D whether they knew or not

      [–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      OCTGN had already caused FFG to think about it's online presence, and I think Jinteki.net took it a little too far. At least on OCTGN, you have to wait 6 months to get the images (unless you uploaded them yourself).

      Soon after FFG bought CGDB they released a statement about OCTGN (after removing the export feature from cgdb):

      Fantasy Flight Games is currently reviewing our policy regarding third-party online digital platforms that make use of the intellectual property associated with our products. We are committed to finding a solution that is both good for our player base, while not infringing upon anyone's intellectual rights whether for proprietary or licensed IPs. We expect our players support the need to protect the intellectual property rights of both FFG and our partners. We have returned the OCTGN export feature to Cardgamedb.com for the time being, as we continue to review.

      [–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah, I think Jinteki.net was the straw that broke the camel's back.

      [–]Knurhiem 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      A few day ago I bought some FFG products. And that's the last time I do so. FFG was not loosing money because of NetrunnerDB, probably it was the opposite. But its the american way. The big smash the small. And the small are usually too stupid and distracted to realise that together they are stronger than the big guys.

      [–]unseen_vision 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Any ideas which department I should address my complaints and suggestions to at FFG?

      [–]Brad_Defacto 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

      I wonder if WOTC was pressuring ffg to close this site. doesn't WOTC own the IP?

      [–]corallein 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      WoTC owns the IP, but not the copyright to all the cards. As such, I doubt they're involved at all in it.

      Edit: Actually, looking at the cards, they're marked with both WotC and FFG copyright. So I guess the license gives joint copyright to both parties.

      [–]ErikTwice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They allow dozens and dozens of deckbuilders, all of them heavily monetized, for Magic so it's extremely unlikely.

      [–]BlueSapphyre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yes, it's licensed out to FFG. And that could be the case, Hasbro (owner of WotC) is very litigious.

      [–]unseen_vision -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I don't get it. Doesn't WotC publish Magic? Isn't there a bunch of online fan sites and deckbuilders for that game?

      [–]BlueSapphyre -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They came down pretty hard on iOS deck builders once they released their own db. But they're also playing whack-a-mole. Everytime they shut down one, 2 more pop up.

      [–]theyoyoguy -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      They have the rights to the IP therefore they have every right. Hopefully this means they'll fix the cgdb infrastructure or give us official online netrunner since they're taking away our fun

      [–]Hideaki02 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Just because they have the right to do it, doesn't mean we have to be happy or supportive about it.

      [–]Komatik 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Of course it does! All hail FFG. Now stop screaming, worm.

      [–]tryllion 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      As I understand it, FFG doesn't have the right to shut the site down. They have the right to make NetrunnerDb stop using the images, but they can't stop the site from allowing people to build decks and such.

      Sadly, fan sites rarely have the financial backing to defend in court, so it's more about practicality than legal rights.