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NetrunnerDB Cease and Desist Megathread (self.Netrunner)

squogfloogle[M] が 投稿

With the recent NetrunnerDB C&D, we've had a whole heap of posts with a similar idea: to let FFG know that we're not happy with this decision. To avoid having our entire front page covered with these threads, we've decided to remove them and collate the information here. Feel free to post new links/discussion in this thread.

"In response to FFG C&D letter, petition to FFG letting them know how much netrunnerdb.com means to us, please sign" and comments

"Repost your emails to FFG (re: NRDB C&D) here"

"Don't forget to express your thoughts regarding the Cease and Desist on FFG's Facebook Page." and comments

"Call FFG's Game Center to express your concerns about the C&D against NetrunnerDB."

The purpose of this post is not to censor, but to avoid unnecessary duplication. Please remember to be civil when dealing with FFG and their representatives.

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[–]misterbigtimeGRNDL DEATH MACHINE 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Latest from Alsciende:

http://i.imgur.com/nNTd4xL.png

https://twitter.com/alsciende/status/511616882328477698

[–]swankidelic♥ Kate 4eva ♥ 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fantastic. Things are starting to turn around. On a scale of Games Workshop to WotC, FFG is starting to climb out of the hole ;) I hope we get NRDB back, or at least Alsciende helps them improve CGDB.

I do wish FFG was more open about this. There are two issues going on: 1) losing a popular, useful fan resource and 2) FFG's opaque aggression to fan resources. They opted to C&D Alsciende without talking with him or the community about their concerns.

[–]GrappleShotgun 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Often what happens is a company will say to the legal team: "Hey, we want to stop entity X from using our stuff. Make sure they can't."

Legal team goes and C&Ds entity X, and any entity that could be associated or construed as assisting.

The decision-makers at FFG may not have even known NRDB was given a C&D until people started complaining.

[–]MrLordcaptain 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And that is exactly why leaving these matters to a legal team alone is a very bad move for every business that has a lot of fan support/involvement.

edit: word

[–]dbzer0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aaaand it's shut down for good.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Netrunner/comments/2gr9l3/a_few_words_about_the_netrunnerdb_shutdown/

[–]PostalElfbecause virii m i rite guis? 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ridiculous!

Everyone knows that Activist Support is a great card for a Blackmail deck. We just need more support for Bad Publicity.

[–]emlunNasir Meidan HYPE! 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can support Bad Publicity by buying Bad Publicity's Bad Publicity bad publicity (Courtesy of Team Covenant).

[–]LahsbeeSiphon all the credits! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Excellent, thanks. Came here today looking for updates.

[–]teh_squid 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (3子コメント)

NetrunnerDB has led to me purchasing all of netrunner. This is a strange move.

[–]call_of_brothulhuoctgn: ryanedward24 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wut? (゜-゜)

[–]h_flex 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not that hard to understand. Having a resource where you can see a bunch of different decks to try out would encourage you to buy a full playset as quickly as possible, rather than to get stuff piecemeal, as you try making decks just on your own. The decks become advertizing for the cards inside the packs.

[–]teh_squid 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. Thinking about decks I wanted to play led me to buy packs I didn't have. I'm not the kind of person that would just randomly buy a pack, the only reason was to try a new deck.

Now I'm up to date so I do just buy them when they come out.

[–]ArgonWolf 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just so everyone knows, i've made a google-drive based deck builder that also keep track of your binder

It's not much but it's C&D-proof and you can take it offline. I've tested it in excel and it mostly works except for the legality checkers and the conditional formatting. Here's the link to Corp and Runner

If you want to use it please make a copy to your personal google drive, please do not use the one that these link to

[–]ohkendruid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice. Have you looked any at the Netrunnerdb source code? It is available online. Perhaps it could be modified to run on a local offline.

[–]EjirEjir 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If FFG thinks that killing services that players use to improve their gaming experience is going to help them out, they are fools and shooting themselves in the foot. If they want netrunnerDB dead so bad they should provide a better in-house online Deckbuilder.

Does CardgameDB have OCTGN support? I am guessing that killing the OCTGN scene may be part of their plan, which seems foolish to me as I'm guessing most of the OCTGN playerbase also purches the cards, I do anyway.

I'm concerned if they kill OCTGN, I live in a small area and I only get to play A:NR in person for a few hours each week, and I use OCTGN a lot to test out deck builds or ideas, as well as just play the game when there aren't any people in person to play. Considering how buggy and weird the OCTGN interface is, if they wanted to remedy this they could probably put out an A:NR official app, maybe put redeemable QR codes or numbers on the datapacks so that there would be an official venue for online play.

[–]disguise117 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does CardgameDB have OCTGN support? I am guessing that killing the OCTGN scene may be part of their plan, which seems foolish to me as I'm guessing most of the OCTGN playerbase also purches the cards, I do anyway.

The Star Wars LCG deckbuilder on CardgameDB does have full OCTGN support. In fact it is way better than building in OCTGN. I would imagine the Netrunner builder would have one too.

[–]StLionTeam Playmo' 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Man. The irony is too much for me. The game mainly features evil corporations taking actions against cyber-activist. One would think they would not behave this stupidly. I'm very disappointed in the way FFG handled this. Just makes me sad.

[–]vidarino 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm, should we start mailing them Bad Publicity tokens?

[–]GoodTeletubby 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's diligent defenders of privacy working to defend your better future from the cyber-terrorist threats. I do wish companies would start including buyout or employment offers with C&Ds.

[–]nanox55 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Especially because I thought FFG had a really good customer service etc.

I want to believe that it's just a doing of one person, so that they will stop this offense soon and everything goes back to normal.

imo it is safe to say that I would not have started to get into Netrunner if netrunnerdb had not existed :(

[–]ViceroyMalice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

If the dipshit didn't have the balls to take $200 Alt Art backgrounds, and name a website JINTEKI. They would have left it alone. That guy FORCED them to do this.

[–]tryllion -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, there are all sorts of steps short of legal action a company can take. And that's assuming those actions are the sole cause of this.

[–]grubberlang 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you know the $200 is not a price tag, right? It was a prize at 2013 worlds. The price is quite irrelevant, anyway.

[–]mysticpickle 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What I can't fathom is the grossly incompetent way Fantasy Flight has approached this situation. Rather than working with NetrunnerDB to fix the things they object to, Fantasy Flight just decided to sic their lawyers and try to nuke the community at NetrunnerDB out of existence. My respect for the company has just taken a nosedive.

They're certainly within their rights to protect their intellectual property and I am within mine to stop supporting a company that values that over the interests of their customers.

[–]jadenton 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (4子コメント)

tl;dr The C&D is probably not about Netrunnerdb, it is almost certainly about FFG and its relationships with other unnamed companies.

Given that FFG has allowed NetrunnerDB to last this long, it seems unlike they just up and decided to sic the lawyers on them.

More likely is that they have or will shortly be signing some kind of development deal to produce an online version of the game or otherwise license the IP. Whoever is signing the license will insist, as part of the deal, that FFG shut down the unlicensed options.

Alternatively, it could be that WotC is leaning on FFG as the owner of the rules sets. Remember, FFG itself licenses the game.

[–]LordNat 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is what I have been thinking. FFG down not right out own Netrunner and they might have been getting some pressure from WotC on their licence agreement about sights with high quality scans floating around.

They did not do this without reason, you don't just wake up one day and go "You know what lets fuck out fanbase!", there is always a legal reason behind things. It sucks sure, I used Netrunnerdb daily but I can deal with it and not harrass their games center or sign a petition on a political site (that no one see as having meaning anymore from people putting shit like this on it). Also I am going to wait till post worlds to really judge how I feel about their actions, I have a feeling something is going to be released there like drafting was last year.

[–]TheFiremind 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

WOTC hasn't done this to Magiccards.info, so I don't see them doing it with a game that makes them far less money.

[–]Metaphorazine 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Edit: Much of my below post is wrong, WoTC own the copyright on the Android:Netrunner cards. So this being instigated by WoTC is entirely possible.

I don't think that it could be WoTC leaning on them though. WoTC licensed the game and mechanics to FFG, but the card graphics are entirely owned by FFG to my understanding.

I think it almost has to be someone using scans from netrunnerdb in a way that FFG can't approve of because they are planning an alternate digital product, or licencing their images to someone else that is. Although with WoTC having success with magic online perhaps they've entered into a partnership with FFG to do the same...

It is a shame they didn't reach out to alsciende to offer a compromise that would solve whatever issue it is they have with netrunnerdb and still allow it to continue in some form, perhaps text only?

[–]EjirEjir 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly I hope they do. I live in a smaller city and my A:NR group only meets up once a week, so I play a lot on OCTGN, both as a means of testing out deck builds and just having a nice game. OCTGN works well in a pinch but it can be buggy as hell and learning its controls is a nightmare. If they put out an official online version of the game with QR codes or numbers on the data packs, that would be pretty excellent.

[–]steevo15 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

So has FFG responded to any of the backlash yet?

[–]squogfloogle[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All I've seen is this. I think they'll probably take a bit of time to construct a proper response, which I think is reasonable. I hope they'll have good communication with the community regarding their intentions and reasons, though.

[–]Davidisontherun 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Probably best to get out at least a quick message or something tomorrow so people don't take all weekend to get really worked up

[–]ErPanfiWait,wait,wait! I've got the right program right here! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have this:

https://twitter.com/alsciende/status/511616882328477698

[–]char2 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Please remember to be civil when dealing with FFG and their representatives.

Amen, especially after the stinky worldwide reaction to the Plugged-In Tour.

[–]greata1exander 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What was so bad about the reaction?

[–]Matt_Ve 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

People didn't like it was US only.

Ffg did another tour that was non US later on

[–]char2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But the non-US players threw a big hissy-fit between the two events in your post. A few non-US sites blacked out in protest and lots of virtual ink was spilled.

[–]SiggNatureStyle 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Chronos Protocol wasn't really a tour, though...

[–]gnsnprwldwslIt's our agendas to advance! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They were going to do the tour anyway but had not finalised the details on it.

[–]greata1exander 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, thats interesting. Thanks

[–]Zepaw 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I fell in love with this game this summer, bought every pack out so far. Netrunnerdb has been an invaluable tool for me and encouraged me to keep getting more cards to make a better deck. This C&D makes me angry I've spent nearly $300 on their game.

[–]RyphalI want you to get mad! 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

My other problem with this is 40k Conquest is an LCG that's just now trying to get off the ground and there's nothing like Netrunner DB for that yet, but moves like this are going to stifle community growth. There was only one fan site so far called 40kconquestspoiler.com that had high rez pics of everything as it has been announced and nothing more, and it's been shut down. I asked the creator on FB about it and he said he got a C&D as well. I never like the idea of only having one source to go to for checking cards or deck building. Now there's no hope for an awesome community site like NRDB for Conquest even before the official launch. :-(

[–]ArgonWolf 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Honestly anything 40k related that would have functioned like netrunnerdb for conquest was going to get C&D'd by Games Workshop. They are extremely litigious especially when it comes to their 40k IP.

[–]Komatik 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention absurdly paranoid and hateful about anything and everything to do with the Internet.

[–]keylimetartRefining the Sexbots 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The most reasonable theory I've heard for why this happened is that it was a result of them having to shut down Jinteki.net (obviously, it's hard to fault them for that). Since that site explicitly linked NetrunnerDB, it became difficult to plausibly ignore in a way that wouldn't impact their future ability to protect against copyright infringement.

Does anybody with actual legal knowledge know if that makes sense? Just trying to understand what would motivate them to roll out of bed one morning and file a C&D against the most popular Netrunner fansite.

[–]Fyzx 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

netrunnerdb has a donation link (monetization).

jinteki uses a lot of netrunner images.

2 birds 1 stone ;)

[–]WSable 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please, please do NOT call the Game Center. Those poor employees are probably just as frustrated as we are and have NOTHING to do with this.

[–]wort_wort_wortStimhack ftw. 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is true, but it is a means of generating more of a voice surrounding the issue.

I would think that a calm, polite, "I don't like the way this was handled. Please make a record of my complaint." is enough to say to the Game Center representative.

They likely already keep documentation of the calls they receive, this would just put your call in the correct category. Just DO NOT moan and groan needlessly at the reps. It will do no good.

EDIT: Actually, the Game Center is their physical store, right? That's definitely the wrong place to call. Maybe the number listed on this page (near the bottom) is better?

[–]TychoSean 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Corp traces and tags the runner, plays operation "Legal Threats", trash a program. Click for credit.

[–]skydivingninja 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Has anyone heard anything from the FFG Corporate Office yet?

[–]donblas 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://twitter.com/alsciende/status/511616882328477698

[–]mrbaconpantsEnjoy Bacon! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Game Over!

https://twitter.com/alsciende/status/512276850211844096