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NetrunnerDB Cease and Desist (boardgamegeek.com)

nur_ein_trottelClones are better! が 投稿

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[–]bombeater 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Embarrassing...

it's 2014. You should be providing data like this with an API, not punishing fans who scrape it together themselves.

[–]aprecheRUN 119 ポイント120 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Dear FFG. If you want to shut down all the other deckbuilding sites, that's fine. But you can't expect us to use the garbage site that is cardgamedb. If cardgamedb were the best deckbuilder around, nobody would even bother to make their own. Instead of shutting down these other sites, hire their developers to make cardgamedb stop sucking.

[–]aprecheRUN 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, and while you are at it, have them work on the official FFG site as well. That thing is totally stuck in the last decade.

[–]pAblO_CZIt is right time for crime. 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel it like punch into the Netrunner's community face!

[–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (15子コメント)

From their letter to Jinteki.net ...

"Please use our website www.CardGameDB.com2 for your Android: Netrunner deckbuilding needs. This service provides several useful tools. If you feel that our website service is lacking in some way, please do not hesitate to let us know so that we can make improvements. You can contact customerservice@fantasyflightgames.com if this is the case."

"We are already aware of the community desire for an online forum to play and have taken that into consideration. Because we already offer deckbuilding and card browsing services, we do not allow others to do the same.”

I think they're actively looking for feedback to make cardgamedb better. "Stop sucking" isn't great feedback. I dunno, cardgamedb is the main deckbuilder that I use and I've never had any issues with it, so I'm unsure what all the complaints I'm seeing here are all about.

Also worth noting, as of the most recent cycle, cardgamedb has begun watermarking their cards.

[–]a1ternity 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The cardgamedb deckbuilder just feels... old. Even with the new version. It's tough to describe exactly, but once I started using netrunnerdb I never looked back and for me it was the best deckbuilder out there.

Also, quite often cardgamedb is the LAST deckbuilder to be updated with new cards! It's silly that I can have a datapack in hands and yet not be able to select those cards on the official FFG deckbuilder!

[–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You know, that's a valid complaint.. They are usually slow with updated content.. Which is super weird, since they are closest deckbuilding site to the company.

If they're serious about feedback requests/are actively looking to improve their deckbuilding site, that'd 100% be something I'd e-mail them about.

[–]a1ternity 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's silly because if they really wanted to draw traffic to cardgamedb they easily could use it as an official spoiler site, revealing new cards there and giving early access to the new cards in their deckbuilders. They have the advantage of the inside info! But instead, cardgamedb is the LAST place to see the new cards online.

[–]Matt_Ve 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I started out using cardgamedb and stopped strictly because they took forever to get updated cards. When I see a set of spoilers I want to start deckbuilding with the new cards. This is what gets me excited to get the physical cards and buy data packs right away.

[–]DOAisBetter 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I accept that cardgamedb just feels outdated visually. However I agree my biggest problem with cardgamedb is how sometimes it can take up to a week to get new packs that have officially be released to hit the deckbuilder. That just kills my drive to make decks which sucks since I play 4, soon 5 LCGs.

[–]OldMarmalade 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would certainly generate some traffic if it was the FIRST to be updated, as it should be.

[–]Almotasim 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know, it isn't the community's job to fix or improve CardGameDB. If they want it to get better, they should consider hiring an interaction designer.

That said, it's great that they want to improve it. But removing the competition isn't a very good way of doing that ...

[–]casusev 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

cardgamedb is not intuitive. It's clunky, slow and awkward. In every way the opposite of netrunnerDB.

[–]DFGdangerHaas-Bioroid: Ending the Fun 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

tbh I've found netrunnerDB to be pretty slow for the last few months as well.

[–]casusev 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

netrunnerDB completed a server migration just last week, I believe.

[–]Law_Student -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've always liked Meteor Decks, personally.

[–]aprecheRUN 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do we really have to specifically tell them how to make cardgamedb not suck? If they would just use meteor, ono-sendai, netdeck, or netrunnerdb for one minute it is obvious how vastly superior the user interface is. Just copy them!

[–]jxfxsunshine 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

cardgamedb only satisfies my eye sore needs. Ugh, deckbuilding for netrunner just got a lot less painless.

[–]OldMarmalade 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Stop sucking" isn't great feedback.

You can't really get better feedback than an example of an awesome website.

[–]EjirEjir 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly most of their messages should just read "make it like NetrunnerDB was." Easier interface, ability to sort cards by set, ability to search card terms, honestly just have them make the website actually a useful utility and not phone it in.

[–]pAblO_CZIt is right time for crime. 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I totally agree with you.

[–]scatterbraincc 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wish I had more upvotes for you. It leaves everyone with a negative impression of FFG.

[–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FFG's corporate site sucks, too. They just haven't been good with online stuff in general.

[–]MattyTrane 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, they should have bought this guy out. Not threaten him.

[–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The guy who runs CardGameDB (and, I assume, also wrote the deckbuilder) is Darksbane. He's a pretty cool guy, and it was a labor of love until FFG bought it from him. So, I don't want to slam him. NDB's deckbuilder is much more polished and easier to use, though.

[–]IIn0x 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (10子コメント)

it's a shame. get to write to FFG an email to say him this is a big bullshit.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_atencion.asp

[–]scatterbraincc 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Done

[–]blackpix 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

done too

[–]WTFnoMIA 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Done as well, I've never in my life sent a complaint letter before. But damn I love Netrunnberdb

[–]IIn0x 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah man :D

[–]Boxblaster 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sign petition and sent a lengthy letter to Customer Service. Peppered within is statements about the small community, dependent on fansites to promote and discuss about the game. Also telling them that strong-arming could lead to major backlash, damaging the game and community as a whole, tarnishing FFGs reputation. Also raising doubt about business practices and with metagames becoming more of a standstill, due to lack of communication, making me hesitate to purchase more Netrunner products for me and my group. Hopefully it helps, as I've been playing the game for about 4 months and really would hate to see the experience go sour due to this.

[–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This needs to be at the top of this comment thread.

[–]IIn0x 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ty actually there is a petition!

https://www.change.org/p/fantasy-flight-games-please-allow-netrunnerdb-com-to-continue

[–]geezusfreeekPE + Kate 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I'm aware of it. I think both the petition and direct contact are good.

[–]faith_star83Shaper Savant 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

done

[–]MrLordcaptain 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Done, remember everyone that a well manered and written letter of concern is more likely to get acknowledged.

[–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Petition to FFG asking them to let them know what netrunnerdb.com means to us all https://www.change.org/p/fantasy-flight-games-please-allow-netrunnerdb-com-to-continue#

[–]DuolithicI found the buvvins 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Upvoting for visibility. Get this to the top, people. We have 200 signatures and counting.

[–]HonkyMahFahsexb0t v0429.48.1 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Netrunning without NRDB would suck terribly. What am I going to build and theorycraft by hand? What about OCTGN exports? I'm not using that POS cardgamedb.

I own every single data pack and 3 core sets and play in tournaments. NRDB is a critical tool for myself and the community.

[–]djc6535 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

netrunner.meteor.com isn't bad. It's not Netrunnerdb, but it's not bad.

[–]BTrain904 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And it's probably next on the axeman's list.

[–]Calc3 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not as pretty, but it runs a lot faster and is actually quicker to build with. It also doesn't really have a community feature, but still, I have always preferred it, mostly because I don't have to click (1,2,3) to choose how many of a card I want to play.

Well, guess it's a nonissue at this point.

[–]BeernardIce is Murder 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just pathetic. The site is a piece of art for me. Had it had boards that would be like 100 times of what agotcards is to agot.

Really sad, is there any way to contact ffg or anything. I know it sounds meh to many, but seriously.

[–]reizuki 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FFG contact form - probably PR department is the right one

Petition on change.org

FFG Twitter

[–]escapehatch 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

This sucks. NetrunnerDB was the best deckbuilder.

Hey Alsciende, if you happen to read this: thanks for making a really good site, and thanks for creating that "download all decks" button so I don't lose the decks I built.

This just seems crazy to me. Sites like this increase my interest in the game and contribute to me continuing to buy the cards. Playing online is the thing that made me decide to buy a 3rd core set (for a tournament-legal third desperado and sansan city grid, of course), even though I thought it was pretty insulting that fantasy flight knew we'd want those cards but wouldn't offer singles or a core set completion pack, instead low-level bullying people into buying 3 cores. That's what this C&D is too: bullying. If FFG wants to create THE deckbuilding site for their games by buying CDDB, that's great. I hope they succeed. But I hope they succeed BY MAKING A BETTER PRODUCT. These fansites are made by hobbyists on little to no budget. FFG could just use the fact that they actually have a budget to actually compete in the market and make the best site. Instead, they'd rather bully the competition out. And if there's one thing that's shameful, it's being a bully.

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank you, man ;)

[–]Tyleulenspiegel 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I also want to give you thanks. Your api was really kick ass also! I had just started this week using it in an iPhone app I was making to get up to speed on the new Swift language.

You put out a REALLY solid product all around. If FFG had any damn sense they'd hire you (and pay you handsomely) to improve their POS site.

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks!

[–]Sparkling_BeverageBuilding Better Worlds? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Agreed. The multiple core set issue has always felt a bit shady to me but I rolled with it. Now with this C&D, I too feel like we're (the community) being bullied.

[–]geckogex 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A shame and a very bad PR move imho.

[–]WTFnoMIA 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Fantasy Flight just advanced their hostile takeover agenda out of HQ on Netrunnerdb.com. Now they are receiving bad publicity, all for the sake of money.

[–]WhoFlyGood Vibrations 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We as a community have to Femme their Archer before it's too late.

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought it was a Grim. Well, it might end the run, so you're probably right.

[–]WhoFlyGood Vibrations 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they stand to make some money too.

[–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Reading more into this...

Also, it's worth noting that the young site http://jinteki.net also received a C&D. Although, jinteki.net was offering online play, so it's a different beast.

This is just a baseless wild theory-crafting idea - but I think Jinteki.net might be the root of this, going one step too far for what FFG was comfortable with for fan-made stuff, causing them to want to clamp down on some of the external sites.

[–]ElderMason 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

While I think that jinteki.net may have been the straw that broke the camels back I don't think they deserve any blame. Regardless of what other sites are doing NetrunnerDB is a great site that has me thinking about Netrunner all the time and how excited I am to buy the next data pack for any new awesome deck I want to try. This is a terrible PR move and business decision.

[–]maznaz 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes and no. The entire site was a time-bomb and anyone with any legal nous at all would have known that FFG would have to react. You can't do what they did without permission and expect no consequences. I'd be very surprised if the timing of this subsequent action is in any way a coincidence.

[–]HemoKhanMaking News 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agreed wholeheartedly. While it's all well and good for people to want to create new resources, jinteki.net was something so blatant that there was no doubt FFG would react... by using images directly from netrunnerdb.com, they implicated netrunnerdb.com and made FFG target them as well.

I'm absolutely comfortable with blaming jinteki.net for this C&D letter.

[–]char2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The guy who made it was foolish and should not have been surprised to have jinteki.net blow up in his face. He probably already feels pretty bad for taking netrunnerdb down with him, and keep hindsight bias in mind - everyone told him that he'll get C&D'd. Nobody suggested that netrunnerdb would be collateral damage.

It's his fault, yes, but try not to be too angry. FFG didn't have to go and be twits about this.

[–]kjnclRun Last Click 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jinteki.net also stated the source of all their art is netrunnerdb, so their may be some legal reason that netrunnerdb had to be listed in the C&D.

[–]SonofSonofSpock 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That echoes my thoughts on the matter.

[–]casusev 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (5子コメント)

A C&D on a fansite? Unbelievable.

Might as well C&D Team Covenant while you're at it, FFG.

[–]gotsanity 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Especially when said fan site has better and more heavily developed content. This is a poor move on their part and will only end up hurting the community and the game in its entirety. They didnt drive more traffic to cardgamedb, they pretty much just drove more people to play other games like doomtown.

[–]DOAisBetter 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Honestly the only reason netrunnerdb got the cn'd is because they offer high Rez images for the cards. Ffg seems to be scared mostly of octgn outgrowing the real game to a point where people will just play that. A lot of us find that funny as we can't imagine it going that way but honestly if ffg didn't make it so hard to get images into octgn from the start I am sure their fears would be a real issue 2 years from now. Considering I am sure they want netrunner to continue at this rate for years it makes sense they would go this route.

Ffg needs to create their own virtual card table similar to octgn and make their LCGs available through it and do something like include codes in packs to redeem them through the program. The only problem with this is how to get people cards from the packs they already own. The best solution would probably be to just make them available to purchase at a reduced rate and we as the community would have to accept that as a way to get something like that off the ground. Also they could do something like make 2-4 faction starter decks for each game playable for free against other starters so people could demo games.

[–]niels_henrik_abel 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would prefer a subscription model. Full access, all cards, integrated deck builder, online ranked play, $10/mo. I'd be on board in a heartbeat.

[–]Kandiru 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If they put codes in all the datapacks, good for 2 months of online access. You keep up-to-date in packs, and you play online for free.

Everyone is happy.

[–]ForgedIron 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That my friend is the (hopefully near) future of gaming.

[–]IIn0x 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

send email directly to FFG not here guys!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_atencion.asp

[–]PaxCecilia 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, that's bullshit.

[–]dlcnate1 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe we should all mail FFG a bad publicity token?

[–]pAblO_CZIt is right time for crime. 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bad news for every Netrunner.. :-(

[–]IntrovertedPendulum 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sad about the deckbuilder going. Well I am but not because I used it myself. What I primarily use netrunnerdb.com for is to look for individual cards or compare (old, spoiled, and Snow-Jax "spoiled") cards. Especially since I can do it from my search bar in Chrome.

For example I saw the card "Manhunt" mentioned somewhere in a discussion of taxing. I'm no stranger to taxing decks so I want to see why I didn't include it, I can't remember what Manhunt does or what set it's in. With netrunnerdb.com in Chrome, I open a new tab (ctrl+t), type "n" because I don't go on a lot of sites starting with N. But if I did, I'd just put in "netr", hit tab to tell it to search, and type "manhunt" and press enter. 5 actions to bring me to where I want to go. It took me about 2-3 seconds total with my hands never leaving the keyboard.

I tried it with cardgamedb.com. Open a new tab, type in "cardgamedb.com" to load the main page. Then click Card Spoilers ->ANR. Type in the card I'm looking for and press enter...except I needed to click the "search" button. This time it took a total of 6 actions, having to move to the mouse twice, and 'lo and behold it's not even in the database.

But let's try a different search. Suppose I want to include some ICE in my deck. Specifically meat damage ICE because I hate the runner. With netrunnerdb.com, it's still only 5 actions, never leaving the keyboard. The same process as above but typing "t:ice x:meat x:damage"

With FFG's, I get to the card search page (already actions just to get there). But there's no field available to search the text. So I click the "More Search Options" button. It takes another 5 actions to execute the search and 1 more to scroll down to see the first card that is displayed. 11 actions to make a fairly routine search? I just timed myself and it took me about 20 seconds to do all of that!

[–]Ayotte 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In Chrome, right click the url bar > manage search engines > in "other search engines", fill out the boxes with the following in the url field:

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrunner-card-spoilers?&advanced=false&nm=%s&or=name&vw=spoiler

It will look something like this. Now, when you open a new tab, type what you put in the "keyword" column (cg for me) and hit space, then type what you want to search for, it will pull up that card in cardgamedb. For example, if I open a new tab and type "cg archer", it will pull up the search results for archer in cardgamedb.

Note: this works for any website where your search result can be replaced in the url with "%s". I like to use it for reddit so I can type "r netrunner" in my url bar to go straight to www.reddit.com/r/netrunner.

Note: I vastly preferred netrunnerdb just like the next guy, but I felt like I would help you out with your predicament.

[–]razcrux 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Netrunner DB is thee single best deck editing website around. If it goes down, literally half my pleasure in the game is killed. It must stay up! Down with the corp, up with the runners!

[–]DuolithicI found the buvvins 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Incredible.

Unfortunately, this probably has way more to do with Wizards of the Coast pressuring Fantasy Flight Games than it does FFG giving two shits about whatever minor (if any) negative long-term brand repercussions might arise from a fan site being more usable and popular than the stated "official tool."

Warmest wishes and a firm salute to Alsciende, whose hard work and commitment to keeping NetrunnerDB open source have been both impressive and admirable.

edit: I should point out that, in the past, I have defended Wizards of the Coast's right to exercise their legal muscle when it comes to protecting their intellectual property. You may or may not be aware of the history of fan-created projects in the Magic: the Gathering community over the years, but Wizards' (read: Hasbro's) stance has always been to hit the C&D button when things get to the point where a legal case could possibly be made that Wizards isn't fully keeping usage of their IP in check. As a US-based company, they really have no choice.

BUT:

In the vast majority of those cases, the C&D hammer was dropped specifically on software that was intended to replicate, either directly or indirectly, a form of online gameplay that can be considered to compete with Magic Online, something that accounts for an enormous amount of Wizards' yearly gross revenue.

With that being said, I firmly believe that jinteki.net was the straw that broke the camel's back, and NetrunnerDB, due to its popularity, is the unfortunate message-bearer: FFG has no choice but to protect Wizards' interests if they want to retain the Netrunner license and will not hesitate to do so. The ongoing debacle with Cryptozoic and HEX, not to mention that company's previous snafu with Blizzard and the WoWTCG license, have served to solidify how serious the trading card game industry has become in recent years and this is just another drop in the bucket.

[–]Komatik 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If it was about WotC, just look at all the MTG deckbuilders that are alive and well. There are many.

[–]DuolithicI found the buvvins 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's my point. I don't think NetrunnerDB is really who this C&D is meant for. It just happens to be enormously popular... and hosted in the United States. (edit: this is apparently not the case.)

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a dick move, and purely indicative of a flawed sense of logic by the corporate lawyerdom, but also this is a symptom of IP law being what it is in the US and if it didn't happen to NetrunnerDB, it was bound to happen to another similar website eventually.

[–]nomm_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pretty sure NetrunnerDB is not hosted in the states. Alsciende wrote on BGG that he is in France and the server is in the Netherlands.

[–]DuolithicI found the buvvins 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm. I thought wrong then. Thank you for clarifying.

[–]BlueSapphyre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wizards came down hard on all deck building apps when they released their own on iOS.

[–]nydnarb 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't many of us just donate to nrdb for improvements?!?!?! Are you trying to piss us off FFG? You get one bad pub.

[–]bootyfiendALL HAIL JACKSON HOWARD 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems FFG is playing with a full playset of Foxfire.

[–]Murderwagon 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I have never heard of a fansite for a game get a cease and desist like this. It seems completely ridiculous. Completely changes my opinion of FFG.

[–]dapperdave 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ha! This kind of thing is old hat for Games Workshop fans...

[–]luquaum 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have never heard of a fansite for a game get a cease and desist like this. It seems completely ridiculous. Completely changes my opinion of FFG.

for me it means that I will not be playing this game anymore as they're taking away all my decks and my favorite deckbuilder. It's total bullshit.

[–]Almotasim 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What the hell. This makes me pretty angry. How on earth do they think this is a good move?

[–]casusev 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm curious if it's just the card images infringing on the IP, or the whole site (deck builder).

It could easily go image-less and still be an amazing resource for the community.

[–]BlueSapphyre 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

That's what I thought, if you remove the card images, then it should be fine.

[–]monkeysaurus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Warning! Total speculation incoming!

The developer has been more active recently in looking for donations towards running the site. I wonder if this crossed a line for FFG.

[–]Basschimp 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The card text would likely be protected by copyright (in Europe and the UK at least; I can't comment on the US).

[–]sabreo001 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How long until Reddit starts getting C&D orders for spoilers, etc? :(

[–]McCaberExile is the man, yo. 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is Snowjax gonna get Foxfire'd?

[–]fluc02 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Here's something I don't get--I know they can't just let people infringe on their IP willy-nilly because of the way US copyright law works, but can't they license their images to anyone they want?

Why don't they just write up some boilerplate that says "FFG grants this site a limited license to use these images for x period of time provided that they do not profit thereby" or something? Doesn't that protect their IP and also not screw over the community?

[–]Komatik 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They could do that.

[–]Basschimp 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Really strange move, not least since they don't have their own deck building site to push.

[–]teky-gamingReplicating Awesomeness 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

in fact they do, cardgamedb,I haven't used it in a while and it's uglier than I remember :(

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/androidnetrunner/android-netrunner-deckbuilder

[–]trithneTwenty one-pointers 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good lord, it is. It's actually worse than it used to be.

[–]Basschimp 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, I see. I didn't know that. Well, then it's a dick move that makes some sort of sense, at least.

[–]trithneTwenty one-pointers 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't they acquire CardGameDB? I seem to recall hearing that they did.

[–]CorruptDropbear 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

This is the oddest C&D I've seen, considering that NetrunnerDB is pretty much the only deckbuilder apart from Meteor. Has Meteor been sent a C&D? It stores pictures of the cards on it's own server, so why the hell is NetrunnerDB different?

[–]BlueSapphyre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they're all getting hit. Seems like FFG wants us to use cardgamedb.

[–]KhabaLox 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I came very close to buying the core set and at least a couple expansions. One if the reasons was Netrunnerdb gave me the chance to explore the sets. I ended up not making the buy for financial reasons, coupled with the fact that I wouldn't have a chance to play that often. But had netrunnerdb not been there, it wouldn't have been a question at all.

This move will make me reconsider purchasing the game in the future, which I was planning on doing. If FFG isn't going to embrace the fan community, I don't think I want to be a part of it.

[–]BlueSapphyre 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was wondering when this would happen, sadly. This has been my favourite site to deck build on, super sleek design and really user friendly.

[–]sabreo001 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Incredibly disappointing news. Haven't been using the deck builder that long, to be honest, but I found it clean and streamlined, easy-to-use, and was nice to be able to compile ideas for future decks.

Right, must pen a message to FFG. Are people marking PR, Customer Support, or General Fantasy Flight as the department?

[–]IntrovertedPendulum 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to the memo with /u/12inchrecord, I'm using Customer Support.

[–]unclescroogespoo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It might be worth going to Twitter as well, especially since Lukas and other FFG folks are fairly active there. FFG's main Twitter mage is @ffgames, Lukas Litzsinger is @RukasuFox, and Ian, an FFG marketer is @IanBirdsall.

[–]alexbaha 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is very disappointing. I wrote to FFG to express myself. Thank you for allowing us to quickly download all of our decks. They merge well with this other crappy site we are forced to use.

[–]indigochill 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I was FFG, I'd just buy NRDB and replace CGDB with it.

[–]Magic_Marmalade 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder how many people are going to leave over this? Will this cause a mass exodus of Netrunner fans, or will we all develop Stockholm Syndrome and wind up like abused Games Workshop fans?

Regardless of what happens I want to thank you for making one of the best Netrunner decksites around. Thanks Alsciende, for helping build our community up.

[–]azraelng 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FFG has forums too, should we expect Reddit get a C&D to shut down this subreddit?

[–]WillingdoneNetrunner with Willingdone 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is very disheartening to the say least, but I don't think that vitriol and bashing CardgameDB is the right community response.

I'm concerned that one of the few true hubs in Netrunner is going to be removed. A big problem for our community is that we do not have one centralized location. Some of us discuss here on Reddit while others on BBG etc, but NetrunnerDB is the main site for decklists. Where Stimhack offers tournament results, NetrunnerDB offers a constant stream of community created decks. This is a resource that is widely used and widely read. It's a binding agent for our fractured community. I worry that with its removal, users will scatter to the various other sites.

[–]mindguru88Sterling & Friends 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This in incredibly sad news! :( What's even more sad, though, is how many of the deckbuilder apps will have to adjust or stop, as well. Many of these apps use exported image and data files from NetrunnerDB for their card info. Incredibly depressing...

[–]Sparkling_BeverageBuilding Better Worlds? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's total bullshit.

[–]faswichThis ICE sucks 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I defaulted to netrunnerdb as it provided a clean, neat interface that was consistent on both my main computer and on my phone, with new features being implemented all the time, coupled with the fact that the dev actively responded to concerns here on this sub.

That being said, between hosting images, providing its own API, as well as exporting deck lists in a multitude of formatting, say what you will, it is/was a focal point for use in unsanctioned online play, whether it be OCTGN or jinteki.net or the next dark net iteration. Between the XCOM boardgame, and the QR codes on the new datapacks, I am not really surprised the FFG is in the difficult position of trying to reign in its control of its products online.

And now, all I can say is that my draw to the LCG format was deckbuilding, my draw to ANR specifically the theme/mechanics/community. I may not preorder the data packs, yet I own every ANR product, including multiples of specific sets. Up until yesterday, I was extremely excited about purchasing First Contact, using netrunnerdb to build the shell of a few decks, some of which were already done, and getting out to store leagues during the next few weeks. Now, not so much.

EDIT: I really wish there is a solution that would keep netrunnerdb/meteor/ono-sendai/(any other site) up, and not liable to C&D letters. All these sites make the entire experience of the game better, at least providing services that are desired/lacking elsewhere.

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're right, maybe I've been a little over-enthusiastic _. But apart from the API, which is nothing more than a facilitator, all this is provided by cardgamedb.com anyway. What does it matter if another site offers the same features?

[–]faswichThis ICE sucks 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If anyone calls you over-enthusiastic, consider that a good chunk of the online community/discussion thanks you for it.

And holy shit, checking right now, while I can get to the ffgapp.com/qr/ADN__/ images for a set on my phone, it bounces to cardgamedb if I use my PC's browser. And not even to the set I saw trying to view, like ADN01 for the core, or ADN17 for spaces between, but to their index for the site.

I get why they might want to try to do this, but god damn, this just reeks of "we are finally trying to be the online, main source for our community, but going about it all wrong". If your site and all the others go down, I would rather code my own completely text based, offline deck builder that I would manually update, then use cardgamedb (sorry to anyone who uses the site, people at FFG, in stark contrast, cardgame is just stuck in a previous decade of web design, and it is more intuitive/less frustrating for me to code then to use that site).

In all honesty, FFG should have an official site with a goto API, and is updated better/faster then any in the community. I pretty much use Magic's gatherer.wizards.com as the benchmark, and how useful third party sites, programs from MtG Familiar on android, to various deckbuilders/websites/scripts people develop to make the MtG community what it is.

As you said, I personally think it doesn't matter if another website provides the same features, it is a matter of available resources where they should have the ability to be at the vanguard of what features are being implemented, and hiring/consulting folks from the community to improve. I don't know, this is just a weird funk I am in, seeing as I can view what your website does, how it functions, compare it to cardgamedb, and for the sack of reigning in IP, alienating all the users that were using the site, and flat out dismissing all the contributions that a select few members of the community did to improve ANR's presence online.

Seriously, I personally feel you should be working as a contractor/consulting for FFG, and that they should be paying your server fees. Then again, your site was a breath of fresh air, due to its consistent design/features across platforms.

[–]shiki88Silhouette 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why can't NRDB provide watermarked/B&W/removed images of the cards? I'd rather have ugly or even no card images than play the game without NRDB at all.

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It can. If that's what FFG want, I'll do it.

[–]squogfloogle 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll personally draw you each and every card if it'll help!

[–]AlsciendeOwner of NetrunnerDB 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Aowww that's sweet!

[–]shiki88Silhouette 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This gives me hope. Thanks for your continued efforts. Hopefully FFG will relent.

[–]pbrand 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well this certainly put a damper on my day.

[–]timmymayes 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can anyone point me to a tutorial on how to mirror netrunner db locally on my machine via the github?

https://github.com/Alsciende/netrunnerdb

At least this way I can maintain some form of a deckbuilder for what I own since I likely won't purchase anymore datapacks or expansions.

[–]monkeysaurus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I just did this tonight, and although I did get it up and running, it's pretty fiddly. Unless you have access to a web developer, I would say you're gonna have a bad time.

[–]devvie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can the process be improved? Send a pull request.

[–]monkeysaurus 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not the process as described on the page - that worked well! It's all the stuff that pops up in any site move that you need a bit of experience to debug. Often it's things that are down to the hosting environment. In my case, I came up against things like:

  • I had to upgrade to PHP 5.4
  • I didn't have the php-intl extension installed
  • Paths to images / css / js were wrong because I was hosting in a subdirectory
  • Permissions needed to be tweaked for my server
  • The card database dump didn't import properly because it tried to introduce a foreign key on a table that already existed
  • I had to write a script to download images from the API

It's hard to generalise that stuff into a tutorial, hence my original point - if you don't have *amp set up, if you don't have experience, there's going to be a very sharp learning curve.

[–]guruguju 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have purchased every netrunner expansion and will stop completely if netrunner.db gets shut down. I do not do much of my own deck building and the main draw of this game for me is the many creative decks I can find on netrunnerdb.com. If this is the way FFG chooses to treat its super fans who are enhancing the community and not making ANY money off of FFG intellectual property, I will spend my money on a company that supports them instead. This is major BAD PUBLICITY waiting to happen. I will share the news far and wide and I will save a ton of money by not purchasing any FFG product ever again. I was planning on purchasing all Warhammer Conquest, Lord of The Rings LCG, and Netrunner cards, as well as many FFG board games. It's your move FFG. Either reach a compromise with netrunnerdb or I will cease any and all future purchases with you. I am not alone.

[–]12inchrecordOCTGN: victorb 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

At first I thought this was "cardgamedb" and I was all like "noooooooooooo"... I love building on there and exporting to OCTGN//Text... But now that I know that it is Netrunnerdb I'm still disappointed (although it doesn't affect me as much)...

I really liked Netrunnerdb's feature about looking for all the decks that had a certain card in it.. If you had an ID and a card that you wanted to work around, you could filter through both of them fairly easily and get some inspiration from dozens of pre-existing decks.

Strange move FFG. I wonder if there is more behind it.

[–]franzee 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

well, they bought Cardgamedb, so maybe because of that.

But it's a crappy builder.

[–]Horse625NEXT Design 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I would think that this is a move that would be made by a company that plans to launch its own new database/deckbuilding website.

[–]BlueSapphyre 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

They already own cardgamedb.

[–]Horse625NEXT Design 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Then they want to increase traffic on their own site.

[–]BerrrGo on, run the server, you know you want to ;) 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If only their site wasn't measurably inferior :(

[–]Horse625NEXT Design -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Haven't used it. Or netrunnerdb, for that matter. I like to have everything laid out on the table in front of me when I'm building a deck. Although it is nice in the middle of an OCTGN game to be able to go look up the text on a censored card.

[–]BlueSapphyre -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it sucks because I used NRDB to pull uncensored images into OCTGN.

[–]bullseyetm@bullseyetm or bullseyetm on OCTGN 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess this means the integration of cardgamedb into FFG's website is right around the corner.

[–]turkey_berzerkyTaggin' Dragon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't bet on it. That looks like a lot of work, and their web development team seems to be short-staffed and/or incompetent.

[–]AsteriskCGY 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Will shoot that was a great place to net deck from.

[–]Nuk7uk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Anyone else is ok with this, as long as they improve the cardgamedb resources?

[–]Sparkling_BeverageBuilding Better Worlds? 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really. The right thing to do would have been to improve CardGameDB and let the community decide which site was better and which to use. By issuing the C&D they are forcing out the competition and limiting our choice as consumers. We will have to use FFG's less appealing product. This behavior is nothing new. The cable companies have been playing these games for years, buying out competitors, limiting municipal broadband, etc.

[–]saetzeroBMO Chop! -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I prefer the CardGameDB editor anyway. I get lag using NetrunnerDB in my browser and I know the cards well enough where an easy type-to-search option is what I prefer. That said it needs to be easier for people who like to search, though I personally think it is easy to navigate. Like stupid easy.

Just me though. NetrunnrDB is alright and I see the appeal, but I only used it when CardGameDB was down. CardGameDB is the way I want it to be. ~_~

[–]azraelng 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I prefer CardGameDB as well but there are a lot of people who prefer other sites for various reasons.

I don't think the issue boils down to which is the superior site however, the real issue is that by shrinking the space in which the community can exist, FFG will shrink the community and that's bad for the game.