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Haters gonna hate. (themanicpixienightmaregirl.tumblr.com)
NightmareGirls が 1 時間 前 投稿
[–]ScaredDickless [非表示スコア] 30 分 前 (0子コメント)
You can't hate an entire group of people based on the actions of a few.
Hate assholes, not cis people. Those guys were both male and white. Would you say you hate all white people or all men?
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 1 時間 前 (5子コメント)
Oh come on now. No one's telling you (or at least no one should be telling you) not to resist or do everything in your power to fight violence and bigotry. But cis people are not the problem, bigots are the problem (or in many cases, simple ignorance).
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 54 分 前* (4子コメント)
So after facing injustice at ever turn (from cis people) we are not allowed to hate cis people for even one day? Not only are minorities oppressed but we're supposed to take it with a smile on our face. So why don't you come on now.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 45 分 前 (3子コメント)
So after facing injustice at ever turn (from cis people) we are not allowed to hate cis people for even one day?
The short answer is no, we aren't. The slightly longer answer is that we do not face hatred from all or even most cis people, and that people no more choose to be cis than we choose to be trans. If we want to say - rightly, I think - that people shouldn't hate us for the mere quality of being trans, it would be quite hypocritical to hate others for the mere quality of being cis.
Not only are minorities oppressed but we're supposed to take it with a smile on our face.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I support - and do myself - fight bigotry wherever I see it, and I would never say just shrug it off. But saying "fuck you all" isn't really the best way to win hearts and minds.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 41 分 前 (2子コメント)
After getting fired form by a cissexist the last thing I care about is "winning the hearts and minds" I didn't know what was a requirement of being a minority, winning over haters.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 37 分 前 (0子コメント)
After getting fired form by a cissexist the last thing I care about is "winning the hearts and minds"
Why on earth not? That's how we change things so that that doesn't happen to you, or others, as often (and hopefully, eventually not at all).
I didn't know what was a requirement of being a minority, winning over haters.
Again, stop putting words in my mouth. It's not a requirement of being trans, but it is both the smart and the right thing to do.
[–]2Weird2Live2Rare2Die [非表示スコア] 7 分 前 (0子コメント)
Not hating an entire demographic for the actions of some of its members is not a requirement of being a minority, it's a requirement of being a decent human being.
[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] 55 分 前 (12子コメント)
What the fuck? Of all the people, A member of the LGBT community should know better than to hate and generalize.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 52 分 前 (11子コメント)
So we're not allowed to hate our haters even for one day, one split second?
[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] 49 分 前 (10子コメント)
Haters? sure, but don't blame cis people as a whole.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 46 分 前 (9子コメント)
So as long as I don't name the class of folks who are doing the oppressing? Not all cis people! Not all white people! Not all men! Not all rich people! Not all cops!
I could have gotten killed but transphobes but I'm the bad guy for letting transphobia anger me too much, makes sense.
[–]glowiestars [非表示スコア] 28 分 前 (1子コメント)
It's entirely acceptable to be angry at transphobia. What isn't ok is lumping them all together, and then being angry at that lump. There are a lot of cis people out there in the world, and saying that you hate all of them isn't ok.
Now I'm not saying the way that they treated you is acceptable because it isnt; it's simply horrid, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
[–]lockedgeTransgender [非表示スコア] 2 分 前 (0子コメント)
I agree that it's not really okay (even if understandable) or helpful in lumping everyone together. That said, in a similar situation, I've said stuff like:
"I hate transphobes. And all the transphobes I've encountered are cis. If you're cis, and you consider me a friend, don't let transphobia slide. What's a few seconds of a less than comfortable rebuke to maybe keep a few more people from being openly transphobic assholes for a while?"
That way, I'm not complaining about cis folk as a group, but instead complaining about people who make my life worse, and placing proper responsibility on the shoulders of my supporters to help me out with that when applicable
There's certainly a time and place to interrogate classes such as cis, but online, while ranting to friends and family who likely don't understand the intricacies (and likely don't wish to) probably isn't the best way to go about that.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 27 分 前 (0子コメント)
Not all cis people! Not all white people! Not all men! Not all rich people! Not all cops!
Yes. Exactly this. Attack the people who do it, and maybe those complicit in it, but not people totally unrelated to the issue.
[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] 19 分 前* (3子コメント)
I think everyone here agrees transphobia is bad and so are transphobes. What those people said was disgusting. Blame transphobes, not cis people.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 15 分 前 (2子コメント)
Okay, well every transphobe is cis... i mean unless its a trans person with Stockholm syndrome.
[–]coffeehouse11 [非表示スコア] 8 分 前 (0子コメント)
every transphobe is cis... i mean unless its a trans person with Stockholm syndrome.
or... you know, someone who is trying to deny that they are trans? That sort of thing happens all the time in the LGBTQ+ community.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 6 分 前 (0子コメント)
Or someone who doesn't know they're trans yet, or was raised with those views and hasn't gotten past them yet. I'm trans myself and was an avid Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh listener at one point. People can and do change their minds.
[–]candlefox [非表示スコア] 23 分 前 (1子コメント)
No one has the right to take your anger away from you. I understand what people are saying - of course not all cis people are bad - but I hate this idea that this burden of holding that pain in and making sure people aren't uncomfortable is placed on the oppressed, not the oppressors. These are institutional problems, societal problems, NOT just individual ones. We should be allowed to, as you put it, name the class of people who are doing the oppressing. Everyone is a part of it, everyone is responsible for allowing or not allowing bigotry to continue. Things haven't gotten so much better yet that we are have the luxury of assuming any one person we meet is NOT transphobic, to do so is still DANGEROUS. But that constant burden doesn't warrant one day of hating cis people? Ridiculous.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 18 分 前 (0子コメント)
We should be allowed to, as you put it, name the class of people who are doing the oppressing.
Cis people are not, by their nature or actions, necessarily oppressive. A particular subset of people, most but not all of whom are cis, are.
Everyone is a part of it, everyone is responsible for allowing or not allowing bigotry to continue.
That's crap. There are plenty of problems in the world and no single individual can be expected to constantly address all of them. Moreover, there are tons of cis people who actively support us and fight hard for our rights.
Things haven't gotten so much better yet that we are have the luxury of assuming any one person we meet is NOT transphobic, to do so is still DANGEROUS.
In some very limited contexts, yes. But a debate on the internet is not one of those contexts. You are in no physical danger by not assuming that someone online hates you. There are times when I'll set aside activism for safety, sure, but that's hardly always or even usually necessary.
But that constant burden doesn't warrant one day of hating cis people? Ridiculous.
Cis people are not, by nature of being cis, responsible for the problems that we face. You're writing off more than 99% of the human population as hate-worthy for purely how they were born.
[–]zebragrrlTransgender Woman [非表示スコア] 23 分 前 (5子コメント)
When black people in the 60's and 70's started talking about "hating white people".. their message was lost. When Feminists loudly decried that they "hated men" they too lost their message.
You just can't. You can't give 'them' the ammunition. And when you sit there and say 'I hate cis people" you hand the haters a whole crate full.
We're allowed to hate our haters. But we shouldn't paint with a broad brush.. particularly when everyone is so quick to attack any sign of indiscretion.
Yes.. you're entitled to be upset at mistreatment at the hands of cis people, yes, you're entitled to be upset. You're actually even entitled TO be upset at every single cisgender person who ever lived. But you're probably going to be rebuked for posting that position in public.
When you say "cis people" you're in effect saying "every cis person ever", and you're playing into the game that the haters are just itching for you to play.
It's frustrating, but we need to guard our word choices... yes, even when we're hurting and angry. And when we're the most pissed off, is probably when we should avoid even bringing the word 'cis' into the discussion.
Imagine how less loaded the comment would have been, had it just been "I really hate people today".
Is it fair? Yes and no. If a cis person had just been on a date and found out their love interest was transgender.. and they expressed their shock, repulsion, whatever using phrases like "I hate trans people".. Or if they got hit on by a gay guy and they were straight, and they said "I hate gays"... in an ideal world, people would pick that person's words apart too.
Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world, and the majority of voices are still bigoted, ignorant, or indifferent to the underdogs.
But we do live in a world that is changing. Where an owner of an NBA basketball team can have his ownership wrested from him, and the team sold out from under him, because he used racial epithets... in what he thought was privacy.
Whether that's a good or bad development in terms of privacy rights is another discussion.. but the world has changed to the point where people will stand up against someone who talks like that... so long as their opinion is a minority one. (Overt White-v-Black racism has become a minority position, and is not tolerated by the majority).
Perhaps, so too one day, shall be Cis-v-Trans disparaging remarks. But for now, Trans-v-Cis is the minority position... and more people won't tolerate it, than will.
Regardless, just like the "I hate White People" or "I hate men" messages slowed or halted progress for the Civil Rights and Equal Rights movements, the Trans-v-Cis message really does derail the message of "Society should treat us like normal people, and recognize that we have a right to exist" message.
I do think that the "shouting into the wind" need is important.. but putting it in places where people can respond directly to you, only invites the hate mail. And the way internet activism seems to work these days, anyone with an ounce of visibility, if they post one thing wrong, will garner a whole campaign of hate mail warriors.
There was a project on Tumblr called "dearcispeople" which let trans people post anonymous 'shouts' at the wind. I'm not sure if it's still a going concern, as last I checked, it was being taken over by some "artivisim" thing.
http://dearcispeople.tumblr.com/
-- sorry for the wall of text.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 21 分 前 (4子コメント)
i stopped reading after you said feminists hate men.
[–]Chel_of_the_sea [非表示スコア] 16 分 前 (0子コメント)
They didn't say that. They said that people who said that sapped their movement of political momentum, which is true.
[–]zebragrrlTransgender Woman [非表示スコア] 18 分 前 (2子コメント)
Ok. Ignore the message for the words I used. Makes sense.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 17 分 前 (1子コメント)
well you started off with bullshit, feminists don't hate men.
[–]zebragrrlTransgender Woman [非表示スコア] 14 分 前 (0子コメント)
I never said they did. I said that in the 70's there was a side message where some radical feminists decried loudly that they hated men. How many times (it's an old trope, but true enough) have we seen a girl, pissed off at her annoying boyfriend slam down the phone saying "I hate boys!".
The entire point of bringing up those side messages, was that they DISTRACT and DERAIL the main message of tolerance and equal rights and treatment.
Obviously not all black people hate white people, not all feminists hate men. (though I'd wager even 50 years later, some do.) Just as not all men hate women, and not all cis people hate trans people. Not all trans people hate cis people either.
[–]transcience [非表示スコア] 8 分 前 (1子コメント)
It's OK...Allow yourself a little hate... Hatred is not so bad, when directed at injustice...
However, unfocussed hatred is unproductive and ultimately chaotically destructive.
Hence the saying: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.
Cisgender people are not the enemy.
Ignorance is the enemy. And those who spout it and those who are encapsulated by it.
There are ignorant transgender people and there are ignorant cisgender people.
Direct all that anger and hate and turn it into something productive.
Hate ignorance. Fight ignorance. Win.
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] 5 分 前 (0子コメント)
yeah not all cis people!
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[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] (12子コメント)
[–]NightmareGirls[S] [非表示スコア] (11子コメント)
[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] (10子コメント)
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[–]UpinflamesJamesMen are made, not born. [非表示スコア] (3子コメント)
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