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What does it mean to be a Proud Short Man?Heightism & Dating (self.short)

GeoffreyArnoldProud Short Man が 投稿

A recent thread touched on the issue of what it means to be proud of ones short stature. Or, more broadly speaking, what does it mean to be anti-heightist? Well, I submit that the answer to this question helps to explain why heightism is such a difficult prejudice to tackle directly.

It's easy for everyone to agree that heightism is wrong when applied for the benefit of people who are taller than you. That is, the unjustified social privileges extended to those who are taller than you just "feels" wrong; apart from the actual substantive arguments which prove that the social privilege is wrong. However, it takes a much greater dose of moral courage and fortitude to also oppose the unjustified social privileges extended TO YOU (even as a short man) over those who are even shorter than you.

In other words, everyone is against heightism when it puts us at a disadvantage, but then we support heightism when it puts us at an advantage over those who are shorter than us.

A true proud short man, or a person with an anti-heightist mindset of any height or gender, would oppose the structural social inequities inherent in the pervasive social construct which celebrates height privilege. That is, our society celebrates the idea that taller people are intrinsically superior to shorter people, and we should oppose all instances of that idea. EVEN WHEN WE BENEFIT FROM IT.

The anti-heightist mindset requires us to humble ourselves and realize that we are no better than people who are shorter than us and are no worse than those who are taller. A proud short man does not follow the rules of a game designed to create hierarchical benefits for individuals based on their height. A proud short man does not recognize any such social privilege as legitimate, and we do not accept any such social privilege for ourselves.

This, I think, is the reason why even so many short men are offended by the idea that short men should lie about their height when it comes to online dating. It's not offensive because it challenges the height hierarchy in terms of guys who are taller than you. It's offensive because it takes away some of the social privileges you have over guys who are shorter than you.

When shorter guys lie about their height in an online dating scenario, they put you in a worse position and so that makes some of you angry. But here's the kicker. That is a social privilege that you didn't earn. It's illegitimate and you're not entitled to any of it. A proud short man would be more concerned with dismantling a corrupt system than he would be concerned about losing some of his own illegitimate social privileges.

Please discuss.

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[–]mike5f45'4" | 162 cm 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The anti-heightist mindset requires us to humble ourselves and realize that we are no better than people who are shorter than us

This is the true test of fighting heightism and why this struggle is harder than any of the others ever fought. Heightism is so ingrained in society that even us shorter people tend to have an instant feeling of superiority when we see someone shorter.

Even though we understand and hate heightism, it has been ingrained in us through out our lives, and is a hard habit to break away from.

[–]Ser_devon_blackHouse Black | Black Bannerman of stoutfort 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's also important not to be overhumble to our "superior overlords" a lot of short people throw their brethren under the buss for the approval of non short people and also reject the idea of heighism, fighting against it.

I think the biggest suppressors in the fight against heightism are some short men, and a big group of women.

[–]GeoffreyArnoldProud Short Man[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

This is the true test of fighting heightism and why this struggle is harder than any of the others ever fought. Heightism is so ingrained in society that even us shorter people tend to have an instant feeling of superiority when we see someone shorter.

Exactly. It's a very hard prejudice to overcome (as you can tell by all of the downvotes).

[–]slackforce5'5" 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're being downvoted because your argument is idiotic and condescending, not because we're all hypocritically and unconsciously heightist.

[–]HelloDownThere6'11'' -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're being downvoted on a short forum. Are the short people downvoting you prejudiced against themselves?

[–]VaguerCrusader 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

the short people who are downvoting don't want to rock the current status quo

[–]GeoffreyArnoldProud Short Man[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes. Essentially. Read my argument. Self hate is a big problem. Some people here are still working on "acceptance", forget about pride.

[–]trulygenericname~0.001 miles 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The mental gymnastics here are just hilarious.

our society celebrates the idea that taller people are intrinsically superior to shorter people, and we should oppose all instances of that idea. EVEN WHEN WE BENEFIT FROM IT

Let's apply this about lying about your height (upward)

Lying about height relies on and reinforces the belief that tall people are better than short people, only for personal benefit.

A proud short man does not follow the rules of a game designed to create hierarchical benefits for individuals based on their height.

Rules of the game imply that you benefit from being taller. Lying about height is just following those rules by being "taller" in a certain situation.

A proud short man does not recognize any such social privilege as legitimate, and we do not accept any such social privilege for ourselves.

Lying about height is an attempt to claim that illegitimate social privilege.

offensive because it takes away some of the social privileges you have over guys who are shorter than you

Again, lying about your height does not make you "lose privilege." If anything, lying about height extends your "privilege" over people who don't play into a system that values height.

Basically, lying about height makes you a "Garmin." By lying about height, you're complicit in the belief that being short is bad, and just being that one guy who is saying "Look at me! I'm a good short person. I want to be tall just like you!"

[–]BruceWayne93"My height was not my parents' fault, it was mine." 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish I could give you triple upvotes!

[–]slippyclippy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't like the word 'proud.' I like to think that I am a short man who is trying to accept his height and just live with it.

[–]GeoffreyArnoldProud Short Man[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a good first step. But I've moved past acceptance into pride.

[–]currymonger5'4" 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Way to preach guy who never gives us his height.

[–]JohnGM5'0" | 152cm | USA -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He's explained the reason he doesn't list his height multiple times. It's really not a big deal that he doesn't.

[–]currymonger5'4" 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That credibility doe...

[–]JohnGM5'0" | 152cm | USA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's been discussing heightism online since well before Reddit was even a thing. I'd say his credibility on that subject is pretty good.

As for the topic of this post... I think both sides have pretty good arguments. It's just going to come down to what a person is comfortable doing in online dating.

[–]ass1776 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I didn't post in the other thread about lying about your height, but for many years I did lie about my height. Until recently, I thought I was 5'3" when I am actually 5'5". What we tell ourselves is that people are upset with our dishonesty when we lie about our heights, but for years I lied and said I was 2 inches shorter. Nobody ever called me a liar or said that I was taller than I'd claimed. It was a non-issue, it never came up.

People get upset when guys add inches because each inch represents social value. It's not that you are dishonest that people are upset with - I was taller than I claimed and nobody ever became upset - it's that you don't have as much social value as they would like. People know to lower or raise their expectations of you based on your height.

I don't lie about my height, but this is why I think it's okay - because basing social value on a physical trait is beyond fucked up. I have experienced firsthand that it is not the lie that matters but the expectation of social value derived from height. People are going to be attracted to whatever they want, and that's fine, but I also think we should eliminate the cultural and social values we imbue into height, and if lying about your height in order to subvert a fucked up social system is one way you choose to do it, then good for you.

[–]GeoffreyArnoldProud Short Man[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People get upset when guys add inches because each inch represents social value. It's not that you are dishonest that people are upset with - I was taller than I claimed and nobody ever became upset - it's that you don't have as much social value as they would like. People know to lower or raise their expectations of you based on your height.

I agree. That is the other side of the coin to what I'm talking about. Women are upset for this reason. But other short men and taller men are mad at the advice because it takes away some of their social privilege over even shorter men.

[–]jm4345'4" | 162 cm | PhD Student -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I completely agree with you on this Geoffrey. Though personally I wouldn't call myself a proud short man, but a proud human, as I extend your thinking to all aspects of our species, be it gender, orientation, skin colour or ethnicity.

[–]BruceWayne93"My height was not my parents' fault, it was mine." -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously, are you high?

Please discuss.

Sorry brah, didn't even read.