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Scotland votes to remain in the U.K. (cir.ca)
tricky5903 が 13 時間 前 投稿
残りのコメントをみる →
[–]BARK_BARK_BARK_BARK 251 ポイント252 ポイント253 ポイント 10 時間 前* (254子コメント)
Just like Americans claim to be German/Italian/French/whatever because their great-great-great-great-(...)-grandfather immigrated from there. Edit: Clarification, there's nothing to say against adopting the culture of your mother/father, it's the completely ridiculous "I'm Scottish because my ancestor came from there to America 200 years ago" that bugs me. Also, lol at Americans mass-downvoting me.
[–]who-you 788 ポイント789 ポイント790 ポイント 9 時間 前 (109子コメント)
this is what pisses me off the most. It's ignorant. We're a nation of immigrants. You all think when we say we're Irish, Italian, English, etc. etc that we actually believe we're exactly like the Irish, Italian, English, etc.
It's a heritage, not a nationality. We don't actually think we're Irish. We hold roots in where our family came from because it's a distinguishing feature. Americans first and foremost consider themselves as American, but we also identify with our heritage.
You all get so fucking distraught over an American saying "well I'm 50% Italian" because you refused to understand what we mean by that.
[–]bmw120k 191 ポイント192 ポイント193 ポイント 8 時間 前 (41子コメント)
Exactly. It is hilarious how much Americans get shit on all over forums for being culturally and historically idiotic, but these kind of comments appear all the time and have a shit ton of upvotes. People keep commenting how if you do not follow any customs, then how can you call yourself X. The concept that identifying with your heritage is typically just a knowledge aspect, though many do practice some customs/culture of their heritage. That is part of American culture.
Hell, I am mostly Scottish ironically enough and don't feel my opinion is relevant to the independence vote because of it. As an American and a student of international relations I can hold an opinion, but the Scottish in me isnt reflected in it.
Funny enough though, people who talk about not holding the same culture as their "heritage" also seem to forget that for people who have grown up in major cities a majority of cultural aspects can be homogeneous across Western countries. The difference in the daily life between me in New Jersey and a kid in London or Berlin could be as minor varied from me and a kid in California. Those differences would likely be from modern socio-political and economic constructs and not deep cultural heritage influences too.
[–]Fatallis 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's one of those things people just won't understand regardless of how blue in the face you are. It doesn't help people love to hate Americans and think most of us are the most ignorant ass wipes on the planet.
[–]sp0ck06 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
It is hilarious how much Americans get shit on all over forums for being culturally and historically idiotic
I agree. America is the most multicultural nation in the world, by far. Other people shit on us for being dumb and ignorant, yet I guarantee I've had more exposure to different cultures growing up in New York City than most people in the world have in their entire lives.
[–]bmw120k -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 16 分 前 (0子コメント)
Yup! I don't get all the hate everyone "being Irish" on St. Paddys day gets on Reddit. We recognize the numerous contributions they made to this country and want to celebrate them together with a giant party day. I am half waiting for someone to bitch about American craft breweries making Oktoberfest beers in the fall because it is not in Germany and the brewmaster doesn't hold a German passport.
[–]coordi 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Right? How god damn American is it to ask someone if they've got a little Scottish in them and when they say no, you ask if they'd like a little with all the sexual implications that you god damn well mean. Merca!
[+]phenomenos スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 5 時間 前 (19子コメント)
My question is: how come it's always "I'm Irish" or "I'm Italian" and never "I'm British/English"? You guys had a war of independence against us, there must be some of you with British ancestry! Do they just willingly forget it because of the war?
[–]krp31489 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 4 時間 前 (7子コメント)
It's most likely because so much English, Scottish, Welsh, Scotch-Irish immigration occurred very early in American history and at this point many of those people have completely lost touch with their roots and just identify as Americans. I imagine over time the same will happen with other groups, but Italians and Poles only started arriving in the early 20th century so those groups aren't as far removed from their homeland and are more likely to identify their ancestral homeland.
[–]Ahesterd 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 4 時間 前 (4子コメント)
This is the biggest part of it - sure, there's plenty of people who do have those English roots, but the majority of English immigration happened in the 16- and 1700s, giving it a good 300 years to go away - and the conditions they came to in America were far different, as well. Meanwhile, the Germans, Irish, Italians, etc who came to America in the 1800s or 1900s typically faced racism from the established "Americans" and as a result clung to that heritage of where they were from, passing it down to their children.
[–]krp31489 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Plus they lived in enclaves, my mom's background is 100% Irish, yet her family arrived in the U.S. in the 1840s, we've been living here for 7 generations and it wasn't until my mom's generation that they married individuals from other backgrounds because they were living in such homogeneous communities.
[–]who-you -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 25 分 前 (2子コメント)
Eh if people ask I consider myself English; the english side of my family came on the boat after the mayflower which is pretty cool.
[–]AIUPost -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 分 前 (1子コメント)
No, you're American.
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント たった今 (0子コメント)
god you are an idiot
[–]Gustav__Mahler 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Don't forget the Germans.
[–]krp31489 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Germans are unique in that they have had consistent immigration since before the American Revolution up until the mid 20th century, very similar to the Irish, which probably accounts for the very large percentage of Americans who claim both backgrounds.
[–]its_real_I_swear 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm 25% English
[–]IanCurtisJackson 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Many, many, many Americans identify as English . . . you just don't know what you're talking about.
[–]Bloodysneeze 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I know a few. They're just seem to be more rare. You'd probably see more in the New England area but I'm from a region that was heavily settled by German/Dutch/Danish.
[–]Leftberg 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I had a grandfather who stowed away from England, and I say he was Welsh for some reason. I guess his name was Welsh-ish. Interesting...you might be on to something.
[–]Athurio 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think it's because most white Americans have British ancestry in common, so we often look to other parts of our heritage to differentiate ourselves from one another. You know, special snowflakes and whatnot.
[–]inkyvenus 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm the child of two English parents, the first member of the first generation born off English soil. I ID myself as English when involved in one of these discussions that pop up with fellow North Americans re: what are you/where are you from. I also recognize that for whatever reason, certain countries are considered 'cooler' to be from and England is not one of them.
[–]CompositeGNFNR 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Because for example pre WWI 50-70 percent of Americans had German heritage. There aren't actually that many people with English heritage.
[–]RandallClark 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
English seems to be the third or fourth most predominant ancestor for white Americans. Some sources I looked at show more people in the US identified having English Heritage than people in England. It might just be like how most English people now identify as British the majority of English settlers identified as American very quickly.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's actually the most common ancestry, it's just under reported.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Nope, demographers agree that English is the most common ancestry.
[–]billbill007 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I hate when people go on a dv spree fo no reason. Or maybe us americans like to keep our independence a secret now a days idunno, bucha dum bitches ill ya haway. Yall can dpwnvote this I go on here like once a week and your silly internet points dont phase me I just feel bad for the other people woth the inoccent questions... I was actually trying to found out a moth or two ago if I had any english ancestry. My mothers great great great great great grest great someone came from poland and met some irish people and they made a buncha kids then those irsh polish people got with some dutch people and then somewhere along the line they got really weird and theese two cousinss had babies and then those people had babies then some more babies then those people had my mom and she married a 100% italian so im an irish italian pollock and I have no english in me.
[–]ChicagoRunner -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 1 時間 前 (2子コメント)
I disagree with you about the city part. Maybe take more sociology classes with your IR
[–]bmw120k 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 20 分 前 (1子コメント)
Why so? There are so many influences and identities that people associate with in the modern age that cross national boundaries because of the level of interconnection. The differences that make up the daily lives (interactions with school, government etc), as I said, can come from different modern political systems. The culture that makes a major city unique can be relational to its location, but that is easily as varied within the US.
As an example, the awesome art scene in Berlin is certainly a highlight of the culture there. Artists may take influence from German history and make a uniquely German piece of modern art. Someone in the former Antebellum South could produce an equally unique piece of art about their history. These kind of uniquely cultural differences are equally distant to me personally. However, the broad daily occurrences could be uniquely similar. Get up, take the metro to work, read the paper, have lunch with your coworker, meet up with friends after, go to the cinema, have a drink, come home and play a video game (maybe even the same one).
There are of course also broad cultural aspects which don't apply which tend to be more politically oriented. A good example would be gun culture in Texas or protest culture in France. People in both places, however, can hold the views of another. There are plenty of Europeans who like the American outlook on economy and capitalism, while there are plenty of Americans who want a more European style with more days off. Those systems may have emerged from rooted cultural ideas but they have expanded beyond that to integrate with the political systems and economy.
My point on modern cities is, there are so many crossing aspects of culture that this notion of "not adopting your ancestors culture" goes out the window. In any decent modern city you can find food from anywhere on earth. You can listen to music from any genre. You can experience a multitude of cultures within the greater construct of that city's unique culture. The minor differences in attitudes and daily ritual for your average Parisian, which can absolutely be part of the culture, are as different to northern NJ as the daily rituals of someone in the deep South or near the beach in LA. Yes, historical events, in the long run, contributed to the modern culture of those areas. But this plays similarly to the notion of identifying with a heritage in America as the concept of "a nation of immigrants" plays so heavily in our culture. It is less about identifying with the modern culture of the city/nation, and identifying with the historical nature which shaped the uniquely modern American culture by that heritage.
That brings my original point full circle. Just because a French businessman thinks the American capitalist system is better, does that make him American? No. Does it make him any less French? No. People in these comments are confused/laugh at the concept of people identifying with a heritage and not adopting the culture. What does that even entail? Since I claim my heritage is Scottish, do I need to wear a kilt everyday and learn the bagpipes? Only eat haggis?
It is the nuance of "identity" between the American cultural aspect of looking at your heritage and having an understanding of it and the seemingly misinformed view by non-Americans who think we claim to be the same as those people. There is also level of belief in that identity which varies across the entire spectrum from person to person.
[–]ChicagoRunner -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 12 分 前 (0子コメント)
Less is more. To say that there is almost no difference between someone who lives in a city 7000 miles apart from someone else is frankly ridiculous. Are there similarities? Obviously. Were all human living in human society. To say that living in an urban environment is the largest sociocultural factor is simplistic.
Tl:dr: there's a huge fucking difference between camden, new jersey and london.
[–]GoMakeASandwich 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think everyone else is just pissed that our ancestors left their shitty countries and came to freedom land!
[+][削除されました] 4 時間 前* (12子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]its_real_I_swear 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3 時間 前 (7子コメント)
You are wrong. People all over the world do not give a shit about lines on a map regarding their ethnic identities. Or are you going to tell me there are no Kurdish people and no Walloons because nobody was ever born in the countries of Kurdistan or Walloon?
[–]IanCurtisJackson -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Still missing the point entirely. Wow.
[–]yah511 77 ポイント78 ポイント79 ポイント 6 時間 前 (13子コメント)
Yes. They don't understand that nationality and ethnicity are separate. For many people, mostly in the Old World, they happen to be the same but for most Americans they are different. When an American says they are Scottish, that means that their ancestors were originally from Scotland, and that's it. They aren't trying to say they are literally from Scotland. It's just a difference in how Americans use English and how e.g Europeans use English
[–]Threedayslate 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Exactly.
In fact, the separation of nationality from ethnicity and religion is one of the most radical parts of, what Lincoln liked to refer to as, the American experiment. Almost every major moral achievement of this country has come from the further separation of nationality from race, religion, gender, sexual identity, and other inalterable (or in someway fundamental) identities.
[–]marfalight 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yup! Though I have to say, the Latino/Hispanic/Spanish ancestry thing is really muddled for a lot of my compadres. My name is certainly Spanish, but at least one branch of my family is completely mestiza, so lord only knows which native populations are part of my heritage at this point. Good ol' Colonialism.
[–]schowdur 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Also, consider that the Old World have been warring the fuck out of each other since Jesus was around. England has Celtic and Viking ancestry, So does Northern France, the Germans got around a bit etc etc. We are all just a bunch of mongrels when you think about it.
[–]Bowiesinspace -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (9子コメント)
We do understand that, we also understand how to separate the 2. Saying "I'm Scottish" means you're from Scotland in literally every other country in the world
[–]inkyvenus 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前 (4子コメント)
Oh my fucking god. Is there something in the European water that prevents you from understanding that because a phrase means one thing to you that that doesn't preclude it from meaning something slightly different to a person in different circumstances? ALL North Americans understand this, it is how we speak to each other, every single one of us is aware that no one is making any claims to have been born on Irish/Scottish/Italian/German etc. soil.
[–]yah511 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 3 時間 前 (3子コメント)
It's not clear you do, based on your comment. When an American says "I'm Scottish" they are referring to their ethnicity and their ethnicity only. However, people from Europe tend to think that the American who says this is referring to their nationality, or at least that Americans conflate the two, and it's not clear that they understand you can be one without being the other.
Think of it this way: whenever an American describes their ethnicity, there is an implicit "-American" on the end (ex: Scottish-American) that does not need to be stated because obviously that person is American.
[–]Bowiesinspace -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 3 時間 前 (2子コメント)
But do you not stop and wonder why no one else in the world does this? I've got all kinds of shit in my lineage but why would I refer to it when it's been over a hundred years? If I for example said I'm Romany-English I'd get funny looks, because that shit is odd.
I don't think someone who's family have been in a country for several generations can pick and choose what ethnicity they wanna be based on their family tree, it's just bullshit to me
[–]yah511 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 2 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Because there is no dominant ethnic group in the US, unlike many (if not most/all) European countries. Americans are American as their nationality, no one denies that or tried to hide it. However, most Americans are not "American" ethnically because ethnicity refers to where your ancestors are from, not where you are from.
If you would get funny looks for saying you're Romani-English, that's just because that's the culture of England and immigration to England. It's pretty integral to the American experience because the vast majority of people have ancestors who are not from the same place they are, whether they came here in the 1600's or the 2000's. In the development of American culture, with people coming from so many different backgrounds, ethnicity and where your family originally came from became an important part of identity.
(And as a tongue in cheek response, since when have Americans cared that they do things different from the rest of the world)
[–]inkyvenus 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I've had this conversation with Euros so many times that at this point I think it's just a straight-up refusal to accept that there is a different culture, and therefore meaning to these 'where are you from' discussions in North America. I'm Canadian and have the exact same experience as a lot of Americans are describing in this thread. It's a common conversation here. No one thinks anyone else is saying that their nationality is not-Canadian. We all know it's a discussion of where your ancestors lived before coming to the New World.
[–]caden36 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
"Hey what nationality are you."
"I'M 100% FREEDOM!!!" *cue the bald eagles
[–]headless_himerius 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 8 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Yep. And they do it in every thread, too, as if the difference between nationality and ethnicity is some kind of impossibly nuanced idea.
Then it gets massively upvoted by smug Euros and whitewashed Americans who believe that just because they have no cultural ties, no one else should either.
[–]mrcassette -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 6 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Surely the only true Americans are native?
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 29 分 前 (0子コメント)
My family was here during the colonies and before we were even a country. While I'm not Native American I think I could make a case to say I'm actually American.
[–]inkyvenus 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
As a Canadian I have taken exactly the same shit from Europeans a few times. For whatever reason, some of them just cannot get it through their skull that a North American saying "My family is Scottish" (for example) is a statement of heritage. It means: my ancestors are from Scotland. It is not a claim to have been born on Scottish soil. It is not a refutation of our primary identity (as Canadian or American). I am Canadian. I am also 'English'. I was born and live in Canada. My ancestors are all buried in English churchyards. The North American experience is fundamentally different from the European one in this way, there is for a vast majority of us a primary connection to the country we were born in AND a secondary, but still important, connection to the country of our forebears.
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 19 分 前 (0子コメント)
I agree. I don't understand why it's so hard for them to distinguish between nationality and ethnicity. For many I feel like they don't want to understand. They just want to sit and laugh at the "dumb american" with their friends.
[–]Chickens1 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
True, true. I've always felt an affintiy for the Scots because of my ancestry, but I'm damn glad to be an American in real life.
Especially after this vote.
[–]butterhoscotch 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think europeans get annoyed with americans vacationing over there and claiming heritage, claiming to be irish or what not.
[–]NoceboHadal 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's not ignorance it's just funny. Imagine the reverse "i'm half Wisconsin on my mothers side" now there is nothing wrong with that, but don't tell me it wouldn't seem odd if you grew up in new York surrounded by people from Wisconsin to suddenly find a guy from Mexico saying "ahh us cheese heads"
Again there is nothing wrong with this, but you're going to ask "aren't you Mexican?" And then get the reply "I am! But i'm a proud cheese head" you're going think that it's odd.
[–]Perm_Coupon 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
I think it has more to do with Marco, the dude wearing all Kappa and a greased head of hair, screaming about The Azurri and how Italy is the greatest country ever, when Marco himself has never fucking been to Italy and neither have his parents. That's annoying.
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 43 分 前 (0子コメント)
that's fair.
[–]Inferno221 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 46 分 前 (0子コメント)
We hold roots in where our family came from because it's a distinguishing feature. Americans first and foremost consider themselves as American, but we also identify with our heritage.
http://imgur.com/Q9xcBHO
[–]elmosco 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 30 分 前 (1子コメント)
And yet no one bats an eyelid when someone calls a black person African American. This isn't a semi-racist 'but but BUT black people can do this, why can't we?' post, i'm half-black and I think african american is a shit term, I just think if a black person can say he's african, the Mccrackens can say they're Irish.
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 23 分 前 (0子コメント)
I've found that most younger people call black people black now. There was soma absurd stretch in my childhood where it was pounded into my head that "they're not black, they're african american" and then I think we grew up and realized that was stupid.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
We hold roots in where our family came from because it's a distinguishing feature.
But often it's not distinguishing at all. Someone from generations ago was of another nationality and you latch on to it.
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 36 分 前 (0子コメント)
your looks are heavily influenced by your ancestry.
[–]produktiverhusten 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 3 時間 前 (1子コメント)
It just grates that it's so selective and superficial. People seem to choose a single distant relative of the currently "fashionable" nationality and then cling to that instead of having pride forging their own identity.
A: "Oh I'm Irish/German/Navaho because I had one Great Great Grandparent who came from there."
B: "Oh that's interesting, what about your other 15 Great-Great-Grandparents"?
A: "Wut?"
I would respect it more if people were genuinely interested in their ancestry, and wanted to actually know something about where their relatives came from rather than just once a year participating in some twee, faked-up, commercialized version of who they suddenly think they are.
In that case you really could call it heritage.
I know it's a mainly harmless reflex, but harmful things can come from this kind of half-assed, broadly ignorant nationalism. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing:
Peace in Northern Ireland was severely hampered by the fact that Irish Americans with little to no knowledge of British or Irish politics were continuing to fund extremists when the vast majority of the population including the main former terrorist groups in Northern Ireland were trying to reconcile. I don't think it's a coincidence that 911 had to happen before Americans started realising that children getting blown up in Britain wasn't just some romantic struggle against the redcoats set to a jaunty Irish pipe theme.
edit: missed a couple of words
[–]Bowiesinspace -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
When some American says HEY I'M IRISH you just look like an 11 year old pretending theyre old enough to shave
[–]who-you 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 41 分 前 (0子コメント)
again, you're ignorant. reread my prior comment. it's like you don't want to understand what we mean when we say that.
[–]AirOutlaw7 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
THANK YOU! I tried to explain this the other day on another post about Scottish Independence and was downvoted. Thank you for helping make this clear to our angry European friends.
[–]escalat0r -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (19子コメント)
We don't actually think we're Irish.
Then don't say it, say you have Irish heritage, that's correct. You're American to every real Irishmen.
[–]HilariousScreenname 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 3 時間 前 (18子コメント)
Why? We say it to other Americans, who know what we mean. Why tack on another word? I tell people I'm mostly Irish, with some German, and Polish mixed in. People know what that means.
[+]escalat0r スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 3 時間 前 (17子コメント)
Because you aren't, you're not Irish or German or Polish, you're an American with that heritage. Seems weird that most US-Americans are oh so proud to be from the US and then still like to refer to themselves as non-Americans.
Anyways, this would be laughed/cringed at in Ireland/Germany/Poland probably, you likely don't speak the language or know much about the culture, do you?
[–]HilariousScreenname 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 3 時間 前 (14子コメント)
Right, but you're missing my point. When I tell people here that I'm Irish/German/Polish, they know that I'm speaking of my heritage. Nobody is trying to fool anybody. Like other people have said, everyone here will refer to themselves as American, first and foremost. But when we speak of us being other nationalities, we speak of our family heritage.
We're proud of our heritage, is all. Don't get the problem with that.
[–]thelazt1 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Because we're proud where we come from? What the fuck is wrong with that?!
[–]escalat0r -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Well because noone would really say that you're from Poland/Germany/Ireland just because you had a great-grandfather who was born there.
[–]LogisticalNightmare -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 4 時間 前 (4子コメント)
And other (Old World) countries don't understand how cool it is to be able to ask someone what their heritage is and hear them rattle off a bunch of different nationalities without anybody getting offended. "Well, I'm a quarter Lebanese and German, Scottish and Irish on my dad's side, my grandparents on my mom's side were both from Lithuania but they met in Brooklyn..."
[–]myrpou 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 4 時間 前 (3子コメント)
Because people with heritage from other countries don't exist in Europe.
[–]Swoller 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 3 時間 前 (1子コメント)
sarcasm, right?
[–]LogisticalNightmare -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Let's just say that the travel budget for the American version of "Who Do You Think You Are" is quite a bit higher.
[–]stjep 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I think it's more about people disagreeing with you rather than misunderstanding you. I don't think it is legit to claim Italian heritage when you don't speak the language, have no contact with family in Italy (or don't know if you have any) and don't follow any Italian customs. What exactly makes you Italian in that case other than your declaration that you're Italian?
[–]Benjamin-Disraeli -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 4 時間 前* (2子コメント)
The reason most Europeans laugh when Americans claim "Italian" or "Irish" heritage is that there was massive amounts of migration around Europe for the past few thousand years. Also what you consider whole countries like Italy now, didn't even exist back then! America is far older than most European countries, Germany and Italy didn't exist back then. It's a bit like saying you are "Washingtonian", what the fuck would that even mean? Hardly anyone has ancestry actually native to a specific region called Washington which has only existed for a few hundred years.
Imagine someone who claims Irish heritage, well Ireland was colonised by the Saxons, Celts, Vikings, Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Dutch etc. And people from Ireland moved all around the British Isles, many people moved from Ireland to England, then England to America, so when people claim they are "half English" or "half Irish" it's totally meaningless.
[–]AngryGlenn 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
A lot of it is claiming a cultural identity, though. There are cultural things now that are truly American, but so many things were "imported" by the immigrant families and passed down through tradition. It's a link to the "homeland", and even though I (3rd generation American) have no idea what the homeland means to me, my great-grandparents did, and passed it down. Being "German" doesn't mean I have anything in common with the people living in Germany, but it means I have something in common with my great grandparents.
And, I also claim a state "nationality". I'm from Wisconsin, and I'm proud of the culture of my home state. I still say I'm "from" Wisconsin, even though I haven't lived there in years. It's just another piece of the puzzle that helps to inform my cultural identity.
Signed,
Mostly German, American, Wisconsinite (Sconnie), living in Chicago
[–]who-you -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 36 分 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah I don't understand why everyone thinks it's weird to say "oh I'm from this state." We do that all the time in the US.
I mean, I'm thirteenth generation American. I'm about as American as you can get. But I still like to know where my ancestors came from. I just don't see why many Europeans have such a hard time grasping that concept.
[–]AGPO 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's not necessarily ignorance, it's got more to do with the terminology and European ideas about identity belonging to a given nation.
Our national identities are communities on a massive scale shaped over centuries. We've had sixty years of peace in Europe but more than two thirds of that have been dealing with the front line of the cold war on our doorstep. Before that we had thousands of years off war which shaped our cultures and our nation states. We define ourselves by these bonds built over thousands of years in opposition to rival cultures and every part of that heritage directly shaped our lives and the society we currently live in. Belonging to that society and defining yourself as French, Italian or British implies to us a set of loyalties of responsibilities and is a huge deal. You don't have to go back many generations before you see obscene amounts of blood being spilt over it.
Nobody has a problem with terms like "Irish-American" to define an ethnicity or sense of herritage, but being Irish, English, Hungarian or whatever means a heck of a lot more to us, and for some hearing 'Irish' used in the sense that Americans do cheapens that meaning. Turning round to an Irish person and saying that you're Irish when you've never set foot in the country ignores all the shared experiences which define being Irish to that person.
It's like being a sports fan who goes to every single game and sees his team struggle, but stands in the rain through all the crappy seasons and near misses cheering them on and eventually sees them make the final after decades of loyal support. The new supporters who only took an interest when the team made the semis may call themselves fans, and you may even think it's great they're taking an interest, but they don't belong to that team in the same way you do, and it rankles when people use the same term to lump you all together.
Tl;dr We get what you mean and a sense of heritage is great, but it's the use of the exact same term as an identity that's hugely important to us.
[–]StankyMung 145 ポイント146 ポイント147 ポイント 10 時間 前 (52子コメント)
I get it if you hold onto the heritage. Just don't be all Italian when watching The Godfather or whatever but be completely American the other 99.9% of your life.
My mother's side is Slavic, and they celebrate as such, all holidays, they're still very Russian Orthodox. My father's side is German/Polish and they celebrate like, well, Americans. Burgers, hot dogs, football. Both sides immigrated around the same time, late 1800s.
I can't identify as either, but my mother and her family sure can, and do.
[–]t0mcat 165 ポイント166 ポイント167 ポイント 9 時間 前 (37子コメント)
So if I don't do things the way you think Scots should behave all the time, I'm no true scot?
[–]StankyMung 114 ポイント115 ポイント116 ポイント 9 時間 前 (29子コメント)
If you're a blood Scot you're a Scot. My point is, don't go to Australia and wrangle snakes, eat Vegemite, and play knifey-spoony all day and say your still a Scot. At that point you're an Aussie with Scottish blood.
Edit: kinda awesome how Swype has Vegemite in its dictionary.
[–]MrFlibblesVeryCross 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Like Acca Dacca and Barnsey?
[–]FreshM 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Blood for the Blood Scot!
[–]curiiouscat 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I don't think it's up to you what determines someone's identity
[–]Birdie_Num_Num 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 6 時間 前 (3子コメント)
I'm an Irish guy who has lived in Australia for the last 12 years. I do lots of Aussie style stuff like drink beer, watch the cricket and cook snags on the barbie.
To you I might be Aussie with Irish blood, but I'm definitely an Irish guy who just happens to be living in Australia.
[–]t0mcat 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 9 時間 前 (10子コメント)
*ahem*
Are you saying I'd be no true Scotsman?
[–]Paging_Juarez 44 ポイント45 ポイント46 ポイント 9 時間 前 (6子コメント)
We get it... But it's not a clever reference, it's just an idiom.
[–]t0mcat 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
just having fun no need to get salty :(
[–]rabidsi 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (3子コメント)
It isn't even how the fallacy works. "No True Scotsman" has to be the most quoted and yet the most misunderstood concept on reddit.
Guess what reddit. Saying "No true Scotsman would X" isn't a fallacy. There's more to it than that.
[–]shhkari 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 6 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Yeah except, "No True Scotsman would move to Australia and do X" is pretty much a clear case of the fallacy.
[–]rabidsi 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 時間 前 (1子コメント)
No, it isn't. You clearly still haven't read it.
Let me make it really fucking simple. The statement:
"No true Scotsman would move to Australia and eat Vegemite."
is not a fallacy. It is simply a statement filled with opinion. In order to become an example of the NTS fallacy, THIS needs to occur:
"No Scotsman would move to Australia and eat Vegemite."
"I am a Scotsman. I moved to Australia. I also like Vegemite. Checkmate?"
"No True Scotsman would do that."
The "No True X" portion is not what is important.
The entire. fucking. point. of the fallacy is that it is one of moving the goalposts and redefining a definition after an argumentative counterpoint to benefit your argument.
Do you understand now?
[–]t0mcat 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Which is why it's a question, not an accusation!
[–]ThisFieldIsntLongEno -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It ain't making me laugh...
[–]Ephemeralis 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (1子コメント)
No true Scotsman would make a jab at logical fallacies in a thread about Scottish independence.
[–]idaltufalkard 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Oh my...
[–]TonyLaRocca 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Possibly programmed by Men at Work fans.
[–]dontbetoxic 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I see you've played knifey-spoony before.
[–]bort-thrillho 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
If you live in scotland your a fucking scot.
[–]Schoffleine 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
The hell is a knifey spooney
[–]weirdfb 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
What is knifey-spoony? Sounds like an abusive relationship.
[–]vipergirl 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I just say I'm an American with British ancestry (Welsh, Scottish and English and that's just about it. Got tired of trying to break it down for anyone...so fuck it, I just say er what I said. )
Well...I could say British-American, but I don't want to offend anyone so...American of British ancestry.
[–]melanoo420 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Upvote for knifey-spoony.
[–]Fatallis 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Can I ask what knifey spooney is? As an American I'm clueless and intrigued..
[–]StankyMung 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's a Simpsons reference.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bart_vs._Australia
http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/page/knifey-spoony-6582.jpg
[–]DragonGT 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I was going to post something which I now realize was exactly the reason why these sorts of conversations irk me. We're too obsessed as humans world wide about classifying each other as anything more discernible than just human.
I mean, seriously. Why in the world should anyone be upset about made-up classifications? I honestly don't care if a woman from China thought India was badass, bought a plane ticket, new local attire and a red dot in the middle of her forehead. As long as we're not straight up making fun of others, I don't see why it should matter at all.
I was equally impressed with knifey-spoony
[–]POOR_IMPULSE_CONTR0L 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
sman
[–]bionicjoey 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I see what you did there
[–]BaroTheMadman 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (4子コメント)
You might be a Scot if that's your heritage. But you are not Scottish, i.e. are not from Scotland, and don't have a right to call Scotland your country or think that this voting has actually anything to do with you.
You can be proud of your heritage, but not appropriate it. If you're American, you're American. That's cool too.
[–]DeclanQ -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 時間 前 (3子コメント)
My ancestors were Irish and forced to come to America after nearly their entire family was massacred. My dream has always been to go "home," but it's not financially feasible right now. I don't feel I belong here and don't consider myself American, whether I technically am or not. I feel a very strong connection to my heritage. I don't consider that appropriation. Maybe some of the people here who have Scottish ancestors and care about this feel the same way. I'm sure not all of them do, but who knows?
[–]drd0ctor -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm the same way, but I'm Portuguese. However I am a Portuguese citizen, and speak the language fluently, I just wasn't born there. Still, I don't identify as American, culturally I'm an outcast, especially during handegg season
[–]StillWill 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Ugh. Just go to Ireland, feel ridiculous, and come home, so you can get over this nonsense.
[–]Fromolew 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (1子コメント)
You'd have to watch godfather a lot for it to take up .01% of your life
[–]lurks-a-lot 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Do they squat a lot. Shout out to /r/slavsquat.
[–]shhkari 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6 時間 前 (1子コメント)
I'm part Ukrainian. I like vodka, perogies, and want to learn the language.
That's about as much cultural affinity as I can muster.
[–]poo-poo 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'm white, I like vodka. It's not appropriation, I just like it.
[–]Holycity 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
The mob are like direct descendent from Sicilian people. The old mob.
[–]elbenji 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (1子コメント)
....burgers and hot dogs are German. Frankfurt-ers and Hamburg-ers
[–]Rizzpooch 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Hey, the godfather is long! Watching it takes at least .2% of some people's lives
[–]gutter_rat_serenade 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 時間 前* (4子コメント)
My roommate is "Irish" because he likes Notre Dame football and has redish hair... even has shamrock/leprechaun tattoo... making him the worst Irishman ever... except I doubt he's Irish at all.
[–]threetrappedtigers 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 9 時間 前 (3子コメント)
What does Notre Dame have to do with Ireland?
[–]gutter_rat_serenade 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 9 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Besides the fact that they're literally called "The Fighting Irish"...?
[–]ManaSyn 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's more like Our Lady is fighting the Irish.
[–]fprintf 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Their nickname is the Fighting Irish.
[–]Freekling 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 9 時間 前 (2子コメント)
America is still new compared to other countries, and people want to have that sense of cultural heritage.
[–]myrpou -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 3 時間 前 (1子コメント)
It's ok to just be american, no matter how many times you come to Europe and tell us you're "irish" or "italian" we will never see it, you're all just as american the lot of you.
Yeah, we don't really care what you Europeans think, actually. The fact that our Grandparents came from other countries, often times out of desperate circumstances, and maintained their cultural heritage within their families and communities, is part of OUR culture. We aren't asking for your citizenship or your approval, and we could honestly give no fucks if you "never see it."
[–]IanCurtisJackson 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Oh wow, another European trying to act superior, but actually displaying ignorance.
[–]TechiesIsMyMate 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I am a true american. I am a mutt, half amazing, half number one.
[–]redarrow141 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
*Emigrated from.
[–]iouwerf 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
That's a shitload of "greats". Most people I know are within 2-3 generations. Grandparents, great grandparents. Seems if you go over 5 gens, you get the Mayflower people and the "I don't know, I think I might be Norwegian" people. It all depends if you're first or second wave.
[–]beatauburn7 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Everybody shits on us when we want to call ourselves Americans and comes back saying the native Americans are the only true americans so then when we trace our lineage back to our roots we also get shit on. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
[–]Lochcelious 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 10 時間 前 (35子コメント)
That's exactly why black Americans are black Americans. They are not African American (unless they were born in Africa and moved to America)
[–]grizzdo 23 ポイント24 ポイント25 ポイント 9 時間 前 (22子コメント)
In the UK it's considered a racial slur to call a black guy African because of their skin colour
[–]koproller 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 9 時間 前 (7子コメント)
Same in the Netherlands. But that's slowly changing. Politicians call people "Marokkanen", "Surinamers", "Antilianen", "Turken". Fuck that shit. You have a Dutch passport? You're as Dutch as me mate.
[–]Call_Me_Craig -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah, people are still racist though.
Especially against Moroccans. I seem them as Dutchies, but my parents for example are all "go the fuck back to your own country, you monkeys". They are... a tad racist. Okay, a lot. It mostly comes up when the media is saying once again stuff about 'trouble neighbourhoods', another Moroccan having done something criminal or something.
Or when a group smears mud on my dad's car and throws a brick at his head. They have no problem with integrated Moroccans.
[–]Oh_its_that_asshole -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 時間 前 (1子コメント)
My grandparents cheerfully ignored that and would regularly call people "darkies", quite loudly. They weren't racist, just from small country villages where they didn't see many coloured people, and also somewhat set in their ways.
[–]grizzdo 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
No that's exactly my point.
Darkies describes skin colour (albeit negatively), like black describes skin colour. They didn't call them 'African' or a phrase that hints at ethnic origin though.
[–]pyuunpls 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Yeah but you forget, we Americans are fucked up.
[–]OwlSeeYouLater 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Of course it is. Some (many) people in American don't understand that not all black are from Africa.
[–]TheBeefBenson -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
In the UK it's considered a racial slur to give a damn about the English.
[–]Lochcelious -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
TIL
[–]test_alpha 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Well it is pretty racist.
[–]gutter_rat_serenade 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 9 時間 前 (5子コメント)
That's dumb. If people feel a connection to their ancestors and want to hang on to a little of that, what's the problem?
[–]grizzdo -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 7 時間 前 (4子コメント)
You're doing a bit of a false equivocance there.
The question is "why do we call black people african"
You're answering "why cant black people call themselves african"
If their identity is African American and they want to think of themselves as that with all its links to slavery and the civil rights movement. That's cool. That's their heritage.
If you see a black guy and call him African American you're linking him to (what might be, who knows) a history of slavery and civil rights movements. You might have it right, you might have it totally wrong (I.e. maybe he's from France and moved over 4 years ago). Either way your muscling in on something you don't know anything about and isn't your business.
Whereas "Black"? That's just a term for people with dark skin colour. There's no history or culture assosiated.
[edit: unless you mean your personal family history and you happen to have a history of racism, then yeah, I guess calling all the blacks African is staying true to that?]
[–]gutter_rat_serenade 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 7 時間 前 (3子コメント)
You really don't know your history do you? Black is a color. African American is an identity.
And I will call them whatever they want to be called, because I don't feel any kind of white entitlement as you seem to feel.. I don't need to tell everyone else what they should be called or what they should feel about their own history.
And if you knew anything about history, "African American" wasn't a term used very much during the civil rights movement... it was "black", "colored", and "negro".
[–]grizzdo 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 時間 前 (2子コメント)
You're the one painting every black guy as an African American, not me.
We hear about it in the UK a bit. Bemused brits going over and being called "African American". Despite not being African or American.
It's not "white entitlement". It's about having enough basic respect for other people that you don't automatically label them as being part of a specific culture.
This is probably a bit of culture clash in play here. You call a guy black where you live and you're a racist. I call a guy African or African-American or African-British where I live and I'm a racist.
It's like calling every spanish looking person Peurto Rican or something.
[–]gutter_rat_serenade 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 時間 前 (1子コメント)
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because you're trying to speak about a country you've never even been to.
Like I said, I'll call them what they want to be called, you're the one that thinks you should get to set the rules of what people should call themselves.
But any any case, enjoy your tea, I'm out of this one.
[–]grizzdo 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I'll leave a closing note too then.
20% of the world is black. If we say 6 billion people globally, that's 1.2 billion.
12% of americans are black ("African American"). If we say 300 million people (5% of global population), that's 36 million people. Let's not forget that some of these folk aren't going to originate from Africa, but for sake of argument let's keep it at that.
36 million out of 1.2 billion is about 3%. When you use African American as a generic term for someone with dark skin, you are mis-labelling 97% of black people.
[–]penguininfidel 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Or because they have almost no idea where they trace their ancestry to?
[–]Lochcelious 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
We don't call ourselves by our ancestry. I don't say I'm English-German-Irish-Italian-Egyptian-Russian-Scottish-Chinese-African-American. Just American; I was born and am a citizen of USA. But I digress, I'm an Earthian ;3
[–]WhiteKnigth 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
As someone from Latin america I dot get that part, why black is not enough ?
[–]thatbattleboi 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Or we can simply be called Americans...you know, like how white Americans are just called Americans? That would be nice. On the other hand, I can see why some of us prefer the term African American since that's where we originate and that is the land we were forcibly taken from. No migration on our part so it's not like we adopted the culture. More like it was forced upon us. But I love my country (except when it is expressing its hatred for people of my complexion) and would prefer to be seen as just an American. This will never happen though because racism is deeply engrained in our culture and history.
[–]Lochcelious 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (1子コメント)
Calling someone black or white is not racism.
[–]thatbattleboi 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I don't recall saying that it was...
[–]CB1Punk 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 8 時間 前 (1子コメント)
My Stepsister-in-law is a Mormon from North Carolina, an incredibly stereotypical jesus loving American.
And has a tattoo of a Claybeg and Saint Andrew's Cross taking up the majority of her thigh. Also she asked me where my family's castle is located in Scotland as she thinks hers is just outside Edinburgh.
I didn't know whether to laugh or cry.
[–]tehjarvis 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Mormons practice a thing called baptism by proxy. They believe that they can be baptised in place of a dead person and that person, wherever they are in the afterlife, then has the posthumous choice to covert to Mormonism and become the God of their own planet. They're also taught that family, even family you've never met, are the most important thing ever. (The more hardcore of them, if a family member leaves the church, will never talk to them again. I mean, why would you? They'll be baptised by proxy eventually and you'll spend the majority of eternity together anyways.) This causes them to become obsessed with their genealogy, where they trace their family back as far as they can and get baptised for each one of them.
Bonus crazy personal LDS anecdote: In the early 2000's I dated a Mormon girl for a year or so. She wondered why, unlike the other families at church, her parents and older siblings never talked about their genealogy. She decided to start looking into it and planned to surprise her family by eventually sharing everything she learned and they, of course, would be thrilled with her neat little project. She quickly realized why it wasn't ever brought up when she discovered, like her older siblings before her, that her parents are first cousins.
[–]RagingOrangutan 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 8 時間 前 (2子コメント)
What's wrong with this? My father was Indian, mother German, and I was born in the United States. I identify as being German, Indian, and American. All three of these backgrounds influence me greatly.
[–]BARK_BARK_BARK_BARK -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 7 時間 前* (1子コメント)
That's a difference. The point I was trying to make is that a lot of Americans tend to cling to their ancestor's nationalities even though they have absolutely no connection to the country whatsoever, besides their relative who used to live there five generations ago. edit: words
[–]Shatenfreude 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
More like 3-4 generations tops. My great grandfather was from Buckie Scotland and came to the us in the early 1900s. In the grand scheme of things that is still very relevant and recent. Most american immigrants started flooding here during the mid 1800s. That was only 160 years ago. Two life times away.
Not to mention Irish Germans Italians africans and other groups heavily influenced their settling locations. That's why Boston has basketball teams named after an Irish motif, why Cincinnati has a neighborhood called over the Rhein, and why every little town in america has a hodgepodge of ethnic names on small business signs related to their heritage. Hoffman's diner, Mario's pizza, or McGregor's pub.
We are a nation of immigrants with diverse backgrounds that are socially joined and defined by the struggle to find a place and get along in a young society. As a result people identify with what makes them unique and what they contribute to that society. Many Europeans don't understand that. The diversity of people found in america is grossly higher than most other countries and is one of the first things visitors from europe notice.
[–]admdelta 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
No, because it actually makes sense to identify with your heritage.
[–]renaldomoon 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I feel the same way and I live there. The way the do it is so amusing too. It's like they are showing some cool things they bought. "I'm German, Irish, and I got a bit of Italian. That's why I have dark hair! Tehehe!"
They have no absolutely none of the customs and none of the culture. Imo your culture says who you are not your heritage.
[–]GreatWhite000 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 10 時間 前 (0子コメント)
I wouldn't be able to do that I don't think, but my grandfather gave up his German citizenship (was young during WWII and they had to escape Germany) when he became an American citizenship, so it is kind of crazy to think that my dad could have been German.
[–]Cataclyst 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's enough for the Russians....
[–]Milhouse_is_a_meme 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Last 15 seconds of this video
http://youtu.be/N0rUtSLZTlc
[–]studentthinker 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
And lived in a castle before leaving...
[–]CommercialPilot -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 6 時間 前 (0子コメント)
A lot of the American's ancestors didn't immigrate here that early.
[–]FlashCrashBash -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Its not that extreme. I only have to go back to my great grandmother on my mothers side to find people that emigrated from the home country.
In America, I'm Greek, Italian, Irish, and French. Everywhere else? American. Why can't you people just accept cultural differences exist and this is just another weird quirk that you can't seem to understand.
[–]pixelcrak -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Ummm, some are first generation.
[–]roberttylerlee -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
The beauty of America is where your family came from is just as important as where it's going next, that's the American Dream.
Just for reference: English/Irish/French/Swedish/German make up my heritage, and I'm damn proud of that. English family came over on the mayflower, irish side in 1840, Swedish in 1900, and I know fuck all about the french side of my family except my great grandmothers parents were from Quebec City and their parents were from France.
[–]Zetterbergs_Beard -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 5 時間 前 (0子コメント)
What's wrong with honoring/celebrating your heritage?
[–]Dolphin_Titties 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
But never English, despite the obvious fact a huge amount of them 'are'
[–]Gustav__Mahler 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It was actually just my great grandfather.
[–]butterhoscotch -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 4 時間 前 (0子コメント)
americans dont really have a an ethic identity, everyone here came from someone who came from someone else, with the exception of native americans. So when people are identifying their ethnicity they go by their roots.
If my parents were german and italian but grew up in american, my ethic background is no less german or italian. I dont really have the culture of either, I am culturally american but I do have a fondness for my roots. Its nice to be able to identify even a little bit with where you came from.
[–]andromeda69 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
There's more 'Irish" people in America than in Ireland. Also, what you said is 10X for hispanics. LIterally everyone is from Spain through some way.
[–]SKEETLE5 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 3 時間 前 (0子コメント)
How does this have upvotes?
[–]Diiiiirty 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 2 時間 前* (0子コメント)
My grandparents on my mom's side are straight from Italy. My grandparents on my dad's side are straight from Ireland. I, personally, have never been to either country, but I still identify as half Irish half Italian because my life has been heavily influenced by both cultures, and I plan on maintaining those ties to my heritage when I have kids. Why does that bother you? Even in 5 generations from now, I'd hope that my descendents hold on to some of those traditions and continue to identify with that heritage. It's a point of pride for Americans. Just like we are proud to be American, we are proud of our old-world blood, and if anything, you guys should take it as a compliment that we are proud to share blood with you, not be pissed off about it.
Not to mention, we have cultural areas in almost every major city that have a very homogenous population of immigrants and descendents of immigrants. For example, in Cleveland we have Little Italy where someone is just as likely to talk to you in Italian than in English, and we have Slavic Village that is the same thing. There are even suburbs with homogenous populations....Cleveland Heights has an astoundingly large Hasidic Jew population, maple heights used to be almost exclusively Irish Catholic. That's just Cleveland, which is a pretty small city. People group together and hold onto the old world culture.
[–]cutter631 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 1 時間 前* (0子コメント)
There's more Irish Americans in this world than Irish-born people. We celebrate the Irish American culture in this country, not Irish culture.
EDIT: My grandparents were from Italy. They instilled Italian pride in my father, his brothers and sisters, my cousins, my brother, and myself. You're damn right I'll be doing the same to my children one day, and so on and so forth. 100 years from now my descendants will hopefully know where their ancestors came from and have context about how they ended up in this country. That's what we pride ourselves on here, historical and genealogical context.
[–]vkapustin 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
yah American are so stupid amirite?!?
[–]jabjoe -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
It's same in England, everyone finds a way to claim to not be English. I think it's just a universal thing to try and appear more interesting. Nobody is pure anything, even if they think they are. I'm not sure what pure even means. We are all immigrants, our ancestors just arrived at different times. The moment people start taking great pride how they are insert identity here it worries me because it's drawing a line between people that doesn't exist.
[–]Piness -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Europeans shit on Americans when they display pride in their country, but then they shit even harder on them when they shun their identity as Americans and instead embrace their ancestors' cultures.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
[–]DTMickeyB -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
ITT: Europeans don't know an ethnicity is.
[–]gutter_rat_serenade -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 時間 前 (5子コメント)
Yeah, fuck them for wanting to belong!
[–]Hoborrrr 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (0子コメント)
One of my old friends was 100% English, she was born her, both her parents were born here, but she insisted she was 'European' because her grandmother was German. This annoyed me so much and I don't even understand why.
[–]wankhandoftheking -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
This is something I totally cannot understand.
I was born and raised in the UK, but after 15 years abroad I hardly identify with the place any more. When it comes to my great-great-grandparents, I don't even know where they came from, let alone identify with wherever that was.
[+]electedkhan スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント 9 時間 前* (9子コメント)
CuWhat do you mean claim to be? I came from somewhere. The Reverend John B Moore came from Scotland to America in 1756 and died here after raising a family, carry that down the line and you bet I identify with my Scottish genes.*
*Editted to be more accurate.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 9 時間 前 (7子コメント)
You are not Scottish.
[–]electedkhan -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 8 時間 前 (6子コメント)
Downvote all you want, I love my ancestry and I'm not going to reject it based on anyone telling me anything.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 8 時間 前* (5子コメント)
I haven't downvoted you. And I admire your appreciation of your ancestry, and your rejection of my point, but you're just not Scottish at all.
I find it a bit weird that you feel the need to cling to something that you have virtually no connection with. It was about ten generations ago; you could probably claim to be many, many nationalities; why have you picked that one? You'd have about 1000 immediate ancestors to pick from.
Why are you 'Scottish' but not Celtic? Why are you not British? Moore is an Irish name; why are you not Irish?
[–]electedkhan -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 8 時間 前 (4子コメント)
Well I have a huge appreciation for history, and as an American not much to be appreciative for. The entire country is newer than the formation of the United Kingom, which was extremely late in the history of the British Isles. So I either limit my appreciation of history (as pertaining to my own ancestors) to the last 240 years, or I appreciate what my ancestors did before they came to America, and that is the oldest ancestor my family has been able to track. I'm sure I have a lot of other stuff, and I'm not trying to say im an actual Scotsman, but I have always felt connected, since I was a kid. I have an extreme longing to visit one day, and it may be weird but it's how I have felt for a long time. The history of Scotland is amazing. When I read about Scottish soldiers in India terrifying the local soldiers with their stoic bagpipe marches through cannonball and musket fire, followed by their brutal charges with their massive claymores I swelled with pride. I wouldn't say clinging, I would say I have always felt connected, at least for as long as I can remember.
[–]PhantomGoatherder 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 時間 前 (3子コメント)
I thoroughly appreciate this, and I think it's great. I just feel it's completely wrong to say you're Scottish when it's that far back, but you've said you wouldn't claim to be an actual Scotsman so I get that.
[–]electedkhan -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 8 時間 前 (2子コメント)
Yeah I didn't mean to make that bold of a claim, but I don't know how else to define how I feel. Are you from Scotland?
Edit: Also thanks for being totally cool about this, I really appreciate your polite responses. And Happy Talk Like a Pirate day me matie, yarrggh
[–]PhantomGoatherder 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 7 時間 前 (1子コメント)
No, I am English. Although there are many Scottish people in my family.
[–]electedkhan -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 7 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Interesting. By what criteria does one define themselves? Where you're born or raised or what percentage of blood or how does that work? The UK is a culturally and historically fascinating place, and this vote has been just a momentous occasion.
[–]Lochsexmonster 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 時間 前 (0子コメント)
Nope.
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