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Women in the Arab world struggle to feel free enough to travel alone. I am a 25-year-old girl from Pakistan, and I cycled from Muenster to Aachen, Germany to prove to every female around the world that there is no one stopping them from achieving their dreams. (imgur.com)

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[–]Whuzza_reddit 1830 ポイント1831 ポイント  (375子コメント)

You went on a day long bike ride in a free Western country. How does this prove anything?

*edit - people seem to conclude this means I don't understand the difficulties of being a woman in an oppressive situation. It's actually quite the opposite. I applaud OP for doing something she didn't think she had the courage to do. I hope she learned a lot and I'm glad she got to have the experience.

But to think that this ride does anything to advance the plight of women in Pakistan or the Arab World (which are not the same thing at all) does a disservice to those actually trying to effectuate change in those regions. OP's title is just awful, and this definitely does not prove what she claims it proves. It's a shitty grab at internet points and many of you bought right in.

[–]sorrytosaythat 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (10子コメント)

My mother works as a doctor in a Western country and she says immigrant women from Middle East never show up alone to her clinic. Mind you, it's a very safe and quiet place that just offers vaccinations to kids and OBGYN services, so there is really no reason to think it's a dangerous place.

They say they are scared of being out in the streets on their own, wherever they need to be they always want to be accompanied by their husbands, or sons or male relatives and family friends.

And, anyway, a Sicilian room mate of mine wasn't allowed to own a bike because her parents thought it was too dangerous for her, while her brother had one and no one ever bat an eye.

[–]Ciwan1859 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (8子コメント)

As someone very familiar with the middle east and of middle eastern origins. I can tell you why that is. The males are scared and worried that their wives and daughters would abandon them or be fearless against them once they:

  • Understand the system
  • Experience more humane, more just treatment

It has been said to me countless of times: 'Don't let your woman go outside alone, don't let her go to university, always be with her, otherwise she'll become filtan (meaning astray)'

I have no hope for that society, none. :(

[–]misspealt [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

As a middle easterner who has lived in Pakistan and now lives in Australia, regularly talked to Bangladeshi, Syrians, lebanese, even Egyptians, sri Lankans, Indians. This is completely wrong. I have never heard it in my life and as other person said this poster is basically FOX NEWSing this.

[–]artoka 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is such exagerations our Neighbours are Algerian refugees and the wife is doing driving lessons to be able to do shopping and bring kids to school. She didnt want to before not because of her husband but because she didnt want the whole household to be on her. Now he atleast has to come along do shopping and bring kids to school. But the second she can drive he will drown in work and everything will be on her. But after a long lecture by my mom of how being able to drive is cool to go to sales in other cities without your husband nagging etx she changed her mind. As i see her i discovered a whole new scenario of why not being independent can be attractive to muslim women. But this one is changing. Also another muslim woman ons a shop in our city and i seen her alone all the time.

[–]Hot_DogFingers 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What?

[–]Ciwan1859 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

My apologies, let me clarify. I am talking mostly about first generation Muslim immigrants. And yes it is a generalization, my immediate family would have been a good example against this generalization, but we're not Muslims (Grandparents and everyone else in the family are).

In short, there are always cases that break the generalization. Muslims grown up in the west, don't have this, or at least to a much lesser extent. Hell I've seen Muslim boys and girls coming out of strip clubs here in the UK.

[–]artoka 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah i understood it that you meant first generation. My Algerian neigbour is fresh out of Algeria.

[–]KONYOLO[🍰] [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

Oh boy you are wrong, you talk like a FoxNews anchor with your horrible stereotypes, do you seriously believe that a majority of Saudi (as an example) women are in an oppressive relationship? Why, because they wear a veil and you don't understand it ? Or is it because brown people are terrorists?

First of all, you have to understand that most of the women there don't want any change because men are literally made to serve them;

To my surprise, 134 (out of 170) respondents said female driving is not a necessity and that it opens the door for sexual harassment and encourages women to not wear the niqab under the pretext that they cannot see the road when driving. Some also fear that it gives husbands a chance to betray and agree with the assertion that it creates sedition in society.

In my point of view, female driving is not a necessity because in the country of the two holy mosques every woman is like a queen. There is (someone) who cares about her; and a woman needs nothing as long as there is a man who loves her and meets her needs; as for the current campaigns calling for women's driving, they are not reasonable. Female driving is a matter of fun and amusement, let us be reasonable and thank God so much for the welfare we live in.

  • Bedoor Elmaliki, a student

[The driving movement is] just a crazy imitation of America, and doesn't mean more liberation for women. It rather means liquidation of the society and inferiority of its moral values. The biggest evidence on this is the liquidation of American society; we don't want this in our kingdom.

  • Banaader Elmaliki, a 4th year mathematics student

The results of my informal survey were almost identical to those of a questionnaire my former Saudi students conducted. They found 3,209 out of 3,710 Saudi women opposed changing the driving laws, for the same aforementioned reasons.

Your vision of the Middle-East family is literally western propaganda in a war context (aka we have to dehumanize Muslims because we are shooting them), stop trying to change a working system just because you don't like it.

That said I agree that people should have a choice, westerners that don't like cultural marxism should be able to move to Middle-East and middle-easterners that dislike Islamic culture should be able to move to western countries.

Don't forget that the western society has a lot of issues too, including high and growing suicide rates for women between 24 and 64, not surprising since 1 woman in 4 is taking antidepressants.

tl;dr : Don't try to force a society with low moral values everywhere (especially when yours isn't working) but give people a choice.

Sources :

[–]ciccopiccolo [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

The fact that you call it a low moral society says more about your character than about his/hers. How about when a woman wants to go somewhere without asking permission or against the will of her parents/husband? It us just a way to keep women subjugated. Do not fool yourself in thinking otherwise

[–]ph34rb0t 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have no hope for that society, none. :(

Given the negative experiences you've had, isn't this a good thing?

[–]artoka 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is not always true i had a Syrian, Iraqi and Persian female classmates who went to school alone and they were 12-13 years old just out of Middle East. And in our area you had to go to another city for school because many towns dont have school.

[–]larsholm 450 ポイント451 ポイント  (54子コメント)

As I see it she was anxious to do it, and she overcame that, that's the point.

[–]BarelyLegalAlien 140 ポイント141 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Well then good for her, because she is free, in Germany, and she is able to ride a bike alone. All she is proving is that Germany is a safe place, nothing else.

[–]Steadman 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah this is stupid. We shouldn't feel obligated to support every stupid post pandering for karma.

This is stupid and pretentious, and sums this site up perfectly.

She should have made this quick bike ride with a dog named Tesla.

[–]BarelyLegalAlien 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I've been subscribed to /r/pics mostly not to miss some reddit meta-jokes, but I unsubscribed now, I'm done with this sub.

[–]raudssus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every women who posts for women rights on the internet should actually first prove that she assured that she is equally paid in her company, because if all women would deny to work for lower payment, it would already change a lot (I talk about western country women here, in most countries they could actually sue for that income), but they dont, they just accept it, say that she have to stay to make a change at all...... but feel like they fight for the rights with changing the wording of stuff... or drive with the bicycle through safe countries ;).......... really f**k that

[–]tloxscrew 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Alone? I see two bikes in the photo, with very similar equipment... Where's my pitchfork?

[–]BarelyLegalAlien 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could be someone else's, the person she asked to take a picture maybe, let's not make assumptions.

[–]downboat-ahoy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is she even alone? There's another bike right next to hers with identical gear.

[–]throwdisaway1234 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

she's full of shit, all the way around. fuck her.

[–]send_you_to_billys 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a well known fact.

[–]BarelyLegalAlien 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, that makes the most even more annoying.

[–]artoka 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly this

コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

    [–]FrogWizard88 388 ポイント389 ポイント  (33子コメント)

    That's great, but I don't think it proves to the girl who's seen honor killings in her community that there's no one stopping her. Sorry this is kind of dumb :/

    [–]Pototsky 170 ポイント171 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Sort of like going "in South Sudan, you can get murdered for no reason. I played pickup basketball on Venice Beach with two black guys to show that you don't have to fear."

    [–]psychonator 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You be braver than me, matey.

    [–]RockFourFour 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    [WORLD PEACE ACHIEVED]

    [–]throwdisaway1234 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

    no, not sort of. it's exactly like your analogy.

    コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

      [–]TheGoldFighter 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I actually agree.

      [–]ItsDanimal 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I once was anxious about a speech in class in my 1st world community college. I overcame my fear and nailed it! If I can overcome that, surely these ladies can overcome their fears of living their daily lives. sheesh.

      [–]NCWV 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      You're kind of dumb

      [–]MMEnter 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      If it makes you feel any better there are honor killings in Germany.

      [–]FrogWizard88 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      That doesn't make me feel better. I'm very sorry to hear it.

      [–]robaroo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      careful. you'll be seen as sexist! /s

      [–]Siege_2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      My first thoughts as well. Yet here we are on the front page!

      [–]Internetologist [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      No need to apologize for being a massive twat. This is really cool, no point in posting ITT to shit on OP

      [–]IanSomerhaldersBitch [非表示スコア]  (1子コメント)

      This is the way I see it. She has grown up in a place where she can not roam freely. So doing that, even in a safe environment, means a lot to her. Like someone who had PTSD and faces what can trigger it. That means something.

      [–]FrogWizard88 [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      Something, sure.

      [–]PixyFreakingSticks [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

      Well, while I think this is sort of shitpost material, there is a valid point to be made here. The women in these countries are trained to think they're not capable of things like this. Sure, they're beaten if they try, but still, it's good to show them that women are capable.

      コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

        [–]Elchtoeter 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I am sure experiencing western freedom can be a liberating experience if you come from other societies esp. western Europe which is like the safest place on Earth.

        [–]_DEVILS_AVACADO_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It's more like, hey, it doesn't have to be oppressive. Look, look, in other parts of the world I can just bike from one city to another, all by myself!

        [–]raudssus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The relevant part was "leaving the country", and she should had celebrated that, as that seems the only message that this picture shows. I don't think this will help anyone at location, or you think really that "leave the country ASAP" is the solution to propagate?

        [–]bretstar [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

        http://i.imgur.com/zUJKViu.gif

        [–]officerha [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

        Well of she was anxious then it is all in her mind. Major cities in Pakistan are very open minded. Women study side by side with men. Women are running political offices side by side with men. Women drive on the same road as men. Women are doctors. Women are engineers. I don't what part of Pakistan she is from but she cannot be from any major city. My mom was a dentist and she practiced for 18 years before we moved to another country. So this utter BS from OP. She is trying to paint Pakistan in the same light as Saudi Arabia. Sure Pakistan have a lot of major flaws. But this isn't one of them.

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]momalm[S] 304 ポイント305 ポイント  (143子コメント)

          That was the first step toward change. I am now hoping to organize cycling trips in Pakistan.

          [–]MarchMarchMarchMarch 577 ポイント578 ポイント  (43子コメント)

          You're getting a lot of shit, but realistically your intentions are good. It's important for women in repressive societies to understand that it isn't OK for society to make them afraid to go out without a chaperone, but in addition to your intentions, you need to understand the reality of the situation. It is not safe for women in Pakistan (and many other parts of the world) to travel alone, and that is the part that has to change before the actual ability to travel can be exercised, otherwise your campaign will become a martyrdom. I hope this makes sense, because I firmly believe that there is no more honourable action than to defend those who cannot defend themselves.

          [–]smellsmoist 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          very polite, thoughtful, and thought provoking way to put it. nj

          [–]patssle 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (6子コメント)

          It should also be inspirational to western women too - there are far too many that are afraid to travel alone within their own western countries or to other 1st world countries. Be smart and it'll be plenty safe.

          [–]Ewannnn [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

          It is not just women, it's surprising how many people have issues with traveling anywhere out of their comfort zone.

          コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

            [–]Stones25 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Realistically she will be hurt or imprisoned.

            [–]DownVoteGuru 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Praise Allah, peace be upon him.

            [–]me_so_pro 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            It is not safe for women in Pakistan (and many other parts of the world) to travel alone, and that is the part that has to change before the actual ability to travel can be exercised

            Isn't that exactly what she trying to do? Provoke change so women can bike freely everywhere?

            [–]felinebeeline 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Well, the title says she did it to show women that there is no one stopping them. It didn't say she did it to show men that they should stop restricting and harming women. That's why it sounds out of touch and pretty insulting to the women who don't have the freedoms that allowed her to safely accomplish her goal.

            [–]Mutangw 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It's like going door to door dressed in a posh suit in a high-crime area asking people to hand over their guns to try to reduce gun crime. Sure you're trying to change things, but it isn't going to work because you're not the one who holds the power. What will happen is bad people who actually do have power backed by force will see a vulnerable, idealistic easy target.

            The people that make it dangerous to travel alone in Pakistan aren't other women, it's (some of) the men and the heavily patriarchal culture, not to mention the fact that part of the country is too unstable to travel in due to taliban presence.

            [–]BertDeathStare 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It's a noble idea, and I'm really happy for her that she's now free to do what she wants, but she's no longer in the same situation as the women she's trying to reach, so I don't think those women will be very impressed.

            If anything, women who see this image and want more freedom will want to leave for Germany or another western country.

            [–]iGapeSRSAnalCavities -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Train the dog not to eat the meat off the BBQ before you go putting meat on the BBQ when the dog is around. Her logic is all backwards, it's like throwing kerosene on a fire and wondering why it burned.

            [–]Internetologist [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

            sshh OP's efforts are meaningless and karma whoring. Get in the circlejerk!

            [–]iGotChubs4You 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I am sure a woman who lived in Pakistan her whole life has no idea about what is and isn't safe for women in Pakistan....

            [–]brighterside 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I agree with all your points, though, the people of Pakistan can't change unless people are willing to do these kinds of things. Certainly agreed, that if OP just scheduled a bike ride in Pakistan without protection, there will be some serious problems - but I think OP should reach out to some political folks who can hire protection. At least send along army personnel to protect the message so to speak.

            [–]electedkhan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This should be the top comment, not that pessimistic snark above. I am ashamed of the response in this thread.

            [–]antidestro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I know reddit is messed up when I see posts like yours only have 1 upvote.

            [–]Veggiemon 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I am surprised OP hasn't deleted her post, she was trying to say she overcame her fear of cycling alone and everyone is telling her she's going to die.

            [–]Ranzok 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Leave it to tinker to have a reasonable and thought out comment. You rat, imba as fuck.

            [–]thesecoloursdontrun 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Kinda ridiculous how mucb people seem to think everyone posts just for karma. When in reality the only people who care are those who a posting in 20 different subs at the same time, and those who complain about people whoring for karma. Like this comment threads OP and evrryone who followed suit.

            コメントをもっと表示する (17 返事)

              [–]dbz9001 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (22子コメント)

              I have a feeling there are some men in Pakistan that might stop the women from achieving their dreams.

              [–]blackberu 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (19子コメント)

              Not only in Pakistan, judging from this thread.

              [–]dbz9001 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (12子コメント)

              No one in this thread is advocating for women to not be able to ride bikes/have rights you fool.

              Several journalists have lost their lives trying to cover the injustice going on in the middle east. Let's talk about them.

              [–]MikeyB67 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Hey, let's no turn this into one of those whole "this is worse than the other thing, so we're not going to care about the other thing" type of things. I agree that journalists being killed is a bad thing, and needs to be stopped, but we're talking about women's rights at the moment.

              [–]m00fire [非表示スコア]  (0子コメント)

              Riding bikes is kinda easy. It's personal transport and you can get up to a decent speed if required.

              I still wouldn't advocate travelling through London on late tube trains though. It's really a case of common sense overcoming an irrational predisposed fear which is kinda how everyone overcomes fear, whether it's a girl on a bike or a fat dude on a rollercoaster. Not to detract from OP's personal accomplishment, but this isn't an act of selflessness rather than an act of self belief.

              コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                [–]Boygzilla 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Because they're pointing out that going for a bike stroll as a female in Germany isn't exceptional? If she would have done this in Pakistan, it would have been noteworthy.

                [–]Noisyfoxx 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This is the point. Its not a noteworthy event. Almost everybody carries thoughts like these around but this post still gets bumped as fuck just because sjw's can feel better when they upvoted it.

                To her it is sure a cool thing to mention but its nothing special in the progress of helping women in Middle Eastern Countries that are being held down by men.

                Also its on the wrong subreddit, pics isnt the right place for it.

                [–]robaroo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                we're all sexists pigs because we're not impressed with a bike ride that millions of women are already doing in bike-friendly-countries like germany and the u.s.

                [–]ThisOnesForScience 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                How is saying, "This is stupid.", in any way like stopping her from taking her little bike ride?

                [–]lanasands -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I wouldn't stop a woman from achieving her dreams if they included giving me a blowjob.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]me_so_pro 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  And what's the reason no one should try and change that?

                  [–]dbz9001 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  to prove that there is no one stopping them from achieving their dreams.

                  I'm not saying that we shouldn't change that, I'm saying that her biker ride is not proving that no one is stopping them from achieving their dreams because there are, in fact, people stopping them from achieving their dreams.

                  [–]sfajlkfsjd 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pippa_Bacca