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[AskMen]nutnuzzler describes how to handle discovering mid hook up that your partner is transgender (np.reddit.com)

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[–]such-a-mensch -27 ポイント-26 ポイント  (99子コメント)

Fuck that. If someone was dishonest to me up to the point of sexual relations them In my opinion any response is fair game.

If you don't want people to freak out, don't surprise them. If you tell me you've got a dick while were out over beers then we've got something interesting to talk about. If I learn about it when I reach into your pants I'm likely to lose my shit and freak out. I do not think there's anything wrong with freaking out when you find a penis in lieu of a vagina.

[–]FlowersForMegatron 63 ポイント64 ポイント  (7子コメント)

She did show him first and gave him the opportunity to leave if he wanted to. It's not like he found out when the tips collided.

[–]bunker_man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The issue is that someone who wouldn't have wanted any sexual contact like that and considers kissing sexual contact now has done something that they always will have done. Obviously in context the reasons trans people do this are easily defendible, based on what they have to go through to live, but defendible doesn't mean zero issues with whatsoever.

[–]Nerf_Circus -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have never made out with a guy but when making out with girls, I'm 99% sure they can feel my erect penis through my pants. I disagree with title of this submission. he didn't do anything someone with a bit of human decency would do.

[–]Toni_W 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am not sure what you were getting at but I wanted to chime in and say... female hormones completely break erections. The pills trans women take are known to cause erectile distinction, and female hormones themselves stop natural/spontaneous erections. Not to mention having one can be painful for trans women. Plus the whole tucking thing, things down there are usually pretty locked down.

[–]MysteryStain 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You get a boner every time you make out with a girl?

[–]riptaway 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't?

[–]ChenalCraft 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

kissing ! = making out

[–]Nerf_Circus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gently kissing on the lips doesn't turn me on but making out with passion does depending on the girl. If I can't get that passion that turns me on while making out I ain't going to find it when we have sex.

[–]Mejari 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (76子コメント)

Not sure I would react as calmly as the OP, but where exactly was she dishonest? Her genitals weren't relevant up until the point they were, and that's when she mentioned it. He didn't "find" her penis, she showed it to him (if I was her I maybe would have gone with telling instead of showing, but hey). Seems pretty honest.

[–]tiamdi 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (9子コメント)

It's completely relevant. If someone doesn't want to sleep with a person let alone kiss a certain subset of person then it is morally wrong to put them in that situation to begin with. If a man put himself in a position where he was hiding something to try to initiate intimate contact with a person who would not participate had that known said thing being hid he would be drawn and quartered. What makes it okay for a transgendered person to do the same thing?

[–]Mejari -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Because it's not the same thing? No one was "hiding something to try to initiate intimate contact".

[–]tiamdi 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

So there was no dick being hidden throughout the night as the OP was kissed and cuddled with?

[–]Mejari 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not unless you consider any second your dick is in your pants as "hiding" it.

[–]tiamdi 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It is if you're a man thinking that you're in contact with what you think is a female. Last time I checked having a dick changes that.

[–]Mejari -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

How is that related to whether or not she was "hiding" her dick?

[–]tiamdi -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, if you start getting intimate with someone and say "oh btw, I have a dick" it's kind of hiding it. The right thing to do would be to alert the person ahead of time. Personally, I would never do anything with someone who was born with a penis whether they had it surgically removed and had hormone therapy or not. It is my right to have that as a sexual preference. If you were to not alert me to this fact whether because you're scared, or because you truly believe you are female even though you have or had a dick at one point, you have violated me. That is morally wrong to do.

[–]Mejari 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with the idea that it's a good thing to notify people, I agree what you're allowed to have and enforce your own preferences, I just don't agree that she was hiding anything. There appears to be no intent to deceive, no hiding going on, and she notified him when they were getting to a point where it was appropriate to say something. You may think she should have notified him earlier, but that doesn't mean you can say she was intentionally "hiding" anything.

[–]pmtransthrowaway -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Having a penis doesn't make you a man. It makes you biologically male. You can be a girl and have a penis.

[–]Gareth321 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Quite right, and surely you are aware that people have the right to choose not to sleep with people of any particular sex?

[–]unduescrutiny 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Her genitals weren't relevant up until the point they were, and that's when she mentioned it.

Complete horseshit. The person’s genitals were relevant from the get-go. I do not want to sleep with a transgender person, but also, I don’t even want to kiss a transgender person. That is my personal preference.

It’s nice that OP didn’t mind and that there was no drama. But it would have been perfectly ok for a person to get up and leave when they found this out. And they would have a right to feel lied to and disgusted.

This notion that it is somehow incumbent upon people to be perfectly fine with fooling around with someone whose genitals do not match expectation, is ridiculous.

Yes, being transgender must be difficult in so many ways. And yes, it sucks that many people will not be ok with what is in your underwear. But it is still your responsibility to tell them very early on if you don’t want to risk them feeling cheated.

[–]snartyblartfarst 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Becaue it's really smooth to start your date with "Well yeah I look exactly like a woman, but to some people I'm a freak abomination and I can't afford the thousands of dollars in surgery to get a vaginaplasti, so you may not consider me a 'real woman'. Just a heads up, but yeah I love the beach..." /s

How exactly do you expect that to go smoothly even 1 out of 100 times? And what do you say to the trans women who do exactly this and fail, risking assult, murder, torture, or a burning? Because that what trans people got to deal with in the first place, in many cases not even looking for sex, just walking down the street.

I just think you don't really know what a trans person should do, or at least your advice should be disregarded. You have done a great job of informing us how you'd like it to work, but it won't be like that anytime soon if trans people are threatened with their lives for merely existing. Absolutely not being hostile, I just don't really think you understand the very, very thin line trans people have to walk.

[–]riptaway 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If someone isn't going to go on a date with you or kiss you because you're transgendered, then why would you even want to waste your time? Or worse, become physically intimate under false pretenses? That's toeing the line to rape, or at least unwanted sexual contact.

I'm sure it is awkward, and I'm sure it is shitty, but you have a right to be honest with someone about something like that. And if a guy isn't going to go on a date with you for being transgendered, why would you even waste your time?

[–]davidsredditaccount 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Consent under false pretenses is not valid, and she could have been charged with sexual assault. Just like having sex with someone while they think you are their so is rape.

[–]unduescrutiny 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How exactly do you expect that to go smoothly even 1 out of 100 times?

I expect it to go a lot more smoothly than lying about it.

And what do you say to the trans women who do exactly this and fail, risking assult, murder, torture, or a burning?

I think you made the right rhetorical choice here. Assault and murder just isn’t bad enough, so make up a ludicrous assertion that transpeople are literally being burned.

I just think you don't really know what a trans person should do, or at least your advice should be disregarded.

And I think that your advice should be disregarded.

Absolutely not being hostile, I just don't really think you understand the very, very thin line trans people have to walk.

I just don’t really think you understand that most men will react far better to a transwoman being upfront rather than finding out this essential information after having, to some degree, gotten physical with her.

[–]TheGuyThatsJustMeh 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said. You might get some criticism for this but I completely agree with you.

[–]Drigr -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Hello, I'm Drigr, and I have a penis. No no no, that's how I greet everyone. My penis is relevant right?

[–]riptaway 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

If you're asking out/being asked out or getting physically intimate and your gender does not match what the other person thinks, then yes. It's relevant.

[–]premiumPLUM -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

gender =/= genitals

[–]riptaway 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I didn't say it did, and regardless that's not the point of this discussion. Take your self righteousness somewhere else, please

[–]premiumPLUM 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

your gender does not match what the other person thinks, then yes. It's relevant.

Yeah you did?

Self-righteousness.. respect for human dignity.. whatever

[–]riptaway 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. But it's still not picking something that's beside my point, delivered with a holier than thou attitude. If you want discussion, fine. But don't act like I'm being offensive because I use a common term to describe a hypothetical situation. It's trying way too hard to be offended. If I'm talking to someone with a penis who identifies as female, I'll refer to them in the feminine. But I'm not referring to someone specifically, am I?

K thanks for playing bye

[–]unduescrutiny -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don’t give a fuck if you’re a transdimensional gummybearkin with a hexadecimal demisexuality and your preferred pronouns are shootmeinthehead/2progressive4u/whydontIgetinvitedtoparties.

If you were not born as a "ciswoman", I do not want to get physical with you, and I will feel cheated and disgusted if I discover your extremely womanly penis after making out with you.

Fortunately, I think that actual transwomen out in the real world are more willing to consider and respect the reactionary wishes of us cishet monsters than uppity tumblerinas.

[–]ZeroNightskye -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah. It kinda does.

[–]premiumPLUM 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Google: the difference between gender and sex

[–]ZeroNightskye -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yes, but what people often forget is that gender roles are culturally learned. If you have NEVER lived as a woman, never dealt with anything that comes with it because you were born a male, then no amount of cosmetic surgery will ever make you a woman. Because you don't have the lived experience. You can't. You can identify however you want, but that doesn't change reality.

Edit: What I'm trying to say is that trans women will never be full women. They will always have the socialization and perspectives learned from a male point of view. Whereas cis (I hate that term) women have a fully female perspective

[–]premiumPLUM 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Really grasping at that hate and unwillingness to accept something you don't understand there. Good luck with that.

[–]probation_master -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If it matters so much to you, then maybe you should be asking before you make out with anyone.

[–]riptaway 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't want to kiss someone who is transgendered. I feel like that should be explained before the point of any physical intimacy, not just before sex. It's dishonest, and I'd be frankly upset and a bit disgusted. Do whatever you want with your body, but I don't think it's okay to make out with someone under the pretense of being one gender when you're the other

[–]Mejari 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't want to kiss someone who is transgendered

Yet you don't feel like you would be hiding this fact about yourself from the transgendered person you would be kissing by not bringing it up before intimacy? Why is it her job to inform you, but not your job to inform her? Maybe she doesn't want to be intimate with people who don't want to be intimate with transgendered people. Is it your job to inform her of your status?

[–]riptaway 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because there's a difference between your weak attempt at a strawman and being physically intimate with someone who is not the gender you think they are.

What you're talking about is minutae(and stupid). I don't know of every little thing that someone might not find attractive. I can reasonably assume someone wants to know if I'm male or female(or post OP trans). It's the difference between being unaware and purposely being disingenuous.

It's fundamentally dishonest and manipulative to know that someone probably wouldn't be intimate with you if they weren't mistaken about your gender and continuing despite that.

If I have sex with a girl while being HIV positive and I don't tell her, I can reasonably assume that she wouldn't have had sex with me if I told her. I'm deliberately withholding information that would lead to a different outcome. To me, that's straight up unwanted sexual contact.

What would be the difference if I dressed up as a girl, talked like a girl, and made out with a guy who thought I was a girl, revealed myself and responded to their anger with "Well, you thought I was a girl, I don't have to tell you I'm not"? Would it be okay if gay men did that to straight men in order to become sexually intimate with someone who wouldn't otherwise do it?

[–]Mejari -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's fundamentally dishonest and manipulative to know that someone probably wouldn't be intimate with you if they weren't mistaken about your gender and continuing despite that.

Do you have any numbers on whether or not it's "probable" that the majority of people wouldn't be intimate with someone if they were mistaken about their partner's gender, or are you extending your own preferences to all of the world? Is it only sexual minorities that need to be so upfront about everything?

If I have sex with a girl while being HIV positive and I don't tell her, I can reasonably assume that she wouldn't have had sex with me if I told her.

Irrelevant since we're talking about someone who stopped well short before any sexual contact that could transmit such a disease. (plus the fact that being transgender isn't a disease and poses zero additional health risk in sexual intercourse over any other gender)

What would be the difference if I dressed up as a girl, talked like a girl, and made out with a guy who thought I was a girl, revealed myself and responded to their anger with "Well, you thought I was a girl, I don't have to tell you I'm not"?

Well, it depends on if your intent was to deceive them. Your whole thing is about "hiding", which if you're trying to deceive then you are hiding, but if you're just being yourself there is no hiding going on.

Would it be okay if gay men did that to straight men in order to become sexually intimate with someone who wouldn't otherwise do it?

The gay man would be disingenuous by "pretending" to be a girl, this person is actually a girl. If you actually felt that you were a girl then how are you hiding anything?

[–]riptaway 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

All of your points assume that getting a sex change is the same as being born the gender you changed to. Sorry. No dice. Even if you feel that way, it's not okay to assume other people do. It's lying by omission.

If me and a girl were about to have sex, and I knew that she probably wouldn't be willing to do so if she knew a certain fact about me, I feel like telling her beforehand is the right thing to do. Because I think sex should be between two people who genuinely want to regardless of what they know about you, and if you sleep with someone who doesn't know you're trans, there's a very good chance they wouldn't.

My HIV analogy isn't quite perfect, but your argument is basically that if you never found out a person was trans, you would never have a problem with it. But let's say herpes. You have herpes and sleep with someone and don't tell them. They get it, but never have an outbreak. They never find out they even have it. As far as they're concerned, all they did was have sex with someone who was attractive to them.

Is that okay? Same results. No negative consequences, having sex with someone who might say no if you were upfront about something relevant...

[–]Mejari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All of your points assume that getting a sex change is the same as being born the gender you changed to

No, all my points do not assume that. In fact that is completely unrelated to anything I'm saying.

You're arguing against things I didn't say. I never said you shouldn't tell someone before you have sex, in fact I said the opposite. What I said was that she wasn't hiding anything, by which I mean she wasn't necessarily leaving out information about herself in an attempt to deceive. When the thing that was different about her became relevant (i.e. before sex) she stopped and informed. So your "if me and a girl were about to have sex" paragraph is exactly what happened.

So no, your new analogy still is wrong, and it's odd how you keep equating being trans with diseases.

To clarify, since you're veering off topic; All I'm arguing against is your claim that by waiting until when she did (before sex) to notify him about it she was "hiding" something. She wasn't trying to deceive, she wasn't hiding anything on her part, it isn't "lying", it's just not bringing up something that isn't relevant.

[–]bunker_man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's honestly a bad argument, and you know it is. Probably at least half if not more of the population probably has some kind of an issue with it. Even more might be okay with it, but would want to know before hand. That's a different matter than something that is extremely rare, so the average person has no reason to think that this case is that.

[–]Mejari 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know it and you don't know it. You're saying things like "probable", but where are you getting that from, your gut feeling?

[–]Smallpaul 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

She told him at the appropriate time and his reaction was also appropriate. What is your problem?

[–]KaeporaGaebora_ -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

She told him at the appropriate time

The appropriate time to tell him would have been before she kissed him.

his reaction was also appropriate

I don't think we should be getting in the habit of telling sexual assault victims that kindness / forgiveness are appropriate reactions.

[–]sweet_talk_ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think we should be getting in the habit of telling sexual assault victims that kindness / forgiveness are appropriate reactions.

His reaction was appropriate because he knows he actively decided to take part in the kissing. He wasn't sexually assaulted by assuming she had a vagina, for fuck's sake.

Trying to blur the lines like that is harmful to actual victims of sexual assault.

[–]riptaway -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How is after making out with someone the appropriate time to tell them that you are not the gender they thought you were? Is that a serious statement?

[–]brb-dinner 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

exactly this whole thing is just PC bullshit gone mad, so its ok for someone to be completely dishonest with you knowing that 99% of people are going to be confused and likley disgusted yet we should handle the situation completely respectfully when they clearly showed no respect being deceitful to the other person

[–]someone447 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Who was dishonest? The woman who showed her birth sex and told him he should know about it?

Is she supposed to just tell everyone she meets that she is transgendered? Within minutes of things moving in a physical direction she told him. Remember, the vast majority of the time they were talking and had no intention of anything physical happening.

[–]brb-dinner -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

no she should tell anyone who shes kissing and about to engage in sexual intercource with about it before pulling her trousers and waving her dick about thats clearly not telling someone about it

[–]someone447 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'll say she should have just said it instead of showed it. But from my understanding she told him about it right after it started getting physical.

But regardless there was no lying involved.

[–]carBoard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

your username contradicts your response a bit

[–]such-a-mensch -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I disagree. A good gurus one who's good to himself as well as others.

[–]carBoard[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

freaking out in the situation described wouldn't be a nice response that would be good to the other party.