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/r/openbrokeEvidently "interfering with the culture" of a racist subreddit is now a bannable offense on this site. (self.circlebroke)

dhamster が 投稿

A moderator of /r/blackladies was recently shadowbanned in the wake of a wave of trolling the sub experienced from r/GreatApes and r/AMRsucks following the Michael Brown shooting. When the mod made an inquiry to the admins about it they received this message in response:

Honestly, you mess with the normal function of the site, impose your ire on, and interfere with the culture of certain specifically charged subreddits. You do this constantly, and it's been going on for a really fucking long time. I don't know why you keep talking about doxing unless you have a guilty conscience or something, but that's neither here nor there. That's your answer.

More context is here. Not sure if I'm getting the full story there, but it looks an awful lot like the admins are getting more pissed off at the ones being trolled than the trolls themselves.

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[–]vonunov 128 ポイント129 ポイント  (134子コメント)

Lol, interfering with the culture. What is this, Star Trek with the Prime Directive? Got to let the specifically charged racist "cultures" evolve naturally, right?

[–]beanfiddler 108 ポイント109 ポイント  (117子コメント)

That's what's great about shit like this. You know why reddit winds up with the reputation of some shitty message board that's a haven for sexists, creeps, and racists? Because we wind up in the news with back-to-back stories of witch hunting a female game developer, celebrating leaked nudes (some of which are underage), and then banning the moderator of a subreddit for minorities when they fight back against trolls.

Cultures are like bacteria. They evolve when you cultivate the right environment. And reddit is a nice, moist, warm haven for shitbags of every stripe, because admins care more about rules than they do PR and inclusivity.

Except nobody respects you for enforcing rules for the wrong reasons. They'll respect you when you clean your damn house and stop letting bacteria grow up the walls and the ceilings.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (111子コメント)

admins care more about rules than they do PR and inclusivity.

but reddit IS inclusive, just inclusive of groups you dislike.

[–]beanfiddler 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (85子コメント)

That's kind of depressing, but true. Although it kind of destroys their vaunted "neutrality." If you prioritize being a haven to racists over being a haven to minorities, then you're actually building a haven for racists.

I'm using a racist site. I need to stop forgetting that.

[–]tuba_man 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I don't think 'hands off' and 'neutral' are really all that compatible.

Going hands-off lets the loudest, most persistent people set the tone, and over time the community self-selects for people who are able and willing to keep up with that. (4chan's a great example of how extreme it can get) So here you have a group of racists dedicated to harassing a minority group and that minority group just wanting a space to exist in relative peace - saying "Well, I can't interfere, that wouldn't be neutral!" effectively hands the reins over to the racists.

Reddit smooths things out somewhat by allowing communities to create their own spaces, but if the admins wanted to pay more than lip service to neutrality, they'd give those communities better tools to deal with aggressors and enforce their own limits.

[–]happydreamss 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except it is not "hands off", targeting and shadowbanning someone who spoke out against the racist attacks her sub is subjected to sends a clear message: black females are not welcome on reddit.

[–]la_sabotage 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The thing is, reddit is already supposed to have a policy against brigading and harassing other subs.

It's just that, apparently, the admins won't bother enforcing that policy on racists.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (75子コメント)

Although it kind of destroys their vaunted "neutrality." If you prioritize being a haven to racists over being a haven to minorities, then you're actually building a haven for racists.

no, it bolsters the concept of their neutrality! this is literally them being neutral in the application of the site rules.

[–]Imwe 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is neutral, but it ignores the specific circumstances here. It is like saying that laws banning gay marriage are equal, because it bans both straight, and gay, people from marrying the opposite sex. Or to put it in a more suitable context for this topic: it is like saying Congress was neutral when they refused to ban lynching for both White, and Black victims. In a way that is true, but it completely ignores the context of those attacks.

It isn't /r/blackladies that is brigading the white supremacist side of reddit. It is a completely one-sided affair where the mods might not explicitly call for their users to post their racist shit in /r/blackladies, but they have certainly created an environment where their users feel encouraged to make those posts. Of course that makes it difficult for the admins to act because this isn't a situation that is clearly covered by their site rules, and it isn't something that the blackladies mods can adequatley deal with at the moment. The best solution here would involve the admins increasing the tool set for the mods to prevent people from commenting in their subs. For example: a tool to ban beforehand everyone who comments in a certain set of subs. So /r/mensrights can ban everyone who comments in SRS, /r/blackladies can ban everyone who comments in White supremacist subs, and /r/Circlebroke can ban everyone who comments in /r/funny.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For example: a tool to ban beforehand everyone who comments in a certain set of subs

The admins actually specifically discourage this in modiquette.

To your broader point: I honestly think that, back to the OP, is what got Ides banned. Lots and lots and lots of the trolls in greatapes get shadowbanned all the time, trust me, they try to post in srd too. If I had to guess, I'd guess that's what Ides did - tried to play their game.

Which, cool, except they totally do get banned for it when they're caught.

[–]Imwe 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But that is my point. The admins should implement tools that allow for stronger self-segregation. At the moment you get a message if you get banned by the mods which means that banning everyone in a certain sub causes drama. SRS did this for a while, and people were constantly complaining about being banned from SRS while never setting foot in the sub. You should be able to ban people without them knowing. Mods should have a tool which means that everyone who posts in, say, /r/whiterights automatically has their comments put in the spam queue. Right now you can prevent people with too low comment karma from commenting in your sub, but /r/whiterights has their own subs in which they can easily gain karma. Forcing them to gain comment in other subs would mean that it will become much more difficult for them to troll the entire sub.

[–]AdrianBrony 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (57子コメント)

I think we need to stop considering non-action a neutral response. Not doing anything is pretty heavily screwing over some groups in favor of others.

[–]MercuryCobra 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bingo. It's the same as when major gaming celebrities "refused to take sides" over the Quinn fiasco because "both sides are just as crazy/extreme as each other." So they get to look holier-than-thou while essentially supporting the racist, sexist status quo.

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    [–]tuba_man 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (13子コメント)

    This seems like one of those cases where I wonder if the effect of the rules doesn't match the intent of them. Like, racists are invading minority spaces and chasing them off the site in cases like this. If the intent is to allow an open and truly neutral platform for people to create discussion spaces, it's pretty clear that the rules are not achieving it.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    this is an admin saying that greatapes was not brigading blackladies

    [–]tuba_man 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    (Because in the same paragraph, the admin says "brigading is minimal" and "voting on your subreddit is organic", I'm interpreting the statement to mean that 'brigading' only applies to voting.)

    That's what I'm getting at - they're not breaking the rules, but they're still creating hostility in a space that isn't theirs. The rules allow this to take place, which in my opinion prevents the neutrality the site's claiming to aim for.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    your screenshot references comments, and that's actually something reddit has given users tools to help with - the approved-sumbmitter setting.

    [–]tuba_man 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    That's a pretty weak half-measure - it only applies to posts (not comments, which are the primary problem) and it makes it more difficult for new community members to participate.

    [–]BRDtheist 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Does all this analysis the admins do take into account when people move organically to a subreddit and go on a downvote/shitpost spree? I.e. when they don't follow a link.

    And I imagine it doesn't take into account throwaways, which is weak.

    [–]tuba_man 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The response kinda reminds me of when I've got a trouble ticket I don't really want to deal with; (I like to think I'm a hard worker, but I'm lying to myself if I don't say I shirk shit from time to time.)

    I'll go and check the system logs for the word ERROR and respond with "looks fine to me, go reboot or something" so I can get back to whatever I'm doing. Whether or not it gets addressed with anything approaching due diligence depends on how much noise is made by people with checkbooks.

    So yeah, I'd agree and bet 'analysis' is "I logged in and didn't get any alerts, close enough."

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        [–]123456seven89 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (17子コメント)

        Reddit is not inclusive. How do you think it feels to reddit while being black or female? This sight is full of racism, sexism, homophobia you name it.

        What website are you visiting?

        [–]t0t0zenerd 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        It is too inclusive of those hate groups. The continued brigading and attacking from hate groups is making reddit a significantly less enjoyable experience for minorities, in particular black people - aka making it less inclusive.

        I think at some point reddit needs to ask itself if it would rather have white supremacists or black people. But given how much the former throw around reddit gold and site clicks, I fear the decision has already been made...

        [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        And that last part is important. This is, in a lot of ways, a business decision.

        [–]fuckeverything_panda 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        .....but the entire point of this thread is that they just banned someone for being too uppity. In what sense is that inclusive?

        [–]happydreamss 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It is not inclusive of blacks females as this incident revealed.

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          [–]bradleyvlr 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It's not even rules. No rule was broken by the blackladies mod. She was simply banned for being mad about racism.

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            [–]askinnydude 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (14子コメント)

            It's a vague charge, but I can kind of see where they are coming from. The intended business model for reddit is targeted advertisements aimed at groups that have self-segregated themselves. Reddit also saves costs by having those groups handle internal maintenance of content and users as they see fit: work that is unpaid and of no cost to reddit. All reddit the corporation has to do is find ways to direct advertisers to communities.

            A problem is posed when you have radical activists deciding certain communities should be unwelcome on the site. There's nothing wrong with being disgusted with racism or sexism, or all the other frankly disturbing subreddits on the site. However, that cuts into overhead costs because then the admin team has to actively curate what is and isn't allowed: that means payroll employees taking care of it.

            When these activists decide that non-action is not okay, and take things into their own hands by blackmailing other subreddit mod teams into conforming with the SJW vision of the site, that causes problems for reddit. It's driving away potential demographics that advertisers might want to target, and forcing the admin team to arbitrate or police these disputes. That goes against their business model.

            It has little do with the actual cause and everything do with taking that crusade all over the website and into the media. Reddit stands for absolutely nothing but attempting to make money. Racists pay for reddit gold too.

            [–]ominous_squirrel 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            If Reddit is a tool, like a printing press is a tool, then by all means, Reddit should be a haven for free speech and laissez faire standards.

            If Reddit is a culture, or a collection of cultures under one banner, then each individual has a stake in how that culture evolves and harmful groups should be managed by natural forces.

            Reddit as an agnostic money-maker is evilly brilliant. It relies on the "motte-and-bailey" strategy. Reddit relies on the narrative that Reddit is a monoculture to create a feeling of loyalty and belonging that translates into a bountiful profit in the bailey. Criticize Reddit's culture and Reddit retreats to the security of the motte. "Reddit a tool for free speech. Reddit is a collection of diverse individuals."

            Likewise, Reddit profits from the drama inherent in Balkanized, warring sub-Reddits, but also reserves the right to interfere in the evolution of Reddit's monoculture if it looks like the status quo is threatened.

            [–]sleepy55 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            That actually makes a lot of sense concerning how the admins want to run the site. Granted, they are still shitty people for allowing blatant hate speech on their website so they can exploit it for ad dollars, but at least this ties up all the loose ends behind their seemingly mysterious MO.

            I just hate how they try to force this facade of niceness through their official blog posts like encouraging users to give to charity or exchange gifts, and then turn around and actually approve of subs that are racist, sexist, or invade others privacy.

            [–]askinnydude 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            I don't think they're approving of those subs, they're just not actively taking action against them. It's not ideological, it's just business. I feel like circlebroke is kind of missing the mark today and seeing a pro-racism conspiracy where there isn't any.

            I just hate how they try to force this facade of niceness through their official blog posts like encouraging users to give to charity or exchange gifts, and then turn around and actually approve of subs that are racist, sexist, or invade others privacy.

            This is a great point and would have been a more interesting debate, in my opinion. Something like "do you think it is appropriate for reddit the company to take a stand on political issues X, Y, and Z when they are not actively taking a stand against racism?". Or perhaps the treatment of unpaid labor (moderators): should reddit take more care of its volunteer workforce when they are faced with harassment?

            [–]MercuryCobra 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I think at some point we have to acknowledge that inaction is not the same as neutrality. Which is to say that I think the admins' inaction does represent an endorsement of racism and sexism, even if they do not intend to endorse it. When the playing field starts out unlevel, doing nothing is effectively supporting the advantaged group.

            [–]sleepy55 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I never said it was a pro-racist agenda, I agree that it's their business plan. But it's also a shitty business plan to provide access for hate groups to congregate so that they can milk the ad revenue.

            [–]askinnydude 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Oh no, I meant other comments in here, not you. Think we're on the same page.

            [–]Dramatological 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It's not abnormal. Facebook didn't take the yay-rape pages down until advertisers asked to not be on those pages. No ad revenue = no more free speech. When advertisers didn't care (or didn't know), facebook was entirely on the side of the yay-rapists because there were a lot of them, all of them generating dollars every time they stopped by.

            [–]OIP 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (6子コメント)

            conforming with the SJW vision

            being against a sub dedicated to non-consensual photos of underage women is apparently a 'SJW vision'. and driving away potential demographics. and going against a business model.

            o.. fucking.. k then.

            [–]askinnydude 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Wasn't using SJW as a pejorative. I was using that example to show how ideologies clash and create disputes/problems that the admins have to choose how to solve. From a business perspective, it is not advantageous to choose a particular side, even if we all agree that one is probably more ethical than the other. Comments suggesting...

            clean your damn house and stop letting bacteria grow up the walls and the ceilings.

            ... and others like it seem to be suggesting that this is a tacit endorsement of racism by the admin team which I don't think is really the case.

            What does make reddit the company hypocritical is their championing of various political causes (net neutrality, SOPA, same sex marriage) while not taking a similar stance to content on their own site. They seem to want public persona of reddit to be fun and progressive and that doesn't at all match the content on the site. But that's a little bit different and more broad than the banning of one user, and not how /u/dhamster framed the discussion.

            [–]OIP 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            i understand the point of being neutral, but it does amount to tacit endorsement. if a bunch of neo-nazis were congregating at the mall, do you think the management would be saying "well.. they do buy a lot of milkshakes in the food court". of course not, they would be saying "get the fuck out, you people are terrible and it's a bad look for our business".

            on the other side, i'm a pretty firm believer in letting idiots say whatever they want and having it stand on its merits (or massive lack thereof). however i don't know if the way reddit works is a platform which allows that to happen particularly well.

            i definitely agree about the "public persona" of reddit and think it's a real problem for the site.

            [–]askinnydude 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Hmm, I guess I see the mall as reddit letting up any store set up shop so long as they don't fuck with each other. And they save costs by not hiring any security!

            I don't really want to defend their policies though I just thought I'd add a slightly different take to the conversation. I think the intersection of business and politics is pretty interesting, not just reddit but all over the place.

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                [–]shhhhquiet 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                "Interfering with the culture" of other subs is what gets me. They said they didn't see any evidence of 'interference' when /r/blackladies was deluged with racist content, but she, one person, is somehow 'interfering?' With what? Racists' right to be racist in a community for black women?

                They told them to take their sub private to stop the brigading. But one person going and yelling at a bunch of bigots? Why, she might hurt their feelings!

                [–]ZeekySantos 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                They told them to take their sub private to stop the brigading.

                And all this does is isolates the community and shifts the blame to them. "If you don't like being attacked in public, maybe you shouldn't leave your house" is what it's saying.

                "It's not the fault of the people attacking you, no sir. You're interfering with them by giving a goddamn about their attacks on you."

                Fucking why am I still on this site.

                [–]AdrianBrony 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                I think it's the API and general sight design.

                If the community wasn't a shithole right down to the administration, it would be a pretty good website with a really decent capacity for expansion and third party apps.

                [–]usermaim 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I still love the design and idea of Reddit, it's got so much potential. That's why I'm still here. I mean, for instance, I'm interested in fermentation and making vinegar and I'm able to find a community of like-minded people. It's incredible. But I must also admit that the majority of users on the site just rub me the wrong way. Like this recent celeb photo leak scandal just demonstrated once again the creepy user-base of Reddit.

                [–]AdrianBrony 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I think this is a good textbook example of how technological and design prowess can never truly compensate for poor community management.

                [–]ZeekySantos 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I think it's the API and general sight design.

                Yeah, I think I stay here because it's a well designed content generation machine. You wanna see a million pictures of baby sloths and nothing else? You got it.

                [–]AdvocateForLucifer 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You wanna see a million pictures of baby sloths and nothing else? You got it.

                Except for that one time me and a few friends decided to start posting otter pictures there.

                [–]distinctvagueness 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                More like, "if you don't like people vandalizing your house, you shouldn't ever have guests over", as if the vandals were ever invited and cannot be asked to be civil.

                [–]BRDtheist 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Exactly. This is what people aren't getting. I don't know if they know just how much shit places like r/blackladies put up with or what, but this is a case of punishing one prominent person to... I don't know, make an example of them? Because they're "annoying" to you (the admins) whereas the disgusting racists keep themselves out of your hair unless they're put there by said "annoying" user?

                [–]Alexandra_xo 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I don't know if they know just how much shit places like r/blackladies put up with

                I don't think they do. In one of the SRD threads about her being banned (I think that's where I saw it), Ides mentioned that the trolls were sending pictures of beheaded black people to her sub.

                Like that's just so fucked up :(

                [–]BRDtheist 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                That's really, really, REALLY sick. Jesus.

                [–]OIP 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                this is utterly mind-boggling to me. even trying to put myself in the slimy 'getting angry with racists is the same as being a racist' shoes of the admins, it seems like straight up double-standards.

                [–]dantheman_woot 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Call me naive, but I can't believe an official employee of Reddit would use that kind of language with a user.

                [–]RoboticParadox 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Seriously. What a douchecanoe. Even chuckspears got the "polite legalese" version of admin speak back in those modmails, jesus

                [–]Dogeball_new 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Very good point, for comparison check out the ultra-polite and professional warning to /r/niggers about a year ago. And that was after they issued death-threats, vote-brigaded etc:

                Bitcrunch's attempt to secure specifically charged culture of /r/niggers.

                [–]beanfiddler 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                They have to realize that "but Ides was a terrible person!" is not really a good excuse for treating racists cordially and then turning around and talking to someone who mods a sub for minorities like they're trash.

                I mean, nobody's going to take that excuse at face value.

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                  [–]Vecced 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Well that's just depressing.

                  [–]sp0ck06 106 ポイント107 ポイント  (225子コメント)

                  Fuck the admins of this site. Shit like /r/fatpeoplehate and /r/greatapes is perfectly normal and wonderful.... but the slightest hint of "doxxing" and the hammer comes down? Bunch of fucking pussies, both the admins and users.

                  [–]drawlinnn 73 ポイント74 ポイント  (59子コメント)

                  They're so afraid of having their reddit account tied to their real life. Hmmm I wonder why that is....

                  [–]Benthetraveler 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (50子コメント)

                  Yeah I always wondered "whats so dangerous bout doxxing" - turns oit nothing if you are a decent human being. "Look at this ben guy, being subscribed to r/pugs and thinking Russia shouldn't invade Ukraine" - yeah I could get fired from work so fast...

                  [–]redtaboo 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                  "Look at this ben guy, being subscribed to r/pugs and thinking Russia shouldn't invade Ukraine" - yeah I could get fired from work so fast..

                  Or, you know.... "I'm questioning my gender/sexuality/want to have an abortion" etc etc

                  that couldn't cause people issues if tied to their real names, could it?

                  Things aren't so cut and dry like you seem to think. There are crazy people that would love to dox a trans woman and harass her in real life, or a gay man, or a woman wanting an abortion, or, or, or...

                  On top of that with doxxing come the very real possibility that the person doing the doxxing is an idiot and follows the "trail" wrong and some innocent person gets screwed. You may not get fired for being subscribed to /r/pugs, but what if your name some how got mixed up with a confessed pedo or whatever? And a bunch of people called your boss and showed them "proof" it was you?

                  [–]Zoe_Quinn_AmA 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  "what's so dangerous bout doxxing" - turns out nothing if you are a decent human being

                  Staying anonymous online is basic internet safety, regardless of what you post or what subs you are affiliated with.

                  [–]chaanach 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  um no you're stupid doxxing sucks for people regardless of if they're shitty or not

                  I got outed irl from posting, closeted, to ainbow

                  [–]ShrimpFood 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Ouch, how did that go over?

                  But yeah, the person above is just spewing that "You have nothing to hide" spiel that some people like to throw around when NSA or any sort of privacy infringement comes up.

                  [–]chaanach 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  awkwardly. it went super awkwardly. I still get heebie jeebies from that memory

                  [–]beanfiddler 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Uh, no.

                  In my state, it would be totally legal to fire me for the sexual preferences I've stated on this site. Excuse me for not wanting to be doxxed.

                  [–]reese_ridley 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  >subscribed to /r/pugs

                  how can you even sleep at night, you monster

                  [–]Benthetraveler 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  I'm hitting a balance by also being subscribed to r/beagle, r/dachshund, /r/pug and r/corgi.

                  [–]RVLV 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  r/dachshund

                  So, so. Hiding some Nazi sympathies, eh?

                  [–]Benthetraveler 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Actually what you Americans call Dachshund we call Dackel. The name "Dachshund" isn't as known as Dackel.

                  [–]N8CCRG 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  What are you, some kind of heightist? You can't follow any tall dogs?

                  [–]Benthetraveler 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Beagles bro, Beagles.

                  Truth of the matter is I want a beagle, dachshund, pug or corgi, but I can't. 40+ hours of work make it impossible. :/

                  [–]ComedicSans 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                  Did you see the Gawker article posting wedding photos of the Police officer who shot Michael Brown and then asked for information about the officer's current whereabouts in the comments?

                  There's a difference between putting pressure on the authorities to seek justice and calling on a lynch mob to find the guy's house to sidestep the legal process and do it themselves. THAT is the risk of doxxing. A lynch mob isn't justice, even if Michael Brown was murdered in cold blood.

                  [–]weggles 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Doxxing is dangerous because even if you're a reasonable person unreasonable people may disagree with you... and harass you... your family... your friends etc.

                  The internet is full of shitty people.

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                    [–]Zoe_Quinn_AmA 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    Because they're humans, and everyone should be afraid of having their information posted online?

                    [–]Discord_Dancing 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (35子コメント)

                    I'm confused, are you saying that doxxing should be allowed?

                    [–]Paradox 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                    Only if its against people they dont like.

                    [–]Discord_Dancing 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                    That is the vibe I'm getting from this thread.

                    Interesting, yet not surprising.

                    Even the gross nasty racists understand when their friends get banned, but here? It is apparently a civil rights issue.

                    [–]not_impressive 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                    Who did Ides dox?

                    [–]Discord_Dancing 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                    Well, the only actually verifiable case was Puck_Marin. He may have been a huge dick, and deserved what he got, but it didn't change that the rules are the rules.

                    It'd be obtuse to pretend there aren't more (she's been heavily affiliated with the Predditors Tumblr dox blog), as she's blown through three main accounts - that's not including the various alts she's blown through.

                    I will point out - all of the doxees are complete assholes, and were (oh god dare I say it?) asking for it - but the fact remains that Reddit's rules are still reddit's rules, and having your account banned for violating them is inevitable.

                    [–]ComedicSans 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                    And if you tacitly allow users to doxx each other, sooner or later more "Boston Bomber" false identification situations will arise. It's inevitable.

                    [–]Discord_Dancing 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    Precisely.

                    Hell, the Zoe Quinn Drama was a huge example of why the Reddit dox rules should be followed - she was basically witch hunted hardcore and had nude photographs of her spread everywhere and she received death threats. Is that okay? Of course not, and while that happened, the Reddit admins were mindfull enough to ask moderators to remove all of that.

                    Dox rules don't just protect assholes, they protect people who honestly, and seriously, need to fear for their safety when confronted with the internet hate-brigade.

                    [–]david-me 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    This recent drama's have kinda been a slap in the face with the ammount of people not realizing that the Erectile Dysfunction site is banned.

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                      [–]sleepy55 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I mean, it is allowed as long as a precious redditor isn't targeted. But I think he was trying to make a point that they only thing the admins care about is private information being posted while ignoring things like harassment and blatant hate mongering.

                      [–]Discord_Dancing 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I mean, it is allowed as long as a precious redditor isn't targeted.

                      No, it's really not. I mod /r/drama and we deal entirely with offsite drama and unless the link is to a news source, things like twitter / FB / OKC and the like are absolutely not allowed unless it's a screenshot and all usernames are removed.

                      As a mod team, we have had to prove that certain publicly available personal information has been cited by a news source before we were allowed to reapprove a post.

                      Even linking to other forums like Hackernews can at times be considered dox - the dox rules aren't that cut and dry.

                      ignoring things like harassment and blatant hate mongering.

                      Harassment isn't ignored. People who truly brigade in a manner the admins can see are banned if they are reported, and even entire subreddits have been banned for things as silly as mod invite spam - As for PM abuse, I have personally had people banned for spamming my inbox with hatemail - it's not an ignored issue.

                      As for hate mongering, I will of course agree that it's awful, but laying down a blanket rule for something as nebulous as "hatemongering" is something that is simply not realistically enforced.

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                        [–]CharliePancakes 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (60子コメント)

                        I like how great users like unidan who spoke out against racism and debunked racist copypastas while teaching us about science get banned. But offensive subreddits are okay from greatapes to rapingwomen to fatpeoplehate to cutefemalecorpses

                        [–]aryan_crayon 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (56子コメント)

                        it's almost like he broke the site rules... a lot of grasping at straws in here as usual. the guy had 5+ (probably more) accounts that he would use to game the system. apparently this person also has a history of doing things against the rules, you're backing the wrong horse. obviously racist trolls are douchecanoes, but that don't excuse this person's inability to function within the site's rules

                        [–]AdrianBrony 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Perhaps the rules suck.

                        [–]beanfiddler 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                        Pretend this is real life, not some dumb internet board. Protestors do shit like break into private property and free abused animals. Now, if you're a cop, what do you do? You arrest them for trespassing. If you don't arrest the company for animal abuse, you look like you're tacitly approving of animal abuse and expressing your disapproval of protesting against it. Especially if your precinct have lots of laws and ways to punish people for protesting and trespassing, but absolutely no way to punish people for abusing animals.

                        That's what's happening here. There's no punishment and no precedent for punishing racist trolls. Admins only punish people that break their rules, which don't align with common decency. So people whose personal morals do align with common decency have a lot of incentive to break those rules to enforce common decency (not being racist), especially if its the explicit rules of their subreddit (be racist, get banned).

                        But since reddit admins prioritize those internet rules over common decency (doxxing is bannable, racism is not), then it pretty much implies that this site tacitly endorses racism and will punish people that strike out against it or attempt to maintain subcommunities free of racism.

                        YMMV on whether or not that excuses the mod's actions. But 99.99% of the world is going to find that being a racist shitbag directly to minorities in their own space is a worse offense than breaking the arbitrary rules of a internet site who priorities untainted fake internet points over human decency.

                        [–]redwhiskeredbubul 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                        Point being, the admins can't be in the business of enforcing common decency. Just like the law isn't. When they/it is, it has to be with very carefully delimited goals and targets; otherwise their credibility will suffer more.

                        [–]beanfiddler 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        I'm pretty sure that the public would find enforcing the bare minimum of human decency, even poorly, more sympathetic than throwing your hands up and going "fuck it" and justifying laziness with some half-assed unnuanced adherence to "free speech."

                        [–]redwhiskeredbubul 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I'm pretty sure that the public would find enforcing the bare minimum of human decency, even poorly, more sympathetic

                        I'm not. Something like /r/wtf is pretty much systematically about smashing boundaries of decency but that's not been a reason to ban it. The rationale for controlling racism on reddit is that it's socially harmful. The problem is that there's other socially harmful stuff. What about people who use reddit for information about how to cop heroin or whatever?

                        [–]beanfiddler 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        So they'd be open to criticisms of their priorities... how is that any different than now? Not banning anything is a priority, and they're acting as if they're above criticism because they've okayed everything, thus, endorsing nothing.

                        That's not actually how it works. You're always perceived to endorse what you allow to go on under your watch.

                        [–]MercuryCobra 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                        Why can't the admins be in that business? They aren't the government, they can't lock you up. They have absolutely no obligation to provide a forum for any kind of speech. The idea that they need to tolerate bigoted hate speech in order to provide a space for non-bigoted speech is just stupid, and is one that even the government (the entity with the actual obligation to protect speech) doesn't take.

                        [–]redwhiskeredbubul 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                        The idea that they need to tolerate bigoted hate speech in order to provide a space for non-bigoted speech is just stupid, and is one that even the government (the entity with the actual obligation to protect speech) doesn't take.

                        That's not the premise I'm arguing from. What I'm saying is that the ability of the admins to target any high-profile user or sub is limited by what community opinion will bear, regardless of what the underlying rationale is.

                        And I personally think it would be way more productive to build a broad consensus that certain of the most egregious subs on reddit (I don't mean like TRP, I mean worse things) should be taken off, rather than trying to hitch getting anything done to a version of social justice that only a minority of redditors subscribe to. Do the latter, and you're using reddit drama to stir shit up and get attention for social justice, not improve site content.

                        [–]MercuryCobra 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        I guess we fundamentally disagree. Because I have absolutely no problem annoying or alienating even a majority of redditors if those redditors are racist or sexist. As long as we keep setting the ceiling for what ought to be/can be done based on the moral lowest common denominator, we're just perpetuating a shitty culture. And I don't at all buy that dragging redditors into the 21st century by the ear will automatically degrade the quality of content. Nor do I prioritize content quality over not being a human cesspit.

                        [–]redwhiskeredbubul 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                        Except we don't agree on what we disagree on. I'm saying the admins don't have the ability to address the problem.

                        [–]MercuryCobra 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        How don't they have the ability? They could ban all subreddits but /r/aww tomorrow and shutdown comments. reddit could become a personal blog for any one of the admins' goldfish. It could just be an endless loop of that prairie dog looking over his shoulder. Literally anything is within their power here. That it isn't feasible to do so, or that it is against their business model (which is still failing IFAIK) does not make them unable to do so. It makes them unwilling to do so.

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                          [–]OIP 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          their credibility? with who? the international internet points distribution fairness tribunal?

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                            [–]CharliePancakes 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                            I know he broke the rules but its funny how unidan and this woman get banned for breaking the rules while hate subreddits exist that participate in regular raids and harassment of other subs. They can forgive wannabee kkk members but not a man who actively improved the site.

                            [–]LatinArma 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                            its simple. All you need to know are these two facts

                            1) The only serious offense on reddit is vote manipulation/brigading 2) Reddit has a hateful user base.

                            People spewing hate don't need vote manipulation, it spreads like wildfire.

                            People spewing anything else, be it their benign blog, science, or tolerance tend to be draw towards vote manipulation to proliferate it. Bigots don't need to do that.

                            Now there is nothing wrong with banniing vote manipulation, but where i live in the world the use of "free speech" is not a valid way to circumvent "hate speech". However reddit subscribes to the 14 year old libertarian view of free speech which works wonders when coupled with an environment of anonymity and consequence-free behavior.

                            [–]beanfiddler 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                            Add to that the dumb fucking idea that reddit and the admins are not responsible for what's on reddit because it's "user-generated content" and they're all for free speech, man.

                            They really want us all to forget they could just flip a switch and ban whomever the fuck they want.

                            [–]Fab500 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            wanting the small admin team to police every single comment and account made on reddit

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                                [–]chaanach 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                Those users get shadowbanned all the time though. It's just not as noticeable since nobody likes them.

                                [–]t0t0zenerd 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                The /r/blackladies mod came with a list of people who regularly brigade her sub and weren't shadowbanned, though.

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                                  [–]MillenniumFalc0n 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  Well one of these things is against the rules, and one isn't. Though there is certainly room to argue about what the rules should be.

                                  [–]Benthetraveler 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Raids, brigading, vote cheating and harassment are certainly against the rules. Admins are just powerless because it's mostly smurf accounts so admins don't bother. And they are too much of a pussy to just take a stance. I doubt that the admins are really racist, they just hide behind bullshit instead of admitting that they just don't give a fuck.

                                  [–]slyder565 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I think that is what this person is trying to say.

                                  [–]Discord_Dancing 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Amen.

                                  This entire thread is confounding.

                                  [–]BRDtheist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                  The point is that at least Unidan did SOME good while he broke the rules. These people are pure horrific shite and get away with it all for the most part.

                                  [–]Discord_Dancing 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                  "These people" get banned on the reg. Their account names are a constant revolving door.

                                  Their subs don't get banned because they don't run brigades out of their mod mails.

                                  They don't get away with anything, they get banned like everyone else - they just don't care because they're all basically alts.

                                  [–]MercuryCobra 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                  So then why not utilize IP bans? Or recognize that their subreddits aren't protected by anything more than admin apathy, and so could be shut down no problem regardless of the rules?

                                  [–]Discord_Dancing 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                  Reddit does utilize IP bans. Tons of people have been IP banned. All one must do is change their IP to circumvent it. It takes minutes to do so. You literally cannot ban a person from a website.

                                  Are you new?

                                  [–]MercuryCobra 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                  You know I'm not. But I'll admit to being somewhat undereducated about the methods the admins use to moderate their site. And can you blame me, considering how little moderation they seem to actually do?

                                  Regardless, there is always a method of making this harder for shitheads than most shitheads are willing to deal with. Plenty of other sites manage to keep discourse relatively hate speech free, even large ones. I'm not at all willing to give the admins a pass just because they're doing something, when they're clearly not doing enough.

                                  I know you've been up and down this thread arguing that rules are rules. And trust me, that is an argument with which I am incredibly sympathetic. But I'm less upset about how the rules apply here as I am about the rules themselves. The admins could choose to start giving a shit about something more than fake internet points and personal information if they wanted to. That they don't is what is damning them, not an injudicious application of the pre-existing rules.

                                  [–]Discord_Dancing 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                  But I'll admit to being somewhat undereducated about the methods the admins use to moderate their site.

                                  They have four rules - it is not incredibly hard to internalize them if you're going to spend any amount of time here.

                                  The fact remains that you seem to think that the rules should not apply to people whom you deem shitty, and while that would be nice, what you deem to be shitty relies upon context and personal opinion, and while wishing all of Reddit's rules didn't exist so you could exact your personal indignation upon people you deem to be shitty would be super nice for you, it also opens up a multidude of avenues for those same shitty people to harm those that you would most likely not deem shitty.

                                  Reddit's rules exist so that we cannot harm people, and that's a good thing.

                                  You can't whine about there being rules just because they protect people you don't like, because those same rules protect those that you do like.

                                  [–]MercuryCobra 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                  Look, I understand neutral rules. I'm not asking that the rules be reconstructed just to deal with people I don't like. I'm asking that they be expanded to protect even more people from harm.

                                  Let's be clear here: I'm not arguing about shitty people. I'm not saying that everyone I disagree with should be banned.

                                  I am saying that racists, sexists, and members of hate groups should not be tolerated. This isn't hard. Hell, it isn't even ambiguous. Because those people do actual, measurable harm to the level of discourse, the quality of content, and most especially the users.

                                  What I'm saying is that the rules are not good enough to protect people from harm. In fact, I think the rules do quite the opposite, acting instead to shield the people doing the harm from ever facing any consequences for their actions. Which is to say, I think the rules encourage harm, not discourage it.

                                  You can keep painting me as some outrageous person seeking to silence everyone I disagree with. But I'm not. I am only asking that this site not throw its weight behind people that are doing demonstrable harm to other users in an effort to feign neutrality.

                                  Edit: Also, the rules they operate under are very different from the methods they use. I am aware of the rules. I was not aware that they could, for instance, use IP bans. Or if they could use some other method of enforcing the rules.

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                                      [–]nancyfuqindrew 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Jesus, the whole fappening phenomenon with stolen pictures some of them underage. This is perfectly ok on Reddit.

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                                        [–]RoboticParadox 131 ポイント132 ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                        lel reddit admins can go fuck themselves

                                        something tells me intortus got budged out because he had a goddamned conscience.

                                        [–]FullClockworkOddessy 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                        Turns out that the only people left who want reddit on their resumés are typical redditors chasing the ultimate impotent power trip.

                                        [–][deleted] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        My time on reddit has taught me that admins don't care until Anderson Cooper makes them look bad. The complaints and concerns of users don't get any attention.

                                        I have no idea what the admins want for this site, but it's not one where everyone can feel comfortable. It's definitely not one where I feel comfortable.

                                        Actually, Fuck it. I'm done.

                                        [–]awesomemanftw 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        just because he/she got pushed out does not make Intortus a good person.

                                        [–]RoboticParadox 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Seems cool enough to me. Never had an unpleasant interaction with him, and I loooooooooove the SRS conspiracies that follow his name on default reddit

                                        [–]reese_ridley 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                        Yeah, it must be because the admins are racists! DualPollux did nothing wrong, especially not break the rules over and over

                                        [–]IAmAN00bie 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                        I don't think intortus got fired (other admins confirmed that he left on good terms), but I think it's clear that intortus left at least partly because he disagreed with how the admins were running the site.

                                        [–]RoboticParadox 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Not racist, but #1 with racists!

                                        [–]t0t0zenerd 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        The only part the reddit admins apparently challenge is the first one...

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                                            [–]ZombieHeyHeyHeyHeyOh 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                            Oh hey the admins are possibly mistreating someone who happens to be a black woman? Well that automatically makes this an SJ issue, take it to openbroke!

                                            [–]BRDtheist 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                            She doesn't "happen" to be a black woman. The whole brigading/trolling thing is happening because of race, and a lot of what DualPollux does on reddit that has apparently pissed the admins off so much is to do with race and racism. I may be off base here, but I don't think race can be seen as irrelevant.

                                            Having said that: this is bigger than a CJ, and big regardless of the racism involved, and shouldn't just be shoved over into OB.

                                            [–]Discord_Dancing 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                            Just because she was banned for breaking the rules for reasons we agree with doesn't mean she still didn't break the rules.

                                            [–]gavinbrindstar 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                            TIOL has been shadowbanned for doxxing before, she brigades, she does all of the things that a person would usually get banned for, and she was banned.

                                            And is there any proof, or is it just the VA Mobius all over again?

                                            [–]Discord_Dancing 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                            I edited that because there is no way in hell im digging around for her old Puck_marin screenshots (which I will admit was fucking hilarious).

                                            I agree with TIOL and her cause, but if you're gonna toe the line then at some point you have to get over the fact that you may get banned. No?

                                            [–]hatmoose 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            ok what rule

                                            [–]RoboticParadox 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            I mean...the king of CB submitted this. Looks like an especially shitty case then.

                                            [–]BRDtheist 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            As much as this is shitty and definitely worth talking about, I am finding it quite funny that the first post after the meta sticky stating "no more SJ posts" is.... a SJ post.

                                            Not that I mind. I love complaining about bigotry! I don't have much to say on this topic though because, well, it's just baffling me. I can't wrap my head around it.

                                            [–]fourcrew 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            I think we can make exceptions for special cases like this.

                                            [–]BRDtheist 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            I figured as much, it just gave me a giggle that's all!

                                            [–]reese_ridley 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            You merely adopted the social justice; circlebroke was born in it, molded by it.

                                            [–]Dogeball_new 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Admins are apparently trying so hard to keep holding the "middle ground" and appearance of being "neutral" that they ended being pro-racist, pro-creep assholes. And still they are somehow unable to see what they have become.

                                            I hope the poor white supremacists will not have precious subreddit culture broken by AMR and SRS!

                                            [–]FrugalNinja 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            If AMR or SRS tries anything they will have their subreddits banned in an instant and you know it. Only way reddit can change is if the culture changes.

                                            [–]geoff- 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            I don't know what like any of the acronyms in this thread mean I think this is a good sign that web culture has progressed faster than I can keep up which means I'm getting old which means I am dying.

                                            And drama in real life is weird. Drama on the internet with strangers is really really really really weird.

                                            Add the rampant racism and sexism and I think my 8 years of reddit has just met its end.

                                            Do I retire to yahoo or something where do I go

                                            [–]DorianNewgang 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            You start sharing /r/forwardsfromgrandma stuff on facebook

                                            [–]IRS_RAPE_KIT_NOW 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Do I retire to yahoo or something where do I go

                                            usenet

                                            [–]Benthetraveler 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                            I find it ironic that the admin in question is called krackers. Kristine Smith is actually in "Advertising Support" so no idea why she would even handle this.

                                            Oh wait.

                                            [–]RoboticParadox 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            I don't get it...

                                            [–]Benthetraveler 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Cause she is full of shit.

                                            [–]RoboticParadox 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            Oh...

                                            I'm honestly more surprised a woman did the banning. You figure a non white dude would be a little more empathetic about issues of hateful conceited bastards brigading designated safe spaces but lel nope

                                            [–]TheVoiceofTheDevil 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            I would be okay if this site stopped existing. I sometimes like using it. I have subreddits that I like. But it would probably be for the best.

                                            [–]Tacodude 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                            Admins, please go fuck yourselves.

                                            [–]Benthetraveler 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                            They are fucking themselves. It's 10 years and this shitsite still hasn't turned any profit. At one point people will just realize that a bunch of angry creepy young males that share cp and other shit on a site aren't the best target to be monetized. And they will stop funding this garbage. And anybody working at reddit can go find a new job and when asked he can talk about this great project he worked on. Will especially be funny for the community managers.

                                            The smart kids already got out long ago.

                                            [–]CharliePancakes 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                            Has it really not turned any profit? With the sheer amount of users?

                                            [–]LemonFrosted 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            Profit on the internet is paradoxical.

                                            You need a huge userbase to monetize (or you need to very efficiently monetize a small user base) but that increases your infrastructure overhead. It's very, very easy for that overhead to out-strip the returns from monetization.

                                            I help run a small website and we would actually make less money if our audience doubled because we'd need to upgrade our hosting setup, which would cost more per month than the ad revenue gains from increased traffic.

                                            [–]CharliePancakes 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Interesting. I guess thats why they whore out the gold so much nowadays. I figured theyd be able to sell data to advertisers for money too.

                                            [–]LemonFrosted 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            Selling data is an odd duck, because you need the right kind of data.

                                            I obviously don't know for certain, but it's a reasonable assumption that Reddit doesn't yield a whole ton of directly saleable data, only incidental demographics. Like it's not collecting names and addresses, just general age ranges and interests. Facebook and Google are amazing at both of those, but Reddit is only good at the second. That drives down the price they can ask for their data.

                                            [–]TheFrigginArchitect 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Reddit only has two fields on its registration page, username and password. To collect data to submit to advertisers you would generally have age, sex, and zip.

                                            [–]Benthetraveler 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Users are cost, especially if you run so little advertisement. Ads are also poorly managed on reddit.

                                            They planned to be on the green in Q3 this year I think but we've heard that plenty of time.

                                            [–]jerkfirecracker004 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            So that makes you.... ?

                                            [–]Benthetraveler 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Smart kids as in employees. Luckily I don't work for reddit.

                                            [–]chaanach 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            No don't say that

                                            that user in the screenshot gets banned all the time for doxxing and causing massive shitstorms. That part is left out so that the admins seem all evil and whatever

                                            search up idesoflight on SRD or /r/drama or whatever.

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                                              [–]terminusbound 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                              Let me just sum up this discussion for anybody just checking in and filtered to new.

                                              1. Reddit has violent racist agitators who openly call for genocide and the like but they buy gold, so....Nobody knows what to do next

                                              2. Some mod from /r/blackladies got banned for doxxing somebody, I think. Probably complaining about one of the guys who was sending pics of beheaded black people, which is pretty evil, but he probably buys gold....

                                              3. As a black redditor (myself) looks like I am shit out of luck and the brown shirts have a new Der Strumer here, again, because they bought it with gold and such.

                                              Pretty much sums it up I think. if anybody is checking in this late I would love some feedback.

                                              Edit:

                                              looks like I am shit out of luck

                                              Because I don't buy enough gold:( I hope I don't get lynched some day for not buying enough gold because that would really interfere with my work schedule. Seriously.

                                              [–]happydreamss 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              She was not banned for doxing. The original post contains the message she received from an admin about why she was targeted and banned. Yet they never said she doxed someone.

                                              [–]terminusbound 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              The message she received doesn't make any goddamned sense. Can you explain it to me?

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                                                [–]I_love_Hopslam 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                Is there a circlejerk?

                                                [–]mybaltimoreaccount 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                The admins and the racists seem to be getting pretty hot and heavy with one another.

                                                [–]Benthetraveler 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                You could say...circles are being formed.

                                                [–]Paradox 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Whats funny is, the "racists" as you put it feel the exact opposite. You could probably find "the admins and sjws seem to be getting pretty hot and heavy with one another" in one of their shithole subreddits

                                                [–]AskedToRise 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                An officially sanctioned one

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                                                  [–]die_civ_scum 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  So reddit is now officially a hate site.

                                                  [–]FullClockworkOddessy 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  It's been Stormfront's main outreach site for years now.

                                                  [–]joeymac101 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  I love this site but I also loathe it. As someone who doesn't fit reddit's "main demographic", there are times I feel like this place isn't really meant for me.

                                                  [–]AssassinAragorn 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  The Admins need to seriously institute into Reddiquette that subreddits which are built on the hate or otherwise prejudicial dislike of any race, sex, ethnicity, orientation and etc are unwelcome and will be removed. There's usually a clear line between an unpopular opinion and absolute prejudicial dislike, and the Admins need to make it clear that the second shouldn't be protected on Reddit.

                                                  [–]316nuts 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                                  Not sure if I'm getting the full story there

                                                  you're not.. but.. carry on anyway

                                                  [–]zweli2 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  care to elaborate?

                                                  [–]YouArentReasonable 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                  http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/2ff17g/meta_the_admins_are_now_banning_black_women_who/

                                                  [–]Jai_Guru_Deva 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  This really fucks me up on the inside. I can just imagine how she feels, having to deal with this bullshit and then having the "authorities" who are supposed to help her, turn on her. It must feel really fucking claustrophobic and depressing as hell.

                                                  [–]RoboticParadox 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Fucking hell that admin is a simpering little prick

                                                  That thread made me so angry. IOL/dualpollux was always one of my favorite users, she did nothing to deserve this.

                                                  [–]dhamster[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                  http://i.imgur.com/Aopepn6.jpg

                                                  I looked in the threads in /r/SRSsucks and /r/AMRsucks that popped up in "other discussions" but I couldn't find anything in there that shed further light on the ban. I'd be happy to edit my post if I'm missing something.

                                                  [–]srdidan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                  Some /r/AMRsucks users said they reported /u/dualpollux to the admins for sending harassing PMs and brigading one of their threads around the time she was shadowbanned.

                                                  The SRS writeup is ridiculous. I really, really doubt she was shadowbanned for speaking out against racist harassment. She appears to have a history of breaking rules herself (she's been shadowbanned before as /u/theidesoflight). My guess is the admins were short with her because they knew she knew what she was doing.

                                                  [–]syllabic 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                  Also running a tumblr to doxx redditors but hey she's on our side so FUCK YOU ADMINS GO TEAM SRS /jerkjerkjerk

                                                  People here cheer the admins when they ban people they don't like, and cry like babies when they ban someone they do like. Nobody here cares about the rules really, they only care that they are enforced as a weapon in their favor.

                                                  [–]nightride 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Nobody here cares about the rules really, they only care that they are enforced as a weapon in their favor.

                                                  I'll gladly admit to that actually. Reddit's little racist problem is far more significant and serious than its arbitrarily enforced shitstorm of a rulebook. Anytime the admins care to show they're still committed to being wilfully dense is a time I'll gladly voice my disappointment and anger about it.

                                                  [–]RoboticParadox 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  Honestly. People trying to defend the admins because "well it's not like they're ACTIVELY endorsing racist shit". Newsflash: not speaking out against it is allowing it safe harbour

                                                  [–]drawlinnn 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                  And what tumblr is this?

                                                  [–]MillenniumFalc0n 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  It was named predditors

                                                  [–]reddit_feminist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  when was it established she was responsible for predditors?

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                                                    [–]gavinbrindstar 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    She was shadowbanned as Ides for the "crime" of having an alt, which something that is so incredibly common on this site that banning for it is just ridiculous. Many people have alts, admit to having alts, and aren't banned. The alt thing was an excuse, she was banned for being visible.

                                                    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    You're just making up a story and pretending it's fact!

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                                                      [–]Killfuck_Soulshitter 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Interfering with the culture is the reasoning they use but when people invade meta reddits they're untouched. I don't think I've disliked the admins more than now.

                                                      [–]Vladith 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      While what happened to her is shitty, isn't it the same policy that allowed the mods to finally close /r/niggers and even jailbait?

                                                      [–]Benthetraveler 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      Mods don't close anything. Admins do - and admins dictate the policy, so if they wanted to shut down /r/niggers or jailbait earlier they just could have.

                                                      Both those subreddits got banned because they generated too much media attention.

                                                      [–]cleoqkazoo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      So what you're saying is we need a buzzfeed post of '50 horrible subreddits reddit likes'

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                                                        [–]Bull3tM0nk3y 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Fuck the admins. I normally defend the admins, as they try to do their best, but fuck this. She was not in the wrong here.

                                                        [–]BurningBushJr 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Isn't this post a prime example of why thus sub went private earlier this week? How is this a circlebroke material? Shouldn't this be moved to subredditdrama?

                                                        [–]stormin5532 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Jesus. And when i thought reddit was shaping up.

                                                        [–]TheZigerionScammer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I've always been under the opinion that the mods should take active steps to remove and ban comments that are blatantly racist or misogynist. This is literally the only forum I have been too that doesn't do this, and it keeps the racist and sexist drivel from coelescing into the levels we see here on Reddit.

                                                        [–]IRS_RAPE_KIT_NOW 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Meh. As much as I dislike the reactionary hubs on reddit, I know that user has a long history of trying to start shit. I don't think an admin has been caught out here, at least going by this snapshot alone.

                                                        [–]SithisTheDreadFather 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Are Reddit Admins SRS shills or racists? Certainly the conniving SRS leaders wouldn't dare let the admins, who are totally on the take for not banning the subreddit, get away with this.

                                                        I can't keep up. :(

                                                        [–]FistofanAngryGoddess 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I've known Ides/Dual for a while and it sucks that she got banned over this. It will forever baffle me why calling out the people who do wrong is somehow seen and treated as worse than the actual wrong doers. Is it really that bad to rock the boat?

                                                        [–]ZeekySantos 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        Honestly, you mess with the normal function of the site, impose your ire on, and interfere with the culture of certain specifically charged subreddits.

                                                        Specifically Charged Subreddits

                                                        That is thin code for racist subreddits. Nothing more. An actual Reddit employee typed out "we don't like you because you interfere with specifically charged subreddits".

                                                        Like, that actually happened, a reddit employee said "Stop hurting the feelings of racists, of hate criminals, stop interfering with those who would verbally harass and abuse you based on the colour of your skin."

                                                        A reddit employee defended racism and hate speech.

                                                        Reddit employs racists.

                                                        Fuck this website.

                                                        [–]Paradox 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                        If the hypocrisy here was a bell, you could hear it around the world. Jesus christ. Everyone jerking here cheers when the admins (cough intortus) bans anyone they dislike, but as soon as they ban someone you like, the admins are literally shit right?

                                                        Don't know why I'm so upset, its always been apparent that double-standards were a key component of SJW beliefs

                                                        [–]IAmAN00bie 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                        DualPollox/TheIdesOfLight deserved the ban and is being disingenuous for pretending she didn't break any rules, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a point here.

                                                        reddit does have a racist user problem, and the problem starts with the admins and mods who let it happen because of some misguided principle of total free speech.

                                                        There are many subreddits that openly allow r/greatapes moderators to post racist content. Subreddits that let really old Stormfront copypasta hit the top comment with hundreds of upvotes and gold. Could there be trolls or brigading causing it all? Maybe sometimes, but the fact that it happens consistently shows a greater problem with the userbase. Stormfront bans the use of racial slurs. You can get away with calling people niggers on reddit more so than on Stormfront of all places.

                                                        People have been harping on this issue for years, and just because someone like DualPollux brings it up doesn't invalidate the point.

                                                        [–]reese_ridley 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                        I think there's hypocrisy on both sides here.

                                                        For one thing, it seems like the majority of people in here are defending DualPollux's right to use the site. Seems to me like she broke the rules and deserved to get banned. Simple as that.

                                                        Now, I also definitely agree that there's a bigger issue here with the people who AREN'T getting banned. I do wish the admins would do more to crack down on the racism/sexism/what have you, and think they could do a much better job of being consistent.

                                                        [–]beanfiddler 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        Well, that's kind of the point. Admins have rules for doxxing and inferring with precious fake internet points.

                                                        A bunch of racist trolls invade a minority subreddit? Eh fuck it. We can't deal with it.

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                                                          [–]reese_ridley 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          sometime I wish that circlebroke wasn't quite so high-effort so I could just reply to this post with a reaction face

                                                          but yeah, literally this

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