58
59

A bunch of subs cosign a letter stating that "reddit has a racist user problem." This gets cross-posted to /r/amrsucks, who are skeptical. DualPollux shows up to defend it. (np.reddit.com)

IAmAN00bie が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
ベスト
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]Titan_Transcendent 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (91子コメント)

Note that /u/DualPollux does now appear to be shadowbanned. No idea if it's due to this thread or not.

[–]ReBurnInator 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (40子コメント)

It looks like /u/diehtc0ke, mod of /r/debateAMR was in that thread and is also sb'd. Wouldn't be surprised if the admins took it as an AMR brigade, considering all of the daggers in the thread and dualpollux having the top comment.

[–]Imwe 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You're probably right. Both of them shadowbanned at the same time, after this thread happened cannot be a coincidence. If I'm correct, there was a third person from AMR in that thread, so if they are shadowbanned too then it is clear what the admins have done.

[–]ThrowGoGoGo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The third one, /u/Wrecksomething, isn't banned.

[–]Olbrecht -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They probably didn't vote.

I'm pretty sure that /u/dualpollux has been banned for this sort of thing before. You'd think she'd learn.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Imwe 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I can't imagine both of them having alts which they use to upvote their own comments. Both of them have experience on Reddit so they know that the admins don't allow that. It must've been because they were posting in that thread, and perhaps the conflict continued in PMs too.

    [–]Olbrecht 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (33子コメント)

    OK, maybe I don't understand "brigade" rules.

    If I comment in a thread I can vote in it, right? Even if I'm not subscribed to the sub? Or is that not allowed?

    I ask because /u/duallpollux commented in that thread so I'm not sure she could be SB'd for voting in that thread.

    I wonder if she linked the thread in AMR modmail or something? That could explain the ban.

    There's also a male Daily Dot reporter modded to /r/blackladies now. Is it possible she passed him some doxx? I mean, we know that AMR doxxes... it's been proven in the past. It's not a stretch to think that she would doxx since she was a mod of AMR.

    Edit: /u/cupcake1713 can you answer the question above (in bold) for us? Also, care to comment on why /u/dualpollux was shadowbanned?

    [–]Imwe 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The rule is "don't brigade", but what that exactly means is unclear. It's basically a stick which can be used to hit you when the admins want to. First the things that are clear: you cannot post a thread asking for upvotes in other subs, or asking that people come help you in other subs. It is also clear that you cannot follow a link here in SRD, and vote in linked threads. You are allowed to comment, or at least bans for commenting in linked threads are rare. It is disapproved of in SRD to comment in linked threads but that is a rule the mods enforce, and not the admins.

    However, it is unclear whether if you follow a link that says: "look at this stupid post", if voting/commenting in that thread that counts as brigading. Probably not if you're the only one doing it, and voting is always more likely to get you banned than commenting. Being subscribed to a sub probably makes a difference, but it is unclear just how much difference it makes. To be completely safe you shouldn't vote in any thread you entered through a link.

    [–]DoritosMan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    So what if I see a link here on SRD for a subreddit I'm already subscribed (let's say r/pics or r/games) and then realize it's an interesting article or discussion I want to comment on (not brigade, but actually take part in the discussion)?

    Do I have to open up a new tab and make my way to the same article straight from the original subreddit? Or is it "too late" because I've already clinked a link to that page once before?

    [–]Imwe 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It shouldn't make much of a difference if you open up a new tab, or if you just remove the np. I'm pretty sure the admins can see that you entered the thread already once before through SRD. You can enter the discussion if you've got something to add, but it isn't a good idea to enter the fight, or to increase the drama. So if you say: "look at this scientific article which says that water is indeed H2O"; then that is a different situation then if you just comment: "Fuck you, you stupid fuck. Water is H2O. Did your mother smoke a lot when she was pregnant?". So if you don't enter the threads just to fight, or to downvote everyone who disagrees with you, then you should be fine.

    [–]DarkL1te 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Also, loads of people follow metabot back to SRD and comment / vote here.

    Why isn't that shadowbannable? It's just as much brigading as if SRD linked to a post and we all piled in to vote.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Why isn't that shadowbannable?

    it is. happens all the time.

    [–]Olbrecht 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    My guess? Probably because of the nature of SRD. It's kinda hard to stop people from coming here and commenting if you link a post back to SRD.

    [–]eberkneezer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Technically it is hard because I think they only log the last referring page. So it is hard to differentiate between SRD users visiting the thread and returning to SRD to comment and brigaders from the external community hopping on the metabot.

    I think the reddit user agreement hints at the extent of the tracking they do and that you consent to.

    I also think SRD mods don't object to it too much as the comments usually add to the drama and external voting tends not swing SRD much.

    [–]Titan_Transcendent 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is the best we have at the moment.

    [–]Werner__Herzog 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Edit: /u/ cupcake1713 can you answer the question above

    Idk if anyone told you already, or better yet if someone told /u/DualPollux already, but in case of a shadowban it's not the best to idea to pm an admin or to summon them with a username mention. When you are shadowbanned it's best to contact all the admins via /r/reddit.com modmail admin-mail. I think they'll have a better chance at an explanation on what exactly they did wrong.

    [–]larrylemur 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Commenting is better than voting, but neither is better than either. If that makes any sense.

    [–]Saganomics 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (19子コメント)

    I mean, we know that AMR doxxes... it's been proven in the past.

    is it Known Truths From Top Men?

    [–]Headpool 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hey, just because none of the doxxing was ever actually posted in AMR and the admins never said whether doxxing actually occured doesn't mean this shouldn't be brought up in every single AMR topic here by the same weirdly obsessed poster.

    [–]Olbrecht -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (17子コメント)

    Clearly you missed the whole /u/sworebytheprecious debacle a couple of weeks ago.

    [–]Saganomics 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (16子コメント)

    Oh so what you really meant to say was "we know that a person who reads a thing I don't like doxxed someone... it's been proven in the past." I see.

    [–]aceavengers 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    These people will hate AMR no matter what even though some MR mods approve of doxxing but you know.

    [–]Saganomics 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's pretty funny to watch them jump through hoops to demonize AMR when these people are the first in line to complain about members of their own pet groups being generalized. But it's not the same thing because of reasons! Ignore the Elam behind the curtain.

    [–]aceavengers 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ignore the Farrell. Just stare at the butt let it hypnotize you.

    [–]zxcv1992 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Edit an admins name into what you wrote, it gives them an alert I think. Then ask them.

    Also I think you can comment but not vote.

    [–]Olbrecht 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Done. I've thrown up the /u/cupcake1713 signal. Let's hope she answers the call.

    [–]HokesOne 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (35子コメント)

    Apparently demanding that site administration give marginalized people the tools to remove bigots from their community is totally unacceptable.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    honestly, "demanding" that the admins make changes to help you is not reasonable, no.

    that said, I have only seen half of a practical idea float out of any of this. what's your idea for a sitewide "tool" that could help?

    [–]HokesOne 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    They could make ban evasion less trivial by preventing accounts created by the same IP as banned users from posting in those subs.

    They could stop offering safe harbor to obvious hate communities.

    They could create a reporting system where case numbers are issued so that you could keep track of the status of an issue instead of crowding your fingers that one of the admins is reading modmail and is willing to take action.

    They could take responsibility for the platform they operate and stop defending abusers and telling marginalized people to suck it up.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    hmmm, I'm going to spitball this and I hope you don't mind.

    I think the #1 issue with all this is the fact that reddit is still unprofitable, with a very small staff and an infrastructure that from all reports is held together with a paperclip and a dude holding a pair of TV set bunny ears.

    The functions you discuss aren't easy code, either. That's a lot of back-end bullshit that you'd have to completely rewrite, as opposed to lots of relatively cosmetic changes like "contest mode". And from a business perspective, you've gotta make changes that have a better chance of making you money, especially because you're still losing money. Or at the very least, not making it.

    They could make ban evasion less trivial by preventing accounts created by the same IP as banned users from posting in those subs.

    This would be tough from a practical point of view, given how many large networks share IPs. Hell, the entire country of Serbia shares like 14 of them or something, or at least did relatively recently. It's why chucking is such a huge deal - fucking around with IPs is not something to take lightly.

    They could stop offering safe harbor to obvious hate communities.

    We're both thinking of some that could be removed without much issue, but removal also creates a lot of overhead, because tracking these trolls quickly becomes a game of whack-a-mole for a small community staff, like reddit has.

    They could create a reporting system where case numbers are issued so that you could keep track of the status of an issue instead of crowding your fingers that one of the admins is reading modmail and is willing to take action.

    I mod here in SRD so I report LOTS of stuff to the admins, and even I know that they just do not have the resources to do this. I'd also consider that this creates a digital trail not just for you, but for other people who would love to paint narratives different from yours.

    [–][deleted] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The functions you discuss aren't easy code, either. That's a lot of back-end bullshit that you'd have to completely rewrite, as opposed to lots of relatively cosmetic changes like "contest mode".

    What specifically would be difficult? Case tracking software wouldn't even need to be integrated. It could be as simple as using free bug tracking software and messaging people their case numbers. Or were you referring to something else?

    I don't think this is a hard problem to solve, honestly. It's not like reddit is the only online community ever to have existed. Every social forum has to deal with trolls, and then only ones that seem to really struggle with it are the ones that are openly sympathetic to trolls.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    What specifically would be difficult? Case tracking software wouldn't even need to be integrated. It could be as simple as using free bug tracking software and messaging people their case numbers. Or were you referring to something else?

    I talk about ticketing later in my comment. The volume of modmail they get is almost certainly overwhelming for a small team that deals with many social issues at a time. To add this amount of overhead would be significant.

    Every social forum has to deal with trolls, and then only ones that seem to really struggle with it are the ones that are openly sympathetic to trolls.

    Which websites are you thinking about when you write this?

    [–][deleted] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Maybe we are envisioning different things, then. Presumably admin already has some type of tracking in place, because tracking makes it easier to manage your backlog, not harder. Adding in some kind of auto-message feature with a unique case number is trivial. That doesn't even need to be integrated into reddit per se. That could be done with free bug tracking software and a custom web client script.

    What websites am I thinking about? Literally every website that allows comments. vBulletin. Wordpress. Facebook. Every online news source in existence. Literally any site that allows comments has to deal at minimum with auto-spam.

    I already made this suggestion on the /r/blackladies thread, but it's not at all original. Most online sites prevent trolls by automatically sending any new account posts into the moderation queue. They get manually reviewed every few hours or so. Depending on how your first few posts go, you are either automatically approved or banned from posting. Reddit would need to add an additional feature to link voting to approved posters.

    [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, you're missing my point. "Tracking" issues would mean that reddit admins would be compelled to respond to each in one fashion or another even just by marking them. That's a lot of overhead and time spent on bullshit for a small team.

    As for those other sites: they are all fundamentally different from reddit in a lot of ways. I can spell out how for each, but honestly, they're all very poor examples.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oh god I cannot even imagine the chaos that would ensure if mods had access to IPs. Cats and dogs living together etc etc. I think the drawbacks waaaaaay outweigh the benefits.

      And "toxic" is extremely relative. Is MR toxic? AMR?

      [–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Also, they already IP ban when necessary, we call it chucking

      [–]Higev 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      "Le reddit admins literally shitlords for not doing what AMR demands!"

      [–]PrettyWithDreads 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This wasn't originally posted on AMR.

      [–]keytud -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Just slightly below "we're not SRS infested". Lol.

      [–]ReBurnInator -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Those tools already exist.

      [–]beIIe-and-sebastian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Dualpollux is the username formerly known as IdesOflight, also shadow banned for doxxing. They'll be easy to spot. Check all new remodded accounts across the fempire and blackladies.

      [–]OctavianRex -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      That's account number 3 or so?

      [–]Olbrecht -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      At least.

      There's probably a lot more alts we never knew were her too

      [–]Olbrecht -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Here's the admin response to her shadowban:

      https://i.imgur.com/SPTHJyY.png

      [–]He-manRightsMovement 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I feel like this needs more context. Also, are they basically admitting that they're banning this person for "reasons"? Seems like if the ban was for violating any actual/known rules that they would have said so there.

      [–]Olbrecht -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Pretty sure they are telling her to cut her bullshit because it's getting old.

      [–]ReBurnInator 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      http://i.imgur.com/rsyXlXO.png

      http://i.imgur.com/ggoeYDR.png

      http://i.imgur.com/BXCgTh8.jpeg

      [–][deleted] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Your first link accuses them of doxxing, your last link has the admin perplexed doxxing is even being mentioned. You're not making sense.

      [–]He-manRightsMovement -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Thanks for the context (I guess?) - Although I'm not really sure that there's a good explanation for the ban in there.

      [–]nocommentyet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      What does that mean?

      [–]Olbrecht -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It means they are sick and tired of her BS.

      Or to be more specific, they are sick and tired of her inciting drama by going into subs in which she's neither a member or regular contributor.