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Caliphate clash (i.imgur.com)

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[–]getlaidanddie -8 ポイント-7 ポイント  (22子コメント)

That wouldn't work out. To lead in science you would have to have smart people, and most of them would be too smart to be muslim. In sharia bright minds like Abdus Salam and Jim Al-Khalili would be killed because apostasy.

[–]bosskis 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ooh wow the same dude who made this shitty TIL. np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2f9k5a/til_there_were_more_female_nobel_laureates_than/

[–]dan_why -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That depends on the sect/community many Islamic countries in Asia are booming right now thanks to their acceptance of modern thinking and a willingness to rethink how they interpret the Quran.

[–]wromit 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

many Islamic countries in Asia are booming

I don't think we're talking about literal "booming".

[–]riyadhelalami -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Yes ofcourse and that is why we have had some of the greatest minds in history not long ago.

[–]rexical 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

like who?

[–]riyadhelalami 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Thousands of them, I will let you go deep in this wiki list, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_scientists.

[–]rexical 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

thanks for the list, but most are not that recent

[–]riyadhelalami -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I am not saying recent but we are now in the worst of our days. We are full of problems and the people are not following Islam.

But a few examples of the top of my mind is Zowail an Egyptian Nobel prize winner in chemistry, and you have the Iranian woman a few weeks ago winning the fields medal and she was the first woman to win the prize, but even if we have a few we are in the worst of our days, we aren't contributing anymore to the scientific revolution, and we are working on it.

[–]DrunkenBeard 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Both your examples have achieved everythìng in the USA. Ahmad Zowail had been a US citizen for 17 years when he got his Nobel Prize. Miryam Mirzakhani gor her PhD from Harvard and did her research in the US.

The reason I'm making is that you can't prove Islam had anything to do with it. These people might be apostates for all you know, it's dishonest to attribute the works of someone's mind to its religion, or even to suggest that it might have had any sort of influence.

[–]h4qq -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Both your examples have achieved everythìng in the USA.

We are talking about religion, not the location of where they were born or live.

These people might be apostates for all you know, it's dishonest to attribute the works of someone's mind to its religion, or even to suggest that it might have had any sort of influence.

What an odd comment, do some research and find out for yourself. From the Nobel Peace prize winner, I found this in his wiki:

In June 4, 2009 speech at Cairo University, US President Barack Obama announced a new Science Envoy program as part of a "new beginning between the United States and Muslims around the world." In January 2010, Ahmed Zewail, Elias Zerhouni, and Bruce Alberts became the first US science envoys to Islam, visiting Muslim-majority countries from North Africa to Southeast Asia.

I know many Muslim scientists, doctors, many friends of mine are pursuing PhDs, etc., and they are strong, practicing Muslims. I used to head the clinical research for a practicing Muslim hepatologist that is world renown in the advancement of HCV treatment.

This idiotic understanding that religion and science are opposite ends of the spectrum needs to stop, it just shows one's own ignorance. This isn't Christianity, it's Islam.

[–]DrunkenBeard 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This idiotic understanding that religion and science are opposite ends of the spectrum needs to stop, it just shows one's own ignorance. This isn't Christianity, it's Islam.

Nowhere did I talk about religion and science being opposites, I thought I even made my point very clear: Being Muslim and achieving in the scientific field are two uncorrelated propositions. You should be adressing people who think that Islam as a faith is implicitely beneficial to scientific progress.

I know many Muslim scientists, doctors, many friends of mine are pursuing PhDs, etc., and they are strong, practicing Muslims.

And I live in a Muslim country and know countless practicing Muslim scientists who I respect and admire. What's your point? Islam had nothing to do with their achievements, that's my point. Again, it doesn't mean that Islamic faith is opposite to science, it just doesn't have any noticeable impact.

Now I will finish by saying that although Islamic faith is neutral towards scientific achievements, Islam as a form of government is explicitely detrimental to scientific progress. Calm down, I see you ready to jump, I'm going to explain. It's very simple really, there are some scientific fields that any Muslim government will never fund (or just publish) because they go against the dogma. This isn't specific to Islam mind you, for example a society that has a strong capitalistic focus will tend to descriminate against scientific fields which don't result in some form of RoI, and that is also detrimental.

So to summarize, of course you can have great Muslim scientists, the same as you can have great Christian scientists and great Pastafari scientists. It is dishonest to say "Mashaallah! Another great Muslim scientist! We are the best! Islam and science are totally compatible" because :

  1. A scientist being Muslim doesn't mean much. There are also a lot of Muslim terrorists. Doesn't mean that Islamic faith implicitely favours being a terrorist.

  2. You are lumping Islam as a faith and Islam as a political system in the same basket. The former is neutral to science, the latter is detrimental to science when it conflicts with the dogma.

[–]rexical 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

not trying to dis you with my comments but i really hope to see this list keep growing with new entries. I criticize Muslims lots yet somehow i feel there are just so many Muslims that are kind and knowledgeable yet their voices continue to be lost to the actions of the loud brainless ones.

[–]getlaidanddie 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

>Avicenna

>Omar Khayyam

>Abdus Salam

>Maryam Mirzakhani

What a joke is that page. Wikipedia seems to know better about islam than Ghazzali who declared Avicenna kafir, and Pakistani ulema who say Abdus Salam is Qadiani. And Mirzakhani doesn't wear hijab and is married to a non-muslim.

[–]riyadhelalami -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will not argue anymore with a circle Jerk.

But a few comments I don't know who made alghazzaly God so he can judge if someone was kafir or not and my mom doesn't wear hijab but she prays and fasts and believes in allah does that make her kafir, I don't think so

[–]getlaidanddie 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Like who? Avicenna, who pretended to be a muslim? Al-Ma'arri, whose statue was vandalized because he was too smart for islam? If you bring some muslim men of science from older times, I can say that's because the state of science was poor back then. But nowadays a scientist can't agree with the Earth being created before the Sun, sky being seven hard domes, or humans not being evolved from simple organisms.

[–]autowikibot 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Al-Maʿarri:

Abul ʿAla Al-Maʿarri (Arabic أبو العلاء المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī, full name أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري Abū al-ʿAlāʾ Aḥmad ibn ʿAbd Allāh ibn Sulaimān al-Tanūẖī al-Maʿarrī; 973–1058) was a blind Arabian philosopher, poet, and writer.

He was a controversial rationalist of his time, attacking the dogmas of religion and rejecting the claim that Islam or any other religion possessed the truths they claimed and considered the speech of prophets as a lie (literally, "forgery") and "impossible" to be true. He was equally sarcastic towards the religions of Muslims, Jews, and Christians. He was also a vegan who argued for animal rights.

In 2013, almost a thousand years after his death, a Jihadist group beheaded the statue of Al Ma'arri during the conflict in Syria. Al Ma'arri remains widely cited among modern Arab atheists.

Interesting: Maarrat al-Nu'man | Atheism | List of deists | I'jaz

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[–]riyadhelalami -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Are you sure you are reading Islam, because I have learned all over school about Almeria, Ibn Alhaitham, Alkhawarezmi, and just a few weeks ago an Iranian woman who won the fields medal. Of course here I am only counting a few. In Islam statuses are Haram because we don't want them to be worshiped. That is why it was vandalized.

[–]getlaidanddie 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Almeria, Ibn Alhaitham, Alkhawarezmi

See what I wrote up there again.

>If you bring some muslim men of science from older times, I can say that's because the state of science was poor back then. But nowadays a scientist can't agree with the Earth being created before the Sun, sky being seven hard domes, or humans not being evolved from simple organisms.

That is why it was vandalized

Read up the link again. He was "rejecting the claim that Islam or any other religion possessed the truths they claimed and considered the speech of prophets as a lie".

[–]riyadhelalami -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

What you are saying that anything but modern scientists are not scents and are not brilliant minds.

[–]getlaidanddie 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What I'm saying is sharia is an outdated system. Thousand years ago it may worked, but today you can't have sharia with good science. The OP pic implies you can build sharia today which would lead in art and science.

[–]riyadhelalami -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes you can

[–]getlaidanddie 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sigh