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[–]BetaBlockDoc -13 ポイント-12 ポイント  (33子コメント)

[–]mjg59Social Justice Warrior 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (12子コメント)

:(

[–]johnny0055 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i've been reading your blog posts for years. keep up the good work!

[–]elad661 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You probably don't remember me (we met in GUADEC and talked for a while), but I must say this here in this specific context: you're awesome. Keep up the good work and ignore those lousy trolls.

And by "good work" I don't only mean code, I also mean your refusal to be silent about serious issues - it's extremely important. People like you make the GNOME, Fedora and Open Source / Free Software communities a good thing to be a part of.

[–]jamtall 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

There have been plenty of idiotic comments made in this thread, and "SJW" is far from the mark - but that doesn't mean what you said was justified, or that it's acceptable to make a joke out of it (which is what I assume your flair is about). You raged about someone you thought made light of rape, so is it not hypocritical to turn around and make light of your own "rape apologist" accusation?

I've watched most of the presentations you've done and they've been very entertaining (and the fruit fly jokes always make me smile), and you seem like an intelligent and valuable member of the community, but your "rape apologist" post was pure hysteria. I lost some respect for you after that, and frankly I've gained respect for Ts'o for not disowning his words, even in the face of the angry mob you whipped up.

[–]icourtneyloveu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It's not hysteria to call out someone who is telling people that they weren't raped, when they in fact were.

Here's what Ted himself had to say to Matthew:

And if 73% of the women who were classified as being raped in the Koss study, denied that they would themselves characterize it as rape, then maybe there is a certain lack of precision in how the term is defined, and this could lead to some extremely misleading uses of the term.

This leads me to believe that Ted maybe isn't the best person to be talking about rape, because victims frequently try to convince themselves that they weren't violated, as part of the coping process. What he said is quite literally rape apology, and I'm sceptical whether you have even given any thought to this.

[–]jamtall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

victims frequently try to convince themselves that they weren't violated, as part of the coping process.

Frequently? How frequently? How do you distinguish this effect from a false positive in the Koss classification? You cannot simply ignore the opinion of the victim, when that opinion can ultimately decide if the crime has taken place. This is exactly what Ts'o is talking about - a lack of precision that could lead to misleading uses of the term. You've also cherry-picked from one of many statements - the spirit of his argument is that rape is not one thing, not one nightmarish extreme. It is lack of consent, and that comes in many forms, most far more casual than people would suspect. If two drunken people have sex, they have raped each other because they both lack the capacity for consent. Should we think of this the same way as a violent rape at knifepoint? No, to do so is either absurd or insulting. Uncomfortable as it is to consider, rape happens in degrees. The law acknowledges this - "forcible" and "aggravated" rape definitions exist. His point is that people seem to gladly ignore them and consider all rape "equal". The blowback from his comments is evidence of this. Which I'll say, again, is incredibly insulting to victims.

I know that everyone has a fear that giving an inch means the misogynists and actual rape apologists will take a mile. That does not mean inflated statistics or inflated warnings are justified. Misrepresenting the issue actually helps these bastards because it means they can frame you as hysterical rather than rational.

Im sceptical whether you have even given any thought to this.

Just the kind of condescending nonsense that poisons rational discussion. Please try to avoid making this personal, rape is already a sensitive enough issue.

[–]icourtneyloveu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

when that opinion ultimately decides if the crime has taken place

How do you feel about statutory rape...?

[–]jamtall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I write 3 paragraphs and all you do is downvote my reply (yes, I know it was you, the downvote appeared when your comment was 1min~ old each time) and cherry-pick one poorly-worded line. I do hope /u/mjg59 sees my replies, and provides more thoughtful responses.

[–]icourtneyloveu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sorry, I tend to downvote people when they're advocating against statutory rape...

J/k, j/k. I actually downvoted you because your argument sucks.

You're acting as if I said "Ted Tso views rape by degrees, therefore he is wrong and a bad person." What I'm actually saying is "Ted Tso is clearly acting as if rape didn't occur just because traumatized people tried to pretend it doesn't happen, and that is fucked up." You then went and mentally added "therefore all drunk sex is rape and I want to castrate all men everywhere."

Is it fucked up that Ted Tso is making statements about rape despite seeming to not have much experience with it? Yes; Does that mean that he's an evil person and worthy of a shunning unto death? No. Good people can have dumb opinions, because the world is a complicated place. What that also means is that Matthew was right to call him out on a shitty opinion, because if no one calls you out when you're dumb, you never improve as a person.

But really, in light of your statement "that opinion ultimately decides if the crime has taken place", how does your philosophical framework deal with statutory rape laws? Are they illegitimate?

[–]jamtall 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ted Tso is clearly acting as if rape didn't occur just because traumatized people tried to pretend it doesn't happen

I'll repeat what I said - to take this approach means you ignore the false-positive problem. Koss cannot be infallible, and just because traumatized people can be in denial does not mean all are in denial. His point is proven - you are trying to inflate the statistics. I worry that you know that, but think that is "doing the right thing".

You then went and mentally added "therefore all drunk sex is rape and I want to castrate all men everywhere."

I then addressed the greater context of the argument, to better explain his position, and your reply seems to be a crude caricature rather than a constructive response.

As much as I hate the phrase, I should probably stop "feeding the troll".

[–]icourtneyloveu 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

just because traumatized people can be in denial does not mean all are in denial

Tell me where I said that every person who says sex was consentual is lying.

[–]muungwana -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What he said is quite literally rape apology, and I'm sceptical whether you have even given any thought to this.

person A: over 110% of women are rape victims,something needs to be done about this.

person B: how did you come up with the 110% statistic?

icourtneyloveu: person B is a rape apologist.

That is how the discussions take place with SJW. Critiquing any aspects of what they say and you are automatically a rape apologist misogynistic pig who hate on women.

With the 73% statistic,without questioning how it came to be,any person who suggests the number is inaccurate and higher than it should be is automatically a rape apologist.How about those who think the number is inaccurate as it is lower that it should be and it should be raised? what do you think of these people?

Do you think its possible for somebody to criticize the mythology that rose that number or the interpretation of the number without being a rape apologist? or do you think anything should go unchallenged if the ultimate goal is to reduce/remove sexism,misogyny and rape culture from the community?

[–]icourtneyloveu 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Believe it or not, I don't give a fuck about the statistics. To quote Mark Twain: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

What I do care about is Tso saying "well the people said that it wasn't rape", because it ignores that people misreport shit all the time. I mean, the first fucking stage of grief is denial. So again, I am not concerned with whether that statistic is correct, but I am concerned with someone saying "well obviously it's wrong because no one ever says something that prima facie means one thing but on further examination means another, especiallly when dealing with a traumatic experience." That statistic could be higher or lower and it wouldn't change the fact that Tso was using a fallacious argument.

[–]milesrout 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry, but what? How the fuck is questioning dubious statistics 'effectively [calling] rape victims liars'?

He never said "rape victims are liars", he just questioned whether it is actually productive to say "1/4 of women have been raped" when what 'raped' means to the person collecting those statistics is very different to what 'raped' means to the average person reading those statistics.

[–]strange_kitteh 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (16子コメント)

I think the pathetic circle jerk you're looking for is over at /r/theredpill that a way -->

[–]sstewartgallus -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Please express coherent arguments and not name calling.

I really would love to hear why you feel so passionately disgusted by /u/BetaBlockDoc's assertion but without arguments I am forced to conclude that you only have some bias or agenda.

[–]icourtneyloveu 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why is is that you've only asked /u/strange_kitteh to express a coherent argument, but not /u/BetaBlockDoc, who started this thread with not only name calling, but also obscenity?

[–]strange_kitteh 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

name calling.

Where? I didn't address the author as subject.

Speaking of which

I really would love to hear why you feel so passionately disgusted by /u/BetaBlockDoc's assertion but without arguments I am forced to conclude that you only have some bias or agenda.

Of course I have and agenda and that agenda is, if you would kindly read the sidebar, that /r/linux is for GNU Linux and related content exclusively and should not be hijacked. Of course I hold bias against the views of rape applogists as I am not one but that is not a discussion for a thread about an AMA announcement. Which is why I brought that to his/her attention and why I will not be baited into further commentary on the matter simply for your gratification in /r/linux (it's unfair to readers who came to read about GNU/Linux and related content).

[–]sstewartgallus -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Where? I didn't address the author as subject.

See,

pathetic circle jerk

I want you to apologize to /u/BetaBlockDoc or justify your position.

Of course I have and agenda and that agenda is, if you would kindly read the sidebar, that /r/linux is for GNU Linux and related content exclusively and should not be hijacked.

Look, I think the concern that "a hostile attitude that labels a well meaning person as a rape apologist for no good reason should not be welcomed into the GNU and Linux community" is a very valid concern.

Of course I hold bias against the views of rape applogists as I am not one but that is not a discussion for a thread about an AMA announcement.

This implies Ted Ts'o is in fact a rape apologist which in fact he is not. You should apologize for that accusation as Ted Ts'o simply questions a large amount of the hysteria involved with the issue.

Which is why I brought that to his/her attention and why I will not be baited into further commentary on the matter simply for your gratification in /r/linux (it's unfair to readers who came to read about GNU/Linux and related content).

I think /u/BetaBlockDoc is simply angry about a serious issue.

[–]strange_kitteh 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

why I will not be baited

[–]icourtneyloveu 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why aren't you asking /u/BetaBlockDock to apologize for calling /u/mjg59 a SJW, which is in this context clearly a pejorative? Especially in the context of:

Look, I think the concern that "a hostile attitude [...] for no good reason should not be welcomed into the GNU and Linux community" is a very valid concern.

You pretty obviously have your own agenda here. Maybe look at removing that plank from your own eye.

[–]jamtall -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Of course I hold bias against the views of rape applogists as I am not one but that is not a discussion for a thread about an AMA announcement.

The "rape apologist" comment was an accusation, not a conviction. Ts'o said the right thing, but at the wrong time and in the wrong place.

(it's unfair to readers who came to read about GNU/Linux and related content).

It's a community issue. It's a "Linux Culture" issue. I don't think people on either side of the argument agree with you on this point.

[–]strange_kitteh 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

why I will not be baited

[–]sstewartgallus -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This would be a good question for the AMA.