111
112

Johns Hopkins Psychiatrist: Transgender is ‘Mental Disorder;' Sex Change ‘Biologically Impossible’ (cnsnews.com)

wiseprogressivethink が 投稿

全ての 59 コメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
ベスト
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順

[–]jakenichols2 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (39子コメント)

Wow, this guy sums up everything I have ever said about transgender people. Its a delusion that is being forced upon everyone else. Forcing someone to call you "she" when its obvious you're a "he" is like forced participation of a delusion. A healthy society would not encourage this type of thing to propagate.

People defend this by pulling out the old argument that "gender is a social construct", well if that is so, then why are you going from one social construct to the other? What difference is it going to make, if they're both just "made up" "constructs" why are you choosing to be either?

[–]VulamondReagan Conservative 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, this has always been my argument as well.

But even with a psychiatrist from a top university saying the same thing, we're still going to be called bigots for knowing that you can't change your biological sex and that transgenders have a few mental screws loose.

[–]liatris 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (16子コメント)

It's social gaslighting.

[–]jakenichols2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (15子コメント)

That is exactly what it is.

[–]liatris 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (14子コメント)

You should check out /r/GenderCritical and /r/Gender_Critical. I don't agree with those radical feminist on everything but they have it nailed down on transgenderism. I think they are hated more by the trans community than even /r/Conservative

[–]jakenichols2 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

They don't want men grabbing their "rights" by dressing up like and calling themselves women.

[–]liatris 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think they're right to be concerned. For example I think female prisoners have a right not to be locked up with a man, with male genitalia, who grabs their breasts, leers at them in the stall-less bathrooms why they use it and in general sexually harass them. The policy of locking a heterosexual transgendered person in a room full of women to protect him from other men at the expense of the safety of the women is a valid concern.

http://genderidentitywatch.com/2014/08/23/barnett-v-city-and-county-of-philadelphia-usa/

[–]jakenichols2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's a whole can of worms that will be an issue to deal with. I think they should just deal with a trans as someone who is gay and send them to their respective biological sex's prison. They don't send gays to gay jail, they put them in with everyone else.

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree.

[–]Virgadays 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The issue with those subreddits is that the people there share the wildest assumptions about transgender people without even talking to them or allowing feedback. They are echochambers, nothing more.

[–]liatris 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think that's a false assumption. They are left leaning people involved in politics and activism, that alone tells me they have plenty of opportunities for encounters with transgendered people. As for allowing feedback I think that can be problematic because trans people tend to drown out all opposition on this site. They have several brigading sub-reddits devoted to the purpose.

Look through my comment history at the run in's I've had. They downvote everyone who disagrees with them. I am sensitive to the desire to have a place to discuss unpopular opinions without being drowned out by your political opposition. That's why we moderate this sub so much. It's very easy for this sub to turn into another abusive, liberal circlejerk if we don't.

[–]Virgadays 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think that's a false assumption.

It really isn't. If they would take the effort to actually talk to transgender people instead building their opinions on what is written in diverse media articles or incidental run-ins with transgender people, they would get an entirely different picture. And when you try to reason with them you simply get banned.

I myself for example got banned shining some light on the assumption that transgender people transition to switch gender roles. I have seen other people recieve a ban for correcting them on the procedures of adolescent transition, for posting several publications that conclude the idea of autogynephilia is false. This is not a supporting a critical discussion, this is forcefully silencing all opposing views.

Look through my comment history at the run in's I've had. They downvote everyone who disagrees with them

To be frank, you post a lot of terribly denigrating assumptions about transgender people. For example that they transition to fulfill a sexual fetish, that they love powerplay over women. That is not simple disagreement: that is awfully insulting.

[–]liatris -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

There is this assumption I see on the left mostly that any disagreement can be remedied by understanding and education. It's absurd imo. Understanding tends to breed resentment more than anything.

I ban people all of the time from this subreddit. It's not because I don't like opposition, it's generally due with the way people choose to express that opposition. You say you "corrected them" why not simply say you gave your perspective on the issue? Saying you corrected them implies your view of reality is some how more clear/real/true etc. Were you on their sub to learn more about why they believe what they do or were you on the sub to push your agenda on them? To me it sounds like the latter. A perfectly reasonable reason for banning you imo. If someone came here and made a bunch of posts where he sets out to correct conservatives about their beliefs using an attitude of "teacher or professor" I would ban him too. We already understand why liberals believe what they do, we're not interested in being re-educated by some random person with a chimp on their shoulder.

To be frank, you post a lot of terribly denigrating assumptions about transgender people. For example that they transition to fulfill a sexual fetish, that they love powerplay over women. That is not simple disagreement: that is awfully insulting

The truth is often insulting. What is your opinion of this guy....? I've met several male transgendered and this guy is basically the stereotype of the ones I've had the unpleasant encounter of meeting.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/2eeza3/johns_hopkins_psychiatrist_transgender_is_mental/cjyzpu1

[–]Virgadays 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You say you "corrected them" why not simply say you gave your perspective on the issue?

That wasn't me, that was another person. I use the word corrected because they stated factually incorrect information on the procedures of adolescent transition. This makes it not a matter of perspective or opinion but a matter of facts.

Were you on their sub to learn more about why they believe what they do or were you on the sub to push your agenda on them?

First I came there to learn and understand. I was curious on what their ideas are and how they arrived at them. Then I saw that a lot of their views regarding transsexuality are based on factually incorrect information and baseless assumptions so I tried to engage in an discussion. Finally I realized that these people cannot be reasoned with: they have a firm believe they are right no matter what other people say and no matter what information they provide. They go out of their way to silence every opinion and piece of information that opposes their view and they publicly shame transgender people. This made me conclude that they were not worth the effort so I moved on.

The truth is often insulting.

The fact that you believe this is the truth doesnt make it so, especially when you don't have the data to back it up. By far most transpeople I know in person (>200) don't match that description, which should be an indication on how correct that belief of yours is.

On my part I could assume that you have a bias against transsexual people and therefore are inclined to more readily believe negative statements on them than positive statements.

What is your opinion of this guy....?

I am puzzled if this is a troll or not. Luckaly I don't have anyone like that in my social circles.

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I use the word corrected because they stated factually incorrect information on the procedures of adolescent transition.

To me the issue of why people transition is a subjective statement of opinion...."I myself for example got banned shining some light on the assumption that transgender people transition to switch gender roles."

Finally I realized that these people cannot be reasoned with: they have a firm believe they are right no matter what other people say and no matter what information they provide.

To me what you're saying is that they can't be swayed in their opinion. That doesn't imply they are incapable of reason, simply that they don't accept your reasoning. This is another thing I've noticed the left does, if someone is unwilling to accept your philosophy it doesn't mean they are irrational or stupid, simply that your arguement and information is unconvincing to them.

They go out of their way to silence every opinion and piece of information that opposes their view and they publicly shame transgender people. This made me conclude that they were not worth the effort so I moved on.

Because it's their subreddit for discussing their opinions. There are plenty of other subreddits for these discussion to play out. If someone came to this subreddit and started behaving in the way they do on /r/politics for example - anti-conservative circlejerk confrontation behavior - you better believe I would ban them. Not because I hate other opinions but because this is not the appropriate place for those opinions, it's a place for conservatives to discuss things. Both /r/PoliticalDiscussion and /r/askaconservative are available for liberals to confront conservatives.

The fact that you believe this is the truth doesnt make it so, especially when you don't have the data to back it up.

I am not running a science experiment, I am explaining my personal opinion and gave an illustration of what I meant. If you found it insulting, I apologize but I find it insulting for some strange man to passively force me to look at his dick while I'm changing at the gym.

By far most transpeople I know in person (>200) don't match that description, which should be an indication on how correct that belief of yours is.

You think >200 is a representative sample? I'm just curious, what is your biological sex?

On my part I could assume that you have a bias against transsexual people and therefore are inclined to more readily believe negative statements on them than positive statements.

My bias is based on the activist who want to subvert my right to have and enjoy women only spaces in public. It's the same bias many men felt when feminist were trying to force them to close down men-only clubs. It's a bias based on reaction to force.

If you are not trying to force me to call you the opposite gender, not trying to force me to have men in public locker rooms, not trying to take scholarships designed for women, not trying to have biological men housed in female prisons, not trying to compete in sports as women when you have a penis then we wouldn't have a problem.

[–]liatris -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he is a troll he is a really dedicated troll. Here he is on Youtube demonstrating his "female" voice....Just imagine a white woman giving an instructional video on how to mimic a black male voice and using every stereotype of ebonics they can think of. This kind of caricature is equally insulting to me as a woman....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5AVk1yYhlcw&feature=youtu.be&t=3m4s

[–]ReinaSophia 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I agree. I think life is way too short to not live how you want, try different things, whatever but the fact of the matter is no one has to agree with what you do.

I was waitressing at a restaurant a few years ago and I had a couple come on. The man was a man and the woman was clearly a man. But the boyfriend kept referring to him as a her and she. The vibe I got was that he wanted to confirm that I thought or was at least willing to go along with the idea of his boyfriend being a woman. I just smiled and pushed past it.

If I'm not your friend or family I have to obligation to go along with wrong pronouns. And even if I were that's still up to me. I have my own mind and my own beliefs about it and to try and force someone to back down from theirs to support your own is selfish.

I'm basically saying live and let live. Even the Bible says this.

And honestly it seems like they aren't practicing this. The Piers Morgan debacle where he dared to ask a transgender about transitioning, these comments I see about how previous sex doesn't matter and doesn't have to be disclosed to potential PARTNERS, and that website that got in trouble for referring to someone's previous sex suggest they want everyone to full commit...or else.

[–]milesmilesmiles 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Because our interaction with other individuals and society is oftentimes dictated or influenced by the gender with which we identify. Moreover, the "made up construct" of gender isn't going away any time soon, so to identify as neither would be impractical.

[–]jakenichols2 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But, someone who is transgender feels like the other gender, which somehow is a "social construct" aka not real. So... how is that not a delusion by their own definition?

[–]sampson158 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But, someone who is Schizophrenic feels like the other reality (is real), which is somehow a "delusion" aka not real. So... how is tehir delusion not a reality by their own definition.

To put it in this perspective may help. Realizing that "Transgender" individuals suffer from an Identity Disorder, which is by definition a mental health issue, puts into perspective the issue that they need treatment.

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

If gender is a social construct then feelings of being the opposite gender is product of a social construct by definition.

[–]milesmilesmiles 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I agree. So if both are feelings created by social constructs, as you claim by definition, why would one be considered normal and the other a "delusion," as /u/jakenichols2 opines in his above post?

[–]jakenichols2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The only people saying that gender is a social construct are people who refuse to accept their own. I don't think gender is a delusion.

[–]milesmilesmiles -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The only people saying that gender is a social construct are people who refuse to accept their own.

That seems like a closed minded view. I accept (and love) being male on all accounts (sex, gender, what have you), but I don't deny that many of the ways in which I behave and the social functions I follow have been shaped by the society I live in.

[–]jakenichols2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You have biological traits that are part of your maleness, testosterone, hormones, etc all dictate your gender as well as social norms(like clothing and interests), but by saying I AM A WOMAN, and attempting to change your physical appearance is a rejection of biological aspects of gender as well as the social aspects. I am a male and I dislike sports, I think they are the opiate of the masses and keep men docile, so I refuse to participate in being a spectator of that traditionally male social function. That doesn't make me transgender, it makes me someone who doesn't accept social norms as their own.

[–]liatris 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wish I could give you two upvotes, someone seems to be downvoting you.

[–]jakenichols2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Eh, I'm used to it, popular opinion was never one of my strong points.

[–]liatris -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I edited my other post, tell me this isn't an example of a person with a sexual fetish....

http://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/2eeza3/johns_hopkins_psychiatrist_transgender_is_mental/cjyzpu1

[–]liatris 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If you think gender is completely socially constructed (not saying I do) then basing your gender on an internal feeling would obviously be a delusion since it doesn't come from the social environment you find yourself in. If gender is a social construction then it's socially defined, not personally defined.

[–]milesmilesmiles -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If gender is indeed entirely a social construct, then how could one base their gender on an "internal feeling?" Adhering to the definition that gender is entirely a social construct, if an "internal feeling" pertained to gender, wouldn't it also be by definition be socially constructed? If this were so (which it seems to be based on the definitions you lay out), there doesn't seem to be a substantive difference between identifying one's gender as male or female.

[–]liatris 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Personally I think there is a segment of the population, males mostly, who get sexually excited by the idea of having their own breasts and female genitals. They are also excited about the idea of forcing women to accept them as a woman. It's a control thing. I see transgenderism as more of a sexual fetish. Keep in mind men make up the majority of people who identify as transgender and men tend towards fetishism more than women.

EDITED to add an example of what I mean by it being a fetish....

Take this creepy guy for example. He enjoys the shock value of walking around a woman's locker room showing off what he has described previously as his "massive cock." His cock is there to educate women.

http://i.imgur.com/4wi53GF.png

http://i.imgur.com/SLlzVMt.png

http://i.imgur.com/uUPJpxd.png

http://i.imgur.com/ZOUQiAm.png

http://i.imgur.com/ys6O6si.png

http://i.imgur.com/Bw5hG1G.png

http://i.imgur.com/01YMx5F.png

http://i.imgur.com/WKNsyXJ.png

http://i.imgur.com/D6NqByA.png

http://i.imgur.com/XiejEE6.png

http://i.imgur.com/s8i34tV.png

[–]Virgadays 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You should understand that provinding 1 example does not prove a statement. If you really wish to prove that transgender people have a fetish for 'being the other sex' and that they are in it for powerplay, you need to start a study of at least n=100 randomly selected individuals.

[–]liatris -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand that perfectly, I'm not conducting a scientific survey. I am giving an example of what I mean by a man who gets off on a fetish of dominating women by forcing himself into their safe spaces and exposing himself to them.

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, how? Yet that is the logic used by transgendered people, that they feel like the opposite gender. If they do have an internal feeling that conflicts with the social construction then that would be a delusion.

We have a social construction of what the color red means. If you feel that red is actually blue that means you are having a delusion or you are sick in some way. It doesn't mean that red is actually blue, just that something is off about your perceptions. For me it's similar to someone with anorexia, they have a skewed view of themselves as fat even when they are bone thin.

[–]CyberVictimizer 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In my mind, these people are no different than Otherkin in their self-delusion. "But I feel like a woman!" That's really insulting. I am a for-real woman, how dare you presume to know how I feel inside? I doubt they'd be terribly interested in a complete transition if it meant they had to experience the same monthly crap I go through. They're shooting off at the mouth about things they know nothing about. What they ought to say instead is, "I want to look like a woman." And not just any woman. They want to exaggerate our features to clownish proportions when not all of us look like that. I rarely wear makeup or skirts, does that make me any less female?

But in the end, I don't really care. They can believe they're woman or otters or shovels and it won't change my life one iota. I'll just smile and placate them like I would any other non-violent crazy person.

[–]jeffklolConservative 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I've been saying for years. They're so self centered that they think their opinion of what it's like to be a woman is more "right" than what actual women are like.

[–]Tinman556 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, this doctor dared to present facts, he better be prepared for the shit-storm that will follow from the lgbqtrsw community whose real agenda is swelling their own ranks through victimization.

[–]YamiHarrison 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Someones about to get audited

[–]legalizehazing 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Totally agree with this guy... But there are cases with developemental issues where individuals with male dna don't form a penis and they have vaginas. I think the technical name is blue dog democrat

[–]adlpSHITLORD 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

transgenders seem to have the biggest case of "the grass is greener" ever.

[–]GeminiVI 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

What's the conservative position on transgenders?

[–]YamiHarrison 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

People can dress up and call themselves whatever they want, but not infringe that upon others.

[–]BagOnutsFairTax Advocate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. It's almost like conservatives don't give a shit what you do with your personal life until it starts effecting the lives of others! How bigoted! /s

[–]life_vest 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have the right to do as they want as long as I am not being infringed on but I have the right to think it's fucking disgusting.

That's the beauty of this country.

[–]UnoriginalMike 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm curious as well.

I think this would be a better topic for /r/science or /r/psychology.

[–]VulamondReagan Conservative 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Try posting this in /r/science. It'll be shot down pretty quickly.

[–]GeminiVI -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know Iran is fully supportive of transgender people, while I believe homosexuality is still punishable by death. I believe they go as far as actually having government programs help support their transition and surgery from male to female or female to male. On the other hand I don't believe the Christian Right is in any way accepting or tolerant of these people. They're still, from my understanding, proponents of the idea that sexual impulse is malliable to the human well. This is not a logical jump but a intuitive one that they wouldn't be accepting of transgendered people.

[–]ukrainianbeatlemania 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You deal with the cards you're dealt

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

skepticism

[–]legalizehazing 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think there is one.. A lot of people probably sympathize with these arguments

[–]-Slutlord-Fascist- -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

conservative position

Mentally and socially disordered. Often embrace extreme leftism. Avoid allowing them into proximity with your children.

[–]jeffklolConservative -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no such thing. There is, however, mental illness that causes people to believe certain things. Sometimes these mentally ill people will use self mutilation or "surgery" to get others to play along with their delusions.

[–]liatris 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You should crosspost this to /r/GenderCritical and /r/Gender_Critical their subscribers have been saying this for years and coming under lot of heat from the trans community on Reddit.

edit: NM, it's already posted there.

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/283108/those_nasty_terfs_at_the_wall_street_journal_are/

[–]yep45Constitutionalist 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said.

This is equal parts ridiculous, frustrating, and frightening. This is what happens when a political agenda is valued higher than scientific or medical truth. The fact that people would actually encourage kids to reinforce their own confusion about their identity is quite sickening.