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I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me. (washingtonpost.com)

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[–]VirenexPolice Officer -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I believe you are mistaking a sexual assault to mean the same thing as a search. Please stop acting like you are being raped and try to have a real discussion.

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Sorry, but what state/municipality do you serve in which allows officers to conduct full-body searches against persons of the opposite gender? There's a very specific reason policies exist prohibiting officers from conducting full-body searches against persons of the opposite gender.

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

You talking full-body search as in the entire body is patted down or something along the lines of a strip search?

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm talking anything beyond the minimal pat-down permitted to police officers who feel that you might have a concealed weapon with which you might threaten their safety. ie, an illegal search.

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

That didn't quite answer my question, but I'll try to get at what I was going to reply.

I (a male) can touch the entire body of either sex whether doing an Terry Pat or Search Incident to Arrest. That includes "sensitive areas" and I'm not required to wait for a female to show up to search a female.

Strip searches are different though.

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm a little bit confused as to how I didn't answer your question. A Terry Pat is, by definition, a "minimal pat-down permitted to police officers who feel that you might have a concealed weapon with which you might threaten their safety". The pat-down has to be limited to the outer surfaces of clothing, for the purposes of officer/public safety, etc... and most importantly, is not an illegal search so long as those criteria are met.

However, anything not explicitly permitted in a Terry Pat is an illegal search, and my argument is simply that anyone being subjected to an officer placing hands in their pockets or beneath their outermost garments should be permitted to resist such an illegal search. In reality, of course, any such resistance would likely result in serious injury or death for the one daring to assert their constitutional rights, but that's an entirely separate issue.

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

There are a number of exceptions when someone can be searched without a warrant other than a Terry Pat. Border crossings, Exigent circumstances, Administrative, Consent, Hot pursuit, Probable cause, Plain view, Inventory, Stop and frisk, and Search incident to arrest.

Though I originally replied to your post about searching people of the opposite gender, not about Terry Pats.

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Every single exception you listed derives from probable cause... and not a single one applies to the search of a person unless:

A. The officer is arresting you.

B. You're not cooperating with officers and/or attempting to flee.

C. You're in a location which has a specific requirement for conducting searches, such as a border crossing, courthouse entrance, etc. (ie, not just walking along the street)

D. It fulfills all of the requirements of a Terry Pat.

So... unless I'm being arrested, which is easy to find out, "Am I being arrested?" I have to be in a well-defined specific location or not otherwise cooperating with the legal directives of an officer for any search not permitted by a Terry Pat to be legal.

Exigent circumstances are not something I can actually create a logical scenario for applying to a person who is otherwise cooperating with the legal orders of an officer, but I would be very interested in hearing how they could apply from an actual officer. (Seriously, if there actually is a circumstance wherein an officer could claim exigent circumstances to carry out a search against a compliant person, I would like to know.)

[–]mmm_pbj_sammichPolice Officer 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You said "anything not explicitly permitted in a Terry Pat is an illegal search" without explaining you only meant search of a person not under arrest.

Anyway, I didn't respond to your post to talk about the legality of Terry Pats, only to say that it is perfectly legal to search opposite sexes.

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Regarding opposite sex Terry Pats, I think I figured out the cause of my confusion. Local (where I live) police department official policy (in their manual) requires them to either summon an officer the same sex as the person in question or have another officer or supervisor present, except in exigent circumstances. So, apparently they would only be violating department policy in such a case, and I cannot actually expect such courtesy when traveling elsewhere in the country.

Regardless, you've been very polite, so have some upvotes for engaging with me. Thank you.

[–]VirenexPolice Officer -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

However you would not be asserting your constitutional rights. You would be assaulting a police officer for you very misguided attempts at asserting your very misguided rights. Best bet for you would be to talk, and then fight it in court. The street isn't the place for you to go hands on.

[–]VirenexPolice Officer -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Somehow you derailed the train I was riding and put it on your own tracks. I wasn't talking about full body search and neither was the person above me. FYI those are done in jails by corrections officers. Also stop trying to sensationalize everything.

[–]TeialielNot a LEO 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anything beyond a simple pat-down, which I am fully aware is permitted even in absence of probable cause or a warrant, invites the possibility of unwanted sexual contact. Submitting to an unlawful search therefore includes the possibility of being subjected to unwanted sexual contact, unless the search in question is of one's home or vehicle. And believe me, you will never be given the opportunity to unlawfully search my home or vehicle without committing property damage that will allow me to take you to court, so the only type of unlawful search I have to fear is of my person.