(cache) ChuckSawceがMobile games be likeについて記入したコメント

Okay, except that in certain dialects of the English language, these are sentences. The first means "John is working" as you would typically understand it, and the second means "John works often" or "John is always working" where the be specifically has a durative or habitual aspect. This is important to note because most other dialects of English, yours included, do not encode that distinction in a manner that we term morphologically. We have to use words like "often" or some other kind of construction.

This to say, neither is better or worse than another. The point is, you cannot judge other dialects based on grammaticality judgments of your own dialect because there are dialects where people say these things, they are meaningful, systematic, and they have positive grammaticality judgments of them. To say it's wrong because it's wrong in your dialect is not sensible. You might as well say that German grammar is wrong because it's not English grammar; they're different grammars.

Most importantly, you're making these judgments based on your own biases and unscientifically. It is established fact that those are valid sentences in certain dialects, and that dialects can vary substantially from place to place. There is no such thing as a single, static English language.

[–]beaverburgular -4 ポイント-3 ポイント-2 ポイント 54 分前

No. English is one language. Certainly, there are different dialects, and some people speak and understand this dialect, but that doesn't make them grammatically correct. Saying "be like" is the same as spelling the word "you" as "u". We may understand it, but it's existence and the fact that we can understand what it means doesn't make it "text messager's dialect" or anything, or even make it an acceptable abbreviation. It is laziness. "Be like" is just laziness. Just because we can guess at what they are trying to say doesn't make it some special variation of the language. No, this is incorrect. It is either lazy or uneducated. And don't give me the "they don't have the resources to learn yours so they made their own language" bullshit. If people are posting online, they have the resources to learn the language that they are speaking. Even if they lived in 1700's Trinidad and didn't have the proper resources to learn, they wouldn't be speaking in their own "dialect" of English. They are communicating, and failing to speak the English language. It's a crude form of communication, and it completely different from speaking the actual language in the dictionary.

The particular phrase "be like" has become a piece of pop culture. There has been born a meme of sorts with this phrase (likely with an origin in sarcasm). Saying mobile games "be like" dumb is a lazy way of saying "mobile games sometimes post fake screenshots or cover art to make themselves look more appealing.

[–]grammatiker 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 45 分前

English is one language.

English is a collection of dialects that have roughly similar properties.

some people speak and understand this dialect, but that doesn't make them grammatically correct.

Actually, yes it does. Grammaticality is something that comes from having acquired some spoken form of a language. People who speak dialect A have intuitions about what is grammatical for A, and people who speak dialect B have intuitions about B. Grammar is an internal, mental concept, not something that exists external to people, despite common understanding. Thus, a speaker of dialect A cannot judge dialect B because their mental grammar is for A, not for B.

"be like" is the same as spelling the word "you" as "u".

Spelling is not the same as grammar, so that's an irrelevant comparison.

"Be like" is just laziness.

Sorry, how is the durative/habitual usage of be lazy? It's a consistent, systematic usage of a very specific aspectual distinction.

Just because we can guess at what they are trying to say doesn't make it some special variation of the language.

You "guess at" what they're saying for multiple reasons, primarily being that you have had exposure to its usage and it's similar enough to your native dialect to get a good sense of what it means. However, as I have quite thoroughly demonstrated, fine gradations in meaning (e.g. John working vs John be working) are clearly not intuitive to you.

It is either lazy or uneducated.

It's not the prestige dialect but that doesn't mean it's lazy or wrong. You learn the prestige dialect in school, but that doesn't mean that the prestige dialect is inherently better. Notice that people who grow up acquiring a dialect that is more similar to the prestige dialect suffer no similar prejudices against their speech. There are sociological reasons for that, none of which having anything to do with grammar itself.

They are communicating, and failing to speak the English language. It's a crude form of communication, and it completely different from speaking the actual language in the dictionary.

Wow, I don't even know where to begin with this. It's not crude at all; it's actually just as complex as your own dialect, which, again, I have thoroughly shown to be the case by demonstrating that there are forms of the language where you have no correct grammaticality judgments. Talk about serious linguistic elitism. Are you going to tell me next that black people's cranial capacities are smaller, or that they're genetically incapable of thinking about certain things? Dictionaries report usage; they do not dictate it. Just because one dialect is codified as being a standardized dialect (again, for sociological reasons, not for linguistic ones) doesn't invalidate all other dialects.

So yeah, go read up on basic linguistics and our modern scientific understanding of language. You are so far off the mark it's not even measurable. Seriously, you're not even arguing here. This is exactly equivalent to saying "well I can see the sun move around the Earth and not the Earth move around the sun, duh! You'd be stupid the think the Earth orbits the sun!"

[+]RealJackAnchor スコアが基準値未満のコメント (18子コメント)

[–]grammatiker 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 時間前

Yeah, they don't count, if you're racist and don't understand how dialects work. I literally just proved with a simple test that people's notions of what is correct are wrong, yet you argue that it's not a dialect because black people speak it. That's aggressively ignorant.

Just so you know, the dialect is formally known as African American Vernacular English and it's well-known as being a dialect of English. The idea that it's broken or bad English is completely false, and anyone who has even a basic understanding of the science of language can tell you that that is the case.

Before making yourself out to be an even bigger ignorant ass, I suggest you do some basic reading on the topic. Here are a couple papers to get you started. I don't expect you'll actually read them, since they'll challenge your prejudiced notions, but here's hoping:

In short, go fuck yourself and your racist attitudes.

[–]RealJackAnchor -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 1 時間前

This is the exact same bullshit as "fat acceptance" on tumblr. Just because something is wrong, doesn't mean it can be made right just by saying so. English is English. Trying to say that people from urban areas misusing the language is a "dialect" is laughable and insults actual higher learning.

And for your information, I'm Puerto Rican from Jersey City, New Jersey. I'm from "the streets". So fuck you for even suggesting that I'm racist, you fuck.

I saw bullshit all the time every day. The best thing I ever did was leave that place. It isn't racist to find everything about street life distasteful. It isn't racist to be sickened when people willingly choose to drop out of school and be worthless street urchins. A lot of people in urban areas don't even bother trying. This isn't race. This is economic poverty. White, black, Hispanic, people in urban areas just do not have the drive. Simple as that.

But making up some shit about english being used improperly as being a 'dialect'? That's fucking idiotic. As someone who stayed in high school and finished and has been going to college off and on for 6 years, as someone who actually is making an effort to better their own life, fuck you. Fuck you twice even. Piece of shit.

[–]grammatiker 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間前*

This isn't even closely resembling "fat acceptance"—this is a scientific point of view, based on modern understanding of language and how it works. The idea that there is a single, correct, static form of language is thoroughly false, in all cases, everywhere. "English is English" except for, y'know, the hundreds of recorded dialects of English, each with varying phonology, syntax, and vocabulary, all of which are systematic and used by different cultures and speech communities.

This topic is apparently close to you, seeing as you're incapable of even considering it rationally and without acting like you're being attacked. So you went to school and learned prestige English. Great for you. That doesn't mean that other dialects are wrong.

Oh, and AAVE is more than "street language" or "street life." It's a dialect spoken by black communities of varying sociological situations. It's definitely not endemic to just street life. It intersects a lot of different economic and social levels, but that's beside the point.

Everything else you've said about people dropping out of school, etc. is irrelevant to the point that the dialect itself is objectively well-formed and is not bad English. It's judged as bad by people who either speak a prestigious dialect of English or don't know better and assume that prestige English is superior based on racial prejudices. Even if you are not racist, the idea that AAVE is inferior is rooted in racism. So no, I don't care if you're Puerto Rican from the streets of Jersey. You may not be racist, but you're succumbing to and reflecting racist attitudes by propagating this bullshit idea that there is one correct way to speak and all others are broken, whether you mean to or not.

So no, not fuck me. If you want to call yourself educated, act like it. Go read those papers, learn how dialects work. This isn't a matter of political correctness—it's a conclusion based on actual evidence.

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