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Defaulting on my Student Debt (imgur.com)

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[–]Axana 35 ポイント36 ポイント

A family member of mine intentionally defaulted on his student loan ten years ago as an act of protest. The only action the debt collectors have taken against him since then is sending the occasional threatening letter. Since he refuses to work a "traditional" job (or at least anything involving a W-2 form), has no bank account, and lives outside the economic system, they haven't been able to garnish wages or do much else. He has had no problems obtaining a current driver's license or American passport.

I must stress that his situation is unique, but I'm offering it up in contrast to the "OMG you MUST pay or ELSE!" doom and gloom in the comments. If you're already living outside of the system, if you've given up on "normal" American life and caring about credit, then there is no reason to keep paying. You're not going to get detained at customs or other crazy fear-mongering nonsense cooked up in this thread (I dare anyone to find one instance of an American citizen being detained at customs over defaulted student loan debt.).

Fuck the people telling you that you have a "moral obligation" to pay. That is based on their morals, not yours. There is no universal moral code that ethically obligates you or anyone else to pay back their debts. That's a decision you need to make for yourself based on your own personal beliefs. Personally, though, I'm of the opinion that if banks and corporations are given a free pass to make "unethical" and often illegal business decisions, then there is no reason why your personal financial decisions should be held to a higher moral standard.

[–]bad_news_bores 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Yeah, the idea that customs cares about debts is absurd. (Though perhaps one day they will, if lenders lobby hard enough.)

Also the idea that debts follow you to other countries. No they fucking don't. Canada and the U.S., two countries where it would make the most sense to share credit scores, don't even have compatible credit score systems.

When you move from one country to the other, you end up with zero credit score because you've never had a loan/credit card in the new country. It's actually quite annoying.

[–]Axana 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Exactly. The people claiming that defaulting on student loan debt will cause you to to lose your passport, be extradited, detained at customs, or be otherwise prevented from international travel need to put up or shut up. I challenge the armchair lawyers to show us one case of this happening over defaulted student loan debt. Just one. Because if any of this actually happened in real life, we would have heard about it by now.

[–]chunes 5 ポイント6 ポイント

I do not have enough upvotes for this comment. Finally, a post that belongs in this sub.

[–]tn18947 3 ポイント4 ポイント

The ones trying to scare resistors with stories about international defaulter dragnets never post links to substantiate their claims.

[–]XxThRaSheRxX[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント

My situation:

I graduated in December '11 with a degree in linguistics from a UC (University of CA) and immediately was confronted with the level of debt that is typical of graduates these days. Personally, I know I have it on the lighter end (only something like $27,000 at the time), but still it was a lot for me, far more than any amount of money I had ever owned or even seen in real life.

So I ran.

I moved to Japan, where I have been working as an English teacher for two years now. I have not made a single payment. In all that time it looks like I've accrued about $7,000 in fees and another $3,000 in interest. At first I was thinking about it constantly but as time has gone on, I've thought about it less and less. Sometimes a whole day even goes by where it doesn't enter my mind.

I just got this email from my dad in America. He's in the process of (trying to) sell his house because he can't keep up with the mortgage payments.

I don't know what to do. I'm seriously thinking I might just keep running for the rest of my life- never go back to America, never contact the bank, just let it grow and grow and "pay it off" by denying its power over me. Or is that stupid? Is it incredibly stupid maybe even?

I'm 25.

Someone please, tell me where to go from here. Other stories of loan default also very welcome. I know I'm not the only one who needs help.

[–]jgi 28 ポイント29 ポイント

As things are right now with student loan debt held by the US Department of Education, you will pay this if you live and work in the US. They will garnish your wages, they will withhold tax refunds, they will garnish Social Security. If you're serious about this default, you might never want to return to the US. Maybe there will be some legislation in the next decade that will ease the pain, and perhaps you can wait that out. As more and more people default like you, I think we'll see a change. I think 5-10 years, personally, before it really starts to get bad.

Enjoy Japan! Check out /r/onebag and /r/digitalnomad for some more ideas on minimalist travel.

[–]realworldcalling 13 ポイント14 ポイント

I imagine OP is not alone in running from his debt. If draft dodgers were eventually given a blanket pardon for committing a felony, something must be done in the future to forgive defaulted loan status and bring "debt dodgers" back into the country.

[–]darkstar3333 7 ポイント8 ポイント

He might need to run far, if the US has a judgement against you countries with agreements will allow the US to seize and garnish foreign wages/accounts.

[–]Akamaru 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Basically, all English speaking countries have this agreement. George W. Bush set up a reciprocity system at the start of the Iraq War in order to prevent people from running to other countries (draft dodging was the original target) to avoid legal repercussions from non-compliance with US law.

[–]Beatle7 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Unless you're on a pure cash/trade lifestyle, with no bank accounts of any kind. You can store $1300 in a single gold coin.

[–]SeekingAlpha 4 ポイント5 ポイント

National sovereignty is being eroded as we march towards global governance. In 10 years, OP may well need to seek out a third-world backwater to avoid his creditors as trans-national agreements may limit his ability to engage in above-board labor (without wage garnishment) in any advanced national economy.

For better or worse, it's becoming more difficult to run and to hide.

Comparison to draft dodgers is unfit as they held no specific monetary debt obligations.

[–]Akamaru 3 ポイント4 ポイント

So true. The IRS was recently able to get Swiss banks to turn over all of their tax cheats to them. This is unprecedented as the Swiss banking system is well known for anonymous banking. If rich people can't run and hide from financial situations, the rest of us don't have much luck.

[–]ErisGrey 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Last I heard, the default rate was around 20% at the 3 year mark. Definitely a high enough percentage to where we need to do more than just fining the schools.

[–]Leovinus_Jones 4 ポイント5 ポイント

That depends on whether or not the current economic disgrace of student loans in the U.S. comes to be regarded as 'bad' after the fact, as Vietnam did. It certainly shows no signs of slowing.

More likely is that eventually, in the years to come, the U.S. will hit its inevitable breaking point and devolve into something far worse. Police State, Balkanization, Civil War, anarchy, dystopia, take your pick - and that when the smoke clears, he might be able to return to his home area under whatever government exists. That said, I'd consider this an 'optimistic' scenario.

More likely things will just get worse and worse until most of the U.S. resembles medieval Europe in terms of social classes and serfdom. He's far better off in Japan where he can at least make a living wage and have personal and economic freedom.

[–]lumpiebits 2 ポイント3 ポイント

those with student debt should make for another country's hills. that'd be amusing to see. we would lose a lot of the hipster kids I'd wager.

[–]goodguygronk 49 ポイント50 ポイント

First, it's blunt but needs to be said - I think you're stupid for running. Second, this sub bitches about inequality and rarely provides helpful advice. Go to /r/personalfinance and post, exclude the image and just write out the figures. Provide insight into your current financial situation (how much you make, saved, etc.). Good luck.

[–]Akamaru 10 ポイント11 ポイント

Best advice on this thread. /r/lostgeneration isn't the place to go if you need help putting your life back together.

[–]witchsbrew 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Sometimes this subreddit turns into a defeatist circlejerk. Rational advice is very often met with hostility.

[–]Akamaru 2 ポイント3 ポイント

$26k isn't that much money to skip town on and ruin your credit over. It's like $300/mo for 10 years at 6% interest (interest rate is a guess).

Your credit standing is worth more than $300/mo for 10 years for an education at a world class public university system...

[–]Bab5crusade 2 ポイント3 ポイント

It's not stupidity. It's rebellion. We should not be required to be slaves of debt.

[–]gatsby365 36 ポイント37 ポイント

It's more Indentured Servitude.

Don't insult what actually happens to Slaves by equating "Someone loaned me something and expects to recoup their investment"

And I say that as someone who is still paying on student loans a decade after graduating.

[–]derkdadurr 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Wage slavery is a long talked about comparison between slavery and the wage labor system. Dating back to Cicero, the wages for labor system has been questioned as immoral, unjustifiable, and dehumanizing. I don't think it's that big a stretch to call is slavery.

We're privileged to high hell, but we were all told we had to go to college by our friends, family, school, and all of society, and now there's an entire generation destined to keep their heads down and follow the line because we've got $70K in loans to pay off. We're enslaved in a system we did not choose, wherein we are on the line for a lifetime full of unfulfilling work.

We're not insulting what happens to slaves when we compare our struggle to theirs. Nothing is sacred; everything is fair game in academia. We may not be in academia, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to act as if we are.

[–]rockets_meowth 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I agree. I knew what I was doing when I did it. For me the best way to make money was spend it at college. Its obviously expnsive but I knew this would be the result and still judged it worth it.

Not being fully aware of the magnitude of a loan is no excuse even if it was unfair, you signed it knowng that.

[–]gatsby365 10 ポイント11 ポイント

Yep.

People get so trapped in the "Done with high school, better go to college" trap, when they should probably do anything else for 2-5 years and then go to college with a better understanding of their true self, their work style, and the financial realities of both need and want.

I went to a small private college (not horribly expensive, but at least a 2.5x sticker price compared to the regional publics in my state) to be a Youth Minister. 15 years later, I'm an atheist working in education. If I had let 23 year old me make the decisions, instead of 18 year old me, I probably would have used a bit more research and forethought on what is - bar none - the most important decision I've made in 33 years on this planet

Making 18 year olds responsible for that kind of decision is borderline criminal.

[–]eye_of_the_sloth 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I skipped the college path out of high school and worked in the real world for 4 years, it took about that long until I was fully convinced that blue collar and non degree careers are not for me. I'm starting school this week for my AA and hope to have a concrete decision on what bachelors to get in two years when I transfer to a four year university. I can guarantee you that if I went out of high school, I would have wasted all of my resources, that person was an idiot.

I'm thinking of Commercial music with a concentration in music business. But part of me says fuck the music industry, it's dead and cruel, so i'm thinking of Geology, natures my home.

[–]Reaperdude97 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Hows about we shouldnt even have to pay for college. It is investment for the future, the governments of the world should not be forcing their future to be working in indentured servitude.

[–]gatsby365 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Good grief.

[–]Totenglocke42 6 ポイント7 ポイント

If you don't want to repay debt, then don't take out the loans in the first place. I'm sitting on $50k in student loans, but I also realize that I made the decision to take out those loans.

[–]plentyofrabbits 7 ポイント8 ポイント

You signed the papers - you are therefore required to repay your debt.

I understand college is expensive without loans - I have them too - and I'm not saying changes don't have to be made, but your point's going to come across much better when you're making the argument that you have a job with fulltime pay, you're on IBR and maybe PSLF, and you're STILL having trouble keeping up with your loans, rather than if you're making the argument that rebellion is the only option. Grow up.

[–]Akamaru 6 ポイント7 ポイント

It's not stupidity. It's rebellion. We should not be required to be slaves of debt.

It's a naive and immature mindset at best, downright disgusting and delusional at worst. You borrow money, you pay it back! In the USA we're not entitled to free or low cost higher education (as federal policy). If you don't like that you have two options: LEAVE and get an education elsewhere or change the laws. Either options would be a positive act of rebellion. Throwing yourself to the lions by agreeing to legally binding debt contracts, then not following through with them is simply stupid. You have no leverage and no sympathy from the system. It's like walking into a restaurant you don't like, eating their food, then not paying as an way of showing them how bad their food is.

Slaves on the other hand had no choice and were physically (raped) and mentally brutalized their entire lives. I can tell you right now that no banker came into your house in the middle of the night and raped you or your preteen children as you tried to sleep after working for 12 hours in the heat all day doing manual labor. Then made you carry the babies to term in order to make new generations of slaves.

I digress, the OP isn't in insurmountable debt. His debt is approximately the cost of a low-end luxury car. Big deal. The OP was just immature and ran instead of manning up and facing the music. He would have had his debt paid off by now had he focused on paying it back through his English abroad work. We both went to UC and I saw the bills each quarter and knew how much it was costing me. For someone to go to UC all 4 years and not know that it costs thousands upon thousands of dollars to attend, from my perspective, is ridiculous. $30k in debt to go to UC is pretty good actually in the scheme of things considering one year's tuition by itself is close to $15k and most of the UC schools are located in cities with absurdly high rent and cost of living.

[–]chunes 8 ポイント9 ポイント

I digress, the OP isn't in insurmountable debt. His debt is approximately the cost of a low-end luxury car. Big deal.

This is one of the craziest things I've seen in this sub. Being gen x, you probably wouldn't understand how fucking much money that is to someone who is freshly graduated these days. There just isn't any fucking money out there any more. When I was working, that much debt was fucking 3 and a half years of salary for me. But with living expenses, it would be impossible to pay off.

[–]Honeychile6841 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I sympathize with this college loan high interest bloat rip off. I really do. But OP and many readers on this sub needs to grow the fuck up. OP made no attempts to pay shit. Don't bring gen xyzabc on this. I had a friend that taught English over seas and made 70k *tax free cash * a year doing this. I won't assume that OP has a similar deal but, he could have made better choices. Also young people put some serious time into thinking on your college major. Please. I think OP is trying to do the right thing now so there is that.

[–]Akamaru 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm not Generation X, I graduated in 2007 as the economy collapsed. I'm most definitely a Millennial at age 29.

I knew how much money I was spending on my education...as I was spending it when I attended the Univerisity of California system. I don't understand the "sticker shock" people describe once they graduate and see their loan bills. The schools tell you how much it will cost even before orientation.

At orientation UC gives you an estimate of what school and cost of living for the local area will cost on an annual basis broken out by various different categories. My school was estimated to cost $23k per year for Student Fees (tuition), housing, food, books, transportion, entertainment, etc. I spent about $20k per year in practice. This was for the freshman class of 2003, which I was a part of. "Student Fees" are now officially called "Tuition" and they have DOUBLED in 10 years since I was a freshman, but they costs are laid out in a very transparent manner.

No one said school was going to be free. If you're not prepared to pay for it then don't attend. If you're going to borrow money, pay it back, otherwise it's theft.

[–]a1will 0 ポイント1 ポイント

When I was working, that much debt was fucking 3 and a half years of salary for me

You made <$10k/year?

[–]dasboob 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Teaching English abroad somewhere like East Asia is very lucrative- in most cases your rent and insurance, as well as flights to and from the country, are provided as a part of your contract. I know many people who have been able to save/pay off loans between 10-15 grand per year, while still living more than comfortably, on the basic standard salary provided by that country's English market. If OP is an ESL teacher he's making somewhere between 25,000-40,000 a year and paying less in rent than he would in America, if anything at all.

[–]jgkeeb 3 ポイント4 ポイント

We all grew up being told you're going to college. And when it actually came time to go they say sign here and have fun.

It's our parents responsibility to protect us. It's educational institutions responsibility to educate and not profit. And it's financial institutions responsibility to maintain some sense of morals and ethics over the pursuit of the all mighty dollar.

The whole thing is a scam at the expense of 18 year old nieve kids. It is slavery, it is a social control strategy, and the fault lies with previous generations. Not us.

[–]Akamaru 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Right, I understand that perspective, but what should happen and what actually happened are two different things. The institutions and Baby Boomers (generalizing) messed up or were downright preditory in nature. But you can't be paralyzed by a set back in life.

Where do you go from here? You have your whole life to live, yet many on here want to feel sorry for themselves because they had less than optimal outcomes in life. $26k isn't that much money, yet this guy is running away from his debts like he didn't want to go to a world class public university and major in something he was passionate about (lingustics isn't a high earning major). That education was going to cost SOMETHING. $26k is a dop in the bucket for the education he received.

Calling this situation "slavery" is hyperbole on your part, but it's deeply offensive when taken into the context of people who are actually slaves today. The privileges and responsibilities of middle class life isn't "slavery". Just because you were peer pressured and weak willed doesn't mean you didn't have options. You could have walked away from the situation, many do. Slaves don't have that option, to physically remove themselves from a situation they don't like.

[–]a1will 0 ポイント1 ポイント

But you can't be paralyzed by a set back in life.

Exactly. It might sound cliche, but it's all about how you play your hand.

[–]rynomilner 4 ポイント5 ポイント

That's such a childish attitude. You're not required to be a slave. If you borrow money and promise to pay it back, you pay it back. You don't borrow the money and then just say "I'm no slave, fuckers!" and pretend like that's a legitimate or justified or even noble attitude.

[–]ticviking 1 ポイント2 ポイント

No it's not childish. My lender agreed to a risk. When I cannot afford to live because I am working only for him I have essentially become a slave. He(my lender) took a risk, and I can't pay. He can suck up his losses.

[–]chunes 3 ポイント4 ポイント

This is such a childish attitude that doesn't take into account the fact that every single authority figure in a child's life will tell him to go to college.

Well, guess what? Going into ridiculous debt is the only way to attend. There almost isn't a choice unless you're willing to be an edgy non-conformist.

[–]rynomilner -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Somehow I managed to go to college full time for 5 years in the US while working and have everything paid off within a few years of graduating. And it's not like I have a 6 figure job, I've never made more than 25k in a year. So no it's not impossible.

I'm sympathetic to those who had no education in how money works before starting college, but it's not rocket science and you have to take responsibility.

[–]chunes 2 ポイント3 ポイント

How the fuck is "I did it, so why should it be a problem for you?" a valid argument. People are different. What doesn't seem like a big deal to you seems insurmountable to other people. You seem spiteful, just like every old conservative out there. "I had to suffer, so you should have to also!"

With people like you out there, it's no wonder why no one wants to reform the system of selling our young people into bondage. WTF are you even doing in this sub? It doesn't seem like you belong here.

[–]rynomilner 0 ポイント1 ポイント

1) You said "going into ridiculous debt is the only way". I was saying that's not at all true.

2) I'm all for reform. It's desperately needed. That is completely separate from this conversation about whether students with debt have any obligation to repay that debt.

3) Forgive me for interrupting your circle jerk.

コメントをもっと表示する (19 返事)

    [–]TheNoize 0 ポイント1 ポイント

    If you borrow money and promise to pay it back, you pay it back

    No, that's childish. It's childish not to recognize "borrowing money" SHOULD NOT BE A THING FOR A YOUNG POOR STUDENT TRYING TO GET AN EDUCATION IN ORDER TO BE A PRODUCTIVE MEMBER OF THE AMERICAN SOCIETY.

    If you're gonna keep obeying all the rules like a good boy, and pointing fingers at those who don't, we're ALL fucked.

    [–]a1will 0 ポイント1 ポイント

    The thing is that loans are not required to attend college. There are plenty of non-traditional students who attend college without loans. You won't get it done in 4 years, and it won't be easy, but it is very doable.

    [–]rynomilner -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

    It's not some maxim that college should be free. It's a great idea but that's not how it works here. If you made a decision as an adult, you take the responsibility. You can't just blame everyone else.

    [–]TheNoize 1 ポイント2 ポイント

    It's not blaming everyone else. No one is blaming you. It's acknowledging the system is rigged. Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that?

    It's a great idea but that's not how it works here

    That's how revolutions always start.

    [–]mooducky 1 ポイント2 ポイント

    There is no moral justification for paying back debt due to an amoral entity. If they take every chance possible to screw you, I believe there is a moral obligation to screw them first.

    Ethics, well, ethics are a different story. But I'd rather be moral than ethical.

    [–]mentalstate 4 ポイント5 ポイント

    We should not be required to be slaves of debt

    You're not required

    [–]ferrarisnowday 1 ポイント2 ポイント

    Jesus Christ. "Slaves" is pretty fucking strong language for debt the size of a car payment. Does it suck? Yes, but could OP be out of it in 5 - 10 years? Probably. Maybe even sooner, who knows.

    *edited for clarity

    [–]die_civ_scum 2 ポイント3 ポイント

    White 20-somethings suffering inconvenience or austerity = slavery

    コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

      [–]a1will 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      I'm with you on the sentiment.

      Where we disagree is someone who willfully took someones money and then reneged on paying it back being someone to venerate.

      I am a non traditional student who is doing so outside of the student loan system. My gf paid her way through school through two jobs, scholarships and a small amount of loans at one of the most expensive schools in the country.

      There are ways to get an education without accumulating a boatload of debt.

      There is a word for OP, it is called a "thief".

      [–]TheNoize 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      It's not stupidity if EVERYONE does it!! That's the problem here. We're slaves and no one is doing anything to show enough is enough. When someone does it, we point at them: "boo, he's running! boo, that's stupid"

      At least they're doing SOMETHING to show all we have left is disobedience. What are you doing about it, mr. By-the-book?

      [–]kakiage 4 ポイント5 ポイント

      Yo college is not free. What on earth are you on about? He went to school and now he has to pay it back.

      [–]TheNoize 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      Pay back WHAT? As a taxpayer, I WANT my money to pay for his education. It's exactly the investment I want to make. I DON'T want my money to pay for wars, banker salaries, or churches - and yet it does!

      As far as I'm concerned, he owes me NOTHING! Got a free education? GOOD FOR HIM! Let him go free, let the banks pay for it. I hope everyone does it, because I want an educated generation to grow up with, not a dumb and apathetic one, slave to the banks because they couldn't afford the education to learn the value of civil disobedience in the first place.

      [–]plentyofrabbits 5 ポイント6 ポイント

      Not everyone is doing it, dipshit! I graduated with ~60k in loans. I immediately applied for IBR and got it, which put my student loan payments at 0 for, like, three years. They're $236 a month right now (totally doable on my salary). I also do my best to stick to PSLF jobs so my debt will be forgiven earlier, and the forgiven amount not taxed as income.

      This stuff isn't hard to understand, it's not hard to find, you just have to look a little, or maybe call the department of ed and say - hey, I can't afford this, what can we do? That's called being responsible.

      [–]TheNoize -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

      No one cares that you think they're "totally doable"! They WON'T be doable for your kids, or grandkids. Besides, EDUCATION is an investment for the future of this country - not just yours. The country should fork the bill, not individuals.

      This stuff isn't hard to understand. You just need to get your head out of your own ass, and realize it's a widespread problem that affects other people, even if you think you're comfortable with it!

      [–]plentyofrabbits 7 ポイント8 ポイント

      I agree with your principles - however, that does not mean that I am not still obligated to keep my word when I take out debt and promise to pay it back. I am working to change the system, but that wasn't the system when I went to school, and I knew that, and I act like an adult and pay back the debts I acquired.

      Seriously - would you also refuse to pay a car loan? Or your mortgage? If you don't like the system, work to change it, but also maybe keep your word and pay back your debts like an adult - otherwise, you are not worth the "investment" that you think ideally should have been made in you by your fellow taxpayers.

      [–]minecraft_ece 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      If you don't like the system, work to change it, but also maybe keep your word and pay back your debts like an adult

      Corporations decide to not pay their debts all the time. It is a business decision and is treated as such. You are placing yourself at a huge disadvantage to not look at your own finances the same way.

      Seriously - would you also refuse to pay a car loan? Or your mortgage?

      Absolutely if either was seriously underwater and I lived in a no-recourse state. In these cases there is no moral issue whatsoever; it's literally part of the contract that both parties agreed to that you can return the collateral and be done with it.

      [–]plentyofrabbits 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      you can return the collateral

      You can't return an education - or would you agree to have your degree rescinded if you didn't pay your loans?

      Corporations decide to not pay their debts all the time.

      I am not a corporation, and the actions of corporations have no bearing on what an individual's responsibilities are. Corporate law is completely different from civil law for this reason.

      [–]minecraft_ece 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      Adhering to morality above all else in these matters is just an invitation to be taken advantage of. I don't like it, but that's just the way things are.

      Let's look at what OP posted. In addition to the original loan amount, he owes:

      • $3053 in interest
      • $6837 in "fees"

      That fees line is unconscionable. It is a pure profit grab by the debt collector because they can get away with it. Nobody has spent $7k trying to collect on a 25K loan, that would be stupid.

      I am not a corporation, and the actions of corporations have no bearing on what an individual's responsibilities are.

      Even when corporations purchase laws that allow them to commit blatantly immoral acts like charging outrageous fees that no basis in reality?

      [–]TheNoize -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

      I agree with your principles - however, that does not mean that I am not still obligated to keep my word when I take out debt and promise to pay it back.

      You're obligated if you want to be obedient and stay out of trouble without making any change to the system in place, yes.

      If you want to impart change, then you need to join those who disobey. That's just how society works, my friend.

      Seriously - would you also refuse to pay a car loan? Or your mortgage?

      No, because I'm a coward about it, and I'm scared it'll be even harder for me to survive, because I'm not that desperate yet, and things could get worse for selfish me. But I completely support if those who are desperate decide to stop paying. I applaud it, and it encourages me to do the same.

      If you don't like the system, work to change it, but also maybe keep your word and pay back your debts like an adult

      If your definition of "adult" is someone who always plays by the book, even when the system is fucking you in the ass, then yeah. But that's not change, that's quietly accepting it.

      otherwise, you are not worth the "investment" that you think ideally should have been made in you by your fellow taxpayers.

      A lot of banks aren't worth the investment of taxpayers, and yet they still get it, because they are in control.

      I'd rather 1 fellow taxpayer take my contribution and run because he believes we've reached a limit, and disobedience is required to bring media attention. But that's just me, because I want things to change.

      If you think you got yours and you're OK, go ahead and conform. But please don't try to convince others to conform too.

      [–]flamehead2k1 2 ポイント3 ポイント

      OP didn't get screwed, he had 27k of debt which enabled him to get a degree which enabled him to get a job teaching in a first world country.

      There are some people who got fucked but this isn't a fair example.

      [–]anonymousjon -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

      I really hope in five or ten years you come back and read what you've written here dude. If you take a service and agree to pay for it and then choose not to pay you're stealing, regardless the circumstances. Being an adult is taking responsibility for the choices you've made, which the OP has chosen not to do.

      [–]TheNoize 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      If you take a service and agree to pay for it and then choose not to pay you're stealing,

      That's exactly the dogma the bank industry wants you to religiously follow, while they steal from you without you even knowing.

      [–]plentyofrabbits -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

      If you want to impart change, then you need to join those who disobey.

      False. It's completely possible to work within the extant system and still affect change for the future.

      But I completely support if those who are desperate decide to stop paying.

      So, you advocate theft. Call it what it is - it's stealing, not protest. Also - mortgages and car loans are often for larger amounts of money than student loans and many of the creditors in those cases are predatory. To be intellectually consistent, you shouldn't be paying your car loan and/or mortgage. However, you don't actually seem to care about being intellectually consistent, you just want to be contrary where the consequences are less tangible to you (can't repossess the education you stole). Would you still refuse to pay your student loans if your education (or at least the credit you get for it) could be suspended, your professional licenses revoked? Bet you wouldn't.

      that's not change, that's quietly accepting it.

      Another false dichotomy (you're fond of using those - stop it, they're fallacies). There are more options than the two you present. You seem to place a lot of value on the idea of being a special snowflake nonconformist to the detriment of actually functioning within society. I choose to be a responsible member of a family, community and society while actively striving for social and economic change in those communities and the society to which I belong. It's possible, but again, you prefer to be contrary because you think it makes you more "serious."

      But that's just me, because I want things to change.

      Seriously, though. What else are you doing to actually affect change other than just not paying your bills? Are you visiting your representatives at the local, state and federal levels? Are you organizing letter-writing campaigns in your communities? Are you attending local political and economic events? Do you even know whether there will be any ballot initiatives for your state in November, extra credit if you know what they are? I'm willing to bet money that you just quietly seethe while ignoring your financial obligations, write anonymous comments on the internet, and vote every four years when it comes time to pick a new president.

      [–]TheNoize 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      False. It's completely possible to work within the extant system and still affect change for the future.

      Sure, possible. But viable? Not so sure, sometimes.

      So, you advocate theft. Call it what it is - it's stealing, not protest

      Protest involves disobedience, whatever it might be. People know they've had opportunities stolen from them, and they're fighting back the only way they can. You can call it what you want, it doesn't matter.

      Would you still refuse to pay your student loans if your education (or at least the credit you get for it) could be suspended, your professional licenses revoked? Bet you wouldn't.

      That already happens. Students have literally nothing to lose anymore.

      I choose to be a responsible member of a family, community and society while actively striving for social and economic change in those communities and the society to which I belong. It's possible, but again, you prefer to be contrary because you think it makes you more "serious."

      No, I actively strive for social change too, I do activism and contribute with my work and money to activism groups. I just don't point fingers to people who decide to disobey! Following that logic, you'd say Edward Snowden should be tried as a criminal by this system, and you seem totally OK with that, even though his disobedience put things in motion for major positive change!

      What else are you doing to actually affect change other than just not paying your bills?

      I AM paying my bills, that's the problem! I probably shouldn't. I wish I had the courage not to, so people could rise up in mass, like a general consumer strike.

      Are you visiting your representatives at the local, state and federal levels?

      Still in the process of becoming a citizen, so I can do that without being accused. For now I'm sticking to activism only, because that's the only option I know. I'm not saying people should stop voting. I'm saying drastic changes need more than just voting. They need lots and lots of civil disobedience.

      [–]plentyofrabbits -1 ポイント0 ポイント

      Protest involves disobedience

      Incorrect. I can protest marijuana's illegality without smoking pot on the white house lawn. I can protest same-sex marriage bans without getting married to a person of my gender. I can advocate pro-choice policy without getting an abortion. The point of a protest is to advertise the number of people who agree with your opinion, not just to simply disobey.

      Following that logic, you'd say Edward Snowden should be tried as a criminal by this system, and you seem totally OK with that

      ANOTHER false dichotomy. My opinion of Snowden's actions is much more nuanced than that.

      I'm saying drastic changes need more than just voting. They need lots and lots of civil disobedience.

      I agree with the first statement, but not the second. I'm going to use segregation in the US because I think that's the most readily available example of the reason why civil disobedience is ineffective except in very specific cases.

      If you were born Black in the American South at most times in US History, then you were born into a system which actively discriminated against you based on something you could not control. You have no choice in your skin colour, and you would have been born into a system that while seemingly democratic, would have separated you from your white peers (I'm aware that black/white is an oversimplification of race relations in the US but for this example it's appropriate) based only on your skin colour. The law in place was clearly discriminatory and unequal, and many brave citizens engaged in civil disobedience - politely refusing to abide by the clearly discriminatory laws - in protest. They affected a great amount of change, and it's not difficult to see why you would think that civil disobedience might be effective as pertains to student loans.

      However, there are many differences in play here that make civil disobedience inappropriate and ineffective. In no particular order, please consider that:

      • You chose to acquire student loans to finance your education. There are such things as grants, community colleges, and employment which can mitigate if not alleviate the cost of an education. There is also the option to choose not to go to college. By contrast, a black person born in Alabama in 1950 did not have the option of not participating in segregation - either they followed the law, or they broke it. There was no opting in or out of the broken system, whereas that option exists with education finance.

      • A student today signs loan agreements which state the terms under which that student borrows money, which includes terms for repayment. By signing that agreement, the student creates a contract between herself and the creditor, which is a private contract (even if the creditor is public) between student and lender, which is enforced by civil law. In the case of segregation, there is no private contract. A black person in Alabama in 1950 was literally a criminal, could and would be arrested, for failing to abide by the law. In contrast, a borrower who fails to repay their loans is not a criminal, cannot and will not be arrested, for failing to abide by the civil contract between themselves and the creditor.

      • Also please consider that the US Department of Education bases its policies in large part around the data they have available on their borrowers. For example, let's say you have a loan from them that you cannot afford to repay. If you work with them and request an assistance program, they have the data that says that you've requested assistance. If you, on the other hand, simply decide not to pay, they have no way of knowing whether you forgot, or cannot pay, or are irresponsible, or are dead, or in jail, or whatever. When you scale these to the millions of loans they hold, you can see that it's actually more in the collective interest to give them the data they need to see that the country is having trouble than to simply refuse to pay - they can't work to fix problems they don't know they have.

      If you're looking to actually enact the massive policy and legal change necessary to establish a public college system (which I wholeheartedly agree with, by the way), you're going to need to do more than skip on your bills - in fact, for the reasons above, skipping on your bills is not civil disobedience (because it's not against the law) like you want to claim - you're going to need to show that there's a better way. The best way to show a better way is to:

      1. Give the USDOE the data they need to show the country is struggling by doing your part, paying your bills but requesting assistance - in effect saying, "I want to be a responsible citizen, but the current system is broken and makes it impossible to do so without subsidy";

      2. Clearly show the fiscal and intellectual advantages to a public system; and,

      3. Vote actively (and encourage others to do the same) for political candidates who support your ideology.

      [–]gatsby365 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      Start a website telling 18 year olds not to go to college at 18.

      Work with community leaders to make resource banks for young professionals who have to decide between payments and necessities.

      Go to community youth groups - Boy/Girl Scouts, YMCA, Boys Club, churches, etc - and talk about the dangers of student loans and other financial hazards.

      [–]eye_of_the_sloth -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

      If you got your college paid for through a loan agreement with a bank you should pay it off. If you go to a different country and teach English why do that after you spend someone else's money, now you have that over your head. We are not entitled, and I dont think thats the issue, it's more about survival. With out a degree we face a cruel reality as a lower class citizen. So to survive we go on through in hopes of landing a respectable career with a living wage. This is where the problems begin, the degree costs way too much, and there's not enough positions, and very rare when they offer a decent wage. So we are left with our current shitty situation.

      I dont know what to tell you, if you flee, flee well, if you stay we can fight together for better conditions. So basically it's fight or flight, OP took off, no hard feelings to each his own.

      [–]TheNoize 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      why do that after you spend someone else's money

      That "someone else" is the banks who spent trillions of dollars of taxpayer money. Stop treating banks like they're regular people with bills to pay. They're not.

      [–]eye_of_the_sloth -1 ポイント0 ポイント

      no one made you take out a loan, the banks shit they pull outside of your agreement should have nothing to do with whether or not you hold your end up. Dont think I treat banks like my friend, But dont act like they forced us into this. We could have walked, and that is my point that its survival, because avoiding college due to future loan debt is a harder life than dealing with the bullshit. We could just stop using banks all together, but that has its issues aswell. Arguing that banks don't need to be repaid on loans won't really get very far. I think we should focus on interest rates, cost of education, and raising wages from the bottom up to help provide a living wage to those less fortunate. Followed closely by regulations in the banking system.

      [–]plentyofrabbits 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      Unfortunately there's very little OP can do now that the shit is in collections. If he'd bothered when his shit was current he wouldn't have had to look far to find out about IBR, which would have put his monthly payments at close to zero, and kept him current while out of the country.

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]7trXMk6Z 13 ポイント14 ポイント

        i disagree with every one else here. congrats, and fuck them. dont let it burden you.

        [–]thapol 6 ポイント7 ポイント

        For everyone freaking out, this isn't that terrible of a situation. The loan will be sold off to a collection agency for pennies on the dollar if it hasn't already. Once they start moaning about it you can strike a deal to pay off at a fraction of the original amount.

        Plan? Keep ignoring it since they can't come after you anyways. You can't be sent to jail or picked up a the border; they'll just come after your wages if you have a job on US books. Call every now and again saying you have X amount of money (say 3 to 5 thousand) you can give them (after saving up, of course). If they disagree, say I'm sorry and move on. The longer it goes unpaid, the more they'll be willing to cut their losses.

        That's of course if you choose to pay it off at all, and as others have said, why would you need to?

        [–]motsanciens 1 ポイント2 ポイント

        You sure this applies to student loan debt, specifically? I defaulted, and they were poised to start garnishing my wages right before I started paying voluntarily.

        [–]thapol 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        It happens with any kind of debt, really. But more so with student loan debt because you're usually guaranteed to get a payout.

        It's usually also in the case where you don't have wages to garnish, or if your income is too low where they can't (in the case of federal loans, at least). I gather if you're only able to make $20 monthly payments on a $100k loan with little chance for recovery, then it would also be sold off.

        Years ago there were a TON of debt consolidation companies that would do exactly this kind of negotiation work with the company that bought your loan; maybe even buy it themselves and still make tens of thousands from buying your loan for pennies on the dollar, and getting you to pay back 50 to 75%. It was ludicrous then, and I can't imagine it's changed much.

        [–]heliorecursion 11 ポイント12 ポイント

        The blunt truth is this: you have a job now that you are in Japan and you probably make decent, though maybe not great, money.

        27k is hard but manageable. If there is any way that you can pay this debt down, you need to do it. If it's a federal student loan, there are a lot of options, including IBR, though it's a desperation tactic.

        You need to take care of this now before you basically have to seek unofficial asylum in Asia for the rest of your life.

        [–]realworldcalling 7 ポイント8 ポイント

        He has already defaulted, his debt is in collections and all other repayment options are off the table.

        [–]gatsby365 1 ポイント2 ポイント

        And he now owes at least 6k more.

        [–]ferrarisnowday 8 ポイント9 ポイント

        That $6K is legally negotiable. Only principle and interest are legally required to be repaid on federal loans.

        [–]Akamaru 3 ポイント4 ポイント

        $33k isn't impossible to pay back. He's better off taking the $6k in fees and chocking it up to being young and dumb and moving on. He lost all leverage when he ran away from his responsibilities and entered default.

        [–]mooducky 4 ポイント5 ポイント

        They would likely forgive these fees, if you're a staunch negotiator.

        [–]Akamaru 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Interesting, well might as well try, I don't see how it would hurt.

        [–]heliorecursion 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Guess I read it wrong then.

        [–]tn18947 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Nah bro, he could rehabilitate the loans then put them on IBR with minimal payments for decades. There are so many defaulters right now that the lenders are very accommodating.

        [–]Akamaru 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        The US Government is the last person you want to owe money to. Whether it's the IRS or the Department of Education. They'll get their money one way or another, they have more legal tools than banks to do so.

        [–]Lite-brite 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Most people on here don't seem to understand this is not a private loan company. This is the most powerful entity on the face of the planet and it wants it's money back. It's his life but I hope people talking about what happened with their private loans understand this is an entirely different situation.

        [–]olseadog 6 ポイント7 ポイント

        You're going to have to come home and face the music. You can teach English around the world for a lifetime but the truth is you're going to want to come and see family or even change things in life. It gets a lot harder after 35. Even harder at 45. You're posting here because you know it's going to hit you. Hey, you've got a degree. You probably speak some Japanese. Here's an option: I know the SF Bay Area might have opportunities. Or go to China for your next position and get some Mandarin under your belt. You will be given a teaching position (Jr. High/ High School) and allowed to work on your credential at the same time (Calif. is desperate for Mandarin teachers). In the end... just come home and bite the bullet. It really isn't the end of the world. Ignoring it will only make it worse. Besides there very well may be federal programs which at least allow deferment (teach in an urban area while you get your sh*t together).

        [–]swiddie 13 ポイント14 ポイント

        What stops him from entering the country to attend funerals and weddings? His wages will be garnished and he'll be sued, bit isn't all that just civil courts? So no arrest warrants? He can have a lawyer represent him in court if sued.

        [–]darkstar3333 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

        He can be detained US customs. The IRS works along side HDS, your passports will be flagged upon re-entering if a judgement has been issued against you.

        Your passport renewal will be canceled if you owe debts to the state:

        http://answers.usa.gov/system/templates/selfservice/USAGov/#!portal/1012/article/4463/Passports-Denials-Revocations-and-Restrictions

        [–]ddh0 9 ポイント10 ポイント

        Dude, nothing there refers to student loan defaults at all. This is WRONG, OP, don't listen to him.

        [–]swiddie 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        So he'll be without a passport? Is that legal?

        [–]ddh0 7 ポイント8 ポイント

        Not legal if he is out of the country and doesn't hold any other citizenship. It would be legal for them to revoke his passport once he's in the US, though they aren't going to do that over defaulted student loans.

        [–]darkstar3333 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Correct. They would refuse any attempt to renew the passport meaning that individual is basically against a clock of 5-10 years (depending on passport).

        If your passport expires when your abroad and the only way to get a renewal is to pay the loan you better get a passport elsewhere.

        Now the difficulty is that many other countries pull up financial data, if they see that your a US citizen running from US debt that may be grounds to reject your passport application.

        Running from financial problems does not work, throwing your hands up in the air instead of attempting to resolve the debt will always end poorly.

        [–]darkstar3333 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        A passport is property of the government who issued it can be revoked and seized at any time for any reason.

        [–]gatsby365 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Why wouldn't it be?

        [–]tn18947 1 ポイント2 ポイント

        Bullshit

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]GaiaWasAFeminist 10 ポイント11 ポイント

          You are irresponsible as fuck. My wife had loans of $150k and has paid them down to $60k. I have no sympathy for this bullshit.

          Here's what you have to do:

          1. Get a job that pays more than teaching in Japan. Don't fucking cry about it. If you can't find one, move. If you interview poorly, practice. GET BETTER.

          2. Save all of the money you make. ALL OF IT. No video games, no TV, no internet, no smartphone, no eating out. NO LUXURIES. Live in the cheapest possible place you can find and spend your free time reading.

          3. Put all of the money to your loans after you have a $4k safety fund.

          I have managed to live on $15k a year while making a $40k salary. With a college degree, you can get an entry-level office job that will pay about $30k. Take it.

          Your take-home from a $30k job will be about $20k. Try to live on $15k. That is $5k a year towards you loans. Assuming you get no promotions, you will be out of debt in 6 years.

          However, you will get promotions if you don't suck. In 2 years you will probably be making $40k. That means $15k towards loans. That means only in debt for 3 years.

          Stop stop whining about it and do it.

          I really am baffled by how irresponsible this is. It is indicative of where this sub has gone. I used to be about real-world economic difficulties our generation faces. You, however, ran away from a tiny amount of debt and should be embarrassed.

          Now is your chance to be an adult. Your extended childhood is over. You majored in something dumb. Good luck

          [–]kakiage 6 ポイント7 ポイント

          You had me until "you majored in something dumb". What is that all about?

          [–]reginaldaugustus 1 ポイント2 ポイント

          He's a STEMtard.

          [–]ScribbleBliss 0 ポイント1 ポイント

          Really, I couldn't take it seriously after reading 'with a college degree, you can get an entry-level office job that will pay about $30K'. Plenty of us are here with college degrees and unable to find paying jobs, let alone $30K permanent office jobs. What a fucking assumption...

          I haven't read the context of the whole thread, but Christ, I'm so fucking over people who, being fortunate enough to get jobs (almost always a cross-section of luck, social connections with no professional meaning, timing, and economic forces beyond any individual person's control), start indulging in that self-mythologizing revisionism that convinces them that their choice of major at the age of seventeen or earlier was some perfectly-rational act of brilliance that predestined them for their latter-day success, amounting to a life as inevitably righteous as John Galt's. Those of us who actually possess the inclination, rationality, and humility to think outside of our own bubble-like experiences know that these people are completely full of BS and really wish they would stop slithering in here to bully people about 'extended childhood' and such. Whatever the OP might be 'whining' about, this responder's best effort is to show up hear and whine even more obnoxiously to the tune of 'WHY CAN'T EVERYONE JUST BE THE SAME EXACT PERSON WITH THE SAME EXACT SITUATION AS MEEE!! THAT WOULD MAKE EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD SO MUCH EASIER!!!'.....in so many words.

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]Nawara_Ven 4 ポイント5 ポイント

            I saved like $18 000 CAD in two years teaching in Japan. The job is fine. I was relatively spendthrift the second year, too. He could have zero debts by age 27 if he wants.

            [–]GaiaWasAFeminist -1 ポイント0 ポイント

            Good lord. OP is worse than I thought. I would love to know more about his lifestyle when he was over there.

            [–]zagraw7 6 ポイント7 ポイント

            "Entry-level office job" lol.

            Fuck off.

            [–]chunes 4 ポイント5 ポイント

            30k for an entry level office job? lol. First of all, there's no such thing as entry level. 2 years experience, minimum, for more like 18k.

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–][削除されました]

              [deleted]

                [–]Kahilm 6 ポイント7 ポイント

                Yeah OP, just get a job that pays more than your current job. Why didn't you think of that already? Jeeze.

                [–]thapol 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                I think gwaf missed the sarcasm on that one. I'm amazed that in a subreddit dedicated to breaking the mantra of 'get a degree, get a job, and all will be right with the world' still has to deal with that mentality.

                Or, some folks in /r/lostgeneration don't realise that their ideas are same ones that caused it to exist in the first place.

                [–]GaiaWasAFeminist 6 ポイント7 ポイント

                Obviously he hasn't. He hasn't even bothered to pay the minimum due, which is likely around $100/mo.

                [–]koolbro2012 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                you're going to get downvoted because of the circle jerk going on here that excuses people from having to...god forbid...pay back money they borrowed. he basically went off to Japan to "teach" english and ignored his responsibilities at home. I would like a vacation to Japan too please...but i'm too busy busting my ass off and paying off my student loans.

                [–]Eudaimonics 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                Thanks for posting this.

                Though a smarter plan would have been just claiming your income as $0 - since your wages are in Yen and not with an American company - and sign up for a wage based repayment plan.

                Just need to do this every year. Since you don't have a job with a company signed up with the IRS it would be very difficult for them track down your employment information.

                Also, as long as there is not a warrant for your arrest or something, feel free to visit the US as much as you like.

                [–]Akamaru 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                You have to file taxes as an expat each year. The USA taxes its expatriots. However I doubt he made enough money to meet the high tax floor set for expatriots, so the return would simply be informational.

                I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't filing taxes given that he's not paying his debt back.

                [–]will370 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                If you've been working, why the hell haven't you made payments? This looks like it's your fault.

                [–]Witbox 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                Call them up, work something out and start paying off your debt.

                [–]altruautistic 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                Fuck your government. This is a ridiculous amount to pay for an education. If America wants to be a world leader, education should be provided for or at the very least, heavily subsidized.

                [–]andrewmalone14 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                First off, I really appreciate what you've written. I think it was beyond stupid for you to not pay your student loans, but you don't seem to be blaming other people or asking for handouts and that is admirable. I don't know what kind of job you may be able to get back in the United States, but consider the following:

                *You can negotiate those fees down, from other anecdotes I've heard, they really only want the principal and interest.

                *I think you are vastly overestimating how much 30,000 dollars is. If you were to come back to the United States and get a 30,000 dollar a year job (which is about 15 dollars an hour), you could easily put 10,000 dollars a year towards this debt and be debt free within 5 years. Living off 20,000 a year is not difficult depending on your rent, you didn't mention where you might live.

                *You need to come up with a plan that someone else who is not emotionally attached to the situation can help you design and follow. I bet you get horrible actual physical feelings in your gut thinking about the situation. This is a learned response and it has vastly complicated a pretty straightforward issue. Hell, it's even made you push the entire situation out of your mind.

                *Become much more critically aware of conventional wisdom. Between housing and college, nearly the sum total of all things told to us by government and parents in the last 20 years has turned out to not only be false, but also have resulted in errors that can cost you years worth of productivity. We should have limitless contempt for people who have been responsible for this (including ourselves.)

                Good luck OP, I sure hope you can figure this out.

                [–]stumpyhadtogo 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                You really think someone can just get a 30k job, don't you?

                [–]andrewmalone14 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                If you were to come back to the United States and get a 30,000 dollar a year job (which is about 15 dollars an hour)

                Please re-read this, this time without ascribing malevolent intentions to it.

                [–]AmbitionOfPhilipJFry -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                I have over a hundred thousand in student debt and I've paid off more than you owe in the last seven years and still owe more than you owed.

                Irresponsibility runs in your family. Man up and pay it or don't come back to the US. Either way grow the Hell up.

                [–]where2cop123 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                Why can't you claim economic hardship?

                [–]smacksaw -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                IANAL, but if you were a citizen of a country whose law allowed you to discharge the debt, it might work.

                Your problems are a passport renewal, IRS filings and getting permanent residence somewhere as a debtor in default.

                If you pay something, you're not in default.

                If I were you, and I wanted to run, I'd run somewhere quickly and legitimately immigrate before my personal file got too bad. Then, once you're a citizen and they can't kick you out (you'd lose permanent residency for bankruptcy as it violates your financial solvency agreement) you could declare bankruptcy and the US would take it.

                For an example. Say I, as a US citizen declared bankruptcy here in Quebec. They arrange repayment, so they'd make me repay my US debts. Bankruptcy isn't a great thing here. But the USA would follow the terms of it. Same as getting married here. Bankrupt by law, married by law.

                [–]cmdrkeen2 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                I don't know what to do. I'm seriously thinking I might just keep running for the rest of my life- never go back to America, never contact the bank

                It's not clear how any of that would help in paying off debts.

                [–]johnny_moronic 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                I didn't run, but I defaulted on private and government loans. They are currently garnishing my wages, which max at 25% of pre-tax income. It sucks. $600 a month on payments. I make enough to barely get by. Live-in GF unemployed. Luckily, we almost pay nothing on rent, and my credit is shot, so if we want to move...good luck getting approved at a new place. If I lost my job, we'd be truly fucked. No easy answer. But I'm keeping positive.

                [–]Penstable 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                if you come back, enroll in community college, asap (just one course will do). loans go back into deferrment, except private loans I think. Then apply for income based repayment plan. it's a more reasonable payment. over 25 years, if you can't pay it off by then, the rest is forgiven.

                I defaulted and went back to school and my loans were reinstated (out of collections).

                [–]Lite-brite 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                You're not the only one. I wish all the luck in the world.

                [–]DogQi 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                I too graduated from a UC, so I feel your pain. I went to China after graduating so also understand the draw in the expat life. Be prepared for some "tough love" if you post in personal finance.

                First off, moving to Japan isn't a bad move- lots of people do it. I'd also consider looking into Korea as I hear the pay is actually higher there for English teachers (ie., maybe the equivalent of 40-50k US?). I imagine you should be able to save up a bit of money as a teacher as well there. If you want to make that a longer-term career move, I'd consider getting TEFOL certification. As next steps if you're into the whole abroad thing, you can also consider applying to the Peace Corps which I think also has some form of loan forgiveness built into it.

                Also, please don't make the same mistake I've seen other expats do while in China. That is- they go and teach English...and before they know it, 10-15 years have passed and that's all they've been doing. I've seen guys have emotional breakdowns, crying to me over beers as they've come to this realization that they've wasted the past X number of years without any personal development teaching English. Don't get me wrong, I think being abroad is a great experience, but please be aware of the full implications if you decide to teach English for an extended period of time. Immigration/citizenship in Japan is damn hard, or anywhere in East Asia for that matter, so keep that in mind if you plan on staying away.

                Next, other people have mentioned, but $27,000 isn't that bad, and you're still young. Others have mentioned IBR, and there are also options to push back your first payment date (forgot what it was called). Running away for $27,000 is incredibly stupid and I hope you wouldn't go that route. Others have mentioned something like $300/month, which I imagine you can even be able to pay with your income teaching in Japan.

                Lastly, don't despair. Shit's not working out, but you can still have, and should have goals you're working towards. Would you be happy with a career teaching abroad long term? Some people are, but I feel like many aren't. You still have time to try and pivot into something else (Just don't go to law school). Keep in mind you'll always have teaching English abroad as a fall-back, but other career directions become much harder to pivot into as you get older.

                I personally identify strongly with the "Lost generation" subreddit overall (c/o '08), but I also believe we're not going to see some overthrow of the current monetary system into some form of basic income anytime soon, if at all that people talk about.

                Good luck.

                [–]SubmittedBuy -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                And some people wonder why student loan interest rates are high.

                [–]olseadog 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                Idiot. The loan interest rates are high because they can be. There is no logic when banks are allowed to steal.

                [–]chunes 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                I think you made a good move. There's no reason to come back to this shit hole.

                [–]KingsNobleScientist 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                I just got this email from my dad in America. He's in the process of (trying to) sell his house because he can't keep up with the mortgage payments.

                Is your dad a cosigner on your student loans? If he is, you're fucking him over.

                Just a thought.

                コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                  [–]abc523 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  Personally, I wish everyone would do this. The higher education system needs to collapse.

                  You may want to consult a lawyer. Your debt isn't too extreme. If it was 6 figures it might be more worth it keep not paying. 34000 is manageable especially considering you have a job.

                  For those of you out there yelling at OP to pay, the US govt owes 17 trillion admitted and if you consider promises like social security, up to $100 trillion or more. Why do you still pay taxes when your own government is a deadbeat? Hypothetical question, kind of. If the government doesn't pay its debts, why should OP?

                  [–]Cacciaguida 8 ポイント9 ポイント

                  DO NOT ENTER. COMMENT SECTION IS ACIDIC

                  [–]forzion_no_mouse 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  Isn't there a federal program where if you get paid so much a year your interest is 0? This will never go away and if you ever get a job in America you will get your wage garnished

                  [–]spammalami 9 ポイント10 ポイント

                  I can really sympathize with your denying the reality of your loan. Since I graduated 4 years ago, I have repeatedly said that I have no intention of paying off my loans. I think student loans are predatory and should not be issued to children. I ended up graduating with a degree that I did not want and don't use.

                  But you know what. I still knew my loans were real, and that I'd need to face the music eventually. Now, I have a decent job making 45k or so a year, and have started paying down my loans aggressively. The balance is higher than it was originally because I got deferments each time I was eligible. Default is a potentially ruinous situation financially, and preventing it takes a 30 minute phone call and a fax proving income. I have deferred several times and gotten 3 forbearances i believe, since graduation. It was easy and painless, and kept me out of exactly your situation.

                  A reasonable adult wouldn't get into this mess, which is maybe more evidence of how these lenders are predatory. I struggle with finances, but had parents and others that I am grateful to for scaring me away from default. Good luck OP.

                  [–]andr0medam31 12 ポイント13 ポイント

                  Your parents might be liable for that shit if you don't pay. Check your loan terms.

                  25, even 35, is not impossible. If you make 40 a year, you can live on 15 and put the rest towards the loan. Get that shit paid off. This is your responsibility and your fault. You're exacerbating the problem by acting like a child about it.

                  [–]Leovinus_Jones 6 ポイント7 ポイント

                  Only if they cosigned for it.

                  [–]Zelaphas 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                  Surprised this isn't higher, it doesn't seem like anyone here is asking if his parents Co signed on the loan. If his parents Co signed, then he's basically putting his parents in worse debt than they already are , which is shameful.

                  [–]plentyofrabbits 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  If his parents are getting emails about the debt, then they cosigned. Which makes OP not only an idiot, he's a dick.

                  [–]Lolor-arros 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                  You're exacerbating the problem by acting like a child about it.

                  He was a child at the time he assumed that responsibility.

                  [–]plentyofrabbits -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  Incorrect. OP was, presumably, 18 when he signed for the student loans at the first and in general you sign new ones each year. At 18 you're of legal majority, and you're responsible for your debts, period.

                  [–]Lolor-arros 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  As if the law is anywhere close to perfect...

                  [–]plentyofrabbits 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  I never claimed it was - however, you're still of legal majority at 18, and you're given all the information you need before you sign for the loan. If you're not reading it then that's your problem - and you still owe the money.

                  [–]Lolor-arros 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  "Legal majority" is a made-up concept. Debt isn't a concrete, permanent thing.

                  If you're not reading it then that's your problem - and you still owe the money.

                  Not necessarily.

                  [–]realworldcalling 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  Well this thread has totally been crashed by trolls. Good luck getting any constructive discussion out of what's left.

                  [–]chunes 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  I can't fucking believe the responses in this sub.

                  I am now truly hopeless that anything will ever change. I don't see a fucking shred of resistance in here. It's all "you're an idiot. Take your fucking with a smile like the rest of us did."

                  [–]zagraw7 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  Seriously, what a bunch of pussified people.

                  I'm an American. I live here. I fully intend on resisting as much as possible.

                  I'm not the only one with this sort of ethos either.

                  OP: Do what you must do, and fuck the "moral" majority.

                  [–]tn18947 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                  This thread is being brigaded by right wing bootstrappers

                  [–]Praetoriae 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  The post was heavily brigaded by Shitstatistssay

                  [–]totes_meta_bot 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

                  If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

                  [–]Leovinus_Jones 7 ポイント8 ポイント

                  There are a lot of responses about buckling down and paying this off. For sure thats an option and at face value a logical one.

                  If you want to remain an American citizen/live in the U.S.

                  But what is that worth to you?

                  Things in North America are going to get a lot worse before they get better. You mentioned a parent struggling with a mortgage - such things are the tip of the iceberg.

                  Consider that you may very well be in a good position, relatively speaking. You're employed and in a first world nation. You're 'free' of that debt, so long as you're ok with that meaning you cannot go home until it is resolved one way or the other. You've distanced yourself from the economic implosion that is overtaking the U.S.

                  In a sense, you have good seats to watch the collapse of the same system that would have you be an indentured slave if you returned, now, to the States. Will that collapse destroy the horrifically unbalanced system which is turning an entire generation (and plans to do the same to those which follow) into - literally - economic serfs?

                  Who knows? As I said - its going to get Worse before it even begins to get better. There are worse things than being an ex-pat in another developed nation. Especially where you're guaranteed work in your current profession.

                  Is it optimal? Probably not. Is it better than being a slave? You'll have to decide that.

                  Lastly; it's tough being under the gun of that much debt, whether you're in the nation that's trying to collect it, or not. It's easy to feel like you're some kind of traitor or failure to your society.

                  You're not. You're another young person who was unfortunate enough to exist in a time and place where the government and economic systems of the nation you were born into aligned to basically fleece their young to line the coffers of the older generations.

                  So either way, don't be so hard on yourself. Good luck with everything.

                  [–]ferrarisnowday 4 ポイント5 ポイント

                  I'm sorry, but this is just ridiculous damn advice. It's only 28,000 if he negotiates away the costs and fees, and even if he can't do that it's only 35,000.

                  Can he pay it off tomorrow? No. But it's a damn manageable amount and OP should own up to it and make an attempt to pay it off. Even if Student Loans allowed bankruptcy, this wouldn't be a situation where that would be the advice given.

                  [–]Akamaru 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  Consider that you may very well be in a good position, relatively speaking. You're employed and in a first world nation. You're 'free' of that debt, so long as you're ok with that meaning you cannot go home until it is resolved one way or the other. You've distanced yourself from the economic implosion that is overtaking the U.S.

                  The Japanese are notoriously xenophobic. He'll never be "welcome" in Japan. At best, he'll be able to teach English in varying capacities as long as they allow him to stay in the country. He'll never be able to get a corporate job there as they don't hire foreigners/ non-Japanese. He'll be discriminated against and kept in a box as long as he lives there, that's the reality of the situation.

                  Second of all. Japan's economy is much worse than the USA's They just had a 6.5% economic contraction last quarter. USA had 2% growth (annualized). People are broke in Japan too just like they are in the USA. Japan's economy has been through 2 lost decades since the 1980's and they're working on a 3rd this decade. The USA is where Japan was in the early 1990's after their asset bubble burst spectacularly.

                  You're giving this guy a lot of feel good nonsense without any perspective on the real world. The debt he has is high, but it's not unrealistic to pay off. In fact he could have paid it off easily if he made more than the minimum payments over the past couple years.

                  At some point he'll want to come home to a culture he's familiar with, see his family, move forward with his life. He won't be able to do that very easily if he's in a country that doesn't want him to be there.

                  [–]Leovinus_Jones 6 ポイント7 ポイント

                  My entire comment is predicated on the idea that you and others who have replied are ignoring - that current economic and social trends are in a state of change.

                  Specifically, that the current conditions affecting both the OP and other young people burdened by student loans does not exist in a bubble. But rather is an indication of a growing trend in American society, politics and economics.

                  The whole premise of this subreddit is that this is a generational phenomenon and that it is getting worse, not better. The advice of people saying he should do what we all do - buckle down, live like monks and pay off the debt as soon as possible - is well and good. However, it ignores the greater context not only of OP's situation but how these trends will continue into the future.

                  We are all, in a way, doing as I said - working, sacrificing and paying down debt however possible - with the premise that once we hit that point, everything will 'be ok'. But the reality is that being free of debt is only the beginning. The student loan debt crisis is itself an aspect of a greater economic and social change. One which will bring more difficulties in the near future.

                  It is avoidance of that which I am floating, as devil's advocate, and I only do so because OP's context is that he has already defaulted (so his repayment options are even more limited than most debtors), however he is employed in another western nation (imperfections aside) where is he effectively free of that debt.

                  So it boils down to this, what that change may bring:

                  • Positive change occurs in the economy, which by nature of its massive inclusion, requires national change as to how student loans are treated, amortized, etc. The 'ideal' scenario where politicians pull corporate puppeteering hands out of their asses and make steps towards mitigating or forgiving a debt crisis which is otherwise going to run the nation into the ground.

                  In which case, OP has options and can return home to a brighter future.

                  OR.

                  • Things keep going as they have, in which case, he would have a valid argument for not wanting to come home to a nation which is devolving into a police-state oligarchy. I hate to break it to you, but the U.S. is hardly the ideal place it once aspired to be, and its current course would seem to indicate that things won't be improving.

                  In which case, OP is on the other side of the planet, safe and employed, and can watch the flames from afar.

                  Extreme, to be sure, but OP's position is indeed a tenuous one. I can understand the appeal of home, similar cultures and loved ones, but frankly these are undermined by the overall issues which the U.S. faces and will come to face in coming years.

                  If anything, I'd say OP is somewhat ahead of the game. And for all of those heaping judgement upon him, it's a bit rich given the nature of corporate taxes (and the evasion thereof) undertaken at every level of American society. When this is one young person who chose to go to school (as we all did) to try and better himself, only to find as so many have, that the price for that was indenture and serfdom.

                  Is running away a valid response? Arguable. In a context where all is sunshine and rainbows? No.

                  Take a look at the U.S. over the last 14 years. Now extrapolate that out to the next 14 years. That is the context in which I am commenting on OP's predicament.

                  [–]IAMA_eternal_void 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  Fantastic comment. I'd just substitute "change" in your first paragraph with "imminent catastrophic collapse".

                  [–]Extrospective 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  But OP is NOT safe on the other side of the planet. Y'all are talking about the "American collapse" in vague terms, but do you really think a major collapse of the U.S economy won't be felt everywhere, including Japan?

                  [–]Lite-brite 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  If multi billion dollar companies get to get out paying the US money because it's inconvenient, why not all of us?

                  [–]plentyofrabbits 4 ポイント5 ポイント

                  Seriously, OP?

                  I mean, I understand being overwhelmed by your student loan debt. I have around 50k right now. However, there ARE OTHER OPTIONS than the false dichotomy you've created between not paying and paying what they say you owe each month.

                  For instance, the loans WERE held by the US Department of Education - did you even bother looking into IBR? Because if you had bothered you might've been surprised to realize your payments would have been at or near zero dollars per month.

                  What you did, instead, was run away and refuse to act like an adult, which means you're fucking up your credit pretty seriously (I've done this - it's hell to dig yourself out of), you're acquiring interest and fees which are in all likelihood recapitalizing making your hole deeper exponentially, and NOW the shit is in collections, meaning you will never, ever, ever get to take advantage of the awesome programs the Department of Education offers to graduates. Oh, also in all likelihood you've fucked up your parents' credit ratings, too.

                  Congratulations, you acted like an idiot. I understand being overwhelmed, I really do, but it sounds like you did absolutely nothing to educate yourself on your options, and now you're fucked, and your parents are fucked.

                  I have no sympathy.

                  EDIT: OP, I misread the letter and misunderstood. It looks like Dept of Ed is still holding your loans. This is good news. APPLY FOR IBR RIGHT THIS SECOND. It will lower your payments due, they can never go above 15% of your AGI from the most recently filed tax return, and if you take more than 20 years to pay, the rest of your loans are forgiven (but you have to be paying, and paying on time). Second, LOOK TO SEE IF YOU QUALIFY FOR PUBLIC SERVICE LOAN FORGIVENESS. You can combine this with IBR, but what it does is take the 20 year time down to 10 years and makes it so that the forgiven amount isn't taxable as income. These are the most important things you can do right now and they will help immensely.

                  Then, start paying back your fucking debt like an adult. Yes, student loans can be predatory, but the Department of Education is willing to work with you - work with them back. That's what growing up is about.

                  [–]ferrarisnowday 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  OP. You fucked up, but it's not as bad as you think it is. Look at it as though you took out an extra loan to finance working in Japan for a while. Many of us did just that -- a lot of us studied abroad on student loans. Sure, maybe you didn't get school credits out of it, but you got work experience. It's a very similar situation.

                  The $6,000 in costs and fees is negotiable. You won't have much luck at first, but go to /r/personalfinance and get advice on what to do about that part. When you make payments, specify that it goes towards principle and interest. /r/personalfinance can help you with that too.

                  It sucks that your dad is in trouble, but his financial troubles are not your own. Maybe you can help him out by living with him and paying rent, but maybe not. Only do it if it makes sense. It seems like your parents financial habits have been passed on to you -- stop it now!

                  Hell, you could take care of this from Japan too. You might even get a sympathetic ear if you can let them know you haven't been receiving most of their correspondences, which is likely true. You also can help negotiate the fees by pointing out that you (stupidly) didn't even attempt to put them into deferment or forbearance, so you shouldn't be subject to the fees and costs that would have been avoided if you had done that.

                  Bottom line, OP. It's just $36K (at most), don't beat yourself up over it. Get it sorted out, but don't beat yourself up. $300-$400 a month has it sorted out in 10 years or less. $500-$600 gets it sorted out in half that time. You can do it.

                  [–]JBlitzen 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  OP, it's one thing to be unable to pay.

                  But that letter clearly states that their primacy concern is that you haven't even discussed the issue with them.

                  There are programs you may qualify for for deferring or reducing your debt, but they can't help you if you don't talk to them.

                  Silence won't do you any good here. Contact them ASAP and listen to the posts directing you to /r/personalfinance.

                  Act like a grownup.

                  [–]Anti-Brigade-Bot 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  Public Service Announcement:

                  This thread has been targeted by a possible downvote brigade from /r/Shitstatistssaysubmission linked

                  Their title:

                  • Don't like paying taxes? You're an evil shitlord one-percenter who robs from society and kills babies. Intentionally default on a student loan to the tune of $25K by fleeing the country and neglecting your payments? You're a hero, and we at /r/lostgeneration find your conduct exemplary.

                  Members of /r/Shitstatistssay active in this thread:updated every 5 minutes for 12 hours

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                  [–]Lolor-arros -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  Oh no, a brigade of one person. What ever shall we do?

                  P.S.; The admins don't consider commenting to be brigading.

                  [–]lascalaveras 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  I think whether defaulting on your loans is a mistake depends on what you want.

                  If you want to live and work out of your home country for the rest of however long the default and any associated liability can be held against you (I don't know, maybe forever?) then I suppose that's one way to avoid paying your loans. If you want to live and work in the US, or might in the (near-ish) future, then yeah, defaulting is a mistake.

                  It seems they are asking you to call them and you still have the option to arrange a resolution. If you're thinking about just staying out of the country for the rest of your life anyway, what do you risk by just calling them and seeing what they have to offer? Worse case scenario, it's not something acceptable to you, and you're not in a worse position than you are now.

                  If you owe some $30k, over a ten-year payment plan, isn't that something like $150 a month? I don't know, but that doesn't seem impossible to pay. Why limit your life options to avoid a problem that you can fix? Fleeing the country for that amount of debt just seems like an overreaction to me.

                  [–]lascalaveras 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  Oh wait, am I just really bad at math? I think I got that monthly estimate wrong. By a lot. Sorry!

                  [–]sailornasheed -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

                  So let me get this straight, you STOLE $25,000 from your fellow citizens, used your theft to jump-start a reasonably lucrative career, that offers plenty of opportunity to travel and have fun, and now you want us to give you advice on how to avoid dealing with the consequences of your grand larceny? Maybe you should have thought about this before you decided to screw us all over.

                  I wanted to go to college, but I realized that I wouldn't be able to do it debt free, so I joined the military, and managed to pick up a life-shortening injury for my trouble. Meanwhile, you decided to steal from your home country, and all of its citizens.

                  Don't come back to the US. You robbed every single one of us.

                  [–]commentguy123 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  Defaulting on a loan is not larceny since there was no theft of personal proprety. Nor is defaulting robbery since there is no force or threat.

                  [–]swiddie 8 ポイント9 ポイント

                  You may have cost this nation more as a soldier.

                  [–]sailornasheed 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  You think I wanted to get injured? Blame the elected leadership.

                  [–]swiddie 5 ポイント6 ポイント

                  I meant in how the flow of willing us citizens feed into a system that makes bad use of military force abroad.

                  [–]realworldcalling 10 ポイント11 ポイント

                  Lol. Yes, his 25 grand is a huge burden to the taxpayer unlike trillions spent and outright lost in Iraq and Afghanistan or on bailouts for auto companies. I'd rather a single student get bailed out to the tune of 25 grand than give another 255 million to Israel.

                  [–]ferrarisnowday -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  Pointing away from one bad thing to an even worse thing doesn't make the first thing not bad anymore.

                  [–]sailornasheed -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

                  Vote for the greens, than. I would have liked to go to school for free, but that's not reality in the US. You have to earn it, not steal it. If you live in the US, it's your money too. Did you steal your way through college, or are you stuck paying your loan?

                  [–]Bab5crusade 4 ポイント5 ポイント

                  Stole? When did education became a privilege?

                  [–]Horaenaut 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  Well, throughout history education has usually been a privilege. It is only recently when it has basically become a necessity that we look on it as a right.

                  [–]sailornasheed -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  Yes, stole. It would be great if the US had a "free college" program, but they don't, and running a confidence scam is not a solution, it's a crime.

                  If you want change, vote 3rd party. Don't steal from your fellow citizens.

                  [–]SeekingAlpha -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  Obtaining a college education is neither a right nor a privilege.

                  Debt financing a college education is a decision that one makes, ideally having weighed the costs and benefits (I know...too much to ask of a 17-18 year old, right!?), and, as a recognized adult, shoulders all the inherent responsibilities and burdens.

                  [–]Bab5crusade 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  If it isn't. It should be a god damn right. Having food, shelter, and a good education is a basic need for everyone. Right now our system makes those three a privilege.

                  [–]zagraw7 4 ポイント5 ポイント

                  LOL, playing the military card... No one cares that you "made the ultimate sacrifice" (the typical line used) for your country.

                  You signed on the dotted line. Just remember that.

                  Your military superiors have been robbing innocent people of their lives recently. Ever considered that view?

                  [–]sailornasheed 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  You signed on the dotted line. Just remember that.

                  So did he.

                  [–]chunes 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  The difference being that going to college is something that is pressured into you from every authority figure since the time you can understand words. Especially parents. Taking on loans is practically not a choice for young people today.

                  Enlisting in the military is entirely a choice.

                  [–]Eudaimonics 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  He stole $0.0008 from me to get an education.

                  I'm not too angry.

                  [–]Tautologicus 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  Well they gave him 25,000 and they thought they might get it back later. No one stole anything. Whether they get it back later or not depends on whether the person feels obligated or compelled to. Reneging debt is not stealing. It was given in the first place, just with stipulations.

                  (I'm not a student debt defaulter, I'm just making a point.)

                  [–]chunes 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                  Pssst. There is no reason for you to be in this sub. You would feel more comfortable in /r/conservative.

                  [–]GaiaWasAFeminist -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  This sub has been taken over by idiot middle-class kids fresh out of liberal indoctrination camps.

                  [–]chunes 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                  I agree it's been taken over by middle-class morons, but unfortunately of the sort who got lucky and landed a good-paying job and think there's nothing wrong.

                  [–]leo_not_a_lion -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  First off, and this is only my opinion, but I think you're bone dead stupid for running. Any creditor can nail you to the wall once you step foot through customs, but have you thought about what the federal government is capable of doing?

                  Second, student loans are a bitch, in that they don't always just concern you. If you can't\don't pay them back, there isn't a whole lot that can keep them from getting into your family's business and harassing them on your behalf.

                  [–]whatsazipper -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  Pretty benign as far as debt situations go. If you're not in poor health or otherwise hindered, then look for work. Minimize your costs and aggressively pay down the debt.

                  [–]Nawara_Ven -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  I saved up $18 000 in two years while teaching at GEOS without trying particularly hard to do so. You can pay off $27 000 in like 3-4 years. This is not the end of your life.

                  [–]1ststatestereo -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                  What was the point of going to college if you were only going to run from a problem? Aren't you supposed to grow up during college?

                  [–]gatsby365 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                  If all you do is go to class, it's just High School 2.

                  [–]Alpheus411 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  Kevin Inches...you should write them asking how many inches Kevin Inches is packing. Is his middle name a number, like Kevin 12 Inches.

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