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A girl is playing for Team getouts in KDL Season 3 (self.DotA2)

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[–]Lockeid 7 ポイント8 ポイント

This is the first time I have seen a girl play with males in a professional e-sports environment

There's Scarlett for Team Acer in SC2, and she's pretty damn good at it.

[–]PENTAGRAM!Peimun[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント

I probably should of specified dota related e-sports enviroment, though this actually is the first time seeing this for me because I don't follow SC2.

[–]teapoted 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Scarlett is also not a girl biologically.

And also not playing on a team in the same sense.

[–]Talesavo 4 ポイント5 ポイント

She's also biologically a man.

[–]Theokak -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Isn't scarlett actually a man, so she isn't a real woman.

[–]Lockeid 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Being a transgendered woman doesn't make you a real woman ?

[–]zuraken 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Physically no.

[–]Theokak 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Biologically no.

[–]Lockeid -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Biologically no, but she's still considered a woman by everyone in the scene.

[–]WeComeToDub -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Because the scene is fucking irrelevant, try pulling that off in real sports and see what happens v0v

[–]Lockeid -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Can we stop comparing things when the comparison doesn't hold at all.

You guys are trying so hard to make esports on the same level than sports instead of letting it be its own thing.

[–]ULTRA EPIC VALVE ADD THIS PLEASE AND GIVE ME ONEMakorus -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

Yeah but Scarlett isn't female.

[–]Lockeid 7 ポイント8 ポイント

She is, just because she's a transgender doesn't mean she isn't a women now.

[–]zuraken 8 ポイント9 ポイント

I doubt a transgendered male is allowed to participate in their "new gendered" female competitions in any real life sports, ESPECIALLY Olympics, they check thoroughly for actual gender.

[–]Lockeid 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Manon Rhéaume played in ECHL and exibition matches in the NHL.
Most of the times women don't participate with men because they don't have the same physical force, but they aren't prevented from playing with men in several leagues (including the NHL).

And I don't know why we would want to bring gender separation, which makes sense in sports, to esports. The comparison doesn't hold at all.

[–]zuraken 1 ポイント2 ポイント

sorry I meant male to female, edited my post

[–]YE WANT SUMMA THIS SONfifty_cents 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Just so you know, "transgendered male" means female to male. You would say whichever they identify as, so Scarlett is a transgendered woman. (Kind of tripped me up for a while because I would've expected it to be like "originally was male, is now transgendered male" but yeah)

[–]YE WANT SUMMA THIS SONfifty_cents 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Her "actual gender" is female. She was male at birth, transitioned to female, and now she's female. Her biological sex may or may not be different from birth (nobody's business but hers) but her gender is female.

[–]shalom_boy [非表示スコア]

rofl. I suggest you look up what sex chromosomes are. No matter if he cuts up those hangers and that dick, he will remain a man. No matter how much makeup he wears, still a man. No matter how much he wears girl panties, still a man. If you want to cross dress because it helps you deal with shit or gets you off sexually, idgaf. Stop forcing normal people to play this stupid fucking game of yours, pretending that you are female. You really aren't and no amount of pill popping is ever going to change the XY reality underneath it all. Modern society is so fucked up it's crazy. Deny reality at every possible point in favor of feel good fantasy.

[–]Lockeid [非表示スコア]

Sex is about chromosomes, gender not necessarily.
I suggest you educate yourself and learn what gender identity is, because it's been widely accepted by psychology whether or not you accept it.

[–]teapoted -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

According to competitive sports, yes it does.

[–]Lockeid 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Not at all. Nobody in the competitive scene considers Scarlett to be a man.

[–]teapoted 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Do you understand English?

Scarlett may be considered a Woman socially. She is however not a woman in the eyes of competitive sports. If she were to try and compete in the Olympics, she wouldn't be allowed to compete with women.

So associating her accomplishments with that of women would not fly anywhere. You can associate them with transgenders, or her personally, or even men for that matter, but not women.

If anything it should be seen as disrespectful towards women that a biological male is put in the same boat in terms of competitive achievements. As in competition, physical or not, gender (or sex if you want to be pedantic) has proven to make an enormous difference.

[–]Lockeid 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I do understand english, and I do also understand that sports and esports aren't the same. So stop trying to compare SC2 with the Olympics.
I don't see at all why what she does cannot be associated with women. Because she's a trangender we can associate her achievements with those of women. Associating it with men would make no sense.

Look at every SC2 caster or player and they consider Scarlett to be a woman so they associate her achievements with that a of a woman, not of a man.

[–]teapoted 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Men have been proven to outperform women in some competitive sports which aren't greatly physical (eSports is also a physical activity, reaction times are not equal between sexes) for decades. Such as snooker, chess, racing, etc... And there may be examples of the reverse.

The physicality of the activity isn't the entire driving factor of the difference of performance between men and women. Testosterone levels alone account for increased performance in competitive games, physical or not.

I'm not saying men and women should be seperate in all esports because of this, but simply that the accomplishments of a woman and a transgender are not the same thing simply because they consider themselves to be of a different gender than their biology.

I don't care what every SC2 player or caster says, they're trying to be respectful. I'm being realistic. And if Dendi decided to say he's transgender (which is the extent of what he would have to do to be considered transgender), then he wouldn't be the greatest female Dota player.

The fact that Scarlet is the best female SC2 player by a very wide margin is if anything proof of this.

[–]YE WANT SUMMA THIS SONfifty_cents 0 ポイント1 ポイント

What is supposed to be the point of making this distinction? Why does there even have to be female esports vs male esports? What does that accomplish?

[–]teapoted 0 ポイント1 ポイント

If there needs to be is a completely separate question and different games/sports have answered it in different ways. Some don't have separations, some do, some allow women to compete in men's leagues but don't allow the reverse.

And what's the point of making the distinction? Well it's a matter of just being truthful. If someone here was saying that someone in Korea is really good and that shows that the scene has progressed, it would be misleading if that person had played in American tournaments for years.

So Scarlett being brought up here as an example of a woman succeeding in eSports competing against men, is in my opinion, misleading.

And I think if gender really was irrelevant (or at least the distinction of female and transgender), Scarlett wouldn't be the biggest example of a successful woman in eSports. Especially considering how miniscule the transgender playerbase is even compared to that of women.

[–]Lockeid -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Racing is highly physical, unless you're talking of horse racing.
Snooker, chess and racing are mostly played by men. So of course they do outperform them in numbers, so the results aren't the same.
Now that women are seen more equally because of the social progress you see a lot more results coming from them.

Let's take the example of chess, if you look at the great chess players, a huge part of those players are from Eastern Europe, which is not know for being the first in social progress during the 20th century. So of course the results have been biased, but you now see some women at the top and among the very best (Judit Polgár).

Most esports are decision-based games, testosterone has nothing to do with it. So far the only effects testosterone has been found to have in the brain is related to visuo-spatial abilities and mood/depression. I don't think testosterone has an effect on the visuo-spatial abilities up to having a difference between men and women.

[–]KOTL OF THE LIGHTgu3st12 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Ignorant fuck.

[–]Click on Flair and press AI_Hate_Reddit -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

play with males

Scarlett plays solo, one of the biggest gripes for females on esports is that when playing in a team one or more people will inevitably "fall in love" with them and cause all cause of problems between the team and just general discomfort in the workplace for the female itself.

Mind you this kind of thing also happens in other areas of work where gender ratios are heavily skewed, as anyone who works on HR can tell you.