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Ray Rice Press Conference (7/31/14) -- Thoughts? (self.nfl)

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[–]EaglesimeanYOLOright 42 ポイント43 ポイント

"She can do no wrong. She's an angel."

I know in the aftermath, this is obviously the politically correct statement to say. But, honestly, this mindset is almost as horribly flawed as the reverse. Everyone is fallible.

Like Whoopi Goldberg had said - regardless of gender - you shouldn't hit ANYONE. A man shouldn't hit a woman. A woman shouldn't hit a man. A man shouldn't hit a man. A woman shouldn't hit a woman.

Furthermore, if you do decide to hit ANYONE, you should be expecting and accepting the retaliation.

In this case, we don't really know what instigated the matter. All we have is a video of the aftermath. The NFL likely knows more than the general public. There has to be a reasoning behind the seemingly lenient suspension of only 2 games.

[–]Ravenshardcorr 5 ポイント6 ポイント

The retaliation can be completely disproportionate and unacceptable though. We should not just accept anything that happens to someone who initiates violence.

[–]Buccaneers1gunners4 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Reddit is weird; it loves the term "Equal rights, equal lefts" and circlejerks to that tune like none other, but also loves pointing out how physically superior the average man is to the average woman, even making up fake stories about how "X women's National Team lost to my high school men's team!" In fact, reddit, specifically /r/NFL, has already decided that's there's no chance that we'll ever see a non-kicker woman in the NFL. If you recognize that disparity, how the fuck can you think it's OK to hit someone that you are so physically "superior" to?

[–]Ravens410LaxMD -1 ポイント0 ポイント

The same reason why those same women see the men as superior phsyically but still start fist-fights with those men. You're forgetting there's another person in the whole situation making an initial mistake. Two wrongs don't make a left but it sure doesn't make one more wrong than the other.

[–]Seahawkscbosh04 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

There isn't any hypocrisy there. If a 5'4 110 pound dude takes a swing at a 6'2 215 pound man then he deserves to get his ass beat. I don't agree with the equal rights, equal lefts thing though.

[–]Billscuteintern 13 ポイント14 ポイント

excepting

expecting - but I got your point. I wouldn't correct you except that the word you used totally disagreed with your intent.

And I want to add on to what Whoopi said - If you start a fight don't act surprised if someone else ends it.

[–]Ravenshardcorr 8 ポイント9 ポイント

That someone else can still be completely in the wrong though. If I punch someone once, do I deserve to be shot? If a child hits an adult, does he deserve to be beat? Is disproportionate violence really an acceptable answer to violence?

[–]Billscuteintern 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Is disproportionate violence really an acceptable answer to violence?

Maybe, maybe not.

If I punch someone once, do I deserve to be shot?

I'm talking about fistfights, but hey, if we're going to go Full Strawman let's bring up Travon Martin and George Zimmerman. Or not, whatever. I'm talking about generic fistfights. And Ray Rice's fiancee, who got apparently knocked unconscious by Ray's punch.

I hate that saying "There's no reason...." Obviously, I'm not saying to hit a woman, you know. But saying there's no reason - I think that's crazy. When you say there's no reason, that kills any sort of examination as to how two people ended up at that place. If you say there's no reason you cut out the build up, you're just left with the act. How you gonna solve it if you don't figure it out?

Don't think for one second I'm victim-blaming - I'm not. Burr then relates a few funny anecdotes where he might have been mad enough to want to hit his girlfriend, but he still manages not to hit her. Maybe Ray Rice needs relationship advice from Bill Burr.

Burr gives a great football analogy (something Rice can probably understand) on what to do when the "crazy shit" comes out in an argument: take a knee and run out the clock.

I'd love to have been a fly on the wall at that bar and know what Ray and his fiancee were arguing about. Might give some context. Maybe they're just a couple of assholes who deserve each other. Maybe not. I think we'll never know.

[–]Ravens410LaxMD -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Strawman fallacy my friend. We aren't talking about guns or children we're talking about two grown adults. The scenario in speculation is that Ray's wife hit him first and he hit her back. She knows how strong he is, why start a fight with him when he can surely finish it? That's the first stupid mistake of the first ordeal, his is no worse than hers. Same reason you and I shouldn't go hunting for people to fight at a UFC meet & greet.

[–]EaglesimeanYOLOright 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Thanks for the heads up! I fixed it now.

[–]BrownsWHM-6R 7 ポイント8 ポイント

A 2 game suspension allows the league to downplay the incident and push the they were both at fault, but are courageously working together to move forward angle, which is good for everyone's image.

[–]Ravensoutphase84 0 ポイント1 ポイント

A 2 game suspension is the third longest domestic violence suspension the league has ever levied.

It's not about downplaying the incident. This is a heavy suspension in the NFL for domestic violence.

[–]BearsFratDaddy69 6 ポイント7 ポイント

/u/imeanYOLOright has been suspended from ESPN.

[–]Ravensabsolut696 7 ポイント8 ポイント

This is so hilarious and ironic that you are getting upvoted for this. If you had partly attributed what happened to her when the 2 day suspension was brought down on Ray, you would have been downvoted to oblivion. /r/nfl is circlejerk central.

Not to say I don't agree with you, however.

[–]PackersCelebornX -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

I don't agree. The reason for the small suspension is to brush the whole thing under the rug. And it's working really well now. Ray Rice says his wife is an angel who can do no wrong. Awwwww, how sweet. Maybe he ain't such a bad guy!

I do agree with Reddit being a fucking circlejerk, though. This website constantly has a video of some woman getting punched on the frontpage and a circlejerk of 20 year olds clamoring about how it's not ok to hit anyone man or woman, and how if you hit someone you should expect to get hit back.

Yeah we fucking get it. But so many people around here are a little too gleefully obsessed watching women "get what they deserve."

[–]Ravensoutphase84 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Careful there, ESPN might suspend you for a week.

[–]Ravenscoconutbeard 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Furthermore, if you do decide to hit ANYONE, you should be expecting and accepting the retaliation.

I disagree with you there. If someone hits you, the answer is to walk away. If he had left his fiancee and called the police, he wouldn't be in trouble.

[–]Seahawksbatchslip 13 ポイント14 ポイント

The way I read it is that an instigator of violence should be prepared to deal with any and all sort of retaliation given his/her willingness to provoke.

[–]CowboysAikidi -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

That's not really how that shit works though. If you shove a dude and he knocks you out cold, how is that appropriate retribution?

[–]Seahawksbatchslip 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Obviously it's not commensurate retribution but if you're shoving that dude in the first place are you just expecting him to walk away with no issue? It's not really about what's right, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that violent action begets violent action.

[–]CowboysAikidi -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

Yeah but the other person initiating doesn't absolve you of any personal responsibility in a conflict.

[–]RedskinsBlakeClass 6 ポイント7 ポイント

doesn't absolve you of any personal responsibility in a conflict.

Hence why he was suspended by the NFL.

[–]CowboysAikidi -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Right, which is why the "Ray Rice did nothing wrong" arguers seem out of place.

[–]49ersCavemansol 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I've literally never seen anyone, here or another website, say that he did nothing wrong...

[–]Ravens410LaxMD 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Watch it now, you're messing this guys personal circlejerk up! Don't break the chain!

[–]CowboysAikidi -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

People in this thread are arguing that he acted in justified self defense...it's a really common stance

[–]Ravensbradnakata 1 ポイント2 ポイント

what if you shoved him into poop?

[–]Ravens410LaxMD 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The fuck are you doing shoving random people for? I think if you're a physical dickhead to random people, yes, you deserve to be knocked out at some point in your life. Because clearly you are getting away with some shit.

[–]Ravensc6d 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Where exactly is away when you're in an elevator?

I'm not not trying to justify it, but walking away isn't always an immediate option, given a confined space.

[–]Ravens410LaxMD 0 ポイント1 ポイント

There are various reasons why to swing back.

  • Lack of help from authorities (in men's cases this reigns true a lot)
  • No chance to get a hold of police (enclosed environment like an elevator)
  • Fight or flight instincts (let's not act like we all don't have this type of raw instinct or anything)
  • Raw emotion (people make mistakes and if the first mistake is done upon you raw emotion can make people retaliate in various ways, Ray didn't have months to sit down and think about what would transpire, he had seconds)

Point is, walking away isn't always an option. No matter if it's a man or woman. If anyone hits me in the face/balls I'm probably swinging without looking or thinking. I think a lot of people are realizing that is how they react in situations like that and Ray will begin to be understood.

[–]Patriotsgryts -1 ポイント0 ポイント

And I disagree with you there. I think it's up to everyone to de-escalate a fight in the best way possible. Sometimes that's walking away, but sometimes that's not enough.

[–]Ravens410LaxMD 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Bingo. Goodell and the DA know a lot more than us and the DA dropped the charges and Goodell gave just a 2 game suspension with a 3rd game paycheck being docked. I'm positive if it was as clear-cut as everyone likes to sit back and believe he would've gotten a stricter penalty and the charges wouldn't have gotten dropped. And his wife probably wouldn't have forgiven him.

[–]Rawtashk 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I read a few days ago (and can't for the life of me re-find the page) that her testimony (part of the reason the NFL only suspended him 2 games) was her saying that he hit her, but that she was drunk (as was he) and ended up falling and hitting her head on the hand railing in the elevator, which is what knocked her out. It's not like he punched her 18 times in the head until she passed out. People forget that she was also arrested and charged with the exact same thing that he was.

I'm NOT SAYING he should have hit her. I'm saying that she is FAR from blameless in the situation.

[–]Ravensoutphase84 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I postulated that very thing when the whole thing happened, and I was blasted into oblivion for it.

Hell, a week ago, someone tried to argue with me that only punches knock people out, not hitting your hit on a hard surface.

[–]VikingsMcRawffles 1 ポイント2 ポイント

The in-elevator video was also shown in public court, though. A few sources (none extremely reliable/noteworthy) who saw it said it showed Janay clearly instigating the fight and Ray responding.

Also, the official police report noted that Ray had some injuries/was bleeding and that both were a part of the fight.