Are there emotional no-go areas where logic dare not show its face?

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by Richard Dawkins

 

Are there kingdoms of emotion where logic is taboo, dare not show its face, zones where reason is too intimidated to speak?

Moral philosophers make full use of the technique of thought experiment. In a hospital there are four dying men. Each could be saved by a transplant of a different organ, but no donors are available. In the hospital waiting room is a healthy man who, if we killed him, could provide the requisite organ to each dying patient, thereby saving four lives for the price of one. Is it morally right to kill the healthy man and harvest his organs?

Everyone says no, but the moral philosopher wants to discuss the question further. Why is it wrong? Is it because of Kant’s Principle: “Act in such a way that you treat humanity, whether in your own person or in the person of any other, never merely as a means to an end, but always at the same time as an end.” How do we justify Kant’s principle? Are there ever exceptions? Could we imagine a hypothetical scenario in which . . .

What if the dying men were Beethoven, Shakespeare, Einstein and Martin Luther King? Would it be then right to sacrifice a man who is homeless and friendless, dragged in from a ditch? And so on.

Two miners are trapped underground by an explosion. They could be saved, but it would cost a million dollars. That million could be spent on saving the lives of thousands of starving people. Could it ever be morally right to abandon the miners to their fate and spend the money on saving the thousands? Most of us would say no. Would you? Or do you think it is wrong even to raise such questions?

These dilemmas are uncomfortable. It is the business of moral philosophers to face up to the discomfort and teach their students to do the same. A friend, a professor of moral philosophy, told me he received hate-mail when he raised the hypothetical case of the miners. He also told me there are certain thought experiments that divide his students down the middle. Some students are capable of temporarily accepting a noxious hypothetical, to explore where it might lead. Others are so blinded by emotion that they cannot even contemplate the hypothetical. They simply stop up their ears and refuse to join the discussion.

“We all agree it isn’t true that some human races are genetically superior to others in intelligence. But let’s for a moment suspend disbelief and consider the consequences if it were true. Would it ever be right to discriminate in job hiring? Etcetera.” My friend sometimes poses this very question, and he tells me that about half the students are willing to entertain the hypothetical counterfactual and rationally discuss the consequences. The other half respond emotionally to the hypothetical, are too revolted to proceed and simply opt out of the conversation.

Could eugenics ever be justified? Could torture? A clock triggering a gigantic nuclear weapon hidden in a suitcase is ticking. A spy has been captured who knows where it is and how to disable it, but he refuses to speak. Is it morally right to torture him, or even his innocent children, to make him reveal the secret? What if the weapon were a doomsday machine that would blow up the whole world?

There are those whose love of reason allows them to enter such disagreeable hypothetical worlds and see where the discussion might lead. And there are those whose emotions prevent them from going anywhere near the conversation. Some of these will vilify and hurl vicious insults at anybody who is prepared to discuss such matters. Some will pursue active witch-hunts against moral philosophers for daring to consider obnoxious hypothetical thought experiments.

“A woman has an absolute right to do what she wants with her own body and that includes any foetus that it might contain. I don’t care if the foetus is fully conscious and writing poetry in the womb, the woman still has the right to abort it because it is her body and her choice.” Do we discuss the hypothetical intra-uterine poet, or does emotion simply close down the discussion, in either direction? Do we think the woman’s right is absolute, absolute, absolute – end of? Or do we think abortion is wrong, wrong, wrong; abortion is murder, no further discussion.?

“We agree that cannibalism is wrong. But if we don’t need to kill someone in order to eat them, can we discuss why it would be wrong? Why don’t we eat human road-kills? Yes, it would be horrible for the friends and relatives of the dead person, but suppose we hypothetically know that this person has no friends or relatives of any kind, why wouldn’t we eat him? Or is there a slippery slope that we should consider?” Do we proceed to discuss such questions rationally and logically with the professor of moral philosophy? Or do we throw an emotional fit and run screaming from the room?

I believe that, as non-religious rationalists, we should be prepared to discuss such questions using logic and reason. We shouldn’t compel people to enter into painful hypothetical discussions, but nor should we conduct witch-hunts against people who are prepared to do so. I fear that some of us may be erecting taboo zones, where emotion is king and where reason is not admitted; where reason, in some cases, is actively intimidated and dare not show its face. And I regret this. We get enough of that from the religious faithful. Wouldn’t it be a pity if we became seduced by a different sort of sacred, the sacred of the emotional taboo zone?

Moving from the hypothetical to the real, if you raise the question of female genital mutilation, you can guarantee that about half the responses you get will be of the form “What about male circumcision?” and this often seems calculated to derail the campaign against FGM and take the steam out of it. If you try and say “Yes yes, male infant circumcision may be bad but FGM is worse”, you will be stopped in your tracks. Both are violations of a defenceless child, you cannot discuss whether one is worse than the other. How dare you even think about ranking them?

When a show-business personality is convicted of pedophilia, is it right that you actually need courage to say something like this: “Did he penetratively rape children or did he just touch them with his hands? The latter is bad but I think the former is worse”? How dare you rank different kinds of pedophilia? They are all equally bad, equally terrible. What are you, some kind of closet pedophile yourself?

I have met the following reaction when discussing the vexed and terrible question of Israel/Palestine. Israeli friends have said to me things like, “We needed a Jewish state because, after the Holocaust, we realised that nobody else was going to look after us, we’d have to look after ourselves. Jews have been downtrodden for too long. From now on, we Jews are going to stand tall and take care of ourselves.” To which, on one occasion, I replied, “Yes, of course I sympathise with that, but can you explain why Palestinian Arabs should be the ones to pay for Hitler’s crimes? Why Palestine? You surely aren’t going to stoop to some kind of biblical justification for picking on that land rather than, say, Bavaria or Madagascar?” My friend earnestly said, “Richard, I think we had better just terminate this conversation.” I had blundered into another taboo zone, a sacred emotional sanctuary where discussion is forbidden. The emotions aroused by the Holocaust are so painful that we are not allowed even to discuss such questions. A friend will terminate the conversation rather than allow entry to the sanctuary of hurt emotion.

On Twitter during the current horrible events in Gaza, I wrote the following:
“The extent of the destruction in Gaza is obscene. Poor people. Poor people who have lost their homes, their relatives, everything.” I was immediately bitterly attacked by friends of Israel. But then I quoted Sam Harris to the effect that “Hamas publicly says they’d like to kill every Jew in the world” and I went on to raise Sam’s hypothetical question: What does that say about Hamas’s probable actions if positions were reversed and they had Israel’s military strength? Sam’s suggestion that this contrast might actually be demonstrating restraint on Israel’s part, unleashed a storm of furious accusations that he, and I, relished the bombing of Gaza’s children.

I also quoted Sam as saying “I don’t think Israel should exist as a Jewish state.” So of course I, and Sam, got vituperative brickbats from Israel and from American Jewish interests. I summed up my position on the fence (linking to an interview with Christopher Hitchens) as follows: “It is reasonable to deplore both the original founding of the Jewish State of Israel & aspirations now to destroy it.” But I swiftly learned that emotion can be so powerful that reasonable discussion – looking at both sides of the question dispassionately – becomes impossible.

Apparently I didn’t learn swiftly enough – and I now turn to the other Twitter controversy in which I have been involved this week.

‘“Being raped by a stranger is bad. Being raped by a formerly trusted friend is worse.” If you think that hypothetical quotation is an endorsement of rape by strangers, go away and learn how to think.’

That was one way I put the hypothetical. It seemed to me entirely reasonable that the loss of trust, the disillusionment that a woman might feel if raped by a man whom she had thought to be a friend, might be even more horrible than violation by a stranger. I had previously put the opposite hypothetical, but drew an equivalent logical conclusion:

“Date rape is bad. Stranger rape at knifepoint is worse. If you think that’s an endorsement of date rape, go away and learn how to think.”

These two opposite hypothetical statements were both versions of the general case, which I also tweeted:

“X is bad. Y is worse. If you think that’s an endorsement of X, go away and don’t come back until you’ve learned how to think properly.”

The point was a purely logical one: to judge something bad and something else very bad is not an endorsement of the lesser of two evils. Both are bad. I wasn’t making a point about which of the two was worse. I was merely asserting that to express an opinion one way or the other is not tantamount to approving the lesser evil.

Some people angrily failed to understand that it was a point of logic using a hypothetical quotation about rape. They thought it was an active judgment about which kind of rape was worse than which. Other people got the point of logic but attacked me, equally furiously, for choosing the emotionally loaded example of rape to illustrate it. To quote one blogger, prominent in the atheist movement, ‘What would have been wrong with, “Slapping someone’s face is bad, breaking their nose is worse”? Why need to use rape?’

Yes, I could have used the broken nose example. I accept that I must explain why I chose to use the particular example of rape. I was emphatically not trying to hurt rape victims or trivialise their awful experience. They get enough of that already from the “She was wearing a short skirt, I bet she was really begging for it Hur Hur Hur” brigade. So why did I choose rape as my unpleasant hypothetical (in both directions) rather than the “breaking someone’s nose” example? Here’s why.

I hope I have said enough above to justify my belief that rationalists like us should be free to follow moral philosophic questions without emotion swooping in to cut off all discussion, however hypothetical. I’ve listed cannibalism, trapped miners, transplant donors, aborted poets, circumcision, Israel and Palestine, all examples of no-go zones, taboo areas where reason may fear to tread because emotion is king. Broken noses are not in that taboo zone. Rape is. So is pedophilia. They should not be, in my opinion. Nor should anything else.

I didn’t know quite how deeply those two sensitive issues had infiltrated the taboo zone. I know now, with a vengeance. I really do care passionately about reason and logic. I think dispassionate logic and reason should not be banned from entering into discussion of cannibalism or trapped miners. And I was distressed to see that rape and pedophilia were also becoming taboo zones; no-go areas, off limits to reason and logic.

“Rape is rape is rape.” You cannot discuss whether one kind of rape (say by a ‘friend”) is worse than another kind of rape (say by a stranger). Rape is rape and you are not allowed even to contemplate the question of whether some rape is bad but other rape is worse. I don’t want to listen to this horrible discussion. The very idea of classifying some rapes as worse than others, whether it’s date rape or stranger rape, is unconscionable, unbearable, intolerable, beyond the pale, taboo. There is no allowable distinction between one kind of rape and another.

If that were really right, judges shouldn’t be allowed to impose harsher sentences for some rapes than for others. Do we really want our courts to impose a single mandatory sentence – a life sentence, perhaps – for all rapes regardless? To all rapes, from getting a woman drunk and taking advantage at one end of the spectrum, to holding a knife to her throat in a dark alley at the other? Do we really want our judges to ignore such distinctions when they pass sentence? I don’t, and I don’t think any reasonable person would if they thought it through. And yet that would seem to be the message of the agonisingly passionate tweets that I have been reading. The message seems to be, no, there is no spectrum, you are wicked, evil, a monster, to even ask whether there might be a spectrum.

I don’t think rationalists and sceptics should have taboo zones into which our reason, our logic, must not trespass. Hypothetical cannibalism of human road kills should be up for discussion (and rejection in my opinion – but let’s discuss it). Same for eugenics. Same for circumcision and FGM. And the question of whether there is a spectrum of rapes, from bad to worse to very very much worse, should also be up for discussion, no less than the spectrum from a slap in the face to a broken nose.

There would have been no point in my using the broken nose example to illustrate my logic, because nobody would ever accuse us of endorsing face-slapping when we say, “Broken nose is worse than slap in face”. The point is trivially obvious, as it is with the symbolic case of “X is worse than Y”. But I knew that not everybody would think it obvious in the special cases of rape and pedophilia, and that was precisely why I raised them for discussion. I didn’t care whether we chose to say date rape was worse than dark alley stranger rape, or vice versa. Nor was I unaware that it is a sensitive issue, as is pedophilia. I deliberately wanted to challenge the taboo against rational discussion of sensitive issues.

That, then, is why I chose rape and pedophilia for my hypothetical examples. I think rationalists should be free to discuss spectrums of nastiness, even if only to reject them. I had noticed indications that rape and pedophilia had moved out of the discussion zone into a no-go taboo area. I wanted to challenge the taboo, just as I want to challenge all taboos against free discussion.

Nothing should be off limits to discussion. No, let me amend that. If you think some things should be off limits, let’s sit down together and discuss that proposition itself. Let’s not just insult each other and cut off all discussion because we rationalists have somehow wandered into a land where emotion is king.

It is utterly deplorable that there are people, including in our atheist community, who suffer rape threats because of things they have said. And it is also deplorable that there are many people in the same atheist community who are literally afraid to think and speak freely, afraid to raise even hypothetical questions such as those I have mentioned in this article. They are afraid – and I promise you I am not exaggerating – of witch-hunts: hunts for latter day blasphemers by latter day Inquisitions and latter day incarnations of Orwell’s Thought Police.

16 COMMENTS

  1. Why is human life worth more than other life forms? If one sees a human brutalizing an animal such as a dog or horse, is it not tempting to do all possible to stop that act? Humans are in biological plague phase, having triples in number in my 69 years, and risen around 700% in two centuries. Many species have been driven to extinction due to our activities. Rarity is one measure of value; we have gone in the opposite direction of biodiversity, and toxified our nest in the process. A sci-fi dream is that a sterility virus emerges which is effective only on the superstitious among us. Perhaps rational planning might then kick in and reverse our race towards a crash and die-off scenario.

  2. Hi Richard,
    You might avoid some of the criticism over the idea of a spectrum of harm if you were to explicitly add that it is for the victims of rape or paedophilia to say how bad it was for them, rather than for third parties to make presumptions about it. People are different, and, when it comes to sexual abuse, someone might suffer great and lasting harm from an eposide that a third party might mistakenly regard as “mild”.

    That, of course, does not negate your central point here. But it is part of why discussing the “spectrum of harm” of sexual abuse can be controversial.

  3. Thank you for writing this. Besides the verboten areas of rape and child molestation, you forgot to list the third prong on the fork of taboo subjects: male on female domestic violence. Today the Twitterverse is on fire lighting up Whoopie Goldberg for her OUTRAGEOUS comments that women should not hit men and if they do, they should not be surprised when men hit back.

    Was that an endorsement of men hitting women? Obviously not. She said women should be taught from a very young age, as are boys, not to hit anyone. She did not say a woman deserved to be struck if she threw the first punch, but just that she shouldn’t be surprised if she assaults a man and he assaults her back.

    As a post-modern feminist warrior, I find her comments sound and wise and it is distressing to see the reaction to her basic argument that nobody should hit anybody and if you hit first, be prepared for a reaction. Some women want all the benefits of equality while still denying their own equal share of responsibility in this world. Along with equal rights come equal obligations.

    Having been vilified myself on Twitter for making a joke (and then perhaps taking it too far once I was fed up with the trolls) I can certainly relate to your experience. I now only post my blog on Twitter and I don’t interact with people because frankly, their inability to reason frightens me.

    No, not just inability, but downright refusal. I think most of the world is made up of people like this and that explains war, genocide, global warming, obesity and the Kardashian empire.

    When people close their eyes and plug their ears so as not to be exposed to difficult questions and hypotheses, they are assuming their place in line with the millions of sheep that have come and gone before them. No great man or woman was ever afraid of a controversial conversation.

    Love your work, Mr. Dawkins. Having been a victim of date rape in college, I agree. What happened to me was bad. But not as bad as it could have been. There, I said it.

    Robin

  4. You are logically correct – but also very naïve if you think an emotive subject like rape (or paedophilia) won’t generate a great deal of upset if you try to cram your point into 140 characters or less.

    Some people may make the logical mistake of thinking that if someone is intelligent they will also have a high EQ and therefore may have concluded that you were being deliberately contentious rather than – for example – being a bit of a pointy-headed twit.

  5. I am a Christian on your web site and yet I don’t disagree with what you say. It is important to explore the consequences of a ‘what if?’ scenario, as that can lead to a greater understanding of something that had previously been ignored or not touched for being a ‘no-go’ area.
    I think you could have approached the issue of rape differently to the way you did if you really wanted to explore the possibility that different prison sentences should apply to different incidents of rape (although I guess the Uk courts at least allow the judge some discretion in sentencing.) I think, had you wanted to explore this, it might have been better to specifically introduce the topic and your concerns. You didn’t do that and I’m thinking your justification for using the rape example above is something of an afterthought.
    With the right level of preamble describing what you want to discuss and why it may be important, I think most topics are not off limits. I don’t (unlike many tweeters) condemn you. It is obvious to me you never meant your example to be a comment on some rapes being less important than others. But, thinking of the victims of rape, I can see why they would react, why they would see a sentence like rape X is less important than rape Y as infuriating. Because it DIDN’T have the necessary preamble that you now add (on the sentencing of rapists.) And why didn’t t? Because you weren’t really making any point about rape. Rape was picked out of the air as an example of your more general X is bad Y is worse statement.
    Where does all this get us? Just choose examples that don’t upset people.

  6. This whole debacle reminds me of the story Hitchens often told about the women who scoured a new edition of a dictionary looking for obscene words. Amazing how the people attacking your posts on Twitter both are looking for something to be offended at as well as completely missing the point all together.

    It seems that not only are some people unwilling to discuss certain issues but are perfectly willing to crucify anyone who makes any kind of criticism. I would think that if you are willing to espouse your opinion on any current political, social, moral, or religious view you implicitly open yourself up as a target of criticism, constructive or not. It is the strength of an idea or movement to be able to address any criticism as well as the weakness of any movement to respond so poorly to it.

  7. I have observed Y worse than X in alpha datasets that experienced both phenomena. I have also observed beta people that experienced X and gamma people that have experienced Y and have concluded from all of these observations and comparisons of effect and outcomes that Y is worse than X.

    This is a logical statement.

    The statements you tweeted yesterday were the moral equivalent of “The earth is 6000 years old. If you disagree with that, then you haven’t read The Bible.”

    The pushback you experienced was from people who have first-hand data that they collected from being unwilling members of one of those datasets.

    A more correct statement for you would have been: “X and Y are both bad. I have greater empathy for Y and consider it to be worse. I have based this determination solely on my unscientific observation and I now believe that my determination should be considered law because I am more logical than the rest of you, have degrees in unrelated subjects. I have decided that these things qualify my intuition based empathy determinations to be more correct than yours.”

    This is theology, not logic, and it was odd seeing it spouted by you of all people.

    • X and Y are both bad. I have greater empathy for Y and consider it to
      be worse. I have based this determination solely on my unscientific
      observation and I now believe that my determination should be
      considered law because I am more logical than the rest of you, have
      degrees in unrelated subjects. I have decided that these things
      qualify my intuition based empathy determinations to be more correct
      than yours.”

      He wasn’t making a determination that Y was worse than X. Date rape could be worse than stranger rape, and his point would still hold. His point is that we should be free to discuss whether there are gradiations in the severity of things like rape and pedophelia. This was just explained very clearly in the article you just read.

  8. The twitter storm created by your discussion of “x is worse than y, but that doesn’t make y right” gives weight to the argument that Philosophy should be taught to all in school. We all have issues where emotion quickly overwhelms logical discussion. I have even see a university Ethics lecturer fall into this trap, calling me a “Nazi” when I was playing Devils advocate during a discussion (and as she had advised the Thatcher government, I thought she was being a touch harsh!)

    As you mention above, all rape is bad, but if every attack was equally vile, each perpetrator would get the same sentence. Perhaps the problem was discussing “rape” as a single entity rather than teasing out the component parts. That way it is possible to say all rape is equally horrific but some are made even worse by the addition of other crimes, such a beating or kidnapping the victim.

    But that still avoids the issue you raise. There are some people who, because of their make-up/experience are unable to have a logical argument about some subjects. One problem with this view is that it would follow that the victims of certain crimes are not best place to discuss dealing with those crimes as they will discount logic in favour of emotion.

  9. Well put – as usual. And obviously true. It’s a crying shame that it needs to be said – especially on a website like this. It’s even worse that you have to waste time stating the bleeding obvious to the choir.

    To your critics that prompted this article: get a grip – there’s evil aplenty out there – direct your ire at it – not at one of our finest.

    To Richard Dawkins: thank you.

  10. I’m glad you make reference to those moral philosophical dilemas, because what immediately popped into my head when I saw the arguments, was the “Train problem,” which I’m sure you are aware of. You know, “would you pull the lever to divert the train to save five, yet kill one?” One of the main things about that moral test, is that the next example pushes the moral dilema a bit further, and so on, making the choice more difficult. But even then, it is known that philosophy students ask “what if” questions about the given scenarios, no matter how tight the questioner tries to make the situation.

    So a few things puzzled me. As a regular Twitter user, you seemed surprised at the mixed reaction. I might have thought you’d already know what you would get. And also, why you stepped right in at the deep end, rather than build up the context, which may have been more understandable. At this point though, we probably both agree that Twitter is hardly the place to make something like this work.
    And then the “Date-rape versus Stranger-knifepoint rape.” I might be wrong, but did you originally leave out the ‘knife’ and put it in later, in order to up the stakes? But whatever the case, it struck me that this example of a comparative moral judgement is so far away from how the “train problem” tries very hard to stop the “what if” questions (yet they still come), and is open to so many challenges to the questioner, that it was plainly the wrong example to use.
    In summary, you should know what to expect from Twitter, its limitations on usage, and you used examples that were far too open to challenges!

  11. I think rationalists should be free to discuss spectrums of nastiness, even if only to reject them. I had noticed indications that rape and pedophilia had moved out of the discussion zone into a no-go taboo area. I wanted to challenge the taboo, just as I want to challenge all taboos against free discussion.

    Richard, you are free to discuss these subjects, clearly. As we are free to be offended by them. No-one is being censored.

    Just as the ‘thought police’ can’t actually stop you from using whatever ammunition you chose in your quest for logic uber alles, you can’t outlaw people having an emotional response to emotive subjects. Indeed, I dare-say your career would suffer if they did!

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