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Ray Rice will be suspended for 2 games (twitter.com)

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[–]GiantsApologician 275 ポイント276 ポイント

Just remember kids it's okay to beat the shit out of your SO, but don't you dare smoke any weed. That shits bad...

[–]RaidersNorthHame 42 ポイント43 ポイント

The Reefer Madness might make you do something real bad, like beat someone up....

[–]PatriotsLutzExpertTera 66 ポイント67 ポイント

It's written into the player rules that a 3rd infraction for marijuana leads to a year suspension. AFAIK there's no rule saying "assault is XX suspension/fine." Goodell imposed this suspension at his own discretion, so it's stupid to compare Rice to Gordon.

Not to mention, Rice is a 1 time offender versus someone like Gordon who has been caught multiple times. To be clear, in no way do I condone what Rice did, but these comparisons to the marijuana suspensions are stupid.

Another excerpt from the article I linked:

Former Ravens cornerback Cary Williams was suspended for two games by the NFL during the 2010 season for a domestic-violence incident. And former Ravens cornerback Fabian Washington was suspended for one game during the 2008 season for a domestic-violence incident. Both were first-time offenders.

Now the real question is, should the suspensions levied against domestic abusers be more than 2 games? I would think probably. But the 1-2 game precedent has already been set for first time offenders, and Goodell was following it.

[–]PackersCelebornX 34 ポイント35 ポイント

I don't think anyone is suggesting that the rules aren't being correctly followed.

We're suggesting that they're bullshit.

A player can get fucking hammered drunk weekly and that's fine. He smokes pot and plays Xbox a few times and he's suspended for a year. He knocks his girlfriend unconscious and he's suspended for two games.

Yes, getting busted for weed more than once shows that he's not following the rules properly. But I still think someone who just can't control his urge to smoke weed is much less of a threat to the league or others than someone who commits domestic violence.

[–]Packerssmaug8821 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It doesn't really change the fact that he's breaking a rule he knows exists. I think pretty much everyone here would agree with you that it's silly, but that's not really the point.

There is a lot of shit at my job that I think is ridiculous, and am not a fan of. Does this mean I just ignore the rules and do what I want?

Should they change the stance on weed? Yes. But until they do, they can't just back down because, "it's not that big of a deal".

[–]PackersCelebornX 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Again, too much focus on Josh Gordon. Yes, he broke a known rule and is being punished for it.

The problem is, Ray Rice also broke a rule he knows exists. But his crime wasn't harmless. He knocked another person unconscious. And he's only suspended for 2 games for it.

Smoking weed a few times and getting busted each time is a much smaller, more harmless crime than domestic violence.

I don't care if he's a repeat offender. He's not committing physical violence on another person.

[–]Packerssmaug8821 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Yeah, I agree that the weed rules are silly, like I said. The thing is(and I'm saying this as someone who domestic abuse has affected tremendously), everyone has the right to defend themselves. Nobody knows what really happened, so none of us are really in a position to hand out punishments.

It's not like he beat her repeatedly and she came out of there with broken limbs and two black eyes. What if she was a threat to give him a finger to the eye? That's a career-ender right there. I don't care if you're a woman in that case, it doesn't give you a right to be batshit-insane.

I guess my point is that he has no history of abuse, and he has a right to defend himself in a situation where he can't just walk away(elevator). We don't know all the facts.

[–]Billsdrewdistilled 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Jesus Christ thank you for this. "Stop overreacting he's following the rules" yeah, well, the rules are retarded

[–]PatriotsRedditRebirth1 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Why not just look at most of Gordon's longer suspension as a "You are a fucking idiot" suspension for violating the same rule over and over again? I don't see a problem with that.

[–]Vikingsashenblade 14 ポイント15 ポイント

So it's not a big deal because Goodell was following the precedent that he set?

[–]Ravensalecmc20 15 ポイント16 ポイント

Holy shit, thank you. I think Rice should be suspended for more games too, but I agree that comparing the two suspensions isn't accurate.

[–]BrownsDaviroth 17 ポイント18 ポイント

Comparing the two suspensions is not a major argument (seriously) against the Rice suspension though, he just straight deserves to be suspended longer.

[–]Ravensalecmc20 6 ポイント7 ポイント

I agree, at least 4 games in my opinion.

[–]BroncosHoser117 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Why should that matter? Goodell has done an incredible number of things over his tenure that completely went against the precedent, it's not like it's been something to stop him before. It's just ridiculous to me that you can only get a 2 game suspension for something like that.

[–]PatriotsSilkyJohnson99 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

It's written into the player rules that a 3rd infraction for marijuana leads to a year suspension. AFAIK there's no rule saying "assault is XX suspension/fine." Goodell imposed this suspension at his own discretion, so it's stupid to compare Rice to Gordon.

Who gives a fuck? Common sense should rule over some NFL suspension rulebook.

[–]Coltslucky_whiplash 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Like a loved one!!

Wait a minute.

[–]Steelersmags87 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Assistant: Sir, a player was just arrested for hitting his wife.

Goodell: Be sure to release a press statement saying that its bad and we will "look into it."

Assistant: He also had marijuana in his possession.

Goodell: !?!?!

[–]SteelersBuckHuckster 8 ポイント9 ポイント

It's also bad to get free tattoos. That shit will get you 5 games (see: Terrelle Pryor).

[–]Bengalskeasbyknights22 0 ポイント1 ポイント

They weren't even "free" - he had to trade his stuff for them. He just wasn't supposed to do that until he was no longer an amateur.

[–]LionsTortoiseHairs 0 ポイント1 ポイント

But only if you do it before you are even in the NFL!

[–]Packerszipcodebreaker 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It's also bad to get free tattoos. That shit will get you 5 games (see: Terrelle Pryor).

It's also bad to drive under the influence, have illegal drugs on you and $30,000 in cash. That'll get you a.....Welp! Forget it. If you're an owner you can do whatever you want.

[–]Ravensmbear818 77 ポイント78 ポイント

Reposting from the sister thread...

Look, no one is ever going to argue that hitting a person is more acceptable than smoking a joint. It is not. However, you're leaving out all of the context of this situation that has been discussed ad nauseum.

Josh Gordon has committed three suspension worthy acts - smoking pot. Is pot morally reprehensible? Most people, especially now, would say no. But public perception of it has changed over the years, and the NFL is allowed to make and enforce its own rules for player conduct. Josh Gordon disregarded this rule, repeatedly. If the league is going to set escalating penalties for players breaking the same rule over and over (which makes sense - they have to get the point somehow), then it has to enforce its own rules. On top of that, Gordon got a DUI recently - and please note that his suspension has not been announced, so we don't officially know what the deal is there.

On the topic of Ray Rice - he has a stellar history in terms of personal conduct, with his community work and campaigns for anti-bullying. He had established himself as a very positive sort of person, and it shouldn't be said that this history says nothing about him anymore, now that he's made a mistake. Also, the report is that Janay Palmer, his fiancee, struck him repeatedly in the elevator, and that Ray hit her back once, hard. She hit her head on the railing in the elevator and lost consciousness. Ray should never have hit her, but she should not have hit him either.

Goodell met personally with Ray and Janay a month ago, and I think it is safe to say that he knows more than anyone in this thread about the situation, including me. And Goodell is not well known for mercy.

[–]GiantsColinMichaelRisley 107 ポイント108 ポイント

He knocked his wife out and gets 2 games, no matter what anyone says that's a crock of shit, especially after Brandon Browner last year.

[–]Ravensmbear818 8 ポイント9 ポイント

If you simplify it down to that, sure. Again, Goodell knows more than we do.

I would have expected 4 games, to be honest. But everyone in here is just speculating angrily. The NFL has seen the full tape and interviewed Ray and Janay. We have seen a video of the aftermath.

[–]GiantsColinMichaelRisley 35 ポイント36 ポイント

I just think no matter what context, when you have video of a guy dragging his unconscious wife opposed to a guy taking adderall there is a problem when the suspension for adderall is longer.

[–]Packersjanorilla 16 ポイント17 ポイント

"Adderall" is what they say for every PED violation. Honestly it's kinda twisted logic but PED affect the game. Beating your wife doesn't.

[–]Seahawksfolieadeux6 16 ポイント17 ポイント

Except Browner wasn't suspended for Adderall, he was suspended for weed once while he was in training camp with the Broncos and got the other two strikes by not showing up to NFL drug testing...because he was playing in the CFL. Which is why he was caught smoking once (How can I be so certain of this? When you are at strike three you get tested a lot) and learned that he was suspended for a year.

[–]Ravensblex64 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Not showing up for a drug test is the same as failing a drug test. If he didnt want to risk his NFL career and couldn't show up on time then he should have dropped the CFL.

[–]golf4miami -1 ポイント0 ポイント

What? Everyone knows he beat his wife, everyone. Don't you think this could create an image problem?

[–]Ramszaviex 2 ポイント3 ポイント

she could've unloaded 30 punches at him and the appropriate response is grab her arms you are 10x stronger. Don't fucking mike tyson her! Im sorry there is literally no way this is ok.

[–]Ravensmbear818 5 ポイント6 ポイント

It's not okay. I'm not saying it's ok. It was wrong.

edit: I cannot believe how many times I've said that exact thing in this thread. He deserved that suspension.

[–]Ramszaviex 8 ポイント9 ポイント

2 games is relatively absurd compared to the suspensions we are seeing for other offenses

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Well, then I'd say Goodell knows something we don't. Unless you think he's just feeling nice today.

[–]Ramszaviex 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Or, its quite possibly just a really bad decision. This is the same guy that suspended Big Ben 4 games for not actually committing a crime so i can't see any world in which not committing a crime but being a bit creepy is worse than knocking out your wife for any fucking reason

[–]Ravensmbear818 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

But don't you think Goodell would keep up his tendency towards harshness? Unless he's secretly a Ravens fan.

I expected 4, to be honest. But the difference between the two situations is Ray's stellar past history and the mutual abuse.

[–]Giantsluckyshamrok19 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The NFL has seen the full tape and interviewed Ray and Janay. We have seen a video of the aftermath.

Absolutely no one is buying that argument man. We have an official police report that says that he "attempted to cause bodily injury to [her], specifically by striking her with his hand, rendering her unconscious." After watching the video his charge was upgraded from simple assault to aggravated assault, and charges against her were dropped.

Seems pretty clear to me, but my opinion means nothing. I expected a longer suspension, but I'm just disappointed in all of them. I'm glad that Rice is taking responsibility for his actions at least.

[–]Ravensmbear818 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

What do you mean "no one is buying that argument?" Public opinion seems very split.

All I'm saying is that we've seen the outcome. Goodell, a man known for being harsh and criticized for being overly harsh in the past, saw ALL of the evidence. He made this decision. Everyone in this thread is operating on less information than Goodell, but claim that his decision was bad. It's absurd.

[–]Giantsluckyshamrok19 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Public opinion is split because people think the rule being applied (1st offense = 1-2 games) is unfair, given the gravity of his actions. There is no split of public opinion over what happened - the facts are in the police report. Lack of information isn't whats causing this debate.

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Not all of the facts are in the police report. Police reports are the most preliminary aspect of a case. The video from inside the elevator and the testimony of the involved parties cannot be discounted in favor of the police report.

[–]Giantsluckyshamrok19 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The only facts required to charge him are the ones in the police report... But if you're that focused on the evidence, does the fact that after watching the video they upgraded the charges against Rice from simple assault to aggravated assault while dropping charges against his fiance say nothing to you then?

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Does the outcome of the case mean nothing to you?

[–]go_gobanana 0 ポイント1 ポイント

If you simplify it down to that, sure.

But that is what it really comes down to. Rice, not only hit his wife, but he knocked her unconscious.

Maybe they were arguing, but lots of married couples do this. Maybe she was getting violent..... Ok, his solution is violence right back???

Roethlesburger received 6 games for his alleged rape incident, which was later cut to 4 games. I think Rice should have been suspended to something similar (6 games, with a chance to cut 2 games based completing anger management classes or something).

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I don't think that would have been totally outrageous. Though the difference here is Ray's stellar past record and the mutual abuse.

[–]VikingsRswany 0 ポイント1 ポイント

We get it, he plays for the ravens and you're a ravens fan.

[–]Ravensmbear818 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I'm getting really sick of people saying I cannot have a coherent opinion because this guy is on my team. I'm not a weak minded person, and I'd love if you would not condescend to me like that.

[–]VikingsRswany 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You're allowed to have an opinion but it's pretty clear by the way you're grasping at straws that you're anything but unbiased.

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm grasping at straws? Did you even read my post? You don't think it's relevant that Goodell has all the information here and everyone else is working with gaps?

[–]VikingsRswany 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yes saying "Maybe Goodell saw something!" Is grasping at straws.

What could he possibly have seen that would justify Ray knocking out his fiance?

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Nothing. If it was justified somehow, he wouldn't be suspended.

[–]Giants_ShutThatBabyUp -1 ポイント0 ポイント

you don't think that money grubbing whore and that jigaboo had some time to collaborate that story to make sure they get as many paychecks as they could?

[–]BengalsGrundle_Poacher 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yeah. Even if the hit was somehow justified as a moment of passion (it's not), the video clearly shows him dragging her unconscious body around like a ragdoll. :(

[–]Broncosbcos4life 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Cool. Its been too long since I have gotten to hear Ravens fan justification.

[–]Ravensmbear818 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I'm not sure what you mean.

[–]Broncosbcos4life 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Eh, just poking at the ol Ray Lewis murder thing.

I gained a level of understanding on the whole thing last year. I'm also a huge Avalanche fan, and our goalie got arrested for domestic dispute and had to defend him all year.

[–]RavensFreeStateBro 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Love me some Varly

[–]RavensChickinSammich 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Ravens fan here. 2 weeks is a slap on the wrist. I was expecting at least 4.

[–]Ravensblex64 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It doesn't have much to do with justification. The NFL has to follow their own rules.

[–]Seahawksrazelbagel 0 ポイント1 ポイント

My issue has nothing to do with rice's suspension vs Gordons. While I don't think pot is a big deal, the nfl isn't levying criminal punishment. Gordon signed a contract to become an employee of the nfl, and in it was said he is not allowed to smoke pot, while laying out the punishments if he does. And he chose to break the rules of his company and smoke any way. He isn't being suspended because he smoke pot, which might seem like no big deal. Hes being suspended for violating company policies. Same as if you or I were to show up to work late 3 times.

My issue with Ray Rice though, is 2 games is ridiculous. It's a slap in the wrist for domestic violence. Now, there shouldn't be a double standard, so if his wife is hitting him she should be charged with domestic violence as well. But that doesn't justify his violence. He punched someone and knocked them unconscious. And misses 2 games. Thats it. Nfl suspensions are on a sliding scale, punishments increasing with #of offenses, but the scale for domestic violence should start much higher than 2 games for a first offense.

[–]BroncosStandgeblasen 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I understand the repeat offender should get more punishment, but what about the 6-game suspension for Von Miller last season?

Miller had no prior suspensions. I don't see how a first offense for knocking your SO out cold AND having it recorded on CCTV can only warrant a 2 game suspension

[–]Broncosxhrisman77 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I am not sure if im more disgusted with the NFL or the US justice system. If he was anything other than a super rich Athlete he would be in fucking jail right now where he should be. Money can buy happiness but it buys you freedom from the law in this country.

[–]PackersMursupallo -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Welcome to the world where its ok for women to beat men and if you defend yourself, you will get destroyed.

[–]CowboysDanethol 10 ポイント11 ポイント

You're right, Rice's fiancée was a real physical danger to him and there was no way he could have defended himself short of knocking her the fuck out.

[–]PackersMursupallo -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I didnt say its ok to hit people but this style of dissing only the male one is a big joke. I bet that situation would never happened if there was no "I'm woman, I can do whatever I want" attitude towards violence.

[–]CowboysDanethol 3 ポイント4 ポイント

No one is saying his fiancée had the right to slap him without repercussion. However, when Ray had a choice to make, he opted to uppercut the woman he loved rather than try to restrain someone that likely weighed over a hundred pounds less than him.

[–]PackersMursupallo 0 ポイント1 ポイント

When you slap someone enough times, you will get slapped back. It's not any excuse to say "yeah well he is much bigger he should just do nothing". I doubt that many would do any different if someone is constantly hitting you. It's easy to talk on the internet about what's right or wrong when you were not there.

[–]VikingsRswany 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Is /r/theredpill leaking?

[–]CowboysDanethol 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That basically equates to "an eye for an eye". I guess if that's your take then we won't agree on this, but if the NFL really cares about their public image or setting any kind of example for their younger fans it is completely irresponsible for them to give out a two game ban. Even if it was instigated by the woman a lengthier ban would have sent a message to both of them and their fans. "Ray is the breadwinner for your marriage, and every time this happens you risk losing the money that supports both of you. Fans, punching your spouse is not a nice thing to do".

A two game ban gives the message of the NFL saying "these things happen". It's completely unacceptable.

[–]Panthersramo805 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

If the sexes were reversed you would be accused of "victim blaming"

[–]CowboysDanethol 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You're right. I probably hold a biased viewpoint on how men should treat women in a physical altercation. Unfair? Maybe. Illogical? I guess you could say that. Can you answer a question for me though?

Let's say you have a girlfriend who slaps you in an elevator. You are physically much stronger than her. Do you hit her back? Y/N

[–]Brownsflashcats -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I don't think the context adds a single bit when the result is still absurd.

They can change their own fucking rule.

This isn't the government. This is a private organization.

If mom says, "Go to bed at 10 PM or you are grounded" but you stay up until 10:30 PM, she DOESN'T HAVE TO GROUND YOU.

It's her own fucking rule. She can change it if she wants.

[–]Ravensmbear818 0 ポイント1 ポイント

And then your brother will see that and stay up till 11, fearing no reprisal.

Enforcing your own rules is management 101.

[–]Brownsflashcats 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Slippery slope.

Just because you make one exception doesn't mean you need to make all exceptions.

[–]SquishSquash81 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Just remember kids it's okay to beat the shit out of your SO, but don't you dare smoke any weed. That shits bad...

Don't forget the criminal justice system has often sent this same message to repeat drug offenders vs first time abusers.

[–][deleted]

[deleted]

    [–]PatriotsMarcurial 18 ポイント19 ポイント

    It wasnt Goodell's decision with the weed, that's the NFL's drug policy after multiple offenses. He could change the policy though for the future

    [–][deleted]

    [deleted]

      [–]PatriotsMarcurial 6 ポイント7 ポイント

      I think all of the owners and the NFLPA have to agree on a new policy as well, so it would probably be a long process with lots of gridlock

      [–]RavensShambloroni 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      It needs to be changed but it looks like the CBA isn't up until 2021. Hopefully, they'll revisit it after this season and get it right.

      [–]Eaglesfamouslastwords 2 ポイント3 ポイント

      It just isn't within his power to singularly do anything about it. The NFLPA and owners would likely need to come to an agreement, which hardly ever happens when the subject is something mundane, let alone when it comes to drugs.

      [–][deleted]

      [deleted]

        [–]Eaglesfamouslastwords 1 ポイント2 ポイント

        I'll be honest and say that I don't know the NFL by-laws well enough to know if Goodell can change the rule retroactively, or on a case by case basis. He could change it going forward, sure, but Gordon's ship has sailed because he has been caught multiple times. It's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard, but I don't think Goodell can change it aside from lessening the punishment after Gordon appeals.

        [–]Coltsrenasissanceman6 5 ポイント6 ポイント

        Goodell isn't the only decision maker in this.

        [–]Patriotsknoblauch 7 ポイント8 ポイント

        It wasn't Goodell's decision. The league's rules mandated the (bullshit) year long suspension.

        [–]Raidersunclejusty -1 ポイント0 ポイント

        Okay I get that. But why hasn't Goodell pushed the league to change this? I hate people of power who use these 'rules' as an excuse for their decisions. He should be looking into changing these outdated rules.

        [–]Vikingsthelfj 6 ポイント7 ポイント

        Because he is controlled by 32 old men who have anti weed beliefs entrenched in their psyches.

        [–]Steelersjimbo831 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        But who are apparently not too concerned with guys beating up their girlfriends.

        [–]LionsCulturaProfetica 4 ポイント5 ポイント

        /#Just40sKidsThings

        [–]Patriotsknoblauch 1 ポイント2 ポイント

        Yup.

        [–]MeoowDude 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Mmmkay?

        [–]NFLCharlottesWebster 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        And God help you if you get a free tattoo!

        [–]Lionssmoothtrip 0 ポイント1 ポイント

        Yeah, if you were only caught smoking weed. But most of these morons that get suspended for drunk driving, drunken bar assaults, and marijuana. It is not like they are caught once and immediately thrown out of the league. They keep fucking up and getting arrested over and over again. That is why they are out of the league, not because they were caught once with weed.

        [–]49ersJobuke 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        Nice job oversimplifying a very complex situation

        [–]FalconsBlainetologist -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

        Josh Gordon is facing a year long suspension for weed, Terrell Pryor lost 5 games because of tattoos he got in college. Ray Rice fined 58,000 for beating the shit out of his fiance, Joe Horn was fined 30,000 for using a cellphone during a TD celebration..

        And good job Ravens for stating that his Fiance accepts her fault in the whole situation, tell me what fault is that? Is it because she accidentally got in the way of his fist? Is it because she didnt keep her mouth shut about it all?

        This is totally fucked and the NFL and Ravens outta be ashamed at themselves and the examples they are making in regards to domestic violence and personal accountability.

        [–]Oekss 7 ポイント8 ポイント

        You should really look up the facts of this case. You are very clearly speaking directly from your asshole.

        [–]jake14141 4 ポイント5 ポイント

        FYI, the "fault" she accepted was attacking him in an elevator before she got in the way of his fist. Not defending the guy, but at least read the report before lubing up for the circle jerk.