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[–]joecool4234234 12 ポイント13 ポイント

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Thank God for protecting us.

I don't understand when people speak like this. Do you think he personally intervened on your behalf to protect you from a punch, while he does nothing for Christians being killed in other countries? What about the free will of the drunks that might punch you? Did God stop their free will? I just don't understand why people use such language instead of just saying they are happy they weren't hurt.

[–]Adding_Machine -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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It's because you are seeing it with your own understanding. God is either Lord of All, or not Lord at All, as the quip goes. If He is in control of my life, and the life of the persecuted, then why am I spared persecution and they are not? I don't know, but Jesus told us it rains on the just and the unjust alike. Solomon said in ecclesiastes: Though a sinner do evil an hundred times, and his days be prolonged, yet surely I know that it shall be well with them that fear God, which fear before him: But it shall not be well with the wicked, neither shall he prolong his days, which are as a shadow; because he fears not before God.

Moreover, in Job: Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity. For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

If something evil happens, God doesn't come on at the end of the commercial and say "I approve this message." Far from it. But bad things happen because of the evil of sin in this world. Who ever stole from someone because they loved them? But rest assured, God sees it, He loves everyone, and He gives everyone a chance to repent from their sins, whether they've heard the gospel or not, as it says in romans: "For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves." We know right from wrong, we're born with conscience. It's sin that overrides that, and so we must reconcile with God, even the unbeliever. So if God deals with a person individually, why does he not bless a person individually, especially if they are about the Lord's work?

[–]joecool4234234 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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I'm sorry, but I really have no idea how that was an answer to the questions I posed...Could you be a little clearer and say what part of my comment you are answering? I will number them to make it easy.

  1. Do you think he personally intervened on your behalf to protect you from a punch, while he does nothing for Christians being killed in other countries?

  2. What about the free will of the drunks that might punch you? Did God stop their free will?

[–]Adding_Machine -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

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Sorry, but I'm not understanding how you weren't able to infer the meaning of my post, or how it was associated with yours.

When a christian talks about freewill, we are speaking of the freewill of the individual to choose God, or not. What you are referring to is known as divine intervention. God, in his sovereignty, does intercede on the behalf of people all the time. Let's look at some examples in the scriptures:

Moses and Pharaoh, did God say to Pharaoh "No, that's okay.. My people can stay there"? Certainly not. In Fact, he hardened Pharaoh's heart to not let the children of Israel go, according to scripture. Exodus 7:5 "And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them." The 10 plagues corresponded to the associations of the big 10 Egyptian gods, and was to show both the Egyptians and Hebrews that God was mighty, real and true. So the answer to both your questions, which are really the same question, is an emphatic yes!

What you have to understand is that we can not fully comprehend the workings of the mind of God. As it says in Isaiah 55:8-9 "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Why is it his will that some christians suffer, and others are blessed? I don't know. However, I trust my God, and I know that all is well with my soul, and that while this body will go the way of all flesh, I know all will be well with my soul.

[–]joecool4234234 2 ポイント3 ポイント

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So we don't actually have free will to do things on earth, only whether to love God or not?

In which case, why wouldn't he stop murder and rape? Do you think there is some good God brings through a 50 year old man raping then murdering a 4 year old girl, never to be caught by men? Do you just take it on faith that there is some good plan God has?

[–]Adding_Machine -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

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You know what, God will let a man do just about anything he purposes in his heart, no matter what form of evil it is. However, you will stand before Him on the day of judgment and give account for all you have done, unless you are saved in Christ Jesus.

When sin came into this world, we were hopeless without the law and sacrifice, and Jesus even told us just how few people would be saved by the law, or regulations. What do you think He was referencing when he spoke "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Unless you repent, and turn to Christ, you are dead in your sins.

However God will intercede for us, and help us in our times of need. It's our faith, and I've seen it made manifest in my own life.

Let's think about the holocaust. The horrible nature of all that mass murder. You might say: "The Jews are supposed to be God's people, and God's not a liar, right? So why did he let all that evil happen to them?" It was prophesied in the scripture time and again that the Jews would face evil at the hands of the world before being drawn back to Israel. It was 1948 when that prophecy was fulfilled. Jerusalem is even in the hands of the Jews, and bubby, that's some monumental stuff! However, even while the holocaust was going on, there were still those who risked their lives and livelihoods to bring whatever comfort they could to these people. I put money on the fact that those Jews prayed for help, and had mercy shown to them. And I also put money on the fact that many more prayed and were destroyed. Why? Don't know.

What about when a child is harmed, or molested? Jesus said "Take heed that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that in heaven their angels always see the face of My Father who is in heaven." God will give them their due, don't you worry about it. But because of sin, people do evil and horrible things, and practice every kind of perversion, not just sexual.

Yes, I do take it in faith that God has a plan, and that He's the Good Shepherd. I only know what's in the scriptures, and what He's revealed to me through His Words and deeds in my life. Just like Paul said in 1 Corinthians 13:11-12 "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." We can't understand everything here, in this corruptible flesh. However when I stand before the Lord in joy, I will, and that's enough.

[–]joecool4234234 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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hmm brevity and clarity are not one of your strengths. The way I see what you said summed up is God let's bad stuff happen for some people and not others for an unknown reason that you have faith is good. He will give the people who do bad things what's coming to them, except if they ask for forgiveness by Jesus. So in your system, the 14 year old who get's raped and murdered but doesn't accept Jesus will end up in a worse situation (perhaps hell, I don't know your theology) than the rapist that later repents and asks for forgiveness from Jesus. This is seen as a just system. Is this a fair representation?

[–]Adding_Machine -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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The problem with brevity in this situation is that you want a childs answer to a very complex issue, however, let me amuse you.

If the 14yo grows up and hears the gospel and doesn't repent, they will be judged. If the murderer/rapist hears the gospel and doesn't repent, they will be judged.

If they do not hear the gospel, they will be judged with the light they knew, and the mercy of Christ will apply to those who choose Him when they hear it.

Edit: Let me just say that the judgment of children doesn't occur in scripture.

[–]joecool4234234 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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I didn't ask for every inch of theology behind what you believe, simply asked what you believe. If answering what you actually believe in simple terms is a childs answer, then so be it, but I think you're just being a pompous ass.

So why is it hard for a straight forward answer with a yes or no? So it's yes, if a young adult of the age of reason hears the gospel and rejects it then get's raped and murdered but that rapist hears the gospel and asks for forgiveness, he will be rewarded in heaven while the raped and murdered young adult is in hell? Can you say yes or no that this is possible in God's system of justice? Can you just say the words instead of dancing around it?

[–]Adding_Machine -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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I already answered that question, bubby. The reason for the length of these posts was to try and expound upon these issues and give you a more complete view of the situation, because you seem like someone who has not read much of the bible.

Look, God loves you. Personally. He wants what's best for you, but that may not be what you think is best for you at this present moment. God is real, and He sings over you. The supernatural doesn't make sense to the modern world, because we have technology. Even this is prophesied in the scriptures, about how there will be a great increase of knowledge, and going to and fro in the last days.

I've seen you question the supernatural on here, but I've witnessed it with my own eyes. Why doesn't God send more Sons? Because every christian is supposed to be a son of God. We've been called to be Priests and Kings before our God, but a lot of the church is spiritually lazy, fat, hard and loveless. And it's those people who will be judged harshest according to scripture.

Come home, bubby. He loves you more than anyone else ever could.

[–]AtheistBekenel 3 ポイント4 ポイント

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We know right from wrong, we're born with conscience.

You may want to revise this. Conscience is not universal by any standard whatsoever. It's hardly logical to say that it recognises truth in morality, or distinguishes 'right from wrong' which does not exist if one takes God out of the picture. You can say that belief in him creates good and bad, but that isn't verifiable in any sense apart from eschatologically. Conscience is not of an objective nature by this standard at all, far from it, it's very subjective by its nature. In the absence of the verifiability of God, it's logical to say that there is no moral truth at all, and much more accurate to say that conscience creates truth.

[–]Adding_Machine 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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Sorry, but I'm not going to. While conscience is influenced by upbringing, everyone knows when they've been wronged, and I'm not going to dance around some sort of moral ambiguity to please anyone.

[–]AtheistBekenel -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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'They've been wronged'? Again, a subjective statement. They feel disapproval towards the act, due to its implications and so forth, recogntion of wrong is impossible.

[–]Adding_Machine 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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Sorry, not going to play this game with ya. Later, bud!

[–]Evangelicaltripletrules[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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This was good. :)

[–]Adding_Machine -1 ポイント0 ポイント

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Just tryin' to spread the Word, bud!