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Israel's Operation in the Gaza Strip (imgur.com)

submitted by someelse82

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[–]DarkBowels -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Without our full support and billions of dollars in annual military aid Israel wouldn't be able to keep warring like this.. WE are directly causing this. While the ISIL, al-assad, taliban, etc don't receive our support. True, we do give small funds to rebel groups in Syria and everyone is aware of our shit show with the Iraqi government (which most people continue to be against), our Israel involvement is the biggest issue of all.

[–]TheFerretman 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Good thing Israel isn't "warring".

If Hamas and the other crazy Muslim extremists would lay down their arms, there would be peace in the Middle East. If Israel laid down down their arms, there would be no Israel.

More mistakes than can be counted have been made by both sides, but the dead fact is that eternal war and hatred comes from the Muslim extremists, not Israel.

[–]tinteoj 1 ポイント2 ポイント

If Hamas and the other crazy Muslim extremists would lay down their arms, there would be peace in the Middle East. If Israel laid down down their arms, there would be no Israel.

Yes, that sounds great on a bumper sticker, but the truth is a hell of a lot more nuanced than that. There are plenty of settler groups that think God gave all of the ancient biblical lands to them, including all of Palestine. These settlers want to see all of the Palestinians killed or expelled from the land every bit as much as Hamas wants the Jews gone.

There are victims and perpetrators on both sides of this conflict.

[–]someelse82[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント

These settlers are not the majority in Israel, doesnt have much power in the political field as well. Israel backed out of land many times [Jericho, Gaza, North West Bank and many more] to give the Palestinians an option to build that land, just to find that they are being attack from the exact same area as soon as they leave. So obviously they are scared of leaving now [though they still do here and there], but most Israelies would love to get out of the West Bank - given the opportunity [a promise not to attack by the Palestinians].

[–]DarkBowels -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

It's not about religion, it's about land. If Hamas laid down their arms then the invasion force will have won and claimed their land. I'm not pro Hamas, but I can understand the hatred because all they have is that talk, Israel has the technology and weapons, they will win the land in due time.

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas 3 ポイント4 ポイント

invasion force

The Jews have been there for thousands of years.

They were historically there first.

[–]fuckujoffery 4 ポイント5 ポイント

The Jews have been there for thousands of years.

Until the 20th century Jerusalem was apart of the Ottoman Empire. Jerusalem has been controlled by Muslims continuously since the 3rd Crusade in 1295 up until Jewish immigration peaked during the 1940's. Yes there were Jewish people living in the area, there were also Christians and Muslims, Jerusalem doesn't belong to the Jewish people any more than it belongs to the Muslims or Christians.

[–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist 1 ポイント2 ポイント

None of that matters. Both have been there for thousands of years and would therefore have legitimate claims. One side, however is committed solely to the violent eradication of the other and that's why there can be no peace. How does a civilized person get along with someone like that. No people on earth would put up with the bullshit that Israel does and they are still condemned for any use of force. It's absolutely insane. I can't comprehend the vitriol against them.

[–]someelse82[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You are wrong about few facts, but that doesnt even matter - but lets go with that anyway: If you agree that the Muslims conquered Israel in the 1295, why does that belong to them? they obviously took it from someone else. You Israelies who were born in Israel [to a father and grand-father who were born in Israel], and now you want to take them out to put in an arab who was never born on that land, only because this Arab's ancestors once took it from someone else? Interesting...

[–]PostChristian 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Not the European or American Jews, which are a huge percentage of the Israeli population.

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Where do you think they came from?

[–]DarkBowels 1 ポイント2 ポイント

So were the canaanites with several other groups but the Jews cleaned house didn't they? Even still this is tragic. Jews and Muslims lived in Palestine in peace for over a thousand years. Even the actual orthodox followers of Judaism condemn Zionism.

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Nations like Egypt, Syria, and Iran fund and supply groups like Hamas to have them wage a proxy war against Israel. The Palestinians voted in Hamas. They can sleep in the bed they made.

I have no sympathy.

[–]DarkBowels -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Some AKs and homemade rockets which can be worth less than a thousand dollars... they must be receiving enormous support..

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yup... thousands of rockets and mortars, miles of tunnels... you're talking serious money paying for that:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel

Or can you not do math?

[–]DarkBowels 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Are we talking 120 billion dollars worth in the past decades? We're the biggest players in the proxy war, let alone all of the other countries combined

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas -1 ポイント0 ポイント

The point, since you missed it, is that Hamas is engaging in a war thanks to foreign nations and they are using the Palestinian people in the process.

Israel is only defending itself, which is fair.

[–]MoosPalangHope and Change 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Why did the Palestinians vote for Hamas?

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Stockholm Syndrome.

[–]PhilosoGuidoConstitutionalist 1 ポイント2 ポイント

WTF? Israel has basically given them West Bank and Gaza at the 1967 borders. There is no invasion. If Israel wanted to take that land they could take it all by force tomorrow. And don't say they couldn't do it because of international pressure, because even the most metered and precision use force to defend itself is condemned by the same crazy leftists

[–]DarkBowels 0 ポイント1 ポイント

No invasion force? How many Jews were there in the start of the 20th century, compared to now? Was the state formed through violence or peaceful agreements?

[–]YamiHarrison 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Aid to Israel is 1% of their GDP. They'd be able to "keep warring", and so without the ability of the US to influence them.

[–]DarkBowels 1 ポイント2 ポイント

That's over 3 billion in direct military aide annually, which is about 20% of their military budget.. and it's not even that it's the vast amount of investment and support from us on the international stage and basically no one else. Theyre practically our 51st state.