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Grandfather's Inheritance - SafeDeposit - Feds want it all (self.personalfinance)
submitted 9 ヶ月 前 by ajsandler22
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[–]tubaleiter 294 ポイント295 ポイント296 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
This may sound harsh, but that's not your money, that's the money your grandfather should have contributed in taxes as an American citizen. That money belongs to the people of the United States, as represented by our Federal government.
[–]arcainic 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
How else would subsidized industries offer their CEO competitive salaries for hookers and blow?
[–]GinDeMint 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
You know that federal spending isn't going to stop because those taxes weren't paid, right? Instead, non-tax cheats end up paying more.
[–]ihsw -19 ポイント-18 ポイント-17 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
That's fine, they can pay as much as they want.
[–]knomb -7 ポイント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Yeah I saw a line item on a proposed tax law change to make me pay .0000000000001 % a year for the next three years specifically because they don't have this dead guys 65k
Someone not paying does not at all make you pay more.
[–]buckus69 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
This is the correct answer.
[–][deleted] 9 ヶ月 前
[deleted]
[–]GinDeMint 46 ポイント47 ポイント48 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
And those freeways aren't going to build themselves, those Medicare payments aren't making themselves, the National Institutes of Health aren't going to fund their own research...
Whether you agree with American spending priorities or not, it's certainly not fair for people to underpay on taxes and let you foot more of the bill.
[–]asull822 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Oh yeah, people are never gonna build roads without governments.
[–]GinDeMint 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Are they going to make Medicare payments or NIH payments without government?
[–]asull822 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Medicare will eventually collapse. There's a thing called mutual aid societies
[–]GinDeMint 31 ポイント32 ポイント33 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Haha you think that taxes are inherently unfair, how cute.
[–]ChaosMotor -6 ポイント-5 ポイント-4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
"Haha you think slavery is inherently unfair, how cute."
[–]GinDeMint 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Taxes are slavery? Shit, I didn't realize that slaves had the right to move where they wanted at will, had robust public services provided for them, and were able to seek court judgments for violence against them.
When you compare anything that's not slavery to slavery, you diminish what slavery was and look dumb in the process.
[–]ChaosMotor -8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Slavery is when someone uses violence to force someone else to labor, for the benefit of the former.
When you pretend that stealing someone's labor in the form of taxes is not slavery, you diminish what slavery is, and look dumb in the process.
[–]GinDeMint 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
So everyone in the entire world is a slave, because they pay sales taxes or income taxes or tariffs?
[–]legba -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Serf is a better and more accurate word. You pay a portion of everything you produce to your feudal master, The State. Oh, btw, in feudal times it was customary for serfs to give one ninth of their production to the feudal lord, one ninth to the church and keep the remaining seven ninths of all that he produced. They considered this a pretty harsh tax. Today, you're expected to pay over half of everything you earn to your feudal master through income, property and consumption taxes yet morons think that we're "free".
Please explain to me, when was the public vote on income taxes?
[–]BoratRemix 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
oh.. a down with federal government poster... on reddit of all places!?
[–]goofproofacorn 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Lol no. It's his money that the government wants
[–]dowork91 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
It's ok. For every person like you, there is at least one person like me who does everything they can to pay the smallest amount of tax possible without going to jail. Such as setting up residence in a different state to offset state and local tax burdens.
Remember, the best accountants go to work for corporations to help them avoid taxes. The IRS has trouble combating this because they get whoever couldn't cut it to work at a corporation.
[–]tubaleiter 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
There's a big difference between minimizing taxes and tax fraud or just not paying the taxes you owe.
I'm all for minimizing your tax burden within the law, just not for breaking the law, which is what it sounds like OP's grandfather did. Believe me, I'm not going out of my way to pay any more than I have to, either.
[–]dowork91 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Starve the beast, my friend.
[–]dgwieg -12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
It sucks, but this is true. It's our responsibility as citizens to support our country. And one of the ways we do that is by paying taxes.
However, if I had $70,000 on the line, I would be looking for every way out as well. Talk to multiple accountants and attorneys before opening that box and making a decision.
[–]paymefirst -22 ポイント-21 ポイント-20 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Hope /r/Libertarian doesnt get wind of this.
[–]die_civ_scum 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
they did - http://www.reddit.com/r/Shitstatistssay/comments/1na2lv/op_asks_for_financial_advice_to_rescue_his/
[–]pdclkdc -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
I suspect you are being downvoted for not substantially contributing to the discussion, but I believe your sentiment is valid.
Sometimes I wonder if the immediate disgust and "lalalala I can't hear you" reaction many people seem to have when the income tax is suggested to be illegal or immoral is simply a form of buyers remorse. There aren't very many, if any, alive who remember a time before your labor was taxed.
[–]workinglol 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
When I hear someone complaining about income taxes, I liken it to someone complaining about waiting in line. We're all here waiting in line with you, we all know this is how things are done, and yet you're the only one complaining. It seems childish to complain about something that, while not especially fun, is by most people considered necessary and the best way of doing something. Sure, it sucks waiting half an hour in line, and it sucks to give away a percentage of your paycheck, but the alternative is much worse.
[–]spacepirate001 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
"Death and taxes". The difference between your position and others is that some people refuse to sit and accept that, and "no" - at least in theory - is a good start for change. I think the "death and taxes" mentality is defeatist, inaccurate, and uncreative.
[–]workinglol 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
I'm not going to be the person who figures out how to eliminate taxes. I welcome the person who figures out the new system that is better, I just don't think we should dismantle the current system until we have something better. It's defeatist only in the sense that I don't have the answer, and no one has presented a better one so far.
[–]landwalker1 -13 ポイント-12 ポイント-11 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
So if it's the status quo it's automatically acceptable? The idiocy of your statement is beyond comprehension. Imagine if members of the government literally raped every daughter on her 13th birthday. Would that suddenly justify rape because you wait in lines and know "this is how things are done?"
Is your view of morality really that simplistic?
[–]workinglol 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前*
Sure, it sucks waiting half an hour in line, and it sucks to give away a percentage of your paycheck, but the alternative is much worse.
This is the important part of my post. The alternative to not paying taxes is an even worse system, which is why we accept it. No one has been able to present an alternative to taxation, which is why people accept it.
Usually, when you have to ask a question this silly, you can instead ask yourself "Am I maybe misunderstanding him?". It's pretty obvious that the reason I, like most people, accept taxation is for other reasons than "That's how it's done" - in this case, it's because "That's the way things should be done, because the alternative is worse". I have certain things I want from a government and from society, and you are welcome to present an alternative to the current system that you think will fulfill those criteria, but I really doubt you'll find one.
[–]dt084 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
There are alternatives, you will just say you don't like them and disregard them as non-alternatives.
That's sort of my point - I, and many like me, have already considered the alternatives and have found them lacking. It's not like people like me love giving away a certain amount of our paycheck every week, it's that we understand that certain products have certain costs. Having a functional government with safety nets and protections for those who can't protect themselves is part of what we consider essential to an alternative. You'll never convince me to accept an alternative that is better for me and worse for those who need the most help. I do alright despite paying taxes and might do better without them, but that isn't really good enough for the society I'd like to be a part of.
[–]dt084 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Having a functional government with safety nets and protections for those who can't protect themselves is part of what we consider essential to an alternative. You'll never convince me to accept an alternative that is better for me and worse for those who need the most help.
But this is where things just come down to a differing of opinion. Left anarchists and anarcho-capitalists (two very different ideologies btw) would both agree that those in need of help would be better off without governments. So statists and non-statists are both making assumptions about how the destitute are better off with regards to government. These arguments just go in circles because it is impossible to test these assumptions empirically.
So the reality is you like the status quo and alternatives presented are not convincing to you. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, but given that it is just an opinion, it's not really fair to dismiss anyone's opinion that is different from yours as non-alternatives. They are alternatives, you just don't like them.
[–]rogue780 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
I don't mind paying taxes, so long as the money is spent responsibly. The United States Government has demonstrated time and time again that they are not good stewards of our money.
[–]workinglol 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
I'm not an American citizen, which might explain why I don't mind taxes. Hating taxes because you're an American citizen is like hating football because you're from Oakland.
Um, good for you? Does not being an American make you alright with people mismanaging your money and using that as a justification to take more?
[–]OHotDawnThisIsMyJawn 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
...
Imagine if members of the government literally raped every daughter on her 13th birthday. Would that suddenly justify rape because you wait in lines and know "this is how things are done?"
Lol
[–]srbram -15 ポイント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Perhaps he doesn't give a shit about the US governments claim to the money and wants it because he needs it? I'm sure that if you were in this situation you wouldn't exactly be rushing to give it up.
[–]bigupurself7 -11 ポイント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Wow...this country is already dead
[–]eclecticEntrepreneur -10 ポイント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
That's the government's money because the government said so!
[–]That_Russian_Guy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
That's like saying that after you buy something "That's the businesses money because the business said so!". Well yea you are exchanging money for services like police and roads. You can make the argument that you didn't choose this country but you are free to move away at any time.
[–]eclecticEntrepreneur 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
"exchanging" implies consent.
I've covered this in my second point.
[–]eclecticEntrepreneur 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
That's not a point, that's an irrelevant fact. Especially in this scenario, since taking the box and leaving the country would count as a crime in the government's eyes.
[–]That_Russian_Guy 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Well yea he already used their services. If he didn't wish to use these services he could have moved to a country with less taxes. Using the services or products provided by a business and then not paying them is called theft.
He was forced to use those services. He never opted in.
Could he have moved? Oh, sure, as long as he had all of the proper authorization and paperwork and, y'know, the financial resources to relocate his entire life.
statists are some of the most incompetent people on this planet.
[–]That_Russian_Guy 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
As someone who has moved countries several times, you're overestimating how hard it is. He could have if he wanted to, as he clearly had the money.
libertarians are some of the most incompetent people on this planet.
That's nice that you have the resources to do that. Unfortunately, most of us do not.
nah, you're the incompetent one here since you seem to be incapable of addressing your cognitive dissonance.
[–]tryzar -15 ポイント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
If he has that much cash laying around he likely paid more into the government then he used...
[–]flume 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
$65,000 isn't a lot of cash to have lying around at the end of your life, unless you lived significantly longer than you expected to.
[–]tryzar -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
It is a lot to have lying around. Most people have that kind of money in an IRA or stock or whatever at an old age.
[–]nte5550 -19 ポイント-18 ポイント-17 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
"This may sound harsh, but that's not your money, that's the money your grandfather should have contributed in taxes as an American citizen. That money belongs to the people of the United States, as represented by our Federal government."
Congratulations. This is the stupidest comment I've seen on here in the last 6 months.
Can you explain why?
[–]anotherweirdday -20 ポイント-19 ポイント-18 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前*
In the words of our president "He didn't build that."
Edit: downvotes, really? You think using guns to force people to pay for your programs is the glue that keeps society together, don't ya?
[–]SidePonyUnited States 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
Who said anything about guns?
[–]anotherweirdday 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
How else are taxes enforced? By shaking a naughty finger?
Generally by taking matters straight to the financial institution which holds the money. Can you show me one case where money had to be handed over by someone at gunpoint?
If you resist being hauled away.
You are advocating for a violent extraction of one's wealth. If one does not pay their taxes, men with guns show up and lock that person up in a cage.
You may take the utilitarian position that this violence is necessary for the sake of society, but don't pretend it's not violence.
[–]SidePonyUnited States 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
I never advocated violence. Nor did anyone else on this thread. However, continue to be melodramatic about taxes if you so desire.
I'm legitimately curious to your response on my previous comment.
In my eyes it is blatantly obvious that threatening to lock somebody up in prison if they don't relinquish their property is an act of aggression, but I will concede that my views are in the minority. However, whenever I try and engage somebody with a differing viewpoint, addressing this aspect of taxation shuts the conversation down.
So while I suspect you would agree that threatening imprisonment for failing to hand over private property is an act of aggression if I were to levy the threats against you, why does it not remain violence when it is done at the hands of the IRS?
You are a private citizen. The IRS is an extension of the government and people (correctly or not) feel they had some say in electing their government officials. No, I didn't elect the IRS auditor specifically, but his claims have far more legitimacy in the context of my money going to support public policy issues.
I certainly don't deny that tax collectors get their authority through legal channels in a democratic society. In fact, this is part of why I reject democracy as an ideal political system. It is tyranny of the majority. If the majority of people want legislate that black people can be owned as property or that they only count as 3/5ths of a person, this outcome is permissible under democracy (because right or wrong the majority of people agreed).
But this still isn't addressing the fundamental issue of whether taxation is an act of aggression. I agree that IRS agents have the legal authority to collect taxes and I agree that the government has legal authority to levy taxes, but that does not change the nature of taxes being an act of aggression. Would you agree that taxes are a legalized form of aggression?
I'm not seeing the aggression part unless you are saying democratic government is aggressive (rather than just "the IRS is aggressive").
I don't know that I would lay the blame specifically on the IRS agents, they are just doing their job. Rather I think it is more the entirety of taxation that is an act of aggression.
The fact that an individual faces the threat of imprisonment if they don't relinquish private property, is where I see the act of aggression. There is no choice in the matter. It is a situation where the government is saying "give us what we demand or we will lock you up".
I have no doubt the majority of Americans would claim that taxes are a valid form of funding government, I just don't think people are honest with themselves about the true, aggressive nature of taxation.
And I agree that democracy as manifested in a two-party system has many, many flaws.
[–]dt084 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 9 ヶ月 前
It's not melodramatic, it's honest. But perhaps I'm wrong, so let me ask you something.
If I were to demand that you give me some of your property or else I would lock you up in my dungeon, would you consider that to be an act of aggression against you?
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[–]tubaleiter 294 ポイント295 ポイント296 ポイント
[–]arcainic 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント
[–]GinDeMint 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント
[–]buckus69 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント
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[–]GinDeMint 46 ポイント47 ポイント48 ポイント
[–]asull822 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント
[–]GinDeMint 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント
[–]asull822 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント
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[–]GinDeMint 31 ポイント32 ポイント33 ポイント
[–]BoratRemix 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント
[–]goofproofacorn 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント
[–]dowork91 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント
[–]tubaleiter 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント
[–]dowork91 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント