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TIL that Wikipedia banned the Church of Scientology from editing any articles! (wired.com)

submitted by Windows7Guy100

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[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

He?

It's kinda awful to assume that a) men can't know kids socially without a problem and b) everyone on reddit is male to boot

[–]milesrout 4 ポイント5 ポイント

"He" is gender-neutral. Learn English.

[–]TheShadowKick 2 ポイント3 ポイント

The gender-neutral 'he' is somewhat archaic and increasingly not accepted. I'm partial to the singular 'they' myself.

[–]Hatewrecked 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Whenever 'they' refers to a single person, I always think of it as "the person and their tapeworm."

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Although I disagree, now I am thinking of the Futurama episode with the ' tapeworms' and while that would be absolutely grammatically correct, it is entirely too sad on all fronts.

[–]milesrout -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

Singular 'they' is incorrect. Sorry.

[–]TheShadowKick 4 ポイント5 ポイント

While the acceptance varies, it's disingenuous to say it's simply incorrect.

[–]milesrout -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

No it isn't.

[–]TheShadowKick 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Yes, it is

From the linked page:

"Some people object to the use of plural pronouns in this type of situation on the grounds that it’s ungrammatical. In fact, the use of plural pronouns to refer back to a singular subject isn’t new: it represents a revival of a practice dating from the 16th century. It’s increasingly common in current English and is now widely accepted both in speech and in writing."

[–]milesrout -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

16th century English isn't grammatical today.

[–]TheShadowKick 1 ポイント2 ポイント

This instance of it is.

You don't have to like it, and you don't have to accept the singular they, but it is accepted, liked, and used by many speakers of modern English.

[–]milesrout -1 ポイント0 ポイント

It absolutely is. It's also grammatically incorrect and a good sign that somebody doesn't know how to use English properly. I certainly wouldn't accept any job application where someone used singular they.

[–]mr_bartek 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You should too. They is gender-neutral singular form.

[–]milesrout -1 ポイント0 ポイント

No it isn't. "They" is exclusively plural.

[–]mr_bartek 1 ポイント2 ポイント

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they

Happy to help. :)

[–]milesrout -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Singular they is as grammatically correct as the misuse of 'literally'. If you consider poor grammar to be grammatically correct by virtue of being commonly used then maybe singular 'they' can be considered grammatically correct.

That isn't a good way to specify grammatical correctness.

[–]mr_bartek 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I understand looking at it from a grammatical point of view, however using singular they isan accepted form in British English.

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It's common. That doesn't make it correct. And what other form of English would we be talking about than English English?

[–]mr_bartek 0 ポイント1 ポイント

American English, which tends to follow its own rules at times.

[–]milesrout -1 ポイント0 ポイント

American
English

Different.

[–]FredCompany -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I hope you're joking

[–]milesrout 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I hope you're joking, mate. Generic 'he' is gender-neutral.

[–]FredCompany 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Maybe where you are. I've always heard "they"

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It has nothing to do with where I am. Singular 'they' is common but incorrect.

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[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I speak fluent English- you should probably learn the difference between discussion about gender and discussion about humanity.

[–]milesrout -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

You clearly don't speak fluent English if you don't recognised that generic 'he' is gender-neutral.

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

"The generic 'he'," in this case.

Oh, I recognize that it is traditional. I just don't recognize that it is actually gender neutral.

Sure, plenty of people may mean it that way. And I'm willing to accept that lots of published authors thought they did.

If you grew up in a world where people were referred to as "ladies," and that meant women, despite whatever other grammatical rules were behind it- would you be okay with that? Or would you maybe screw up your face a little and think, "Whoa, I am not a lady, that's not cool."

I just don't understand why dudes fight so hard for "men" to be both a term for 'people in general' and yet also exclusively a term for male humans. We have people, we have they, we have person, what is the big deal? Nothing is being taken away.

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Generic 'he' and male 'he' are completely different. They mean totally different things. They are coincidentally spelt the same and they are coincidentally pronounced the same. They are not the same word, they do not mean the same thing.

Nobody is 'fighting' for anything. I'm enlightening you to a fact of English grammar. Take it or leave it. I'm not telling you to use grammar correctly, as you can use correct or incorrect grammar to your heart's content. But you should definitely know that you're using incorrect grammar.

[–]b4zook4tooth 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Your "enlightening" looks a lot like everyone else's "fighting". They don't look the same, nor are they pronounced or mean the same thing. I'm not telling you to use the right word, as you can use whatever word you prefer to your hearts content.

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm not fighting for anything. I'm not an activist or a freedom fighter. I'm telling you how grammar works. There's no room for interpretation, discussion or compromise here.

[–]DrMaxis66 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

"He" is not a gender-neutral word. Learn English.

[–]skoy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Uhm... Yes it is. Has been since the 18th century.

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

In such cases a gender-specific pronoun may be used with intended gender-neutral meaning, as he has been used traditionally in English, although she is now sometimes used instead. Use of singular they is another common alternative.

Honestly, I'm fine with being called "he" as a person as soon as people are fine with being called "she" with no problem whatsoever because it's understood to be neutral.

[–]skoy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

We probably would be fine with it if we'd grown up with it as the accepted standard. For me it just sounds weird, like trying to shoehorn new words where old ones worked fine. Though honestly I don't really care that much either way.

Personally I'm more partial to the more recent use of 'they' as gender-neutral singular. But you can't just claim that 'he' as a gender-neutral pronoun is non-standard English...

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Honestly I grew up with it as a 'standard' and no... It sounds about as weird to me as if I said you were a girl or a boy and you weren't the one I said.

If you're a man, you're not a she/her in everyday life. Yeah fine, you can say a lot of people who wrote "he/him" meant Homo sapiens in general, but did they? Consider the time periods. It gets really sketchy when you look at man as a term for human when the vast majority of people saying it only believed literal men (no pun intended, hehe) were actual people and therefore citizens, property owners, etc.

[–]milesrout -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

'She' isn't gender-neutral. You can't call a male firefighter a 'firewoman', but you can call a female firefighter a 'fireman'.

If you're talking about a woman in particular you certainly don't say 'he'. But if you're talking about a person in general with unspecified gender, it is grammatically correct to refer to him as I have done in this sentence.

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I disagree. I mean, you can do that, it's your right, but you'd be pretty inaccurate.

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

No, you wouldn't. 'Fireman' is a gender-neutral word.

[–]Shaysdays -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I'm sure you feel that way.

Picture a fireman.

Now honestly picture a firefighter.

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Same thing. Firemen are predominantly men anyway, it's an incredibly tough physical job. Few women are built for it.

[–]milesrout -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Generic 'he' absolutely is gender-neutral, much like 'mankind', 'fireman', 'chairman' and 'policeman'.

[–]Shaysdays -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Are you a woman?

[–]milesrout 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Nope.

[–]Shaysdays 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Okay, lady.