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No hope for peace until Hamas is gone (self.Palestine)

submitted by Mintyhalls

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[–]BlackBanners -6 ポイント-5 ポイント

More Zionist propaganda. This is also happening in /r/Islam outta all the subs and all anti-Zionist articles get down-voted to hell on /r/worldnews seriously, what the hell is wrong with Reddit nowadays? Why is everyone pro-Isreal and seem to be okay with what Israel is doing and condemn anyone who fight back? If someone was bombing you for years and taking over your land for years you would fight back for what is rightfully yours. This is also happening on Youtube with pro-Israel comments at the top of nearly every video and even on Instagram you can't post Palestine.com without getting an error message saying it's a banned comment, seriously wtf.

[–]Pardonme23 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Why did Hamas reject the ceasefire?

[–]imgurceo 1 ポイント2 ポイント

http://imeu.org/article/faq-on-failed-effort-to-arrange-ceasefire-between-israel-and-hamas#.U8WKlXzKP6k.facebook

[–]Pardonme23 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Just saw a Hamas spokesperson on CNN. Wolf. Blitzer asked him why didn't you take the ceasefire, go to Cairo and negotiate what you want there? He just gave an answer where he blamed Israel for everything instead of actually answering the fucking question. Hamas would rather blame Israel than do what is necessary to protect Palestinian lives than hammer out the details at the negotiating table. Shameful.

[–]Mintyhalls[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Hamas are not pragmatists. For them it's a full defeat of Israel or nothing.

[–]Pardonme23 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Realistically speaking, how will that happen?

[–]Mintyhalls[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Israel being defeated? Never. Which means the militants will fight forever and ever, all while the people of Gaza and West Bank suffer.

[–]Pardonme23 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

So why are you supporting Hamas then?

[–]Mintyhalls[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Read the opening post.

[–]Pardonme23 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

My mistake. Confused you with another. Carry on.

[–]Pardonme23 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Exactly.

[–]AndyBea -1 ポイント0 ポイント

No, you did not see a Hamas spokesman - you saw one lowly Hamas member that Israel agreed should be allowed to go in front of the camera, in order that the Palestinians be made to look like a bunch of mental cripples.

Mind you, with the shocking suffering they endure on the road to extermination, and Israel's targeted killing of anyone capable of leading the Palestinians, only the mentally crippled are left.

22nd Jan 2007 ... I met Dr. Khalid Dahlan, a psychiatrist who heads one of several children's community health projects in Gaza. He told me about his latest survey. "The statistic I personally find unbearable," he said, "is that 99.4 percent of the children we studied suffer trauma. Once you look at the rates of exposure to trauma, you see why: 99.2 percent of the study group's homes were bombarded; 97.5 percent were exposed to tear gas; 96.6 percent witnessed shootings; 95.8 percent witnessed bombardment and funerals; almost a quarter saw family members injured or killed." Veteran Australian journalist John Pilger at http://www.newstatesman.com/media/2007/01/pilger-genocide-gaza-palestine

[–]AndyBea -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Because the Palestinians in Gaza are all going to die if they don't resist.

Furthermore, if they don't resist, we'll forget that we back their legal and moral right to return to their homes

[–]Mintyhalls[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

More Zionist propaganda.

I'm not a "zionist" and looking back think that Israel is a mistake. Although we're stuck with it now.

Why is everyone pro-Isreal

I like to think of myself as Pro-Israel and Pro-Palestine. I'm someone who shakes his head that these two groups of people simply cannot live together and work things out.

anyone who fight back?

I'm saying that their method of "fighting back" is completely counter-productive and ruins any moral argument they might have and that no progress can be made until they give that up. Firing rockets into Israel is a futile gesture that only results in Israel counter attacks.

If someone was bombing you for years and taking over your land for years you would fight back for what is rightfully yours.

Explain to me exactly how firing rockets into Israel is "fighting back". Explain how a few dead Israelis would improve the situation.

Militancy can't win. It only fuels the conflict AND gives a blank cheque to Israeli hard liners. News of Hamas rockets or other kinds of militancy are likely greeted by cheers of joy among Israeli hard liners and hawks. "Now we have perfect cover for anything we'd do!"

If Palestinians had used only peaceful protests, they would have gotten much more and there would likely be a two state solution already. Violence and terrorism only serve to delegitimize the moral cause of the Palestinians, and bring a harsh Israeli counter response.

And the counter argument: What exactly is Israel to do about the rockets? If they just use Iron Dome, Hamas could bleed them dry economically since Iron Dome and its missiles are very expensive and Hamas rockets are cheap. To date, rockets have killed 65 Israelis in all the years since they started. Can you morally try to justify that? I don't think it's possible. Yes, many thousands of Palestinians have died as well, but it does not work if you say "the enemy is worse so therefore anything we do is legitimized". That is the path to extremism and I reject that. As should Palestinians.

[–]AndyBea 0 ポイント1 ポイント

If Palestinians had used only peaceful protests, they would have gotten much more and there would likely be a two state solution already.

That's a common Zionist fraud. If you doubt that Zionism was not about land-grabbing, have a look at:

"A Historical Survey of Proposals to Transfer Arabs from Palestine 1895 - 1947" by Rabbi Dr. Chaim Simons - chaimsimons@gmail.com - © Copyright 2003 Chaim Simons - Latest Revision: 1 September 2004 at http://chaimsimons.net/transfer.html

The guy lives in Kiryat Arba, right along with racists such David Wilder, Spokesman for the incredibly nasty Hebron settlers, just a few weeks ago:

"... Today’s ‘Palestinian people’ is the biggest PR bluff the world has ever swallowed, invented in part by Haj Amin el-Husseini, a Nazi Jew-hater-killer, and adopted by his successor, Yasir Arafat."

"The world’s acceptance of such a ‘people’ and its denial of Israeli-Jewish rights to our land, is an abject denial of the San Remo Accords, by which Great Britain was mandated to form a ‘national home for the Jewish people’ in a land area, including what is today South Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and the Sinai, of course, including all of Judea and Samaria."

" ... we are not going anywhere. We are here to stay. In all our land. Forever." http://mondoweiss.net/2014/02/arab-appeal-deductible.html

Are you going to insist that the Palestinians were to have any possibility of living in peace? The record shows the precise reverse!