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No hope for peace until Hamas is gone (self.Palestine)

submitted by Mintyhalls

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[–]robshookphoto -15 ポイント-14 ポイント

I don't agree.

Hamas was bolstered in its early days, even founded to a large extent, by Israel:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847

It is part of a divide and conquer scheme.

The closest I can come to agreement is that the rockets (and suicide bombings in the past) are good for Israel (not Israelis - Israel) and bad for Palestinians.

There is no hope for peace until the settlements, the wall, the abuses of human rights are gone. These have nothing to do with Hamas. They have to do with colonization and land theft.

Without Hamas, land theft will continue.

Edit: Further, and more importantly, it is propaganda that makes "Hamas" mean the same thing as "terrorist."

Hamas was elected into government. They have lots of community programs and relatively mainstream views. They also have a radical wing that Israel is claiming represents the entire party.

[–]AlexanderpTheGrape 13 ポイント14 ポイント

Well that's just absurd. It's true that Hamas was elected, but the "radical wing" thing is just crazy, the Hamas charter vows to wipe Israel off the map and drive the Jews from Palestine. That's the charter. Where's the "moderate wing" of Hamas on Palestinian tv or...or anywhere?

[–]timekillah 22 ポイント23 ポイント

A question.

When Israel accepted the cease fire agreement from Egypt why did Hamas continue the attack ?

I mean, it seems like they don't even try to reason the situation , everytime they shoot a rocket to Israel Palestinian blood is on their hands.

[–]robshookphoto -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

Cease fires mean Israelis get to live in a relatively free, democratic state (albeit with crazy military security).

Cease fires don't mean anything resembling an end to violence for Palestinians. They still do not get to leave their country. They still can't assemble or protest without arrests. They still have incursions into their land where their people are killed without accusation, trial, or even explanation.

There is no freedom in Palestine. In the United States, we have unalienable rights written into our founding documents. If those rights are not honored, we have the responsibility to overthrow the tyrannical government oppressing us.

You are saying that Palestinians do not have that right.

[–]AlexanderpTheGrape 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Palestinians absolutely have a right to be independent from a government that they are unhappy with. The difference is that when Americans made that decision, they stipulated that in the future they would "hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends." The Palestinians have over and over again refused to stipulate, in the case of Fatah, that once independent, it will be "friends" with Israel (that is to say, the Israel the Israelis define, and the system of government they established; the Americans didn't demand that England abolish the monarchy to conclude peace, Britain got to be Britain and America could be America) and in the case of Hamas, that they won't make it their raison d'être to annihilate the Jews from "Palestine" and wage an "eternal war against the Zionist entity"

[–]robshookphoto -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

The majority of Palestinians support two states.

That's pretty impressive, for a people who have been systematically forced off their land.

[–]Pardonme23 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Its the Palestinian govt that doesn't give freedom to its own people

[–]robshookphoto 0 ポイント1 ポイント

None of the freedom restrictions I mentioned in that post are committed by the palestinian government.

[–]Pardonme23 4 ポイント5 ポイント

That time when Palestinians hung their own people because they thought they were Israeli spies. Its almost like Hamas are brainwashed islamist extremists...

[–]robshookphoto -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

This is entirely irrelevant.

There is a wall around and through the land. The people cannot leave, they can't visit family, they can't participate in world trade. They can't build on their own land, and it's being continually seized.

Military occupations and land seizures meet resistance. When the military is thousands of feet in the air and unreachable, terrorism is the result.

[–]Pardonme23 2 ポイント3 ポイント

If you lived next to people who ran onto your buses and blowed themselves up, would you build a wall? Yes or no? (If you want to argue, stop being one-sided and look at both perspectives. Its called a neutral perspective, which you need to work on).

[–]robshookphoto -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I'd figure out why they were doing that. And if the answer had something to do with their family members being blown up by my government's military oppression, I would oppose my government.

I watched the towers fall on 9/11. Unlike anybody in power in this crap government, I took Osama at his word. He got the idea from US bombing Beirut - slaughtering civilians where we shouldn't be at all.

Terrorism in the world is primarily the fault of the United States - my country - for bullshit authoritarian use of military. Israel is close behind as a secondary offender.

Oppression must be resisted. People without freedoms have a right to resist. I can't wait for the day that a massive peaceful intifada forces the US, Israeli, and other imperial governments to stop the oppression of the Palestinian people.

[–]Pardonme23 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You're an ideologue. There were peaceful Muslims in the World Trade Towers. Why did they deserve to die? All you want to do is solve violence with more violence. You want to be the victim and the persecutor. Shame on you.

[–]Noxfag -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Good job. Excellently articulated.

[–]robshookphoto -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

I mean, it seems like they don't even try to reason the situation , everytime they shoot a rocket to Israel Palestinian blood is on their hands.

Also, this is absurd propaganda.

The blood of Palestinians who die in bombings is on the hands of those who drop the bombs, and those who make and sell the bombs (US).

Israel claims to be targeting militants. Meanwhile they civilian death toll is 80%. 1/5 are children.

[–]Pardonme23 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Hamas fires rockets knowing there will be retaliation. Why do they keep firing rockets?

[–]garmonboziamilkshake -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

relatively mainstream views.

Hamas' declared intention is to establish a Muslim state in Palestine, permitting Jews, Christians and others to live there, adding

It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region...