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PCSX2 adware/spyware (forums.pcsx2.net)
submitted 2 日 前 by Mintyhalls
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[–]avih -12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント 2 日 前*
You couldn't find partners for flamewars on our forum, so you decided to try new crowds? Good luck.
We're listening to constructive criticism. If you wish to voice some, or wish to see the whole picture, all the info is in this thread and no post has been deleted:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-PCSX2-development-plan-thoughts-contributions
edit - and if you're interested in the "discussion" which preceded this thread (from which the above thread was split), you could find it here:
http://forums.pcsx2.net/Thread-In-latest-progress-report-Dolphin-reaches-full-speed-on-the-Tegra-K1-Jetson
[–]delrothDeveloper 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 1 日 前
Hey, at least he didn't ship a backdoor with his software: http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/960193
TL;DR: SafeGuard (the crappy toolbar PCSX2 ships as the "Recommended" install option) allows any website to run arbitrary code on your computer if you use IE. Vulnerability score 10.0, aka. maximum. Good thing you "were ensured" it's safe! How does it feel to potentially have been the cause of the infection of thousands of computers in the world, that might now be keylogged and/or worse?
[–]avih -11 ポイント-10 ポイント-9 ポイント 1 日 前
Right. And when was the last time you ensured Dolphin users (or any other software project you're part of) that they're completely safe from any negative side effect or bugs?
Do you really want to attack this from the angle that the bundled software had bugs? what do you imply here? that we knew and said "fcku it, we don't care" ?
Try this: compare the number of security issues announced for this bundle compared to any other software you know. By this metric, I'm quite sure (though admittedly didn't check) that this bundle had less bugs than most other software packages out there. (not really, it was just a sample counter claim for the sake of the argument to show how ridiculous your claim is, I don't really know how many bugs each software has).
But this is a moot point. You know as well as we do that we didn't know of this security issue.
Really, right now, your post sounds to me like you're trying to generally discredit the PCSX2 devs.
It might work, but it would work better if you post real proper claims which we're unable to answer. So far we've answered each claim carefully.
[–]delrothDeveloper 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 1 日 前
This toolbar installs ActiveX controls, device drivers (currently REing avgtpx86.sys, which hooks registry and filesystem accesses) and services. Let me repeat: a toobar that installs a device driver. If you haven't noticed that, you haven't done a good job of testing this. You might not have been able to know about this specific issue in advance, but guess what: that's another reason to not take a risk.
I have not ensured Dolphin users are safe from side effect or bugs, but we've ensured that at least we don't insert critical vulnerability issues in their web browser. We ensure that by not installing a toolbar.
No, this bundle does not have less bugs than most other software packages out there. You don't seem to understand what a CVSS score of 10.0 means. It's REALLY bad, as in, if someone visits a website on IE with that toolbar installed, their computer is in control of the website owner. It's a dream for drive-by installs.
I haven't spent a lot of time looking at the driver they bundle, but from my quick glance, it disables some code signature features and does some IO operations on all new devices connected to a computer. Not sure about details yet, but yeah, it sounds BAD. What a surprise! A toolbar that ships with a driver does bad stuff!
You ship this software in your "Recommended" install. You recommend users should install this. You can't get away without taking responsibility for this.
[–]avih -9 ポイント-8 ポイント-7 ポイント 1 日 前
We said already that we didn't know all of this in back then despite our honest attempts to make sure it's not terrible.
Until you guys came over to the forum and started posting, most comments have been positive and understanding.
We're unbundling the AVG toolbar anyway.
How long will you enjoy beating a dead body?
[–]delrothDeveloper 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 日 前
So what exactly did you check if you didn't notice a startup program and a driver being installed by this crapware? Because I'm not sure how to miss that really.
You're obviously much better than us. Good for you.
[–]lefrisbee 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 日 前
Dude, it's not about anyone being better. It's about taking the minimal steps as a responsible developer to not trick users into installing malware.
I used to love PCSX2, and I still keep an old version installed on my computer, but ever since the news about AVG came out, I lost a lot of trust in the developers. As a conscientious PC user, I don't download software from untrusted sources, and the PCSX2 debs have become untrusted through this whole fiasco.
The fact that y'all refuse to take responsibility for an egregious abuse of user trust and total lack of basic diligence in ensuring the security of your bundled software makes me want to stay far away from anything you guys put out.
[–]worldhype 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 日 前
how very mature of you.
[–]RachelBrykDeveloper 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 日 前
No one needs to be assured that dolphin is safe because dolphin is open source, and we don't bundle malware with it.
[–]avih -7 ポイント-6 ポイント-5 ポイント 1 日 前*
May you please point me to all the lines of code you contributed to Dolphin? I'd like to give them a look please.
Also, for the record, I personally think that Dolphin is a great project. I believe other PCSX2 devs think so too, and we've collaborated in the past with Dolphin devs, and they regularly visit our forum and IRC channels. I believe some devs even contributed to both projects.
This it NOT and Dolphin vs PCSX2 flamewars despite what it might look. Actually, it looks more like some Dolphin community members attacking PCSX2 with PCSX2 not attacking Dolphin back even once, but I'll give the general Dolphin community the credit of not being part of it.
I love dolphin. Seriously.
[–]bimdar 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 日 前
Here's the link to all commits https://github.com/dolphin-emu/dolphin/commits?author=RachelBryk she did. Not sure how that's relevant though
[–]RachelBrykDeveloper 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 日 前
https://github.com/dolphin-emu/dolphin
I'm sure you can figure out how to use git.
Actually, it looks more like some Dolphin community members attacking PCSX2 with PCSX2 not attacking back even once
lol
[–]OrthodoxWaffle 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 日 前
Wait, there's a Dolphin vs PCSX2 flamewar? How does that work, they're emulating different hardware, how are they in conflict?
[–]Nezztor 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 日 前
what do you imply here? that we knew and said "fcku it, we don't care" ?
Now I'm just some guy observing forum dramas, but the vibe I'm getting here is a clear strategy of plausible deniability. I don't think you knew. You should have known, and you could have known quite easily, yet you took great care to not know, and to document the process of not knowing.
[–]RachelBrykDeveloper 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 2 日 前
Yes, i also tweeted about it, and posted on /vg/. This is absolutely disgusting and you should feel terrible.
[–]avih -8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 2 日 前
OK, we feel terrible. You win.
[–]Mintyhalls[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 日 前
Somehow I don't feel that your apology is sincere.
PCSX2 team have burned so much goodwill with this thing. You've shown to only be interested in short term profits. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt, that you guys did not know how dangerous the toolbar was. But that still paints the PCSX2 team in such a bad light. And as is typical with humans, you guys don't back down or admit any error.
Removing the toolbar is a step in the right direction, but the PCSX2 team is going to need to do a lot more to get into the good graces of the emulation community.
[–]fluxqubit -10 ポイント-9 ポイント-8 ポイント 1 日 前
The only thing disgusting is your bullshit outrage. You guys have been flaming your self righteous claptrap from the very beginning.
[–]RachelBrykDeveloper 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 日 前
Who is "you guys"? Because i'm not delroth, and i've previously stated that i disagreed with the way he acted at the time.
[–]Mintyhalls[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 日 前
You guys
I'm not a Dolphin dev, nor is JMC47 as far as I know.
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[–]avih -12 ポイント-11 ポイント-10 ポイント
[–]delrothDeveloper 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント
[–]RachelBrykDeveloper 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント