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Are SJ spheres vulnerable to abusers? If so, are they more vulnerable than non-SJ communities? (self.SRSDiscussion)

submitted by CotRA

Recently, I got into an argument with a friend of mine about the prominence of abusers in tumblr social justice spheres. There's been a couple incidents, especially over tumblr, where a.) a popular blog used their position of power in SJ spheres to sexually harass/solicit nudes from others, b.) a popular blog user crossed a line with a call out or inappropriately doxxed someone, and c.) a social justice blogger did something morally wrong and extremely problematic, ranging from sexual harassment to sexual assault. Some of these users seem really prominent in online communities, to the point where a lot of tumblr blogs exist for abuse call out's.

So, after coming across this, I've been thinking about the role SJ plays in online spheres, and the ways in which abusive or manipulative individuals - such as Josh Macedo, Hugo Schwyzer, etc - often make inroads into communities and gain other users' trust. There seem to definitely be abusers in social justice spheres, and many people don't understand the ways in which they enter and operate.

So, do you think this is a particular issue where SJ is more vulnerable to attracting abusers? Is it contextual? Or is it just a situation similar to other communities where abuse appears?

In my opinion, it seems the ways in which marginalized identities are ostracized - i.e. isolation from having to live in a society and culture that rejects queer sexuality, transgender identities, non-white races & color, upholds ableism, ageism, patriarchy, binary sexism, theism - seems to lead to situations where social justice Internet users might be more vulnerable to abusive individuals. It's pretty clear to me that a lot of communities have abusers that target SJ users simply because they are in vulnerable positions.

It also seems like abusers often like to use reblogs, posts, replies, and network building in order to build cred before hurting others, which might make outing abusers extra hard.

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[–]minimuminim [score hidden]

All communities are vulnerable to abuses of power. Abusers use whatever tools they have at their advantage, and sometimes that means they use the rhetoric of social justice, twisted to suit their goals. So, no, I don't think SJ spheres are any more vulnerable than other communities, but that doesn't mean that abusers never pop up. It's important to establish this, and remember that toxic people are toxic people, no matter how they're dressed up.

[–]beefy_miracle [score hidden]

It should be taken into account that leftist communities are much more likely than other types of communities to take issue with abusers and point out abusive tendancies, maybe making the abuse problem seem compatively larger.

[–]minimuminim [score hidden]

Surely SJ communities tend to lean left anyhow. Also, I'm kind of wary of that statement, if only because the tendency to step around abusers is in no way exclusive to people with leftist ideologies. Part of why abuse is so damaging is that it can be easily rationalized or explained away, behaviours encouraged by abusers, and I doubt that there's a causal link between leftist ideology and tendencies to overlook abuse.

Read that wrong, see below.

[–]beefy_miracle [score hidden]

Surely SJ communities tend to lean left anyhow

What? SJ communities are leftist communities.

Also, I'm kind of wary of that statement, if only because the tendency to step around abusers is in no way exclusive to people with leftist ideologies

What what? I was saying that leftists are less likely (but still not perfect obviously) than rightists to step around abusers.

You've mentally reversed every single statement I've made.

[–]minimuminim [score hidden]

Yeah, my bad, I totally did that. Editing previous comment to reflect that.

[–]greenduch [score hidden]

I think its easy for us to "explain away" toxicity and (some levels) of abusiveness. We consider ourselves spaces where marginalized people should be allowed. So we sometimes make allowances and explain away shit that might be abusive, manipulative, or toxic.

And of course, I always love this piece by the wonderful Katherine Cross.

I also think we're absurdly bad at times with lateral kindness. When folks have been abused or oppressed, its understandable we might sometimes lash out. But we sometimes end up with a bit of a bull-in-a-china-shop issue.

Or we intentionally do it because it makes us feel big to heap abuse on others, after having felt so small for so long. Or just because we get our hate-boner on that way, because we think its more fun.

idk, ive written a bunch of :words: about this in the past, but was a while ago and I can't dig it up offhand.

[–]CotRA[S] [score hidden]

Ahh I remember reading that piece. It's one of my favorites and shattered my bubble that SJ was friendly and welcoming as long as you checked your privilege. The truth is it's often not, there's many more ways you can fuck up, down to which specific movements you do/don't align yourself with.

Most of all though,

So we sometimes make allowances and explain away shit that might be abusive, manipulative, or toxic.

I think this is the biggest problem. We normalize it when it happens. Or, rather, abusers manipulate situations in order to make their abuse appear normal.

[–]minimuminim [score hidden]

I also think that we, as a community, could stand to be better at spotting when someone is being toxic.

[–]mildmanneredarmy [score hidden]

I hadn't read that before but it was genuinely interesting. While I may not quite agree with everything, it certainly seems to get at the ambivalence I sometimes have when it comes to things like microaggression blogs.

Good reading, thanks.

[–]BonSequitur [score hidden]

Tumblr is a tangle of young teens' blogs, lots of people who are still learning, still confused about a lot of stuff, and who haven't really built up a real bullshit detector yet. So yes, of course people on Tumblr cross the line between acceptance and gullibility, or between trying not to shame/bully people and buying into utter nonsense (See - the gradient from legitimate social justice struggles to absurdities like the otherkin community). But when it comes to Tumblr I don't think it's SJ communities that are at risk from abusers so much as children and teenagers.

[–]eyucathefefe [score hidden]

A surprisingly dismissive comment for a SRS sub...

still confused about a lot of stuff, and who haven't really built up a real bullshit detector yet.

That is true for most people.

But when it comes to Tumblr I don't think it's SJ communities that are at risk from abusers so much as children and teenagers.

I appreciate the effect that social justice communities have on those children and teenagers. They can be 'damaging' to the community, but the benefits seem to outweigh the risk.