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First go at a Sugar Skull - it's not perfect but it was fun :) (i.imgur.com)

submitted by walkingwalker12Walker Make-Up

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[–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 28 ポイント29 ポイント

Heya - this is really well executed, but I'd like to point you to some articles regarding the issues around wearing sugar skull makeup.

http://aprilseye.tumblr.com/post/11857611160

http://www.blackgirldangerous.org/2013/10/appropriating-dia-de-los-muertos-year/

Many find it very offensive and simple cultural appropriation.

[–]thecotton 13 ポイント14 ポイント

I have trouble taking these articles seriously when they only point out that they disagree with /white/ people doing sugar skull, and that they hate that white people perform this cultural appropriation.

They specifically say 'white privilege' and 'pale face' and 'whiteness'. So I guess it's fortunate I'm not 100% white then, right? Even if I look white, I'm not 100%. I can go ahead and do sugarskull then, because I'm not white, right? Cause, then it's not cultural appropriation. This is what irritates me when people start talking about cultural appropriation. It's the blame game. That's why I think cultural assimilation is a better term, because it makes more sense, and is less accusatory, and I think people can understand that a minority is unhappy with a part of their culture 'assimilating' to the main stream.

Even then, I think the issue is less cultural assimilation, and more the melting pot effect -- which has been going on in the US since its beginning. It started with a lot of the European groups (German, Irish, British, American Indian, etc) and started absorbing Mexican, Chinese, Indian, etc -- y'know, when a more diverse group of people started rollin' in. Then you have to argue is the melting pot effect wrong or not.

[–]flatllamasoflove 19 ポイント20 ポイント

Hey guys, this should not be downvoted -- the post was respectful and brought up important info that I didn't know until I saw a similar comment on a similar post months ago on this sub. Down voting is not for disagreement or trying to bury something that makes you uncomfortable with your choices.

[–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Down voting is not for trying to bury something that makes you uncomfortable with your choices.

re-emphasising this part.

[–][deleted]

[deleted]

    [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 5 ポイント6 ポイント

    It is relevant to the post though! The artistry is impeccable, as I said, but that doesn't diminish the fact that it could be very insulting.

    [–][deleted]

    [deleted]

      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      Absolutely. I think it's very important to be aware of when you are offending people's heritage.

      [–]your_mom_is_availabl -1 ポイント0 ポイント

      Yes, but it is for off-topic material. Some might just not think that discussions of cultural appropriations are not relevant to a make-up sub.

      [–]xplodingminds 8 ポイント9 ポイント

      Y'know, this word gets thrown around a lot on tumblr, usually by people who have no link to the culture in question, or people who are basically saying that cultural segregation should be a thing, but all Mexicans I know don't give a shit unless the person in question is using it offensively (making it a joke, etc).

      Most people are happy when people take enough of an interest in their culture to adopt it, or try to learn more about it. I love it when people ask me about my country's traditions.

      Cultures have been mixing for centuries; that's how we create acceptance and grow. This whole Social Justice "cultural appropriation" shtick is far too reminiscent of segregation.

      [–]waspsalanderMUA 8 ポイント9 ポイント

      I'm a mexican and I do care about this type of appropriation. It is offensive. Now you know one who does.

      [–]xplodingminds 5 ポイント6 ポイント

      And what, pray tell, is so offensive about it? OP could be Mexican, therefore not "appropriating" anything. She could be very familiar with Mexican culture, and this could be her way of using it in an artistic way. She's not making fun of anything.

      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

      Jesus Christ, this is so condescending. You don't get to tell the victims of racism what they are allowed to be offended about.

      [–]xplodingminds 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      Being interested and participating in a different culture is "racist" now? What? That doesn't even make sense!

      Being offended because someone with a different skin color/nationality is interested in your country's tradition is pretty racist, though. Last time I checked, Apartheid isn't a thing anymore.

      Also, "victim of racism"? Asking for a reason why cultures shouldn't be allowed to mix anymore (despite that being a thing since forever. Didn't philosophy basically start because different cultures mingled?) isn't racist.

      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      Taking important parts of someone's culture without understanding them and using them because you think they are pretty is a crappy thing to do.

      [–]irregodless 4 ポイント5 ポイント

      I think the point that they're trying to make is that you can't tell what culture that person is under that makeup, you're just assuming they're not Mexican.

      Or what about someone like me, who is white but grew up celebrating Dia De Los Muertos because of where I lived as a child?

      Plus, there's a difference between a culture, and an artistic style representative of a culture, just as there's a difference between parody and tribute.

      It's easy to be offended outright, but look at the number of assumptive leaps that you had to make to get there. You can feel whatever you want, but someone else is just as entitled to think about things from other angles that you might not have considered and attempt to engage a dialog. By shutting that out, you shut out understanding.

      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

      I did look through her other pictures to confirm that she wasn't Mexican (admittedly she could have just been white passing).

      Anyway, she has responded saying essentially that she meant no harm. While it's no apology to the Mexicans offended in this thread, she's admitting guilt.

      [–]irregodless 3 ポイント4 ポイント

      Guilt is kind of a strong word for it, though, isn't it? My point of jumping to conclusions still stands.

      I feel like the best solution to all situations like this is instead of shaming folks for being curious about other cultures, we use it to explain the history of something to people who might not know it. I also think it's incredibly important to never take things out of context- that's where things get messy.

      [–]aghostlydame -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

      Wowwww

      [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

      Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right [edit: or, rather, have a valid reason to be offended], though.

      [–]DancingHeelCruelty-free :) 7 ポイント8 ポイント

      I just wanted to make a note that you really can't tell someone if they have the right to be offended - we all have different life experiences, and it's impossible to know at first glance how something might affect someone. This is a good time to discuss intent vs. impact. I'm going to give OP benefit of the doubt, here - I'm sure her intent was not to make fun of a culture or a spiritual holiday. But that doesn't mean it didn't have an impact on someone from that culture, or someone who celebrates Dia de los Muertos. When someone is offended, even by someone with good intentions, it's important to learn from one another. Instead of blaming someone for getting offended and "derailing the conversation," maybe take a few minutes to listen and reflect.

      I'm a white girl with a decent amount of privilege, and there's no reason to apologize for my life experience. But it is important to recognize privilege when you have it. It's all about learning from one another, really.

      [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

      Sure, people can be offended as much as they like in a quiet little corner somewhere as far as I'm concerned, but they shouldn't stop other people from expressing themselves because of it.

      [–]flatllamasoflove 1 ポイント2 ポイント

      You do realize YOU are asking them to stop expressing themselves just because it makes you feel uncomfortable, right?

      [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim -1 ポイント0 ポイント

      I meant expressing themselves as in trying out an artform, not complaining about something on a web forum. An again, you can go ahead and do it, but don't stop other people from enjoying new things.

      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 0 ポイント1 ポイント

      This is so ignorant.

      [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 3 ポイント4 ポイント

      Are you Mexican? Because if you aren't, telling her she has no valid reason to be offended is pretty offensive, to me.

      [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim 2 ポイント3 ポイント

      Why do I have to be of certain ethnic backround to have an opinion of something? I just find it annoying, that as soon as someone cries out "I'M OFFENDED!", it deems any argument from the other side completely invalid. Maybe the answer is to just grow a bit thicker skin and share the joys of your culture like they should be shared? I'm not (as a Finn) running with a pitchfork after every non-Finnish person who, god forbid, likes to relax in a sauna once in a while. We invented it, people! It's ours!

      [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 5 ポイント6 ポイント

      Because if you were of the culture we are discussing, you'd have some context? I don't really see most Finnish Americans (I can speak to what the Finnish experience is, because I've never been there.) encountering a ton of racism in their daily lives. While Mexicans, on the other hand, face tremendous amounts of racism from the government, institutions and people of this country.

      As a person of color, what appropriation feels like to me, is another way of white people stealing from us. You can insult who we are as people, demean our cultures, take our land, but then take the pretty parts of our cultures and keep them for yourselves, and completely bankrupt them of any connection they have to us as people.

      And then tell us to grow a thicker skin, to learn that we don't deserve to have our own, separate space from people that aren't from our cultures? How insulting.

      [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim 2 ポイント3 ポイント

      How can you ever eradicate racism, if you feel even admiring a minority's culture is "stealing" from them? It's like you're savouring the historical wrongings and segregation and keeping them alive by allowing no other ethnicity touch your culture. Shouldn't now, when the world has more or less come to its senses and gave up on segregation, be the time to embrace each other's quirks, oddities and wonders?
      (Also, I said I'm a Finn, not an American. There's more to the world than just USA. Check your privilege!!!!1!!1!angryface)

      [–][deleted]

      [deleted]

        [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 2 ポイント3 ポイント

        No, I am not saying they want to adopt the good parts of the culture, I am saying they'd like to steal what is beautiful, physically. I am Ojibwe. White folks love to get dreamcatcher tattoos, which have real meaning to my culture, as we invented them. Do these girls know what a dreamcatcher is actually for, or the way to properly make or hold one? Do hipster girls that wear war bonnets know what a man had to do to get one? Or how demeaning it is to native people to see a naked woman wear one at Coachchella?

        I wish the cultural transfer you preach could actually adopt some worldviews from my society that might help society. Like the idea that all plants and animals have value equal to humans, or that we should replace resources we extract from the earth.

        If being American means that I have to sell off what white people think is valuable, and then see them abuse it, I am very happy that I am a part of a soverign, Anishinaabe nation.

        [–][deleted]

        [deleted]

          [–]nympheas 0 ポイント1 ポイント

          Can you please try to sound less condescending? I find it really disturbing that there is so much hostility arising when someone is trying to share their feelings with you. Why does it make you feel angry when someone tells you they are offended? Maybe instead of telling people how you should feel, you should try to listen to their experiences and learn from them. Everyone comes from different backgrounds and has privileges. The only way we can overcome that is to be open and learn from each other.

          [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 7 ポイント8 ポイント

          It's awesome that no Mexicans you know care, but the fact is that there are many who do.

          The second part of your answer is great too - that's not cultural appropriation, in my understanding of it. Appropriation occurs when the person doesn't ask or learn about your culture but still, for example, wears a Native American headdress because they think it looks cute. Learning and respecting each others culture isn't appropriation!

          [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim 2 ポイント3 ポイント

          Cultures have been mixing for centuries; that's how we create acceptance and grow. This whole Social Justice "cultural appropriation" shtick is far too reminiscent of segregation.

          Right. The shtick of cultural appropriation - "keep Dia de los Muertos Mexican!!" - is far more racist than the "cultural appropriation" - "this make up is beautiful, I want to try it!" - itself. Do people not realise that, for example, we wouldn't have rock music, if white people didn't borrow from blues and soul? Is listening to The Beatles cultural appropriation?
          It's not like people wearing Dia de los Muertos -styled make up are expressing negative, or any, stereotypes of Mexican people. That's where you could point out racism and actually make sense.

          [–]nympheas 1 ポイント2 ポイント

          I think the problem here is that adopting aspects of blues music is not really a common ground to taking spiritual rituals and using them out of context.

          Would you understand why a Christian might be offended if an atheist did a makeup look of how to look like Jesus because she thought it would be creative? I hope that doesn't come off as combative, I am just trying to bring some common understanding here.

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

          No, they are just taking what they will from an important tradition that Mexican people practice, and turning it into something for makeup or fashion, absent of any cultural relevance.

          Also, how is saying "Keep Dia de los Muertos Mexican" racist? Racism comes from power and privilege. Wanting to preserve your cultural traditions isn't racist, it's smart. I doubt they'd like white folks to turn it into another Cinco de Mayo.

          [–]deadgwenbonanzafoundation shade: Drowning Victim 2 ポイント3 ポイント

          Racism comes from power and privilege.

          What does this even mean? I'm pretty sure racism is forbidding someone from doing something just because of what ethnicity they are.

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

          What it means is that racism = prejudice + power. Reverse racism doesn't exist because oppressed peoples lack the power in the equation. Your definition is very narrow, and lacks a discussion about power.

          [–]FreshFreyPies -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

          Racism: prejudice or discrimination based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

          Institutional Racism: any kind of system of inequality based on race (ie. prejudice + power)

          Attempting to conflate the two vastly oversimplifies a complex issue and does an injustice to victims of both.

          [–]xplodingminds 3 ポイント4 ポイント

          No, racism is "Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior". I know you SJWs like changing definitions, but racism is not "power + privilege". Discrimination against someone based on skin color is not suddenly less important because that person is white and not, for example, Mexican.

          Wanting to preserve your cultural traditions isn't racist, it's smart

          No one's saying that it should be changed. It's not because "white folks" are interested and want to participate, that the original tradition is suddenly ruined. Also, only "white folks"? This is what I dislike the most about this new SJ movement: all white people are lumped together, and everyone with a different skin color than white are lumped together.

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -1 ポイント0 ポイント

          When you study cultural studies in America, obviously white people are going to be singled out from everyone else. Almost all wealth and power in this nation is in the hands of white people. How could you avoid that in cultural studies or social justice?

          [–]RampagingKittens 2 ポイント3 ポイント

          Racism comes from power and privilege

          This is a fundamental misunderstanding. No, it comes from people simply believing in stereotypes and then casting it as negative. That's the literal definition of racism. Anyone is capable of that regardless of your skin colour. You've demonstrated your racist predelicitions in this thread already by how often you've said something like "white people do this" "white girls do that." I don't care what your skin colour is, but you have clearly demonstrated at least mild racism toward white people in this thread. Just because you might not be in a position of power at the moment doesn't mean you aren't racist. You clearly have a thing against white people and that is still racism. Are you going to tell me next that men are never victims of sex crimes because they are the ones who generally commit them, too? Jesus christ.

          "Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races."

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

          Can you give me some sources for that which have any current relevance? Because every mainstream cultural studies conversation in academia at the moment is rooted in the definition I gave.

          [–]RampagingKittens 5 ポイント6 ポイント

          Uh, the dictionary?

          How is racism a malleable term that's up for debate? It's like minorities want the definition to contain 'power' so that they can excuse themselves from being considered racist when they do, in fact, hold racist beliefs. It sounds all too convenient. The idea that only people with privilege can be any kind of -ist is not even logical.

          Because every mainstream cultural studies conversation in academia at the moment is rooted in the definition I gave

          With all due respect, cultural studies in itself is biased toward minorities which does mean they are more likely to manipulate things to their convenience and favour. And on top of that, they aren't the governing body on the definition of racism. As far as that word goes, its definition is fairly immutable given how simple the definition is (prejudice based on a colour of skin). Oh, and for fun facts, I am a minority in both skin colour and power where I live.

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -1 ポイント0 ポイント

          It's all a big minority conspiracy, amirite?

          [–]RampagingKittens 0 ポイント1 ポイント

          That's a dismissive comment meant to make you sound more right than you actually are. But it's weak and irrational on your part.

          [–]your_mom_is_availabl 10 ポイント11 ポイント

          Reddiquette:

          If you think it does not contribute to the subreddit it is posted in or is off-topic in a particular community, downvote it.

          I downvoted (your comment) because this is a make-up sub. I don't see how a discussion of cultural appropriation "adds to the discussion." (Not that it isn't an important discussion to have -- I personally just don't think that it belongs here.)

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 13 ポイント14 ポイント

          It's adds to the discussion because the OP might not know that doing your makeup like this is considered very offensive to many people. I would like to be informed when I am doing something that might hurt other people.

          [–]your_mom_is_availabl 3 ポイント4 ポイント

          Sure, understood. I know that not everyone agrees with me, and that's OK.

          I guess, to add -- in the past when people have got into discussing cultural appropriation of "candy skull" make-up, the conversation has become vitriolic and attracted negative attention to this sub from the rest of Reddit. To me, it's not worth it.

          [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 2 ポイント3 ポイント

          The solution to that isn't silencing the conversation about appropriation, it's hopefully having people stop doing makeup that the community finds unacceptable. If someone posted a photo a perfect blackface look, hopefully the nature of the post would outweigh the merits of the makeup.

          [–]aghostlydame -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

          Up vote.

          [–][deleted]

          [deleted]

            [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 3 ポイント4 ポイント

            We are discussing the makeup, that's the entire root of this conversation.

            [–][deleted]

            [deleted]

              [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 1 ポイント2 ポイント

              I don't believe it's a stretch at all. Many people, including myself, believe that someone doing their makeup like this without any frame of cultural relevance or connection is very inappropriate. Making another thread would fail to bring the OP's attention the matter.

              [–][deleted]

              [deleted]

                [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                Sorry, when I see someone being racist, or appropriating someone else's culture, I speak up against it, no matter where, or what setting I am in. People of color and consciousness have a responsibility, when we'd like to see our communities become a better place.

                [–]RampagingKittens 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                when I see someone being racist

                You have actively disparaged white people in some of your other posts. You are racist.

                [–]flatllamasoflove 8 ポイント9 ポイント

                Cultural appropriation through makeup is absolutely a discussion that deserves it's place in a makeup forum, especially within a post that demonstrates exactly that. The problem with saying that this discussion doesn't belong here is that there is no /r/culturalappropriation -- and even if it did exist, the message would be preaching to the choir, and not reaching the people it needed to reach.

                Edit: apparently it does exist and is private -- didn't show up in my searches prior to posting!

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                I don't believe it's off-topic, as it is about the makeup - just because it isn't praise for it (although it is impeccably artistically as I said), doesn't mean it is off-topic. However, use your downvotes in whichever way you like, haha.

                [–]acousticbruiseson a quest for pink lipppie that doesn't look like candy coating 11 ポイント12 ポイント

                I'm getting pretty sick of this fad of calling "cultural appropriation," realistically you can argue that eating regional recipes is appropriation. Play another country's traditional sport? Cultural appropriation! I could argue that English as a language is one giant hodge podge of appropriation.

                Edit: All those holidays we love, Halloween for instance, is also cultural appropriation.

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK 19 ポイント20 ポイント

                Calling a cultural ritual used to honor dead relatives 'fun' is pretty much the definition of appropriation. Read the links. As a white person, my views don't count for much in this area but the links are from people who celebrate Dia de Los Muertos.

                Also, http://mycultureisnotatrend.tumblr.com/post/781005138/on-reverse-cultural-appropriation

                [–]acousticbruiseson a quest for pink lipppie that doesn't look like candy coating 8 ポイント9 ポイント

                "Christmas is that special time of year where people of ALL religions come together to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ!"-Bart Simpson

                Lots of holidays have been appropriated, that's just the nature of the world as it seeks to understand and integrate other people and cultures. Pagan holidays are a major victim of appropriation, for instance.

                [–]bralbasaur 4 ポイント5 ポイント

                There is a huge difference between colonization, where a group of people were forced by the dominant group to assimilate to their culture (in your example, where people of color were forced by white colonizers to accept Christianity), and cultural appropriation, where the dominant group takes aspects of the minority group's culture to benefit itself while simultaneously shaming members of the minority group for taking part in those same things. The joke in the quote you posted is that people of all religions do so because they have been pressured by the dominant/capitalist culture.

                It isn't cultural appropriation for people of color to speak English, because white people literally murdered, raped, and otherwise forced my people into speaking English. Even today, when people try to speak their native languages at work or in public settings, they are reprimanded, punished, or shamed for not speaking English (for example, like this case, where a group of nurses were fired for not speaking English. Not everyone is lucky enough to be able to sue their employers or deal with the assholes on the subway etc.).

                I understand where you are coming from but you are comparing two very different situations and it's not a fair or even logical comparison to make.

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                You said what I tried to say but far more eloquently. Thank you.

                [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                I hope you understand the harm that cultural appropriation causes to people. Especially things that turn long-held traditions, many of which used to be illegal to practice, into simple fashion statements.

                It's really easy, when you are a part of the majority culture, to dismiss when people think you are doing something wrong. That's privilege.

                And now you guys are downvoting me? This is my favorite community on Reddit, I'm really disappointed by the lack of willingness to learn here. As an American Indian woman, I'd only hope that other people would stand up for my culture if people were doing Tiger Lily makeup. No one deserves to have their culture exploited.

                [–]walkingwalker12Walker Make-Up[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント

                I probably should have just called this a 'creative skull' - as that's how I see it, and did not want to involve any of these issues.

                [–]youwhoyouhoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                Even if you did that someone would jump on you for the obvious sugar skull imagery. Recognizing your inspiration is more respectful than hiding it I'd say. I doubt anyone on this subreddit would contest that makeup can be an art form, or at least a sophisticated craft.

                People complain about cultural appropriation when sacred things are adopted merely "for fun." And while you enjoy you your work, I sincerely doubt you do just "just for fun." From the work you put into this it looks like you spend a lot of time thinking about and practicing a skill that's important to you (makeup). If you had practiced your drawing by drawing a sugar skull I'm sure way less people would call it offensive. Somehow though once you put it on your face you skill/craft/art is downgraded to "just for fun," and I don't think that's fair.

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

                Being aware of these issues and taking steps to avoid them is great. This is amazing art, by the way. Sorry this whole shitstorm has erupted - was trying to be respectful but people tend to fly off the handle about things like this.

                [–]mocha__ 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                a Mexican holiday celebrated throughout Mexico and around the world in other cultures. The holiday focuses on gatherings of family and friends to pray for and remember friends and family members who have died.

                This holiday is celebrated all around the world, not just Mexico. It's a day of celebrating and honoring dead loved ones. Linking to things like blogs and tumblr posts isn't actually learning about this culture or understanding it at all. It's extremely disrespectful to call "APPROPRIATION" and not actually learn anything about it before doing so.

                Just because you read it on some blog or tumblr doesn't mean you know what you're talking about. I could post on any blog or tumblr that spinach is pink, that doesn't make it pink.

                The Day of the Dead celebrations in Mexico can be traced back to a pre-Columbian past. Rituals celebrating the deaths of ancestors had been observed by these civilizations perhaps for as long as 2,500–3,000 years. In the pre-Hispanic era skulls were commonly kept as trophies and displayed during the rituals to symbolize death and rebirth.

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

                It does say 'celebrated...around the world'. I have read numerous articles on the subject and so thought I had an understanding of it, but if you are Mexican then would you possibly mind educating me a little more on the matter? Where have I gone wrong?

                And of course, but I linked to those two articles because they were very clear and succinct in summarising the issues around it.

                [–]mocha__ 2 ポイント3 ポイント

                I'm not Mexican, but as a POC myself I find it annoying when I see the cultural appropriation stuff and it never seems to be the actual culture that calls it out, but a bunch of SJWs on tumblr. And while I am not anti-social justice, I am against the hate that pours from those people. I am part Portuguese and while it is celebrated in my culture, it is a bit different so I definitely cannot speak for how they do it in Mexico.

                My thing here is that you shouldn't just take what someone says, you should go out and read up on actual sources, talk to people of this culture, etc. Don't just read blogs. Culture is a fascinating thing and it should be embraced and understood by all who try to defend it. Obviously I'm not promoting making fun of a culture, I don't feel like wearing sugar skull makeup is offensive and while others might, it doesn't mean everyone feels the same. There used to be a time when it was okay to explore other cultures, we shared with other humans and now we're pushing that under the rug with things like this and the whole "Don't eat Sushi / Chinese food / Mexican food, it's appropriating culture." No, it's experiencing another culture.

                And blah blah blah, this got really winded, sorry. I just hate when I see someone checking out another culture and being told they're wrong for it.

                [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                Fair enough! As a white person I was trying not to be like 'I AM WHITE AND THIS IS HOW I FEEL LISTEN TO ME' but rather linking to PoC's experiences.

                And haha that's true! Very few Mexicans where I live, though. Also, I don't think anybody seriously says eating another culture's food is appropriative!

                It's fine. It just made me feel kinda uncomfortable, even as a white person, to see someone describing a sacred tradition as 'fun'.

                [–][deleted]

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                  [–]flatllamasoflove -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                  In an alternate universe: Please consider choosing a makeup look that does not turn a minority's culture into a pop culture commodity the next time you post to /r/makeupaddiction. After centuries of racism and hatred, now is the time to learn about the pain that makeup like this still inflicts, not take it from another culture. What you did comes across as self-centered, but I hope it was innocent ignorance, and everyone is willing to learn from this and move forward. The cultures that have been appropriated over and over again on /r/MakeupAddiction deserve some respect.

                  [–][deleted]

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                    [–]flatllamasoflove 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                    Of course this discussion could exist in another thread -- and perhaps it should as well. However, no one is disrespecting the OP, at least no one I am up voting. OP posted a racially and culturally charged image -- respect does not entail letting the post stand without repercussions or discussion just so she doesn't have to ponder those repercussions. I sincerely want everyone involved to understand that posting something like this is disrespectful to other, disadvantaged cultures, and I believe this can be done in the spirit of education, without stooping to name calling or ad hominem attacks.

                    [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

                    On Tuesday, I'll start a thread about makeup and cultural appropriation, and hopefully it won't get downvoted into oblivion.

                    [–]30rockettePalettes, not Pallets, People! 1 ポイント2 ポイント

                    http://www.reddit.com/r/MakeupAddiction/search?q=cultural+appropriation&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all

                    Just so you know, we've had the discussion here in the past and it has been upvoted more than downvoted.

                    [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

                    If you look at the votes for the threads there speaking out about appropriation in this community, you can see that is not true, at all. The main one there has 400 votes, 320 downvotes, and 80 upvotes.

                    [–]30rockettePalettes, not Pallets, People! 0 ポイント1 ポイント

                    I was going off of the percentage, which said 60% upvoted on the 'Can we stop' thread.

                    I honestly don't have a horse in this race. I just figured I'd link a quick search to some past discussions in case people wanted to read them and/or did not know that this has been a debated topic around here in the past!

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                      [–]millcitymissNC30/A Bold Lip -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                      You are pretty much the person stirring the pot here, so I don't know how you are blaming me? I replied to your original comment because you were lying.

                      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

                      omg this is perfect

                      [–]Screend -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                      Out of interest, in the comments in this thread I keep seeing you say 'many', can you statistically prove how many care, please.

                      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

                      I don't have statistics. But the sheer amount of articles and people commenting on how it offends them shows that there are definitely people who it offends. I care more about not being racist than not hurting people's feelings who don't get to do their pretty makeup without being educated on how it can be offensive.

                      [–]Screend -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                      Woah, I didn't mean to push buttons, it was a genuine question. To be honest, as a caucasian woman from the UK I don't feel it's my place to speak accurately on this whole thing at all, but I was wondering if there was any statistical information to go alongside content written. No worries.

                      [–]youngmakeupaddictmod of /r/MakeupAddictionUK -1 ポイント0 ポイント

                      I am also a white girl from the UK - I feel a bit odd talking about this with my levels of privilege, but nobody else was saying anything and I don't seem to have offended anyone.

                      Sorry to be so snappy - took your comment in a snarky tone!