I experienced something incredibly unpleasant today.
The blog Humans of New York, which I have loved ever since I moved to New York City, blocked me from commenting on a post and deleted my comments.
Why?
I told the truth. I feel like Huey Freeman.
I was not hateful, or ignorant, or abusive.
I simply commented on a post about a (white) man, a teacher in the neighborhood of Harlem, that spoke about how difficult it is for the students to extract themselves from poverty because there is not a “culture of expectation” at home.
Nearly all of the comments were patting him on the back as a hero and great guy, but I thought differently. I commented, “A ‘culture of expectation’ is hard when you are in a ‘culture of I work 16 hours a day.’” I also stated that though his heart was in the right place, his ideology is implicitly racist, and would fall under the umbrella of cultural racism.
Someone then responded to me that I was unnecessarily “playing the race card” because there are also poor white children and because this man did not openly express anti-black or anti-people-of-color sentiments. The commenter then told me that she did not mean “to dismiss racism in any way.”
Super comforting, lady.
I let her know that someone who is not dismissive of racism would not use the term “playing the race card,” as it implies that in most cases, racism should be dismissed. I let her know that I was very aware that there are poor people who are white, but I also let her know that to be white and poor and to be black and poor, in this country, are two very different things. I let her know that the latter is actually much worse; black people live in a level of poverty that only one percent of white people are even exposed to. I told her I had links to the statistics and studies if she wanted them.
I let her know the truth of the matter, and I was silenced for it. I cannot begin to express my outrage at this.
Commenters were having trouble understanding my argument. They wanted to know how I got a racial argument from what he said, and said I was “ridiculous” for thinking that this was in any way racialized.
Really guys?
Harlem is well-known as a neighborhood containing project housing as well as mostly people of color (many of whom are black). You’d think that these “Humans of New York” would recognize demographics in long-standing neighborhoods of New York.
But there’s more to it than that.
People were finding it difficult to understand coded language, that is, that one doesn’t have to say “I don’t like black people” in order for their philosophies to be racist. This lack of understanding speaks greatly to the ongoing, and insightful discussion The Atlantic’s Ta-Nehisi Coates has been having over the past few weeks with author Jonathan Chait.
This man is probably not a racist, but his philosophy, that the parents are to blame for the children’s lack of success, is shortsighted. It ignores that many of these parents work grueling hours and sometimes multiple jobs, not leaving very much time or energy to invest in their children’s education. It ignores the systematic and structural racism that leaves many of the families in these circumstances black or people of color, who are by and large economically disadvantaged. It assumes that the parents just don’t care about their children’s education, that they don’t value it.
This philosophy, if you ascribe to it, ignores the real problems at hand, mainly, that racism in this day and age is often subconscious and implicit; you may have to think critically about it, rather than just seeing a black body hanging from a tree and understanding that it’s wrong.
There is a larger structural problem hanging over the heads of African Americans like a stormy cloud, and yet, even though society keeps that cloud over our heads, they still blame us for our wet clothes.
I often read anti-racist activist Tim Wise, and he speaks often about how, psychologically speaking, white people are more likely to change their minds about this and other forms of racism if it is decoded and then given to them by a white person. It is for this reason I applaud and appreciate white activists like Tim Wise, because I don’t care who is changing the minds and preaching the truth, as long as it’s happening.
After the Suey Park Twitter Fiasco, I am aware that social media is not the best arena for a discussion of important topics. But make no mistake, it is a problem that we only take things at face value. It is a problem we would rather praise the white savior mentality, and ignore that this teacher blames the kids’ parents for their lack of “cultural expectations” due to their poverty, which is no fault of their own.
By silencing a naysayer, Humans of New York establishes their position by perpetuating that these parents really are just culturally lazy and do not care about their children’s education, an idea and philosophy that I find much more hateful and damaging than myself pointing out the facts of why those parents may not be able to be as involved in their kids’ schoolwork, which exposes a larger, systematic problem with our society.
I find it morally repugnant and deplorable that my voice, an educated and reasonable one, was silenced for telling the truth. I find it disgusting that if I had not challenged the status quo, if I had not challenged a white man on a blog run by another white man, if I had simply praised him for the good without criticizing the problematic, my comments would most certainly still remain.
I am sad to say that I will no longer follow Humans of New York.
I can only hope that in the future, they do not silence educated, non-hateful voices in lieu of uneducated and hateful conjecture, or worse, blind acceptance of a situation without thinking critically about it.
Edit [April 24]: I encourage conversation, but I ask that you please only comment if you actually read this piece. Most of the comments below involve people who clearly did not read it at all, which is fine (obviously you don’t have to read it), but why comment and accuse me of things I have not done and accuse me of not addressing something I have absolutely addressed? Why not come to the discussion fully understanding my position, rather than guessing, assuming, and making me repeat things you could have understood had you read the post in the first place? I am a graduate student, so I am nothing if not thorough and knowledgable on these issues.
I will leave you with a wonderful quote from this blog in which the author sums up white people’s relationship to racism and it’s recognition:
Privilege not only causes white people to miss instances of racism but it causes them to think they get to set the terms or parameters for what constitutes racism as well. For example; situations that can universally be understood as racist like a blatant hate crime, are “in bounds.” But anything that’s not as obvious is dismissed and those who attempt to shed light on less obvious forms of racism get accused of race baiting or, my personal favorite, playing the race card. Which essentially means that if it’s not obviously racist to a white person then it’s not racist.
Follow this blog @chocopompcirc on the Twitter!
Reblogged this on The NOLA-Nobles Perspective and commented:
“I find it morally repugnant and deplorable that my voice, an educated and reasonable one, was silenced for telling the truth. I find it disgusting that if I had not challenged the status quo, if I had not challenged a white man on a blog run by another white man, if I had simply praised him for the good without criticizing the problematic, my comments would most certainly still remain.
I am sad to say that I will no longer follow Humans of New York.”
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if you do not let others participate such as
Gregory A. Butler and
Pharaohess Fabienne who will ever take you on a serious level Robert West
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Your comments should have been applauded not thrown away, great article.. Unfortunately racism has so many stigmas attached.. I wish the conversation could be about people, especially in this socio-economic group, who also happen to black.. unfortunately the american way disadvantages those at the bottom, and yes it is inherently structural racism.. if only a high tide did rise all boats
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Here’s why HONY’s admins banned your comments. It’s because they were deemed to be attacking the subject.
https://www.facebook.com/humansofnewyork/posts/660980717309365
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Tori,
Despite Brandon’s assertion, pointing out implicit or accidental racism is *not* an attack. Racism is alive and well, and HONY should work to be more sensitive. Instead of banning the author, they should have apologized for the insensitivity and engaged in a productive dialogue.
Racism is very real, very alive, and the subconscious biases held towards people of color have a daily negative impact.
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Streever: THIS. The HONY response, not unlike several of the commenters here, grossly mischaracterises the nature of CP&C’s dissent. It is not an ad hominem attack on the subject. It is a critique of society. If anything, I think it is more directed at the other commenters on the page as a reflection of the general national discourse surrounding the issues of poverty, education, and yes, race. It doesn’t really matter what the teacher’s specific nuanced belief is, or what Brandon’s specific beliefs are. CP&C is merely pointing out that what this guy chose to focus on (the lack of an apparent “culture of expectation at home”) and the self-congratulatory tone and moral high-horsing of the flood of responses serves to perpetuate (again, regardless of intent) negative ideas about poverty and inequality in our country that blame the victims of society and ignore the root causes of these problems, and that (and this is important) our implicit ideas about race have a lot to do with why this reasoning flourishes in the first place (even when race is not explicitly stated). This, to me, is a productive conversation worth having, not a personal attack on anyone, and certainly nothing worthy of being censored. I have seen way worse things going on in the comment sections of those posts. And if HONY is of the position that any kind of critical discussion stemming from their posts is too divisive to be seen on their page, then they are admitting that their platform is merely a giant circle-jerk masquerading as sociological insight.
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Thanks Tori Lee for clarifying that. I just commented there.
“Is this a recent change in policy? Because I have seen lots of vitriolic comments posted here commenting on subjects. And I know of only one commenter who was banned, apparently because she was pointing out in a civil way that something the subject said was unconsciously racist. In my opinion, not a good place to start banning comments.”
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If this is the case, then why did they immediately delete my comment? It was a very polite comment and was not directed toward any one person. (You can read it below if you’re interested.)
Also, if this is the case, then why didn’t they delete the overtly racist comments posted a few days later where a white commenter told a black commenter to “go back to Africa?” When I reported this comment as hate speech, facebook deemed it appropriate to keep according to their “community standards” policies as well.
I think our priorities are pretty skewed here if it’s somehow more offensive to merely point out that racism and privilege exist than it is to use actual hate speech.
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You seem to have a lot of insight on the subject, so I must ask- are you a teacher in Harlem ? The man in the HONY post most likely deals with his children’s parents on a daily basis and he would know far more than you as to reason why there appears to be a lack of motivating their children. Both you and the man in the post are generalizing, I’m sure there are parents with a lot of reasons or restrictions. What HONY is meant for is to share the people idea’s that Brandon comes in contact with. You do not have the right to judge him on opinion, nor does anyone have a right to judge you on your repaonse. However, your opinion on the topic was not asked for, and your repsone was judging him- and it’s that negative attitude that got you banned rightly so. You have the right to your opinion and you have the right to share it (as you have here) but you should not to attack someone directly through a third party that probhibits judgment and negativity.
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Rachel,
Are you seriously asking a black woman if she more insight into the lives of black people than a white guy from a good college who recently started teaching in the inner-city?
Also, it isn’t an attack to point out implicit racism.
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She doesn’t know the kids and parents he works with every day. Also i fail to see how being of a certain race would mean she knows them better. Not all black people are the same, just like any color of people are not going to be all the same. Also all of his students are probably not the same color either. It is hard to have a culture of expectation when both parents work all the time, it does create a cycle of poverty, and it effects all races of humans. In the mid west there are schools with this very problem effecting white Hispanic and black families. The teacher is right but the lack of expectation is a symptom of the underlying problem of poverty and working so hard for so little
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So, is your point that it’s OK to not talk about the underlying problem of racism, poverty, and discrimination, and instead just say, “It’s the parents fault”? That is what you’re saying, and it seems a little messed up to me.
Black people should just let that one roll by and not be upset? Really?
Do working moms in a low-income neighborhood really need a relatively wealthy young white man to show up and tell them that they suck at being moms? Is that in any way helpful? Does that in any way challenge the widespread racist stereotype that racism is solely the fault of black people?
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No i am not saying or implying any of that, i am saying that the teacher in the original quote is right that the lack of expectation or maybe low expectation continues a cycle, it’s not about race, its about poverty, and the fault is with our capitalist culture which some how creates all these jobs in which one can work more than full time and still not make enough money to get by. It is impossible for parents to be involved when both work 16 hours 6 days a week. It is also a fact that parents involvement in education of their children has an effect pin positive outcomes for the child. Conundrum maybe, unfair totally, its not necessarily any one person’s fault
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So, in your clarification, you say it has *nothing* to do with race, and everything to do with capitalism?
Do you think that people are color-blind/post-racial? They absolutely aren’t, but it seems like my fellow white people wish we all were. I wish we were too! I’m sure most black people wish we were post-racial too. We aren’t.
Why do you think cops shot and nearly killed an innocent black man who was a star baseball player shortly after they beat his mother? Because we’re post racial?
Why do you think that two men of equivalent experience and education can apply for a job, and the white man is more likely than the black man to get the job, UNLESS the white man is a former felon, in which case they have an even chance?
Why do black men caught with marijuana go to jail for so much longer than white men?
Why don’t we change the law that penalizes crack cocaine so much more harshly than regular cocaine? Here’s a hint: because demographically, white people do cocaine and black people are more likely to do crack.
Seriously, racism is incredibly deep and embedded, so much so that we’re mostly blind to it if we’re white.
When black people talk about racism, we need to listen, instead of criticizing them and questioning their legitimacy. You said what does she know about black families in the inner city; well, a social worker posted here earlier to say she is right and the white affluent teacher is wrong.
Are you genuinely surprised that a white man from a good school would not be as sympathetic and understanding and culturally sensitive as he should be when dealing with absolute poverty, and more importantly, the poverty of minorities?
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I think he is sympathetic, I’m not saying racism doesn’t exist, i understand there are unfair laws. I am saying that race does not solely determine poverty, and the real issue in this school district is poverty. I know a lot of successful black people. The teacher is talking about the cycle of poverty. I am not blind to racism, i just don’t think the teacher was commenting on race. I think that was brought on to it because the school he works in happens to be predominately black students. But this cycle effects all people in poverty, whatever their skin color. I am fully aware that racism is still a very big problem in our country.
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I also did not say”black families in inner city” i said that he knows the students and families he works with every day on a personal level better than someone who has never met those students.
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I know you didn’t say black families in the inner city; I did, because that’s the issue here.
He (and most commentators) are ignoring that those are the people he’s talking about. He isn’t talking about ‘poor people’; that neighborhood is 98% black per the US Census. 98%!
So, while hypothetically there are a few other minorities and maybe even some white kids, he *is* talking about black kids. He may not mean to be offensive, or racist, but when we repeat a negative stereotype about a minority we are actually being racist.
Not scary evil racist; no one is calling him a monster! Over and over, we’ve been saying that he’s probably a well-intentioned person who works hard to help people.
I would call myself a good person, but I hold stereotypical views too; it does make me a bit racist as well, and when I express those views, I’m *glad* that people of color call me out on them, so I can apologize and try to do better.
That is all he (and HONY) had to do; say we’re sorry and try to do better and be more sensitive. I don’t think there is a solution to this that involves white people continuing to be insensitive to the concerns of people of color. No matter how good our intentions are, it is likely that we’re in the wrong if we’re hurting people.
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IMO it is not even about “sorry” – we all carry our socializations around with us. It’s about understanding and acknowledging the dynamics – ongoing process. The conversation is the thing. IMO.
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Hony just quoted him, and i think he was talking about his students, most of them may happen to be black, but he was talking about students. He was not saying any of this is because they are black
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“He was not saying any of this is because they are black”
Well, that’s what you think; I’m not quite willing to assume that, however, because his students ARE black (nearly 100% of them), and the EXACT phrase he used is widely used by people who YOU’D call racist.
I don’t think that you or I as white people have the authority to tell black people that they can’t be offended by his comment. Do you think the author of this blog is stupid, or less intelligent than you? Do you think she is less aware of racism than you are?
I guarantee you that she is far more aware of racism than you or I EVER will be. I guarantee you she is incredibly intelligent; have you read her other articles? She’s incredibly intelligent and a very deep thinker.
There is nothing in her resume to suggest that she’s a worse judge of racism than you are; as such, I think you and I should listen to her and hear her and try to see where she is coming from, instead of patronize her and lecture her that she was wrong.
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I agree with her comment on hony that it is hard to have a culture of expectation when you work 16 hours a day. I agree with most of her article. But i also think that on a personal level with the students He teaches every day, the teacher will know those specific people better. Was he saying what he said with a racial undertone? It’s impossible to know. If he worked in a mainly Hispanic district, or a school with mostly white kids in the same type of impoverished situation, he could say the exact same thing with truth.
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You could TRUTHFULLY say that the problem that hispanics face is a bad culture?
That’s TRUTH? I’m sorry, are you an expert in the culture of hispanics?
How many hispanics do you know? How many black people do you know? I don’t know a single parent of color who doesn’t have high expectations for their children. What part of “that isn’t true” means it’s A-OK to say and not at all racist?
Do you understand the word ‘implicit’? It means EXACTLY what you’re saying; implicit racism is when someone DOES NOT MEAN to invoke race, but ARE invoking race.
When you talk about black people, and you don’t say black people, and you use a stereotype, IT IS IMPLICIT RACISM.
I’m sorry to get frustrated with you, but I feel like I’m talking to someone who doesn’t also speak English! Implicit means exactly what you are describing, so why are you denying the actual definition of the word?
You’re being racist. You don’t mean to, and I’m sure you don’t FEEL racist, but when you’re willing to accept that a man who teaches 115 kids a day KNOWS that none of their parents give a damn if they pass or fail in school, you’re saying you’re racist; it makes sense to you that this guy knows what goes on in 115 homes and can trace it back to parents that DON’T CARE?
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You could truly say that a culture of no expectation effects any family in poverty and continues the cycle of poverty. Its not black culture that has no expectation, it is parents who had no expectations on then and who don’t expect that their child will get any farther than they have
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Did you do doctoral work on the expectations of low-income families?
If so, can you show your original research? Most experts in that field call what you’re talking about a myth and a stereotype.
Reaching and Teaching Students in Poverty: Strategies for Erasing the Opportunity Gap (Multicultural Education)
Engaging Students with Poverty in Mind: Practical Strategies for Raising Achievement
Many experts on poverty and education believe that the teacher *can* make a difference, and that what holds back these kids in most schools is OUT OF TOUCH educators who do not know how and are not trained in how to engage the kids.
The educators often times come from affluent white backgrounds and hold implicit racist views like yours.
If this wasn’t racist, we’d hear it about more white families. We don’t. Why is that? Because, it’s a racist stereotype used to justify the dominant culture (white) and the way that it operates. It creates a problem too large for anyone to work on individually, and exonerates and turns into heroes the hard-working white teachers who can’t possibly prevail over the parents because the parents are undermining the white saviors work.
I appreciate this conversation. I’m sorry that I’m getting frustrated; I don’t mean to be mean to you. I hope that is clear. It is just that when I see someone opining that poor people just don’t know how to raise their kids, it makes me a little bit frustrated, because there are literally thousands of pages of peer-reviewed work that shows the opposite.
I highly suggest reading either of the books I linked above, or at least looking at the studies and peer-reviewed work that they reviewed in writing their books; I believe it could really blow your mind (in a very good way).
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One of my good friends is a teacher in the Midwest. Her class size is nearing 40, inn an elementary school, she makes a difference everyday, but could say the exact same thing this teacher said. Some of her students don’t have a single thing to read at home except a cereal box, their parents don’t read well and don’t expect their kids to read well, they both work all the time and barely make enough to get by. Its a culture of no expectation, a lot of those kids will end up in gangs,or will live adult lives just like they’re parents, not all of them maybe, but I’m sure at least half, and you know what most of her students are not black. I’m saying that a culture of no expectations is a problem that continues the cycle of poverty,and that it is not exclusive one race or another.
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I’m not saying every poor family is like that, and I’m not saying that it means they don’t love their kids. I’m saying that i believe this is what the teacher was commenting on and that hony shouldn’t need to apologize for quoting him
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The problem at your friends school is that her class size is way too big. http://www.classsizematters.org/research-and-links/#research on CSRP
HONY isn’t talking about white kids. Just because you don’t understand why the school system is failing white kids in the midwest *doesn’t* make the HONY post racist. Quoting someone saying a racist stereotype is still racist, if you aren’t providing context and nuance.
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Racism is really very difficult for me to see and confusing for me, and easy to mix up with other things. Thanks Streever, for continuing to clear up what, for me, are very hazy and confusing distinctions. It is important to be clear about this.
I am very appreciative that this burden does not have to be carried every single moment by those already hurt by racism. It is my duty as a white man to learn this stuff and help other whites learn it. My black friends have had enough trouble–and don’t deserve the annoyance of not only having all the obstacles in their way, but then also having to try to show them to me and explain what is going on to still ignorant people like me. White people need to do the work to learn together, not expect those already burdened to carry the burden also of our continuing ignorance.
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Rachel, do you really expect a teacher to have an intimate and nuanced understanding of the home lives of hundreds of individual students? I can’t say that my teachers were ever in my home everyday. If you’re really looking for a reliable source, I would encourage you to read Diane’s comments from a few days ago (above). She’s a social worker, whose actual job it is to assess the home lives of these kids, and she said that this post was spot-on. If you want to get in a pissing contest over whose insight you find most valid.
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Don’t you think that saying as a woman of color you “challenged a white man on a site ran by another white man ” is racist? You are bringing people’s race into the conversation- that right there is racism. Your comments were not deleted because you are black, they were deleted because they were judgmental.
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Rae, that doesn’t actually meet the definition of racism. Mentioning racism doesn’t make you a racist; many people are implicitly or even accidentally racist. Pointing it out for them is not racist.
“prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one’s own race is superior.”
Did the author of this blog *ever* suggest that she thinks white people are *inferior*? Did she ever discriminate against them, in any way, in her comments?
No. The person she is responding to made a generalized statement about children of color in an economically depressed neighborhood. That statement absolutely deserves to be challenged, as there is no independent data or proof of his *feelings*. The teacher *feels* that black families have lower expectations than white families. That, as such, is racist.
EVEN WERE IT TRUE in general, it isn’t true 100% of the time, and it would STILL BE RACIST to share such a negative stereotype of a black family.
“Antagonism” is definitely present when you say that black students are failing because their families don’t have any expectations for them. Do you honestly think that statement ISN’T antagonistic?
The original post was racist. This author pointed that out. In return, she was banned. She isn’t the one ‘bringing race into it’–that is what the teacher did. She just pointed out the unintentional racism that is clearly invisible to so many of my fellow white people in his statement.
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The thing is, Rae, this is racism:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/05/supreme-court-police-cant-brutalize-your-elderly-mother-or-shoot-you-when-youre-unarmed/361934/
This stuff *does not happen* to those of us who are white. I’ve mouthed off to multiple police officers when they were in the wrong; I have never been shot for it.
If I was black, I *absolutely* believe I would have been shot, although I did nothing wrong, and the officer was 100% wrong in each case.
That is racism. Black people speaking up about racism? Dude, we got law enforcement KILLING them because of widespread stereotypes about black people and criminal behavior.
The type of stereotype expressed on HONY (EVEN WERE IT TRUE) contributes to events like the police shooting innocent black men. As a society, we widely expect black men to be criminals, black mothers to be absent and uninvolved, and black society in general to be bad.
That type of thinking leads to actual hurts and wrongs. Black people speaking up about it DOES NOT.
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You replied to someone on these comments saying you were looking for HONY to allow for a more productive discourse. If nothing else is accomplished than at least you opened up the window for this discussion on this blog. Thank you for putting the situation into a more clear context, the weight of your original point is certainly reaching out to people.
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Feel free to keep your opinions to yourself. You don’t always have to express everything you think if it’s hurtful to someone else or not the right place to express it.
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I agree about holding back comments that may be hurtful or may not aid in learning.
Maybe let’s keep talking, though. Because there is a lot to learn. People commenting here are maybe helping to lead something important to the world at large. To me, this entire conversation is a very important one because it may help all of us to understand important systemic issues better.
It is maybe not an exaggeration to say that the future of the human race may depend on our ability to start to see clearly…processes that currently are unconscious and structural–like racism. Many of the most pressing issues facing humans today IMO require structural solutions–they require that cultural programming be changed and the momentum of inherited belief, habit, and institution give way to higher awareness on a large scale.
If this sequence shows anything, it is that all of us are blind to our own assumptions and beliefs. And that discourse like this is the way to get out of that trap–by helping and being helped by others who see the part of the puzzle I am missing.
For racism in particular, IMO, many of us white people do not seem to be able to see it at all, or understand what it is or how it operates. IMO, many very intelligent posts by intelligent people here have completely missed the point. I have been studying racism a long time, but as a white man, it is still difficult for me to understand it.
Thanks for the help–all of you out there.
Keep it coming.
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Shivpema – um, take your own advice? Just a thought.
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i do agree that the problem of racially determined poverty in the US is clearly a symptom of our cultural structure. it’s appalling to even think about — which we all should, regardless. i don’t agree that the man in the photo necessarily disagrees with this as well. a small portion of his conversation was quoted and he very well may have said some the exact things that the author did. he was speaking about the symptom of the issue; i don’t think we should all assume that he doesn’t understand the larger issue as well. yes, it would have been beneficial for all if the quote was about the issue itself, but it wasn’t.
my point is, making assumptions like this and coming down on somebody for them doesn’t allow people to fully absorb this argument. if the author gave him this man the benefit of the doubt, it would have given her better moral ground. and in the spirit of the conversation started by this post, i think it’s beneficial for all if we try to frame our arguments in a more solid manner.
for the HONY blocking issue: that’s a shame and i’m glad this is being discussed. though, i don’t think we should be surprised that a facebook comment thread (hosted by somebody who is clearly mindful of his PR) doesn’t make for the most sound platform of provocative conversation. it’s a risk he’s not willing to take. wrong as he is, i’m not very shocked…. though, i didn’t read the actual thread so i have no way of knowing what really happened.
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So a minority woman should show deference and take the high road when she sees a bunch of liberal whites slapping each other on the back while they share a racist view?
There is no academic agreement that the man’s comment is right. While poverty does negatively impact many people, there are loads of studies which show that properly trained teachers *CAN* have a strong impact.
The basic idea expressed on HONY *was* racist. I am grateful to this author for speaking out, and I think that more white folks need to stop defending racism. So what if it was unintentional? It is still racist and it is still hurtful.
If I stomped on your foot, Douglas, by accident, what should I say when you point it out? “Oh, no, I didn’t step on your foot; your foot was in my way.”
No. I should say I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to do that, and I feel awful that I did.
That is what HONY should have done. I think it is a bit low to criticize this blogger for pointing out racism while simultaneously defending HONY for refusing to engage a minority who is talking about racism.
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you clearly didn’t read my comment with an open mind. i’m saying that the quote chosen for the picture doesn’t show the full story; it references a symptom and not the issue that the author of this blog is discussing. they’re two different things and i think it’s important to understand that when looking at this case specifically.
there’s no defense of hony, just an observation that i’m not surprised by his response. i even said that what he did was wrong… we shouldn’t be surprised
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it’s also funny that this comment exchange itself is a great example of how we shouldn’t expect social media threads to be good places for these conversations. i think we’re both making valid points, but on different nuances of the same conversation. but with comment boards, it just looks like we’re doing nothing but fighting against each other.
to both of us, if we both care, we should be talking about this with people in a room, not at a keyboard.
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Douglas,
I liked your comments and agree that in person is important for topics like this.
At the same time, this blog is also helpful and important to me. I have been, over the past days, re-reading and rethinking. Learning and changing my mind requires no little introspection, and since some of these ideas are new to me and/or are confusing or finer, more subtle points that are not immediately visible to white guys like me, I think the blog perhaps more important to me for that deeper self-examination.
I do not know if Streever answered you with an open mind, I am not Streever and can only see his behavior–not his motivations. Here is what it looks like to me.
I see Streever continually taking it back to the real topic, I see many others getting distracted into other interesting topics, but straying from what this is about at the *root* for me.
Here is an example of what I mean:
Let’s say someone buried some poison in my garden where I grow some food. Streever is saying–”this is how you find the poison in your garden, Frank, and this is how you get it out.” Many people on this blog are saying something else like:
–There is no poison in *my* garden, so what is your problem?, or,
–Grow blueberries–they will not pick up as much poison, or,
–Poison is good for you, just deal with it, or,
–There are worse poisons than the one they buried in your garden, etc.
All the comments I have read have truth in them. But I am not reading them to find out who is *right*. I am reading to learn about my own racism and how to repair it.
Thanks.
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I just wanted to drop a note saying I truly enjoyed reading this article. I found it very interesting and insightful. The comments, however, have been a mix. I am not going to counter/bash/reply to any particular comment. I am, however, going to make the observation that (while the original author post did an excellent job of not doing this), a lot of people are making assumptions about the original quoter.
For reference, here is the original HONY post: http://www.humansofnewyork.com/post/82390781702/i-teach-fourth-grade-in-harlem-whats-your (apologies to the author for posting a link here, as I know she is trying to boycott the site itself).
My personal takeaway: He didn’t inherently mean to make a racist comment (though I have no way of really knowing). There is nothing about the “elite” college he supposedly attended. He is clearly invested in the welfare and success of his students. Unfortunately, however, his comment WAS hurtful. Could he have worded it better? Yes, definitely, and hopefully it was just poor wording on his choice and not meant to (intentionally or unintentionally) be a racist statement. This is a country where many stereotypes and preconceptions abound, making it hard for every word someone says to be completely and utterly politically correct. I give this man props for trying and props for caring.
The real issue at large is the fact that the author’s comment was censored. Drawing attention to these sorts of racist remarks is important. While not overtly racist (i.e. – refusing work or longer prison sentence), it is still important to recognize that comments like his are hurtful and oftentimes based upon preconceived notions regarding race (though I like to think that he just cares about the success of his students and would have said the same thing regardless of the racial makeup of his classroom).
Just to clarify, I am half white. I have watched my father (Chinese-American) experience the negative effects of racism my whole life (he spent ten years working at a job where people constantly complained about “[Asian] foreigners” taking their jobs and making smelly food). However, since I pass as white, I have rarely if ever experienced anything negative as a result of my race. Thus, I am less aware of and/or sensitive to topics surrounding institutionalized racism, so I apologize ahead of time if I seem ignorant – mostly because for all practical purposes, I am.
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Nicely said. For me the point is not beating up on people or blaming people. It is understanding the assumptions and inertia that support institutional racism. Can’t change if you are not willing to look at your own stuff. So the point is the discovery not bashing people.
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Yeah- as an educator, I kind of think that the author of this blog has taken the original quote out of the context for which the teacher probably meant. Family expectations and views of the importance of education are key the success of most students- yes, race and poverty are linked however important racism is as an issue it’s not the only issue!
I guess I always think of my experience teaching in the UK. I taught at two schools, one predominantly white and one predominantly children of Muslim Bengali immigrants. Both groups were of a similar socio-economic level (ie. financially very disadvantaged.) The children at the school in London faced all sorts of racism where the white kids did not and yet the kids in London despite all of the racism and poverty they faced came from families that valued education and wanted/expected their children to do well at school. This culture of wanting their kids to succeed had a huge impact on the students success. The white kids, despite having lots of racial privillige did not generally come from homes with a culture of expectation of educational success- and as a result generally didn’t do so well.
This experience really shaped my opinion of the importance of family support in the success of students.
Of course I am willing to acknowledge that issues like racism can play a huge part in why families don’t value education in the first place. Ie. the curriculum of most schools i’ve taught at has been predominantly white and middle class. Also parents views of school are shaped by their own experiences with it. So if they experience racism and crappy schools then why would they think school would help their kids?
Educators often talk about the importance of home life when it comes to student success- because they deal with it daily! Maybe when some do they are speaking with racist attitudes, but I’m sure that when many teachers say this it is out of pure frustration because they care about their students and want to see them do well at school. However, they also see that their home lives are hindering success rather than encouraging it!
There are lots of parents who are really struggling to support their children, and this may mean in somewhere like the USA (with a disgusting minimum wage and crappy social welfare system) that these parents aren’t able to support their children as much as they would like. I doubt very much that these were the families that the teacher was picturing when he made the comment, but I also doubt very much he was talking (even implicitly) about race –
vit’s just that when he talks about students, you know most of his students are students of colour. I’d say a similar thing about many of the white families at the horrible school in the UK and then give an example of positive family support by talking about the school in London. Racism is a huge issue in education, as is fostering a culture of expectation of success- but they are not the same issue.
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Two points.
First, whether you agree on the interpretation of the post or not it certainly was legitimate to raise the point not as slander but for discussion and no reason to be “banned”.
Second, I disagree with you. Teachers understandably have a tendency to blame parents just as parents have an understandable tendency to blame teachers. But it is still wrong. Whether it is framed as “culture of low expectations”, “white trash” or “ghetto” it is still a wrong and inadequate understanding of the social context (including the teacher’s socialization) and worse it is dysfunctional. You cannot ally with the parents if you are busy castigating them, however politely. Also, you like many assume that we all agree on the definition of “success”. I assure you we do not. And if the teacher is blithely assuming that he knows best, that is dysfunctional. Yes I know the whole social deal is a difficult mess of class, race, poverty – but seeing how the “white” culture and middle-class blinders of teachers and school systems are equally a part of the mess is essential.
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Thank you for such a well articulated argument on racism. Yes, it’s unfortunate that white people throw-up their defenses when someone, especially a minority, talks truth to power.
Thank you for having the courage to respond and NOT throw this under the rug.
It’s funny, when minorities respond the response (and excuse) to block or censor them is that they “are attacking a white person”—yet white people have yet to come to terms with how minorities are attacked, dehumanized, humiliated, exploited, and disregarded by the system and the people who make such ignorant statements about race and economics. Instead of analyzing their white privilege and their economic effects, they look to define “the other”: as the saying states: it’s easier to blame someone else than to look at yourself!
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I appreciated reading your post. It deepened my understanding of racism. I posted a comment in support of you on HONY’s fb page along with a link to this article. My comment was deleted immediately and without any response at all. Before it was deleted, I noticed that several people clicked “like” on it. I’m sorry that HONY has chosen to respond to this important dialogue by silencing people.
Here is what I wrote to them:
“I was SO loving this page until I saw this blog [link to your blog article was here]. Critical discussion about race and racism should not be silenced. I hope you will reconsider your choice to ban a person for their attempt to address racism in all of its forms, even the seemingly-subtle forms that can be difficult to discuss without people feeling hurt.
If you are going to ban people for discussing race, then you must ban all discussions of race, not just the ones that make some white people feel uncomfortable. Don’t post pictures and content that invites discussion on race and then arbitrarily silence the voices of people of color! That perpetuates privilege and is incredibly offensive!
I have loved your page for the diversity and raw humanity that you present. I hope you will do the right thing: Issue a public apology to this blogger and to your audience at large. Listen with your heart open to what she has to say. Thank you.”
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Thank you so much for your support!!! I’m so disappointed in how HONY chose to respond :( but again, I really appreciate your kind words and support ❤️
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Fantastic article. I outright disagreed with you for the first few paragraphs, but I think this is only serves to reinforce your point. A lack of cultural expectation is more a symptom of the problem than a cause.
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He’s saying that there’s a culture of no expectation. You’re saying that the culture is a result of racism. There’s nothing wrong with that as one doesn’t exclude the other and you’re probably right. Calling his ideology implicitly racist is a major assumption on your part ( in my eyes ) and basically “an attack on the subject” Although I don’t agree with the deletion of comments I understand it as a business strategy. Because that what HONY is, a business.
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I think I’m agreeing with the above comment. I havent seen the exact HONY caption but if all he stated is what you wrote ( how difficult it is for the students to extract themselves from poverty because there is not a “culture of expectation” at home) then I don’t see the implicit racism. It seems like you agree that there is no culture of expectation because, for example, many of these parents are working 16 hour days. How do you know that isn’t what he thinks too? That these parents are just working way too hard, and they have been way too oppressed for way too long, and that has created the lack of a culture of expectation. You don’t know what he thinks either way, because you can’t extract a person’s personal philosophy from a HONY caption. He was walking down the street, got stopped and put on the spot with a series of questions from a stranger, which the stranger then selectively paraphrased into a caption for a facebook page. Give it a rest.
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This is ridiculous. I’ve also been blocked. I don’t even remember making any obnoxious comment. This Brandon guy needs to get off his high horse. Ignorant cunt.
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“someone who is not dismissive of racism would not use the term “playing the race card,” as it implies that in most cases, racism should be dismissed.” That statement is not logical.
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Thanks for this article! I cited a lot of your good points over my tumblr http://debatisms.tumblr.com/post/90545735399/the-perception-of-sexism-and-racism and linked this article to the post. I can’t find your real name/penname anywhere, though, so I just cited you as the name of your blog (CP&C) and twitter handle. Please let me know if you want that changed!
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Hello there – thanks for your comment. My blog name is fine to quote me as. I’ve updated (improved) this piece for a collection on Medium. I’d encourage you to look at the updated version!
https://chocolatepompandcircumstance.wordpress.com/2014/06/10/im-on-medium/
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Oh, okay. :) I’ll try to update my sourcing as well. Thanks again.
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I see this whole conversation as an opportunity for me to learn about racism. Some people here are asking–”is there any other possible explanation for some of this behavior than racism?” Maybe there is–but I think it misses the most important point and the opportunity. Yes, I cannot know every circumstance and philosophy of the many others referred to here. But this is an opportunity for me to examine my own circumstances and philosophy and level of awareness. For me, it is about *that*, deepening self-awareness and self-improvement. Not splitting hairs about who to blame for something I watched from a distance, but looking closely (with help of others) at something that includes me–racism–I am either helping or hurting that awareness. Which is it today?
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