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19-year-old Kendall Jones, a Texas Tech cheerleader, poses with a young lion she's just killed on a canned hunting safari in Africa. (i.imgur.com)

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[–]Lord_Blackthorn 33 ポイント34 ポイント

She is on a designated wildlife refuge designed for this. They have people pay gobs of money to put down their weak,sick, already dying animals and it helps fund the place to support more animals. Also if the population of one animal is getting out of control and could compromise the ecosystem (like too many Lions but not enough food for them) then they may put one down to balance the system and allow it to grow at a stable and controlled pace.

[–]nicholasethan 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I wish more people could comprehend this. I mean, sure its fucked up that this girl gets her kicks from killing sick, dying animals and in some cases the animals literally just "sit there and take it" and then calls herself a "hunter"... but from all the articles I've been able to find about her, she isn't doing anything particularly harmful. In some cases the animals do seem like they were healthy; however, population control is a thing as you said.

The thing that pisses off me and probably a lot of people the most about her though is that she's doing it for the fun... its a hobby to her. She seems to call it hunting, but she's basically paying to walk up and shoot an animal, and trying to get famous out of this. I guess the money/meat benefits a lot of people and that's great, but I'll never understand the people that enjoy this kind of thing.

[–]Cageweek 0 ポイント1 ポイント

We don't know the context of this, so saying she's not a hunter would be pretty silly. Where I live there are many girls who hunt alone in the woods.

[–]nicholasethan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yeah, I'm not trying to say that girls can't be hunters or anything. I'm not a hunter so maybe I'm not qualified to say, I just have a hard time calling some of what she does "hunting" since many of them are supposedly sick and/or dying, or don't even care that you're at point-blank range.

Either way though, I can accept that what she does is necessary. It just creeps me out that people enjoy it.

[–]babylon_dude[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント

I hope better, more educated Redditors will point all the half-truths in what you just wrote, however, what's much closer to the truth is that this majestic lion was likely perfectly healthy and was raised just so some ignorant, rich fool could come along and shoot it to make big bucks for it's owners. That is not any form of 'conservancy' I'd ever want to be a part of in my lifetime and I can only hope canned hunts for exotic, endangered animal will be made illegal soon.

[–]kevie3drinks 17 ポイント18 ポイント

Well yeah, it's too bad for the lion. But the money from these hunting safaris go towards stopping poachers, so rich people go over there, and kill an animal for 5 to 10 thousand dollars, then pay the customs fees to ship the body back over to the states for taxidermy, which is also very expensive, and the wildlife refuges get the money to improve their parks and help preserve the wild animals.

Teddy Roosevelt killed thousands of animals in his lifetime, he was also responsible for creating the idea of environmental conservation, if it weren't for hunters like that we would have no national parks, no national forests, and many animals would by now be extinct.

It's this spirit that experienced hunters practice. They have respect for the animals they kill.

Then there are the poachers who kill for money. It's very difficult to prevent, and very expensive.

[–]Clyde82 11 ポイント12 ポイント

This is the exact point people don't understand.

Also a lot of the meat goes to local tribes

[–]kevie3drinks 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Just to add, I know nothing about this girl, but apparently she is an experienced avid hunter and that is her life. Anyone I know that is that dedicated to hunting is more in touch with nature and animals than many of the people crying foul, who possibly have never seen these animals outside of a zoo, or the sunrise on the Serengeti.

It's as if she were instead an old bearded man she would have more credibility, but because the media has deemed her some Texas Tech cheerleader they assume she's some heartless bimbo.

Edit: Thanks for the Gold, I was running dangerously low!

[–]EpicFishFingers 0 ポイント1 ポイント

No matter who she is, anyone posing next to a dead lion would meet controversy.

If everything said here is true, why isn't she doing a better job of saying it herself. I've only seen her mention it once, but she should really spend some time to clear up her name if she really cares so much about these animals as people are making out

[–]kevie3drinks -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Yeah I wonder what her Facebook page says now.

[–]lenaxia 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Same message. She's been posting photos for a few years now and I've seen her pop up now and again. This is only the most recent iteration.

My main problem is that her messaging sucks. For all we know she truly does believe in conservation and that shes doing the right thing. She's doing a horrible job of conveying that then.

I volunteer at a museum and we have several leopard and lion pelts that were confiscated from illegal poachers trying to smuggle into the US. We use these to educate people about poaching and about animals. The fact that her messaging is primarily about her trophy kills and barely even tertiarily about conservation is what irks me. It glorifies trophy killing and only serves to increase demand for black market goods like poached pelts.

[–]CrackpotPatriot 1 ポイント2 ポイント

As much as I can't stand images like this and I agree that it sends a negative image, it's actually not her job to appease the masses.

[–]lenaxia [score hidden]

Nope its not her job I agree. But its her who is claiming it. If you read through her facebook she claims several times that she wants to spread the message of conservation and wildlife protection. Her words.

She's doing a shitty ass job of doing that and that's what I'm taking issue with. Her half asses efforts to spread conservation messaging demonstrate she doesn't actually care about it and is all talk. Actually hardly any talk.

But maybe she just sucks at it right? Well then her rich ass dad paying for these safaris is wasting money on her Marketing degree at Texas tech.

[–]CrackpotPatriot 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Maybe because she knows her intent; as much as I can't stand images like this, it's actually not her job to appease the masses.

[–]swoledier -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

they assume she's some heartless bimbo.

It's not an inaccurate assumption.

[–]Soltan_Gris -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I'm an experienced and avid phantom pooper. It is my life. You can't judge or complain!

[–]miss_marty_mew 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Why not raise money by having people going to stay on the safari and observe the lions? Why must they kill them? I would pay to go out and watch the lions do whatever it is lions do.

[–]kevie3drinks 2 ポイント3 ポイント

They will take your money weather or not you kill a lion.There are also many preservation funds you can donate to.

[–]KelRen 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Agreed. I'm in no way anti-hunting, nor am I a "vegan, left-wing PETA person" but trophy hunting really turns my stomach. Here's the original article, if you're interested: http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/tree-graft.jpg I'm doubting there's any viable reason these animals were killed. I'd much rather spend money on a safari, observing the animals than letting rich people go slaughter them for sport.

[–]llieaay -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Is slaughtering animals for fun really that much different ethically than slaughtering animals for pleasure? In developed countries, we don't need animals to thrive, so why should slaughtering for one sort of pleasure be any different than another?

[–]KelRen 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm assuming by "pleasure" you mean for "sustenance". That's not a bad argument, but I don't see any proof that this trophy hunter is utilizing the meat from the kills, and even if she (and other trophy hunters) are, why shoot endangered species? Are American deer not "challenging" enough? Why pay all that money to hunt these animals in Africa? I understand it's their money and they can spend it how they please but this just seems like "Hey, you know what would be cooler than a regular swimming pool? One filled with rhino blood!" Yeah, it's your money, but where does excessive "luxury" end and excessive wealth become an excuse to do unethical things like slaughter already struggling species for sport?

[–]llieaay -1 ポイント0 ポイント

You would be killing for sustenance if you didn't have a perfectly viable option that did not require killing. Since humans can thrive on vegan food, you are killing for preference. Not for food. If the animal's life matters, then it's pretty immaterial whether we eat the animal after killing him. Neither of us really think eating the lion would change the morality of this situation -- unless there is no other source of sustenance.

"Hey, you know what would be cooler than a regular swimming pool? One filled with rhino blood!"

I could turn this around. "Hey know what would be better than plant foods -- the flesh of an animal! I want to eat something someone had to die for!"

If you think that killing a deer is really better than killing this lion, then I have to think that means you aren't concerned with this creature as an individual, their experiences or whether he or she wanted to continue living. You perhaps like that more species exist. I mean, this hunt was even set up in a way that it's not really endangering the species more. So, I guess I don't know what that means.

Another general comment is that I see people who eat "normal" meat from a grocery store condemn hunting. People who hunt condemn the far crueler lives and mass slaughter on factory farms. No one wants to look at what they are doing - so for all this condemning what other people do, no animals actually end up better off.

[–]lenaxia 4 ポイント5 ポイント

If you think that killing a deer is really better than killing this lion, then I have to think that means you aren't concerned with this creature as an individual, their experiences or whether he or she wanted to continue living.

Speaking for myself, you're right. I don't care that one individual lives more than another. What I care about is the survival of a population. Killing predators has a much greater impact on their populations because they are much higher in the food chain.

On the other hand killing ungulates like antelope could garner the same amount of meat but at a much smaller impact to the population because they are primary consumers (versus secondary/tertiary consumers that predators are)

So it begs the question: Why kill a threatened, high food chain predator, when killing a non-threatened, low food chain animal can provide the same amount of meat if its just for sustinence?

Kill all the cows you want, they aren't threatened. Lions are. That's the difference.

Here's what I'm talking about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_pyramid.

[–]dragon_nipples 0 ポイント1 ポイント

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwkjvZjclf8

watch this whole documentary. This explains how these preserves are the only reasons some animals are alive.

[–]miss_marty_mew -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Exactly!!!

[–]dragon_nipples 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Its more like 250k for a wild hunt and 50k for a game preserve hunt. IDK what she paid.

[–]kevie3drinks 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yeah. It might depend on the animal.

[–]Formula2 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Roosevelt also wouldn't kill a bear that was tied up for him to shoot, hence the phrase "Teddy Bear." You think there was any sort of challenge or "sport" in this kill? Please, there was probably zero chance for that lion to survive.

[–]retiredknight -1 ポイント0 ポイント

You think there was any sort of challenge or "sport" in this kill?

Yes. I'd say there was considerable challenge in taking down an adult male lion with an arrow.

[–]Formula2 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Yeah while you're protected by a full squad of armed guides and probably behind some sort of armored vehicle or high up in a blind. Please.

[–]agray20938 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Have you been hunting in South Africa? Have you ever hunted with a bow? hunting big game like lions, especially with a bow is never done in a blind. the only possible exception is for a leopard, who live in the trees.

[–]Egineer 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Immediately assuming you are more educated than those that don't share the same view as you doesn't make you right, it just makes you arrogant.

[–]lenaxia 2 ポイント3 ポイント

No, but trusting the word of a 19 year old girl on the internet without question makes you stupid.

Every single argument, article and accusation that has flown around the internet can be traced back to her facebook. Thats the only source for any of this.

[–]CrackpotPatriot 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Why can't a 19yr old girl know what she's talking about? Is it the age or the gender you take issue with? I ask because by nineteen I'd already been in the military for two years. If this were a season grizzly adams, would you have the same response?

[–]lenaxia [score hidden]

I would have the exact same response. Also, being in the military for 2 years doesn't mean anything to me either. I wouldn't trust your word if you came to me claiming something without proof. Why should I? Just because you went though basic?

When was the last time you trusted the word of a complete stranger?

[–]NeedMoreCowBen 12 ポイント13 ポイント

however, what's much closer to the truth is that this majestic lion was likely perfectly healthy

in what way are you qualified to make that assessment

[–]Shongaloo 7 ポイント8 ポイント

"hehe ill call him Lord Blackheart instead of Blackthorn...thatll teach him to not call me out on reddit..." - babylon_dude

[–]me_gusta_poon 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The only ignorance here is your own. You obviously didnt take the time to inform yourself and made this comment on pure uninformed emotion. You don't have to guess what happened here. The information is widely available. If you had taken the time to read up on what occurred here you'd know exactly why this particular lion had to be put down and how auctioning off the hunt helped benefit the rest if the population.

[–]retiredknight -1 ポイント0 ポイント

You appear to be the one who is uneducated as to wildlife management practices. The person you replied to posted correct information.

[–]Chipperhof -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

All did is google her and there are many pictures of her with dead animals. I believe your 100% right. This sick person uses the sick and dieing excuse to justify her actions. Sadly one day she will break through the barriers she has created, and all the remorse she is hiding will crush her spirit. Hopefully she is able to find closure, and perhaps can make right at some point.

[–]dragon_nipples -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Lions that have come in and taken over a pride, not only kick the older lion out, but will also kill all of his cubs so that the lioness will come into heat again. Controlling the male lion population is important within large fenced areas like these in order to make sure the cubs have a high survival rate,” Jones said.

"majestic lion" what a joker you are. These animals are cold blooded killers, that will kill more than this girl ever will. Fucked up thing is someone like you probably supports killing human babies and believes animals are more valuable than human lives.

[–]somecasper 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Too many lions? How the hell are 19 y/o first-world consumers qualified to evaluate or dispose of that kind of information? Last I checked, they're dwindling rapidly in numbers. I know conservation hunting, in theory, can actually help grow populations; but I have yet to see one credible study that this hyper-privileged model has had any positive impact.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Its per environment. Having too many of a specific species within the wildlife reserve can make it unstable and risk collapsing the entire system. It does not matter this girls age/race/nationality. It only matters why its possible. It should not matter that she is a young girl vs an old man or whatever else.

[–]somecasper -1 ポイント0 ポイント

It matters when there's no valid explanation why a locally equipped, professionally seasoned animal caretaker couldn't be used to solve a problem. Making it a leisure activity for wealthy white people absolutely creates room for massive doubt.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 11 ポイント12 ポイント

Well as per the article here: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/01/see-the-hunting-pictures-a-texas-cheerleader-posted-on-facebook-that-have-some-calling-her-scum-and-demanding-they-be-removed/

and here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2675807/Animal-lover-outrage-blonde-Texas-cheerleader-smiles-dozens-photos-alongside-rare-big-game-hunts-African-safaris.html

“The rhino was a green hunt, meaning it was darted and immobilized in order to draw blood for testing, DNA profiling, microchip ping the horn and treating a massive leg injury most likely caused by lions. People try to say that lions will not attack a hippo, rhino or elephant, quiet the contrary. Lions attack and kill the young of these species. The adults try to fight the lions off and are regularly successful, but do get injuries in the process,” Jones continued.

“Lions that have come in and taken over a pride, not only kick the older lion out, but will also kill all of his cubs so that the lioness will come into heat again. Controlling the male lion population is important within large fenced areas like these in order to make sure the cubs have a high survival rate,” Jones said.

“Now to the leopard, this was a free ranging leopard in Zimbabwe on communal land,” Jones wrote later. “The money for the permit goes to the communal council and to their village people. Within this area of approximately 250,000 acres, 107 head of cattle was killed in a single year due to leopard kills. Leopard populations have to be controlled in certain areas. So yes, my efforts do go to conservation efforts and are all fair chase, not canned hunts. In fact these are very mentally and physically challenging hunts, on foot tracking and walking miles and miles a day.” She also explained elsewhere that meat from some hunts goes on to feed villages.

So in this situation the money spent and animals killed go to the local environment (communities, reserves, maintenance, growth, etc.) It is possible they are using financial tools like this to maintain their efforts.

There is not much of a difference between this policy and charging for toll roads, entrance into national parks, publicly funded zoos, and any other project that needs outside support.

The participants are helping the reserve. Keep in mind that not all of her "animals" were killed. The rhino for example was just tranquilized to measure it and give it antibiotics.

[–]blrghh 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The Blaze and the Daily Mail. Okay.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Better than the nothing everyone else is citing

[–]merriment_ -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

...which is all and well, until she decided to take pictures like that.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Where she really messed up was her Facebook privacy settings. Shouldn't matter about the pictures. It's her page she can post what she wants. But she should of had it on friends only just for her sake

[–]somecasper -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

Those are all fantastic reasons to shoot an endangered animal. It doesn't change the notion that they're tainted excuses since these hunts were done as for-profit leisure excursions for wealthy westerners with no accredited expertise.

Edit: thought better of the word "fact."

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Yah. I hate it when people earn money and then spend said money on activities that promote the local community where they are spending it. Why can't they all just spend it at Walmart like the rest of us?

Note: 1. Westerners are not their only customers 2. This leisure activity promotes the region 3. The food from it ( when they do kill ) feeds the poor 4. If the family earned the money they have a right to spend it as they choose within the bounds of the law. (Meaning be upset at policy and not the girl)

[–]somecasper 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I've never made any comments to the girl's detriment. It's the practice (if not the lack of policy) that I'm upset by.

[–]bemoreal -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Its the situation, he's mad at, uhh the situation.

[–]bemoreal -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Its the situation, he's mad at, uhh the situation.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 4 ポイント5 ポイント

And for the record, I don't think that killing endangered species should be an option.

I do believe though that it is the laws that should be judged. Not the girl.

The most important thing here is this: We Don't Know.

We don't know why the reserve has this as an option, the finances involved, the long term gain/loss, if any options to tranq and send it to another reserve, zoo or wild were options or if there was a specific reason to put down instead of transfer some of the animals. We just don't know

Too many are getting hyped into anger without us finding all the information.

[–]dragon_nipples 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Listen bud. there are game preserves where you pay 50k to take a lion. These preserves have turned farmland into animal sanctuaries and prevented a species from going extinct.

These places are great for keeping biodiversity safe and lions are even raised to be released. So the fact people come and kill some means the practice should be outlawed?

The game preserves do more good than harm.

[–]PrimeNumber2 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Hey dummy, the wildlife refuge funds itself by letting people pay to kill these terminal/problem animals. Can't you read?

If the caretaker does it, they get nothing. If the rich white girl does it, they get tens of thousands of dollars.

[–]retiredknight 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Too many lions? How the hell are 19 y/o first-world consumers qualified to evaluate or dispose of that kind of information?

The people issuing the licenses make the determination.

Last I checked, they're dwindling rapidly in numbers.

An excess of males does not improve population growth. The dwindling number is due to poaching which license fees help pay to combat.

[–]hollandak 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Hey - I'm trying to find the research to back this up but when I took my hunters certification in Texas, the instructor at the state agency stated that whitetail deer were estimated at under 500,000 over 30 years ago and once they created the licensing program there are now over 4 million whitetail. I will keep looking for a citation…

[–]somecasper [score hidden]

Whitetail deer and a handful of elk species owe their existence to the concept. When the animals are worth more as a population than a pelt, you can shut down the incentive to poach or conduct extermination hunts. I don't dispute that ethical hunting can be a driving force for species preservation, and I'm not against hunting-as-recreation. I just question the value of a notoriously corrupt nation commercializing it to the ultra rich, and using extremely endangered or vulnerable species to do it.

p.s. The argument that the wildlife refuge's fundraising is a valid reason for this is demonstrably bullshit. Very little--if any--money gets re-invested in broader conservation efforts in the best case scenario; and in countries like Zimbabwe and Tanzania, it's anybody's guess. Almost no disclosure is required.

[–]Docist 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Is there a source for her actual story so I can shut some Facebook "activists" up?

[–]lenaxia 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Nope. I've been digging around and the only source for all arguments on both sides of the discussion is her own facebook page.

Yup, all these people are basing their arguments off the word of a 19 year old girl on the internet. What could possibly go wrong?

[–]Cageweek 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It's such a shame the most upvoted reply is this far down the page.

[–]GumbyTM 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Shhh. You're upsetting the ignorant mob's circle jerk.

[–]Lord_Blackthorn 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Yes I see that. Lets follow their lead and immediately assume we:

  1. Have all the information about the situation based on a few pictures.
  2. Assume this girl is an over-privileged and has not earned her own way by any means.
  3. That she was maliciously hunting rare animals with the intent of destroying environments and ecosystems.

I love it when the "jury" of Reddit comes together to persecute someone with almost no information at all about the topic.