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The Red Pill: Discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.
Sister: /r/RedPillWomen/
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Blue Pill ExampleHighly upvoted post in the EMSK subreddit - batteries included, as well as straw men, pedestaling, explaining what love is, emotional abuse, torture. But wait, there's more: "A healthy human being doesn't use sexual strategy." (redditlog.com)
submitted 2 時間 前 by T-rexTea
[–]thewrightstuff88 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 1 時間 前*
I've been on this subreddit for a while now, long enough to say that yes, there are definitely extreme ends of TRP that I personally don't agree with, however, I believe TRP has expanded to much more than "A discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men." I think that it further spans the identity of a man himself, who he is, what makes him feel good about himself, what he can do to improve himself. When this sub started, it was about sexual identity. Most, if not all posts were about the subject. But now, its not about sex, its not about relationships, its about YOU and what makes YOU happy. Yes, sex is involved in that but more and more posts are about happiness and satisfaction out of life from within. Now, I haven't ever read a post where people complained about lifting, reading, learning, and having some new found self respect, but I have read about the positive effects those actions have on the lives of the people who actually put some effort in and made a change towards that.
Like earlier posts said, you even mention the words "red pill," and you will be hit with a shit storm of hate and apprehension. However, if you merely lay out the concepts, that you are a person, that your life isn't dependent on another person's happiness, that your own happiness comes from within, that you should have respect for yourself and that you stand by your values instead of giving in to someone else's, that is something that people can agree with.
TRP is more than sexual strategy and people have to see that. It's about self improvement, happiness, being content, instead of being walked on. Upvote me or down vote me into oblivion, either people will wake up and listen, or they'll still keep living the disney romance dream and will wait on hand and foot for a woman and believe in true love. Well, just like hate, anger, happiness, fear, etc, its a feeling. You don't have too long to live on this planet so either you get what you want and live the life you want, or you can sit around and let it pass you by.
[–]Jerseypoor 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 44 分 前*
I notice that u/mytrpaccount pulls this off many times. I have also performed a similar experiment on others I know in real life, specifically those that use reddit. How you present an idea is more important than the idea itself.
Edit: This logical fallacy is an ad hominem known as "poisoning the well". Evidence of this is that anytime this subreddit is linked it is in a negative context, e.g the askreddit thread about "what makes you lose faith in your gender?", or something like that.
[–]thewrightstuff88 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 35 分 前
exactly, the only issue that people will have with this is that they will feel that it is manipulation, when you are simply putting the idea into terms they can understand. so many people make a fuss about an idea that is different, however, they always seem to forget that they have the power to simply ignore the idea and move on with their lives instead of making posts attacking it. Then again, here we are, giving attention to this EMSK post, which puts us in the same boat. The best thing for us to do is to next it and move on with our lives...towards self improvement and self respect
[–]EternallyAnon 24 ポイント25 ポイント26 ポイント 1 時間 前
Okay so I can see fallacies and whimsical logic but why disagree with what he's saying? I know his hate for trp isn't really based on much but doesn't what he say warrant some appreciation? If people are in a loving relationship shouldn't they communicate rather than partake in psychological one-upmanship? If people aren't willing to change for one another then they shouldn't be in a relationship with one another. At least that's how I see it...
This isn't so much a rant as it is a genuine question. I'm interested in hearing your opinions.
[–]thebusfromspeed 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前
If people are in a loving relationship shouldn't they communicate rather than partake in psychological one-upmanship
It's not EITHER/OR and red pill certainly doesn't advocate constant psychological one-upmanship.
If people aren't willing to change for one another then they shouldn't be in a relationship with one another.
This statement is ambiguous. Change for one another... how so? to what degree? what changes--personality? behaviors? personal beliefs? etc...
[–]EternallyAnon 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 53 分 前
I never said that it does. I think that that is what the author of the discussed post is saying and is confused as to the nature of trp or maybe doesn't accept that its a small community and that some posts may not summarise the community's view.
I'm aware that my 'people should change' statement was ambiguous but it is that way for a reason. It depends on the circumstance.
I understand the flaws in the post but agree with the general sentiment. Sure, some women that you get into a relationship may have a behavioural characteristic which is harmful and can be nulled by an objective approach which appeals to their psyche. I think its important to stay aware. Aware of the situations where this is okay or not okay. If its just for something that annoys you or is done in a way which makes the other person feel horrible then it probably isn't okay. Communication is key throughout a relationship though and things that you want to change in the other person should be communicated. As to your question of what should change it will be different for each person what they feel they need to or want to change.
What do you feel is the main sentiment of the discussed post and do you disagree that change is necessary in a relationship? What aspects of appealing to somebody's psyche rather than mere communication would you agree or disagree with? Do you feel I have misunderstood you OP on some way and if so how?
Thanks for any reply.
I'm aware that the author misunderstand trp but
[–]TogiBear -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 15 分 前
What aspects of appealing to somebody's psyche rather than mere communication would you agree or disagree with?
Women are creatures of emotion, men are creatures of reason. This is not saying one is better than the other, it means we've both evolved differently biologically over time because we fulfilled different roles in our survival as a species.
TRP is a mix of both appealing to psyche and communication. When we understand the games that are being played, we also understand how to beat them. The "games" being played are referred here as shit tests and every woman unconsciously does this to gouge strength. When you start failing shit tests, you give off a weak vibe and simply put, it's unattractive.
When we appeal to psyche, we begin with the premise that she is submissive, I am dominant. Start with that, incorporate your personal reason and logic and you've got the foundation of your relationship. As long as you maintain your strength, continue being dominant, and pass the shit tests, it's unlikely that she will lose attraction for you.
[–]Bronotrelevant 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 時間 前
He is mixing hooking up with relationships. Then uses extreme cases of abusive relationships as examples to argue against TRP. There is no "manipulation" because from the get go both parties know how their relationship will work, a fwb, LTR, whatever. The whole analogy of using women to fuck and clean is ridiculous because first it victimizes women and paints them as weak, fragile, powerless beings when in reality they have the power to leave the relationship but choose to stay. OP basically covered up an abusive relationship and painted it as TRP.
[–]Scraze 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 13 分 前
Just because women have the power to leave, and choose not to leave, does not equal whatever you're doing as right.
You're mentally fucking her emotions and mind, and all she wants is to be loved and cared for (like every human being on this planet, man or women). So she stays, hoping to make things better, when all you've done by playing this game of, its-either-you-or-me-in-power, is make her feel like shit. And if she has any sense of self-respect, she'll see leave you because she sees that all you do is make her feel like shit.
There isn't some power war in a relationship. Women are not this enemy that you have to constrain and break so that they "understand" who's in control.
A relationship is supposed to have two equals. If you think you're above a women, then you're no better of a person, than people who think that a white person is above a black person.
Oh and she's being a cunt and she thinks that she's above a man? Leave dickwad.
No one is above anyone else.
[–]Bronotrelevant 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 分 前
You just went on a full rant without even reading and comprehending what I said.
[–]Adach 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
If I were in a long term relationship, I would demand that there be loving mutual appreciation that didn't require us to be constantly playing some psychological game. That being said I know my role in that relationship, and though I would hope to be able to intimately show vulnerability to my S.O., if all I did was show vulnerability I would come across as weak.
If I during the course of our relationship became an out of shape, pushover, lazy, weak slob I would be surprised if my SO wasn't considering leaving me.
I don't see that being an issue however, if you as a male live your life according to trp philosophy (and it's not exclusive to trp, it's just generally good life habits!), stay in shape, live a passionate, happy, life with purpose, don't chase women or put them on a pedestal... etc. then I don't need to threaten my S.O. with mind games, she knows I am a desirable male that is as capable on my own as I am with her, and then her own psychology kicks in there.
I think you'll find a lot of redpillers really are 1-girl guys. A plate is really just a fuckbuddy whose sexual promiscuity makes her an unwise ltr partner.
[–]EternallyAnon -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 47 分 前
Thanks for your post and I agree. I think I maybe jumped to the conclusion that the OP disagreed with the general sentiment of the post.
[–]Adach 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 40 分 前
no i don't think so, some others mentioned that beyond TRP witchhunt there's some good stuff in that post
[–]rubberbandnot 30 ポイント31 ポイント32 ポイント 1 時間 前*
He doesn't seem to understand that it is Nature who pushes us to use sexual strategy, TRP didn't invent it. Being masculine, physically and psychologically, is how man is supposed to be and that is what TRP is about.
He never once makes the distinction between the nature of men and women. Instead, he keeps talking about "human beings". Human beings are like this and like that. The first premise of TRP is that men and women are different and that is why there is a specific TRP subreddit for women. He doesn't admit the difference between the two genders which is why all he has to say is that "A true awakening is realizing that the people around you are more than just faces, that they all have their own stories, their own thoughts, hopes and dreams, and that they are just as complex as you are."
No...what is truly awakening is realizing that men and women are different. Finally behaving like a man and seeing how it changes our relationship with others for the better is what's truly awakening.
[–]Kronouranos 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 25 分 前
Exactly. I think everyone would love to be able to talk to their SO and "agree" to not use sexual strategy in the relationship, and live happily ever after. But that's not how humans, no matter how complicated and unique, work. There has been, and will always be power plays. Which is why swallowing the pill sucks.
[–]BambooToaster 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 2 分 前
But... That's just not true. There are power plays if you make it about power plays. There are millions of people out there having happy relationships without one person trying to dominate the other constantly. Maybe, just maybe, you're talking from your unfortunate experiences and not for all humans.
[–]bfaced 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 8 分 前
They'll never concede there's inherent gender differences. Feminism has decided the nature vs nurture debate is over and that it's all nurture and society's evil oppressing ways. I know of a book called The Delusion of Gender that's huge in feminist circles.
[–]TLAdaptD 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 1 時間 前*
There was around 58,000~ Subscribers at the time of the EMSK posting. We're in for a ride guys.
EDIT: The EMSK post is in the top 5 of /r/all
[–]RojoEscarlata 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 45 分 前
It felt like advertising at some point:
Hey guys TRP is evil because it teaches men how to dominate women and get what you want! Everything they say is most likely true and it does work, but don't go there because I said so.
Now that I think about it, who here made that post? You Machiavellian bastard.
[–]TLAdaptD 17 ポイント18 ポイント19 ポイント 1 時間 前
Since there are so many new folks here today, exploring for the first time, this is a great opportunity to showcase that much of what is said here is agreed upon when said in a different setting in a friendlier way
[–]Tr1c0 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1 時間 前
We gained 100 subscribers in 25 minutes.
[–]TLAdaptD 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 56 分 前
most of the people subscribed here come from these type of posts. When do you ever see /r/TheRedPill, outside of here, in a positive light?
They come from these type of comments and posts, and a small minority end up subscribing.
If you took away all posts and comments in every other community of Reddit that showed their disdain for this subreddit, this community would probably be five times smaller. It's a huge advertisement, every time a posts like the one above becomes as popular as it is.
[–]Tsilent_Tsunami 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 26 分 前
most of the people subscribed here come from these type of posts.
This is always terrible for a subreddit, and accounts for most of the degradation here. 90%+ of the posts by new users stray widely from the original RP philosophy. It's been disappointing to see TRP go so far downhill.
Lots of angry immature kids in here now.
[–]pragmaticzach 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 17 分 前
You realize people have to be subbed to comment, right? You're getting tons of people signing up so that they can comment on how stupid you are.
[–]knightforker 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 44 分 前
Probably didn't help that the article made us look like pornstars or something who use secrete knowledge that lets us fuck women like a fleshlight, and then they do the dishes afterwords.
I don't think he could of written a better article to spark the male fantasy of the wider public.
[–]Jonny5ive 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 28 分 前
i actually sat here and hit refresh a couple times, watching it tick up.
when i started typing this note: 58,330 subscribers.
hit refresh, am now finished, cut copy and paste: 58,333 subscribers.
[–]Hereletmegooglethat 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 44 分 前
it was 58,005 I'm just gonna use http://redditmetrics.com/r/TheRedPill to see how much we make over today and compare it to the previous days. Should be a decent jump.
[–]RedSpectrum 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 40 分 前
I have been on TRP for a while but I don't recall anything major on Jan 4th. Do you know how I can look on TRP or search thru the redditmetrics to see what happened?
[–]TooMuchToDoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 32 分 前
I was one of the subscribers on the 4th. It was an askreddit that made the front page asking "what is the worst subreddit that you know?"
TRP was obviously at the top of the list, and bam. 1,000 new subscribers.
I suspect similar will happen today.
[–]RedSpectrum 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 28 分 前
Oh, I remember that now! I was like where the fuck are these people coming from?
And it might even surpass that number today considering that EMSK post is now over in /r/bestof and we already gained 320 last time I checked redditmetrics.
[–]FuckingCockbroaches 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 53 分 前
A few more of these posts and we'll be bigger than them.
[–]1asd1100 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 8 分 前
well I'm off for the next month until things calm down, have a nice blue pill huricane everyone!
[–]RedSpectrum 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 7 分 前
Mods are going to be working their butts off.
[–]pjewa 43 ポイント44 ポイント45 ポイント 1 時間 前
women are people too
Yes. They are. Which is why I don't put them on a pedestal. Which is why they aren't entitled to special treatment because they are the "gatekeepers" of sex. Which is why when they are hamstering or acting silly, I call them out on it.
I feel like the author uses "woman are people too" to advance an agenda of treating them differently. Seems a little backwards.
[–]Turpentine01 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 38 分 前
The author wasn't saying to treat them differently, thats pretty much the exact opposite of his message. He was essentially saying to treat women as you'd like to be treated yourself, or more directly, don't treat them to the same techniques and methods you would hate for someone to use on you.
Calling someone out on their bullshit is fine, as long as you accept that that works both ways. Its even healthy, as long as you actually talk about it like human beings and it isn't simply a one sided put down. Its not about gender vs gender, or one being better or worse than the other, its about how if you care about someone for more than just their genitals you should treat them as such.
[–]Lok_Die 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント just now
Relationships are more than being polite to each other.
There is most certainly a masculine and feminine role to relationships. Part of trp is trying to remasculize the male side of the equation. Bringing the top back into balance.
On top of this you have the whole apparent demonization of masculinity. Which in and of itself is problematic because there is a set of mental milestones a stereotypical masculine male must go through to be of any use to himself and everyone around him. These steps starting from early childhood to condition this nascent man into a wholesome man. Part of this is exploration of oneself mentally and physically.
With the demonization of masculinity you have this refusal of young boys to walk the path to productive malehood. Or even their fathers refusal to lead them down the path.
I should explain why it is important for men to be gently shepherded down the path by a father.
Masculine energy, our responses to stress and threat can be exceedingly destructive if not channelled into something constructive. A boys father acts as a buffer to the real world as his son figures out how to interact with the world in a constructive way, both guiding with wisdom and administering punishment when needed to correct any truly aberrant behaviour.
Part of the benefits of this training and acquisition of mental skill sets is a pillar of strength and resourcefulness that everyone around him can count on. Most importantly he can be a father himself to carry on the tradition.
The problem is men refuse to step foot on the path. The path requires destruction, it requires abuse of power. It requires men to know what they are capable of.
Trp is a frank discussion of this destructive capacity and how it can be channelled into greater power for one's self.
One of the reasons it is common to see extreme views here is men are now old, takingtheir first steps into harnessing masculine power, and as I said, part of that is the need to understand it's destructive nature by using it for just that.
Without men to shelter and buffer their sons explorations of himself, it is done in public, where those who refuse to embrace their masculinity and can't watch on in horror until hos transformation is complete.
[–]ACC0007 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前
Because treating someone the way you want to be treated is "treating them differently"
[–]sparkleselite 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント just now
Women are people too. They should be treated equally but remember that some sexes are more equal than others...
We all just need to stop giving a fuck about what the other subs day. It doesn't help this sub at all.
[–]DrakeSaint -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 1 時間 前
Let's see. If women are people too, then how do I get more jail time on average than a women who commited the same exact crime? If they are people too, why won't divorce rates split income equally amongst both parts?
It's all about being people when it's best for their interests.
[–]IIdsandsII 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 51 分 前
doesn't it go both ways though? yes men get screwed in many ways, but we also benefit in many ways women do not.
if you could be born all over again, which sex would you pick?
i'm a man, and i would never choose to be a woman.
also, the whole gatekeeper of sex thing is absurd. i've often been the gatekeeper myself. i've turned down girls and sex with girls at least as many times as i've been turned down.
the real issue here is your perception.
[–]DrakeSaint -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 48 分 前
There is no perception in the statistics I've mentioned, which are posted in a nearly daily basis. I've not even delved into the myth that "women earn less than men".
Yes, it goes both ways, and should.
[–]IIdsandsII 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 38 分 前*
I'm not totally disagreeing with you, and I agree with your analysis of the statistics, but there are other statistics that favor men over women. Some of these things are natural and we'll never have control over them. Women will never be as physically powerful as men, and are therefore totally uninteresting to watch in sports, and are therefore never going to make what men make. This is just the way it is. On the other hand, actual jobs in which women should be paid equally don't always work out that way. Men are the dominant sex and we benefit greatly from this, and this is why such shitty laws are enacted that favor women. It's like affirmative action, but with sex. However, as ass-backwards as it all is, it's still better to be a man in this world. Yes there are instances in which men get totally screwed (divorce, rape, etc.), and that is wrong, but women get screwed too.
As for the myth. Well, it's only partially a myth. Yes equal pay exists, but there is still a lot of sex-based discrimination, it exists where I presently work, and nearly every place I've worked at before. I know these issues can be remedied in practice, but it's not always practical or realistic.
Would you really rather be a woman? If you truly would rather be female than male, then I guess you have an argument? If not, then you have no leg to stand on.
Edit: I did some more reading. I apparently didn't fully understand this sub. So you guys offer some good pointers, but there's also a lot of toxic info in here too. For the good points you make, well done. For the bad info, not so much.
[–]southseattle77 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 47 分 前
A feminist, which I am not, might accurately say that these things are because of the sexism that perpetuated our culture until recently. We all put women on a pedestal, treated them as nurturers. Men did this and women accepted it. So because men were sexist in not treating women equally, the holdover is that they get less harsh prison sentences, kids in the divorce, and are generally seen as victims instead of perpetrators.
[–]GrimLP -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 27 分 前*
Your "logic" doesn't make any sense. If you don't like women getting special treatment, shouldn't you be mad at the people giving them the special treatment(Mostly males)? It sounds like you're mad at women, like they're the shady arch nemesis or something.
[–]DrQuaid 39 ポイント40 ポイント41 ポイント 1 時間 前
I dont fucking understand.... why so much hate for the subreddit when you don't fucking BROWSE OR READ THE SUBREDDIT.
[–]SometimesISpeak 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 1 時間 前
The author claims to be a member at TRP. Then he goes on to explain how he has no clue in regard to what he's saying. He's literally proudly "blue pill", meaning that no amount of facts and logic can convince him he's wrong.
This article and the comments are great for understanding how and why people come to hate TRP: they hate what they don't understand. They don't want to understand that they don't understand. And they want to convince everyone else to hate that which they don't understand nor intend on understanding. You don't waste time arguing with people who state upfront that their imagination is more important than facts.
[–]thebusfromspeed 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 20 分 前*
they hate what they don't understand
This is partially true. RP concepts can be too "next level" for some people, mostly because of the layers of social conditioning that get in the way.
But, it also has to do with investment. We should remember that RP is by its very nature a process in which blindspots are revealed to an individual. Blindspots that can challenge one's values, beliefs, and behaviors. If it's a big blindspot, like red pill vs. blue pill, then it can challenge a man's identity and sense of self in a very deep and frightening way. It can potentially invalidate decades of a man's life--decades of poor decisions and lost opportunities. Decades of friendships and romantic relationships that were built within a shared delusional worldview.
Some guys can't handle it. They fight against it. Too much of them is wrapped up in the blue pill worldview.
I remember hearing a story about how an audience member at a Tony Robbins seminar attempted to sue Tony for psychological damages after he did some one-on-one work in pointing out their personal blindspots.
I vaguely recall RSD Tyler talking about some studies showing that the body+mind interprets a major, identity-challenging event as if it's a lethal threat to the organism itself. Cortisol skyrockets and defense mechanisms are activated. The mind will proactively try block out the new information out by flushing the system with chemistry designed to blind your psyche.
It's worth noting that the OP of the EMSK post was married before he found TRP. ;)
[–]sushisection 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 16 分 前
they hate what they don't understand. They don't want to understand that they don't understand. And they want to convince everyone else to hate that which they don't understand nor intend on understanding. You don't waste time arguing with people who state upfront that their imagination is more important than facts.
It's like this whenever a group hates on another group of people. Arabs, immigrants, conservatives, rich people, poor people... The same process you mentioned is used in all of these. So people, keep this in mind whenever someone hates on a group of people, keep this in mind whenever you yourself hate on a group of people.
[–]Adach 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前
the bestof author even got the subreddit wrong, he wrote r/RedPill vs /r/TheRedPill
[–]T-rexTea[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 1 時間 前
The influx of new users seem to be smarter than OP.
[–]Scraze 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 34 分 前
What if it was just a typo?
[–]Adach 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 32 分 前
my post was more of a joke than anything
[–]kick6 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 56 分 前
confirmation bias is a powerful force.
[–]ErryBDWokTheDinosaur 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前
People don't like being told that what they believe is untrue or what they are doing is incorrect. There is a large following of the reddit community that has demonized this sub, so it's obvious how it has caught fire. The majority of people who are supporting the thread's point are obviously people who have never contributed nor browsed regularly, as they are lacking in proper terminology and theory.
It's funny though, even though that is on the front page and /r/bestof'd we are gaining, rather than losing, subscribers. (go figure)
[–]pragmaticzach 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント just now
You're getting more subscribers because you have to be subscribed to comment. Tons of people are subscribing after reading that thread on /r/all because they want to comment on how stupid you are.
[–]tig_old_bitties_baby -40 ポイント-39 ポイント-38 ポイント 1 時間 前*
I guaran-fucking-tee this post was made by some cunt from /r/twoxchromosomes. Fucking A mark my words ever since that shithole became a default these white knights have been comeing out of the woodwork enjoying there beta fucking fame... so gay, seriously wtf...
ALL CUNTS, BETAS, AND WHITE KNIGHTS READING THIS: FUCK YOU ALL. YEAH, I WENT THERE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_burn_centers_in_the_United_States
edit: Lmao, look and laugh at the betas downvoteing me guys...
[–]fuckingseries 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 50 分 前
Calm down dude, you sound unbalanced.
[–]GenuineBPA 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 45 分 前
confirmed 12 year old from 2xchromosome using 4 year old epic maymays to troll TRP
[–]AngryBeaverThrownout 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
They want you easy to control and gobbling your soma, not dangerous and out there imposing your will on the world around you.
[–]4Invalidity 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前
The majority of people don't generally like to go against the norm, especially for such a "controversial" subject. Those people then conform to said groupthink and will continue to perpetuate the negativity directed towards TRP. Even if you play devil's advocate, if you give any hint of acceptance of RP philosophy, you will be shot down, no matter how much evidence there is to support it.
[–]AlchemyPhoenix 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前
There are a lot of people who cry sour grapes when they look at something that other people enjoy that they can't have. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of the men who oppose TRP the most vocally relied on it when they were single. Now they have settled into an ostensibly satisfying relationship, but every so often their eyes drift back here and they pine momentarily for the good old days of NSA sex. Then their brain immediately hamsters up an excuse for how we couldn't possibly be happy and we must be damaged on the inside, because this resolves their cognitive dissonance and reassures them that they made the correct decision with monogamy.
[–]agent00F -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 58 分 前
The rather aggressively defensive nature of this comment and replies would seem to validate the EMSK op.
There's certain irony that the men & women of /TRP and /SRS or such were made for each other, both trying to climb over their counterparts with pretense to superiority.
It's perhaps best for society for everyone to be able to identify intentions such that the best reciprocating match between the nice folks and between the manipulative ones can be made.
[–]bertstare10 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 41 分 前
the most amusing part is when they list all the things they agree with (e.g. improving your physique, not pedestaling, etc) and it will be a long list of things then at the end they'll throw in something like "but it's a fucking awful ideology"... but not explain what part(s) of it they disagree with/etc
[–]Bronotrelevant -8 ポイント-7 ポイント-6 ポイント 1 時間 前
And you're typical mixing of abusive relationships with RP men.
[–]ZXMarvin 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 1 時間 前
I'm new to /r/redpill but I thought the basic premise here was that you metaphorically choose to take the red pill, and acknowledge that societies insistence on putting women in a position where men must flock to them and things like those films where the nice guy wins in the end are nothing more than fantasy. This guy makes out like the thoughts of few are the ideologies of many.
Its also not a matter of being nice, often guys think that being a wet blanket is attractive, and that in film-esque fashion the girl is going to take the lead and this superb relationship shall ensue, but in reality, without a challenge, without feeling like you have earned the attraction of the opposite sex, Its boring anyway IMHO.
Frustrates me in today's society that a man is not allowed to be a man, because everything is supposed to be neutral. You cant argue or stand up for your beliefs because that's aggressive, cant be assertive in a relationship because that's abuse, cant be confident because not everyone else is. All the time people are just waiting in the side lines trying to make out that being anything other than this 'nice guy' that society promotes from birth is wrong.
...But maybe I have the wrong idea about this sub.
[–]thewrightstuff88 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 40 分 前
society can tell you to do many things. society stands by and takes a cell phone video of a mom getting beat up by another woman while her toddler stands by scared for his life. society can tell you THE WAY things should be. however, it is more than just a habit, its in our nature, as a man to act as a man, and a woman to act as a woman. We are not fighting that nature with logic because 9 times out of 10, nature wins. Instead, we try to understand it, through TRP.
People, such as those in that posted above, will shit on your beliefs all day if it doesn't match theirs or if it isn't politically correct. Just look at the post in r/confession about the parents who don't believe in god yet they preach it because its their way to make a living. You have your own beliefs and its up to you to stand by them and not let people tell you what to do. Even here, in this subreddit, we aren't forcing you to listen to our beliefs, but if it sounds right to you, then by all means take it in and choose what feels right to you. I don't believe in everything that is said in this subreddit, but I believe enough that it has made a positive impact in my life and my relationships.
It's up to you whether you want to "take" the red pill and get what you want out of it. This is about embracing what nature intended instead of fighting it.
[–]ZXMarvin 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 32 分 前*
Nice to know my thoughts are echoed, also nice to see an intellectual reply in what is often conveyed as a sub of lonely women haters. Wont lie, I've heard about the RP and most of it bad, but I think there is some really good stuff here(and some bad), many people just don't want to see it.
I like how you point out that not everything should be believed in this sub Reddit, a lesson many could learn from the internet in general!
[–]thewrightstuff88 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 19 分 前
An idea is like a match being lit, putting it on the internet is like taking that lit match to a body of gasoline the size of the Atlantic Ocean. That being said, you have to take anything from the internet with a grain of salt and choose what you believe wisely.
[–]ZXMarvin 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 17 分 前
Ha, that was a fantastic analogy! And one I have never heard of! is it your own?
[–]thewrightstuff88 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 10 分 前
Thanks, Made it up on the fly
[–]Endorsed Contributortheubercuber 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 1 時間 前
Congratulations, you have taken the red pill :)
[–]ZXMarvin 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 40 分 前*
Thanks, Kind of concerned about the amount of hate people get here...but then more concerned about how few people actually question that what society tells them or what everyone else does might not in every case be correct.
[–]Overkillengine 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 分 前
Just don't post info that can be used to doxx you. They won't be able to refute your logic or results, so they'll settle for character assassination.
[–]T-rexTea[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 34 分 前
You don't have the wrong idea, the OP described a warped caricature of this sub often portrayed in /r/shitredditsays, /r/thebluepill, and every other subreddit. It is likely he has never read anything even near the length of his long tirade against TRP.
[–]ZXMarvin -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 26 分 前
Bit depressing though, how embedded this notion of the red pill is conveyed as something completely different to what it is.
You end up seeing so many straw men you'd think it was a warehouse of scarecrows.
[–]TLAdaptD 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 44 分 前
fantastic comment.
You have the right starting mindset to make great use of a lot of Readings here.
[–]ZXMarvin 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 37 分 前
Thanks, I think it helps that I am in my twenties to be honest, so can come to it with a slightly more level headed angle, than say I might have at 15 or something.
[–]TogiBear 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 29 分 前
Frustrates me in today's society that a man is not allowed to be a man, because everything is supposed to be neutral.
And when people make a subreddit about it to teach people how to be men, we are universally hated because people give their own ill-informed opinions to other people, they regurgitate it to someone else, and finally the cycle begins and keeps going.
[–]ZXMarvin -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 21 分 前
What would you do about it? Promotion of the true message?
[–]TogiBear 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 11 分 前
There is no message. We're just a community that contributes to it's own wealth of knowledge through self posted theories and field reports.
We don't care what other people think of TRP. Either they swallow the pill, or they stick to their confirmation bias and choke on it. We're not responsible for their happiness.
[–]ZXMarvin 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 分 前
Good point, maybe I was looking at it from the perspective that there is obviously a synopsis of the RP or more so its community being used to describe a misogynistic cult.
[–]super-nsfw 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 49 分 前
I'd characterize that post as semi-genuine - I think much of it was quite fair (in my opinion), but there was also a partial element of not wanting to understand, and by that I mean, I personally did not get the sense that he was saying "here is my current understanding of what TRP stands for, does anyone disagree with that?" but rather "here is what TRP stands for, and here is why that is wrong".
His description is inconsistent with my understanding or interpretation of what TRP is. I'll describe my interpretation, or what I find useful about the general idea, and am curious to hear opinions of that, whether it is consistent with the "official" purpose, etc.
In a nutshell: humans, both female and male, have flaws. Some are shared, some are unique to genders. It varies by individual, but there are undeniable patterns and commonalities.
Speaking with respect to "women" and "feminism" specifically (men also have issues in my opinion, but that is a different topic): I believe for whatever reason (culture, media, law, perhaps the fault of men, etc) there is to a certain degree (with many but not all women) a systemic abuse of power in our society and relationships. If we have conflict, we are told we are supposed to sit down and communicate to resolve our differences, but in my opinion, one side is willing to do that and the other is not. One side is willing to be honest and genuine, the other side is not.
My interpretation of what TRP should be used for, is to essentially destroy that dishonest and uncooperative behavior in a relationship. Then, once the attitude problem has been straightened out, you can proceed discussions as rational adults as we are told we are supposed to do by OP of that post. I personally do not agree that the psychological tools of TRP should be used to subordinate or abuse your SO on an ongoing basis (as he claims is the purpose), but I fully endorse using it absolutely whenever necessary to force a climate of discussion. If you are in a disagreement with someone and refuse to listen to their side of the argument, than I believe any psychological technique to remove that deliberately ignorant and arrogant attitude is appropriate.
I disagree with the OP of the other post, and anyone else on that side of the argument, when they assert that everyone is always being reasonable, rational adults in this disagreement, and all you have to do is sit down and talk, you don't need to resort to such underhanded psychological games. Yes, many people are like that, but many people are not, and both men and woman are guilty of it - TRP just so happens to concern itself with the "pro-male" subset of this group.
Anyways, that's my view of it, I'm curious how that jives with other's opinions, or the "official" purpose.
[–]nottraceable 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1 時間 前
The problem with this sub is that it does not tolerate any criticism, no matter how constructive. THAT is what makes it so bad.
The smallest hint of opposition gets downvoted to oblivion while accompanied with stuff like 'bluepiller' or whatever name you come up with.
[–]SometimesISpeak 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 58 分 前
The problem with this sub is that it does not tolerate any criticism, no matter how constructive. THAT is what makes it so bad. The smallest hint of opposition gets downvoted to oblivion while accompanied with stuff like 'bluepiller' or whatever name you come up with.
I've lurked here since December of '13. So far I've seen plenty of opposition followed by civil and logical arguments. If you mean that unfounded claims with no logic or facts to back them up are shot down, then yes I agree with you.
[–]DrakeSaint 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 58 分 前
It's pretty troubling to critique something which confirms itself truth in a daily basis, from different corners of the world, and sometimes even different people.
For instance, I've defended through some posts and even a topic that masturbation and video games are no demons, though moderation, like everything in life, should be accessed. But sometimes TRP takes a man's mind from one extreme to the other, giving birth to stuff like no-fap, which clearly makes no sense from a true TRP mindset perspective.
[–]SacreBleuMe 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 34 分 前
On TRP censorship
Effectively we have no time to debate we're here to teach and you can pick and choose what you like. You don't go into a Muslim mosque to undermine Islam or a Jewish synagogue to argue about Judaism, or a feminist club to call feminism bullshit. The people there have a set of beliefs, it is assumed if you are there then you do too. If you want to turn everything into a debating society and take up everyone's time with the debate process, your flagrant contempt for the ideas shared via the academic antagonism of constant debate and interrogative lines of questioning will not be tolerated and you will find yourself cast out. The person on the attack (asking the questions) takes the mighty position of assuming their disbelief must be placated. Our policy is if you don't like or believe in the shit we say, then fuckoff and leave us to get on with what we're doing, we don't try to recruit or get people to join us, we let the things we teach speak for themselves. If it works for you and you believe in it as a result, fucking great. If you don't? We don't care. If we always have to justify ourselves to your intellectual whims, it makes us seem like we have something to answer for and that we need to placate you, which we don't. Our policy of not doing this, and silencing people who persistently ask such questions in order to undermine the sub is a necessary evil, censorship of such characters is a lesser evil than allowing these people to overrun the sub with their "concern" and their "doubt" and their semantic academic ponderings and aggressive conceited pedantry hidden by nothing but a veil of sophistication. This my friends is why TRP censors dissent in the main sub. If you have an honest question/confusion about TRP, that is why /r/asktrp[2] was invented. You have no plausible grounds for your weak claims of unfair censorship and the bullshit hyperbolic construction that TRP is a cult as a result of the treatment you received, that my friend stinks of butthurt and is what is known as a slippery slope argument.
Effectively we have no time to debate we're here to teach and you can pick and choose what you like. You don't go into a Muslim mosque to undermine Islam or a Jewish synagogue to argue about Judaism, or a feminist club to call feminism bullshit. The people there have a set of beliefs, it is assumed if you are there then you do too. If you want to turn everything into a debating society and take up everyone's time with the debate process, your flagrant contempt for the ideas shared via the academic antagonism of constant debate and interrogative lines of questioning will not be tolerated and you will find yourself cast out.
The person on the attack (asking the questions) takes the mighty position of assuming their disbelief must be placated. Our policy is if you don't like or believe in the shit we say, then fuckoff and leave us to get on with what we're doing, we don't try to recruit or get people to join us, we let the things we teach speak for themselves. If it works for you and you believe in it as a result, fucking great. If you don't? We don't care. If we always have to justify ourselves to your intellectual whims, it makes us seem like we have something to answer for and that we need to placate you, which we don't. Our policy of not doing this, and silencing people who persistently ask such questions in order to undermine the sub is a necessary evil, censorship of such characters is a lesser evil than allowing these people to overrun the sub with their "concern" and their "doubt" and their semantic academic ponderings and aggressive conceited pedantry hidden by nothing but a veil of sophistication.
This my friends is why TRP censors dissent in the main sub. If you have an honest question/confusion about TRP, that is why /r/asktrp[2] was invented. You have no plausible grounds for your weak claims of unfair censorship and the bullshit hyperbolic construction that TRP is a cult as a result of the treatment you received, that my friend stinks of butthurt and is what is known as a slippery slope argument.
[–]LukeMooney 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 23 分 前
I fucking love the red pill. I love everything about it. Even the maniac new subscribers who don't understand it, they need to be educated is all. I love its honesty, the way it deals with reality instead of bullshit. They way it offers solutions rather than sympathy. And I love the brotherhood, reading a decent FR even if its bragging 101, I still enjoy it. Mostly, I love the guys that come here broken, sort their lives out then do a write up, I fucking love those coming of age stories.
Dicks like OP who stir shit up are pathetic losers. He started his post off ok, then just started making massive generalizations that I don't believe to be true about red pill ideology. I honestly believe if people here were advocating being mentally abusive they would be harshly criticized. The worst thing TRP encourages is plate spinning, about which no one is encouraged to lie, but to be honest if anything! The abusive domineering relationship crap OP talked about I'm yet to see, and would like sources of gtfo.
[–]1leftajar 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 41 分 前
His fundamental error is assuming that you can just tell a woman, "Hey sweetie, how about we don't play any games, okay? No games." And she'll agree to it, and stick to it.
As most of us here know, that doesn't work, ever.
Game-playing is hard-coded into the female brain, because it's a part of their sexual strategy. You could literally tell a girl you don't want to play games, and she'll agree to it, and mean it, and then play games anyway. Thus, the BURDEN of running the relationship falls onto us men, because only we are capable of running a relationship for mutual benefit.
TL;DR the guy has no idea what he's talking about, and lives in a la-la land where chicks will magically agree not to play games if you just ask.
[–]pragmaticzach 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 14 分 前
Being a real man in a relationship with a real woman and I can honestly say I've never had that issue.
[–]holla2cents 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 分 前
He sees relationships in a idealist view where women are supposed to treat men in a certain way, even though their behavior does not warrant it (asking for respect, asking not to be shit tested). Similarly when women expect a man to provide for her and give her commitment, when she is a promiscuous slob.
The truth is the products of productive and fulfilling relationships are produced when you exhibit proper "masculine" behavior that makes your girl go crazy for you, not when you "ask" her for it.
[–]redpillshadow 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前
Gilded 9 times. That "super upvote" button sure cashs in for reddit.
Wonder what kind of people upvote that. These kind of people.
Gilded and 600 upvotes I honestly don't mean to have a hostile tone, but are you intentionally trying to project the whole stepford/pleasantville creepiness that many of your photographs seem to give off? You seem to represent an almost impossible-to-attain portrait of womanhood, and as a woman I honestly find many of your pictures unsettling. I swear, I'm an otherwise very confident person and I consider myself attractive, so I'm not trying to sound like some butthurt overweight girl who is whining about unattainable standards of beauty and femininity (this statement is directed towards the rest of reddit, not you). Can you provide some insight about your artistic vision and intentions? I'm very very curious to hear what you have to say. Something about your photos makes me feel strangely depressed/inadequate and I'm alarmed by my own reaction. That being said, this is truly great work and I applaud your abilities. edit: I'm reacting to your Instagram as a whole, not just these photos.
Gilded and 600 upvotes
I honestly don't mean to have a hostile tone, but are you intentionally trying to project the whole stepford/pleasantville creepiness that many of your photographs seem to give off?
You seem to represent an almost impossible-to-attain portrait of womanhood, and as a woman I honestly find many of your pictures unsettling. I swear, I'm an otherwise very confident person and I consider myself attractive, so I'm not trying to sound like some butthurt overweight girl who is whining about unattainable standards of beauty and femininity (this statement is directed towards the rest of reddit, not you). Can you provide some insight about your artistic vision and intentions?
I'm very very curious to hear what you have to say. Something about your photos makes me feel strangely depressed/inadequate and I'm alarmed by my own reaction. That being said, this is truly great work and I applaud your abilities.
edit: I'm reacting to your Instagram as a whole, not just these photos.
A reaction to that thread. http://redditlog.com/snapshots/774049
Nothing new for a redpill reader. That is the way women (and blue pills) react to greatness. They are not inspired to better themselves. They hate with a passion which burns hotter than hell.
[–]RojoEscarlata -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 33 分 前
Holy shit that reaction... I thought this complain was about something like that fit mom from a few months ago, but this hamster is complaining and questioning her self worth, just because the OP is a pretty amazing cook.
I'm getting thus right? English is not my native tongue so I might be getting a wrong context.
[–]1yojymbro 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前
This sub often acknowledges the way that videogames waste enormous amounts of time and leave you with nothing. Something I don't see mentioned here enough is how easy it is to waste time the same way by mindlessly browsing the internet. You're not going to be better off spending your time reading rants like this or arguing with SJWs. Nothing here relevant to your personal development. Nothing here will advance you in any way. There is nothing to be gained and too much time to be lost.
I admit I didn't read much of this post, or the thousands of repetitive comments anybody who's been here long enough has seen hundreds of time laced with SJW buzzwords, ridiculous claims, and denial, but a glance tells me that this is yet another a post of somebody saying "even if TRP is correct, you shouldn't listen because ..."-- Well, somebody like myself, and maybe yourself too, just cares what is right. Then based on what is correct and what isn't acts accordingly.
[–]TLAdaptD 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 15 分 前*
damn, you are very right. I spent a good half an hour or so wasting time reading and writing a few comments.
I should not give it shit about proving anything here is worthwhile to anyone. I'm here to improve myself, not go around trying to preach this place and debating with outsiders. It's a waste of time, and like you said, it does nothing for my personal development.
[–]sushisection 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 7 分 前
Time spent unwinding from a busy day is not time wasted.
[–]RebootedMale 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 51 分 前
If you think women don't use sexual strategy, you aren't just swallowing the blue pill, you are crushing it up and snorting it.
[–]paulinschen 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 38 分 前
But he doesn't say that! He says that if a woman uses sexual strategy (they do, just like you're doing), instead of using it yourself against her, you should both talk about it and make sure neither of you use it.
[–]RebootedMale 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 33 分 前
Baby, I know you are gaming me, but I am a sensitive man having all the feels please stay with me and don't get bored with me.
[–]albertyuthepianist 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 1 時間 前
The OP of the bestof post doesn't get it. Once a man applies redpill, both he AND the wife are happier. Her having sex with him and doing him favors are...what a normal wife does in a happy relationship.
Ultimately, for me, sexual strategy is about getting women to respect you as a man. Not a boy, but a man with sexual and emotional needs. If that's emotional abuse, then fuck.
[–]TogiBear 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 46 分 前
What the Red Pill strategy does is flip that power dynamic on its head. When it works, now it's the man who is in power and the woman who is suffering.
My main beef with his entire argument. His premise is that women are "suffering" because their man now calls the shots.
Is it really emotional abuse when you hold all the cards? He writes, "And it's damned effective in some cases. It'll get you what you want if you do it right" but he completely ignores why it works.
Women love men, but they love stronger, independent men more. When a man swallows the Red Pill and begins re-shaping his relationship strategy, it's "my rules or the road." If she doesn't like a strong, independent man he'll simply find a woman that does. It gets him what he wants because she wants do be the one to do that. She values their relationship more than anything else and she'll do whatever she can to keep him happy.
Let's revisit the term "emotional abuse": Psychological abuse, also referred to as emotional abuse or mental abuse, is a form of abuse characterized by a person subjecting or exposing another to behavior that may result in psychological trauma, including anxiety, chronic depression, or post-traumatic stress disorder.
If you take common material from TRP's sidebar and implement it in your lifestyle, does your girl exhibit any of these symptoms?
Do any /r/RedPillWomen seek therapy because their husband or boyfriend is a red pill man?
The man gets the sex without having to commit any real effort to the relationship, aside from making sure that his SO's emotions are brutally crushed on a regular basis.
A common argument from someone that doesn't know what they're talking about. RedPill does not tell you to destroy your partner's emotions, it teaches you to become her emotional pillar. RedPill does not tell you not to commit anything to the relationship, it teaches you not to commit too much, as there will be an inbalance.
that's what the Red Pill is: cold, calculated, systematic emotional torture meant to produce a desired response.
Yeah. We teach you to torture the girls you seek an emotional connection with. It's right there on the sidebar right underneath....
Oh wait, that's right. It's not there. Shame, must have been removed. I trust your word though, because you're on the front page of reddit.
You want a healthy, stable relationship that is going to be rewarding? Here's the secret. Remember that your SO is just as complex, intelligent and vulnerable a human being as you are.
Hate to break it to ya bud, but not every woman on the fucking planet is worth investing your time in a healthy, stable relationship. The key is to find the ones that do.
However, none of your relationships will work out in a healthy manner until you realize that women are people too, not animals to be broken.
Are you a creationist or something? Humans are animals. Wake up. The universe doesn't give two shits about what you think is immoral. We care about giving men the knowledge they need to forge their own happiness.
[–]VarsitySlutTeamCpt 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 49 分 前
Hah that's great advertising if you ask me.
[–]m1serablist 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 44 分 前*
I'll see most of these fuckers after their first marriage to the girl they got by just waiting for the right one and lost by just being themselves. I'm not cynical, just look at the fucking stats.
[–]2Axotl 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
You don't get a legion of haters and doubters for being wrong. Lots of new subscribers today.
[–]Ferelden 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1 時間 前
I'm pretty sure everyone hates westboro baptist. Your comment isn't accurate.
[–]legauge 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前
Don't strawman.
There's a difference between different ideologies and just hatred for the sake of hatred.
[–]Ferelden 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前
It's not really a logically sound arguement. It's straight hamstering. You know how often I would be right if my evidence for being correct was having opposition? It's just poor logic. The Churchill quote he posted afterwords was good, but I doubt Churchill was talking about the level of hate we receive. At the end of the day it doesn't matter if people hate trp. It has enhanced my life and that is all I really care about.
[–]Keanununocitum 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
The fact that WBC are universally despised and also (I think we can all agree) wrong is not contradictory with /u/Axotl's conjecture that you don't get haters for being wrong. If he had said 'the only way to get haters is to be right' or 'everyone who has haters is right', then your point would rule his inaccurate.
I'm not saying either of you are right, just pointing out a hole in the logic here.
There will always be extreme examples that don't follow the rule. I'm thinking of the Churchill quote,
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
[–]Nukakoala 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1 時間 前
Same tactics - talk to "le mens subreddits'', give little pavlovian bits of validation to every receptive lapdog.
Same emotional basis for every argument.
Same superfluous Disney bullshit.
Same "I'll tell ya fellas how bad TRP is without even reading RP theory"
Any evidence to support the post ? None, just some feel good sophistry.
I swear SRS's average IQ is in the double digits.
[–]QQ_L2P 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 16 分 前
It's a strange post. In one breath he's berating us while with the next he espouses our core values. Talk about being hot one second and cold the next. Just fuck and be done with it.
[–]holla2cents 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 14 分 前
A true awakening is realizing that you don't have to win the fight (and thereby habitually hurt someone you ostensibly care about), or lose it. That you can take your ball and go home.
The problem is he isn't separating relationship game from fuck on the first date game. People may not like to hear it, but in the game of casual sex, you are fucking, or you are celibate. Its win or lose
I'd say the majority of the content on this sub is directed toward those who are seeking casual sex, thus any person that tries to look at the "advice, or strategy" without any sort of critical thinking skills would believe you treat your wife the same as your ONS, you don't
[–]colovick 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 5 分 前
Just copying my wall of text from that thread to explain my view on the issue:
No... This is a very sad misrepresentation across the board. The goal is discussing sexual strategy and everyone and everything has a sexual strategy, whether conscious, subconscious, will thought out, or poorly planned/executed. In a sense, everyone is playing a strategy game, some things work, some things don't. People find a strategy that works for them through trial and error. It's a fact.
As for the centerpiece of this thread, the concept of abusing someone by training them is patently false. In every relationship there is a leadership role and a follower role. In any and all relationships there is a give and take, trading the leadership hat in areas where one person is better suited to leading. Places like /r/theredpill gloss over this at large due to the purpose of the sub and the overall dichotomy of human masculinity which takes a lot of introspection and study within the source materials to understand, and that is something most, if not all people who are detractors of the group fail to achieve. They see material at surface level and reject it.
This, by the way, is intentional. These things were written intentionally in such a way that the surface representation is harsh, but leads to a better understanding of the concept at hand. An example of this is the statement "women do not age emotionally past 2 years old." You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who whole heartedly believes that, but the thought conveys a feeling that helps understanding concepts like amused mastery.
Back to the previous point though, the idea of TRP being about emotional abuse is far from the truth, but it's easy to make that mistake. People are happiest when constrained. When you give them a schedule, a list of expected behaviors, and consequences for acting out, people are quantifiably happier, less depressed, and more productive. This applies to the law, it applies to running a business, it applies to raising children, and it applies to relationships. A cursory trip through /r/redpillwoman will show a group of happy people who know the traditional roles that are expected of them in such a relationship and taking a support role in the family as a first mate would on a ship. There's nothing abusive about it.
The direct analogy for punishment is disciplining a child. It's not abuse to punish a child for misbehaving, it's not letting them be spoiled. Chastising an employee for not doing the assigned work isn't harassment, it's team building and keeping them to their word. Relationships are no different. If you set ground rules of no hitting and she starts slapping you in an argument, disciplining her by leaving, dumping her, or some other means is justifiable and not abusive.
Overall I believe that their method of holding prior accountable and assuming she can make her own decisions is more pro-woman than the feminist narrative of women being inferior and a victim. Just some food for thought.
As for the concept of alpha > beta, that is also patently false and misattributed. The best way to begin learning why is to look at the extreme of "pure alpha" behavior, also known as the dark triad. It's a very real psychology concept of the behaviors expressed by very high testosterone levels which are psychopathy, sociopathy, and Machiavellianism. No feelings, no remorse, and cut throat goal driven at the expense of everything else. If you reach that point, you will get laid, you will feel awesome, and you will drive away any semblance of friends or a social circle and never have a relationship last longer than a week. This is because the behaviors known under beta are caring, comforting, and providing. And these are required to hold any sort of human companionship. The opposite of having no alpha traits, means no spark in the relationship, no sexual drive or desire from your partner. So the full answer is that you need a mix of alpha and beta behaviors and traits to maintain any healthy relationship. Here's where it gets complicated though. People generalize. Women will judge you based on how you act and lump you into a desire group or a provider group, and it becomes the man's job to do enough alpha things to stay desired, but not so much as to run them off.
Where TRP takes a different path from me as a collective is this step. Because there are no repercussions for the lower earner in a marriage (the ultimate long term relationship) cheating on their spouse or being hateful and holding divorce, compounded with alimony and child support over your head, this causes marriage in its current state to be a risky investment for a male, especially one with a high income. TRP states you should never marry and be cautious who you choose to have children with (if at all). I differ in believing that marriage should still be on the table and that refusing under any circumstances may in fact drive away someone who was worth the risk. And this is where I agree with OP that blindly following a dogma without adjusting it for your life and goals is crazy. It also happens that TRP by and large is accepting of different opinions, but what I described above is what could be called the hive decision. That said, u still believe the bulk of the information there is solid and useful enough to stay there and apply it to my life and relationships. I trust myself to be rational enough to decide for myself what to take and what to toss.
TL;DR: if you need a TL;DR for this or any other information on lifestyle choices, then TRP isn't for you anyways.
[–]thisbaseball17 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前
Is that why I'm subscribed to /r/everymanshouldknow? For opinionated, wordy manifestos that are supposed to change my entire perspective on love and relationships based on one person's life experience?
[–]ACC0007 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1 時間 前
Emotional manipulation is not a healthy basis for a relationship. Many more than "just one person" knows this. If you can get past the part where he singles out this sub and actually evaluate what is said on an unbiased level, there is some good advice in there.
[–]DrakeSaint 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前
Any manipulation which brings benefits for both parts is good. Which the guy completely misses out in his post.
TRP is one of the rare types of mindsets which clearly states you should manipulate for best interests of both parties. There are no cons in being with a TRP'er, because a true TRP'er wouldn't give two fucks if you're out. Breaking someone emotionally includes giving them zero chances of a way out, and it's always clear as water in almost every TRP post I've came across in this sub.
[–]thisbaseball17 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
Does it really qualify as /r/emsk material though? I'm not even part of this place, I just knew it would be the one place I might be able to vent about it being a sort of mass-appealing circlejerk rather than something every man should really know, like how to start a campfire. Looks like this thread is getting brigaded anyway though. We've both got the Cross of Controversy.
[–]DrakeSaint 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 1 時間 前
EMSK how to speak to the masses. That guy nailed it, I'll give him that.
[–]thebusfromspeed 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1 時間 前
EMSK how to farm karma from white knights, beta husbands, and the opposite sex.
[–]Bronotrelevant 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前
Or how to appeal to your target audience. That guy would be a good salesman.
[–]DrakeSaint -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 1 時間 前
Damn right. Hide away all irrefutable evidence that proves you wrong, then you're gold.
It's like how those anti-vaccination groups tell you how it increases autism in children, yet hide all the benefits conquered in decades of such simple yet so effective medical invention.
[–]dixiedownunder 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
Anybody who doesn't have a sexual strategy is not going to get laid. Strategy is a pretty general term. Healthy humans have always had a strategy. What an ignorant fuck.
[–]foodstampsforpussy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 1 時間 前
Who cares?? Less competition bothers me zero.
[–]Sturmgeist781 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 1 時間 前
But then it goes to way too far, linking to articles about how women shouldn't vote
Some people clearly don't understand we link satirical articles from RoK and even WE don't take said articles seriously. Jesus.
[–]redpillshadow 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1 時間 前
The women shouldn't vote articles aren't satire. Neither are the threads stating thoughts about limiting vote rights further than that (to land owners).
Don't jump that fast to that lazy "it is satire" defense. If you don't agree with it state it but don't try to redefine what theredpill is. Sure sounds like NAFALT.
[–]Sturmgeist781 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 59 分 前
If you don't agree with it state it but don't try to redefine what theredpill is.
So TRP now is against woman's right to vote and own land? I'm not redefining shit but apparently you are.
[–]redpillshadow 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 57 分 前
Those articles on RoK are not satire. Those threads are not satire.
Voicing ideas like that is part of theredpill (the subreddit) and the manosphere.
[–]Sturmgeist781 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 54 分 前
Not everything that comes from RoK is TRP. Lots of extremist shit over there can be genuinely honest from the author.
However, when was the last time you saw a thread here on this sub dead simliar to one of those extreme RoK articles?
Voicing ideas and being honest is TRP/Manosphere but it doesn't define us as a whole when one guy says "Fuck these cunts, they shouldn't vote and should be in the kitchen making sandwiches and cleaning my house."
[–]DankSinatra 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 40 分 前
I lurk here and I've seen far-right, ultra nationalist, and/or racist shit get posted fairly frequently. it disappears quickly, for what that's worth, but I think it's obvious that the rhetoric here attracts some fringe people.
[–]Sturmgeist781 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 27 分 前
Simliar to how women subreddits or women blogs attract the fringe feminist extremists.
I personally dislike far-left/far-right bullshit when it gets posted here but I don't report it because people should be able to voice their opinion here. How we react to the validity of their opinion is up to us. I haven't seen too many woman-hating threads lately. Most of us love women but hate how they behave.
It is what it is.
[–]Jerseypoor 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 41 分 前
There was a very popular post a while back about this. Granted, there was much skepticism and it was controversial.
It was titled (because I can't link due to rules): Divorce Rates: Just 1 Reason Why Women Should Have Never Been Allowed to Vote
[–]Sturmgeist781 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 29 分 前
Yea, that's pretty fucking extreme. I think I recall reading it and just closing it after a few paragraphs.
[–]Jerseypoor 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 22 分 前
Unfortunately it is what people use to portray this community. Normal people don't use extremes to generalize an entire community, but this is what TRP faces. You won't win these people over.
[–]Ragu35 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 1 時間 前
So basically just telling us not to use sexual strategy.
Fine. Let them. Better for me. It's not going to change a woman's natural desire to fuck high value men, but it will give me less competition as more men fall victim to a feel good story where they'll pretend not to live in the real world.
[–]1vandaalen 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前
I barely read more than the foreword. What a bunch of bullshit. The premise that anything else than having game is no sexual strategy at all is faulty from the start.
Being The Nice Guy (tm) and trying to talk your way into girl's panties by being their subordinated, obese, disgusting and neckbearded orbiter while watching her swallowing alpha guy's jizz until she is about to get a proteine-overdose is no sexual strategy?
Indeed it is one. Just a very dumb and lazy one. And the only possible "positive" outcome is that they might one day fuck these sluts every three months while paying for them and their offspring, which - if they really are lucky - is also their offspring.
Congs.
[–]legauge 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 50 分 前
There's one thing that the guy has completely wrong, and it's the main argument in his rant, is the sexual strategy.
In short, his definition of TRP sexual strategy can be taken from his test as:
It is inherently wrong. He assumes that "power" - a wrongful usage of the word, in my opinion - in a relationship lead by a man is absolute: all or nothing.
In the following sentence, his belief of a RP relationship goes like this:
I believe that a TRP relationship is one of male leadership for the benefits of both the man and the woman. The man leads and the woman willingly follows, and as a result, they are both happy.
However, the poster believes the RP man to be an emotionless beast that wants his dick sucked on whenever he wants. That a RP relationship is one of woman slavery and male indifference.
He believes leadership to be a "do as told or get out." However, that is not leadership. That's bossiness. The best way to describe the difference is with this picture.
A leader listens to those who follow him and takes their needs and/or desires into account before acting. In short, a leader works for the benefit of the group, or this case, the relationship.
A boss is the opposite. Instead of "do and be rewarded," it's "do or get punished." Personally, I don't believe someone in a relationship should be punished.
Now, I know that TRP strategy includes dread games. For any surface observers, it's a terrible thing to do. However, they don't understand that the point of the dread game. To keep the woman entertained, she needs to be reminded that nothing is set in stone. It's their own little drama show and they love it because it presents them with occasions to keep a spotlight on herself.
I'm not as experienced and knowledgeable as the more seasoned posters on TRP, but that's basically what I take from it all.
[–]Sound_Soul 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 48 分 前
The main problem I have with you linking to this guys post is simple. HE BASICALLY PARAPHRASES RED PILLS ANTIOBIOTIC NUKE throughout his entire post. Hes pretty fucking spot on too, especially where he discusses the fact that the majority of "red pill" examples in this place are simply men using womens' tactics.. However, I bet half of you fuckers didn't bother to even read because you saw something against this community and because you were offended from the offset your defensive beta instincts kicked in. It is a damn shame that after reading that first post I have only been met with months of misandric shitposts on this subreddit instead of the core values of realizing men and women being different, being above the game, and constantly improving yourself.
[–]sternje 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 38 分 前
TRP is a tool. In the same way that a hammer is a tool. You can use a hammer to build a house, or you can choose to hit someone over the head with the hammer. The former doesn't make the tool a "good" tool any more than the latter makes the tool a "bad" tool.
TRP is a tool to use as a means to achieve whatever ends you'd like: You want a more rounded life, you want a better body, you want a better version of yourself, to be more at ease socially, etc. TRP can also be used for less than noble (TRP detractors would say "abusive", "oppressive" or "misogynistic") intentions. And just like everything else in life, some people use this tool for good, and others use it in a self-serving, self-centered way without regard or even disdain for other people. And really, if the only thing that matters to you is you and you don't give a fuck about making other people's lives better because you became a part of it- long or short term- that's just being an asshole.
TL;DR TRP is simply a tool. Tools are neither good or bad. It's the intent of the person who uses the tool that is good or bad.
[–]RoseSausage 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 37 分 前
It seems that trp and rpw are being hit a lot on other subreddts lately. I don't understand their fascination with us. This post in particular made me feel sick. So venomous the opinions without any knowledge of the material.
[–]acartoontiger -3 ポイント-2 ポイント-1 ポイント 1 時間 前
The chain ending with the shooting reference pisses me off. No one cares what RP is actually about.
[–]PyrrhicIntent 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1 時間 前
Punch him in the face and tell him you're not playing his bullshit game.
In theory OP was right, the only way to 'win' is not play the game....
[–]niczar -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 56 分 前
They sure love sucking each other's cock.
[–][deleted] 1 時間 前*
[deleted]
[–]TLAdaptD -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 1 時間 前
WELCOME to all new Subscribers.
Please, get a cup of coffee and sit down. Read, and read, and read. I say 2 hours to 3 hours.
Now how do you feel? Can you look at your life objectively? Try meditating after all that reading. How do you feel?
Now do you think you can relate? If so, welcome, and enjoy your stay.
[–]toastedipod -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 58 分 前
https://imgur.com/a/bGiiW
And you wonder why people fucking hate the red pill, you massive arseholes.
[–]Nukakoala 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 51 分 前
That's such a nice collage, buttercup.
And you wonder why people fucking hate you massive cunts.
Thinking reddit is people.
Being hated by a community of mostly twenty-something liberal cunts and their faithful milquetoast lapdogs should be worn like a badge of honor.
[–]toastedipod -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 45 分 前
Well no, because it's not just redditors who find the red pill users disgusting, because it's been featured in newspapers. Unsurprisingly the readers also think you're stupid fucks. Anyone who needs a strategy when it comes to women must have a personality so pathetic that they need some sexist bullshit to try and get anywhere.
[–]Nukakoala 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 33 分 前
yes we are all fedora basement bla bla bla...
You unoriginal fucks need some new insults. Not that it will do any good.
This sub will grow every time you limp-wristed faggots baww in mainstream reddit about TRP.
Don't you have some muslim cock to suck britbong ?
Beat it.
[–]toastedipod -2 ポイント-1 ポイント0 ポイント 23 分 前
So are you saying you agree with the stuff I linked on imgur then?
[–]fuckingseries 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 32 分 前
You ever wonder why women are suddenly attracted to a guy with a girlfriend as opposed to before when he had none?
Or why women in their 30s whine that there are no 'nice guys' to settle down with after partying away their 20s?
Or why being a sopping wet blanket push over is unattractive to every woman ever?
Wake the fuck up.
[–]toastedipod 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 13 分 前
What I'm actually saying is that most guys (including myself) don't need some kind of fucked up strategy to get into happy, equal, fair relationships. It's only the social fuck-ups, presumably like yourself, that need some kind of game plan to avoid being kicked to the curb by women.
[–]Overkillengine -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 29 分 前
You will be envied your successes and despised for your failures.
Typical conflation of the tools with the intent. People yet again trying to defend their Disney fantasy when you can just look at the statistics and see how well that is working out in the divorce rates.
Just because you can use the red pill poorly does not follow that you will. In fact, the best advice here is centered mainly on self improvement and using red pill strategy to avoid/defuse the rampant abuse that comes from people attempting bluepill strategy beyond all common sense.
[–]jackblack2323 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント-3 ポイント 56 分 前
This subreddit is for men who are too weak to stand up to bullshit from women so you need help from others. You use shitty ways to get what you want leaving your girlfriend feeling just as shitty as the ways you get them to do stuff.
I get sex whenever I want too, want to know how I do it? I treat my girlfriend decent, and it actually feels good to treat her decent because I love her. You don't have to do everything in the relationship, just do half. House needs to be cleaned? Clean half the house while she cleans the other half. Have a few chores to do during the day? Do that while she does other chores.
If your girlfriend doesn't want to share the work then dump her ass and find someone else, but don't make her do more shit than you.
If you can't love someone, I have some advice for you to have sex and not even have to go through all of the bullshit: Pay a prostitute. This way you don't have to ruin someones life and treat them like shit. If you don't love them anyway, there's no reason to keep them around. Also paying a prostitute is cheaper than a girlfriend, so have at it.
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