1
81
82

'Islam-is-peace' update: Malaysia Muslim leader: "We will chop off the heads of those who insult Islam" (malaysiakini.com)

submitted by sachmo_muse

sorted by:
best
best
トップ
新着
注目
論争中
古い順
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]UnoriginalMike 13 ポイント14 ポイント

Yes, religious extremists are extreme.

This does not mean that all Muslims, or anything but an extremely small minority, agree with this sentiment.

[–]JHStarner 23 ポイント24 ポイント

Paraphrasing from a recent video:

The peaceful majority are irrelevant. The extremist minority will still attack. This is true for more than just Islam.

[–]UnoriginalMike 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Yes they will.

That does not mean we need to become an anti-Islam or anti-Muslim sub. We can be an anti-extremist sub. That's fine. But let's not be what the other side of the isle says we are.

[–]iamyourbuddyforever 12 ポイント13 ポイント

We are anti-extremist which is why OP posted his link...

[–]JHStarner 8 ポイント9 ポイント

But here is the problem.

On the Right wing, you have people trying their hardest to paint most of Islam in a negative light.

On the Left wing, you have people saying it is not nice to talk about or mention the extremists at all, let alone that they are Muslim.

On the actual Muslim side, you have very little of PEACEFUL Majority condemning or speaking out against their extremist kin. They are either silent, or trying to remind everyone that most of them are Peaceful.

Call a spade a spade. Stop pussy-footing around the issue. There are extremely dangerous sects of this "peaceful" religion. Call it what it is. They are Muslim Terrorists and Muslim Extremists. That doesn't condemn the whole, but it does properly address the issue.

[–]banjoistI love Obama! -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I don't think left wingers say it's not nice to talk about extremists. However, as a left winger, I would agree it's of drastic importance to identify them as Muslim. Maybe not so much I'm the sense that they are religious per se, but it could be of use in determining the extremists' motivations and tools or recruitment. Agreed again that it does not condemn the whole.

[–]poonhounds 2 ポイント3 ポイント

There are plenty of moderate muslims. There is no moderate Islam.

Moderate Muslims are like Catholics who have pre-marital sex or use condoms. They behave this way in spite of the scriptural teachings of the church, not because of it.

[–]gangrenous_ghoul 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Yes, there is a small minority of very extremist Muslims...

But there is also a VERY VERY large minority of slightly less extreme mainstream Muslims.

[–]PolymarchosMonarchist 11 ポイント12 ポイント

Yet we see more hate toward Christians based on their extremists - who loudly protest funerals and not much else - than toward the Muslim extremists who are out chopping off heads.

[–]UnoriginalMike 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I agree. Hating Christians is politically correct, hating Muslims is not. Hating white people is politically correct, hating Arab or Persian people is not. Hating men is politically correct, hating women is not.

That doesn't mean we are allowed to be politically incorrect without being called racist, intolerant, sexist, etc. Like it or not, this is so ingrained in modern culture most people follow it so instinctively they do not even think about it.

In short, do I think people are harder on Christian extremists than Muslim extremists for far lesser crimes? On reddit they certainly are, and I'm sure in some social circles in real life. But I don't hang out with any of those people so I don't know for sure.

I am getting tired of seeing so many posts in this sub that are so anti-Muslim and anti-Islam. The extremism is certainly a problem, but the amount of posts regarding it seems far greater than it warrants.

If you need a more superficial reason, try this: the high number of posts that come across as anti-Muslim or anti-Islam gives plenty of ammunition to those that wish to label us the party of intolerance. Something which I have vehemently denied, but am starting to doubt.

[–]JHStarner 3 ポイント4 ポイント

There in lies your problem. Catering to the majority because you want to save face. There was a phrase used in the military a lot, and it is frustrating. "Perception is Reality". Everyone who subscribes to this mentality is an idiot. This is the exact opposite of "Don't judge a book by its cover".

Just because the public narrative has been hijacked, and labels truth as insensitivity or racism, does not make it so. The moment you kowtow to the narrative because you are afraid of "giving ammunition" to the opposing viewpoint, you have already lost the debate.

[–]TheHumanityFront 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Find an American politician who has openly attacked Christianity. If it's "politically correct", it should be very easy to do.

[–]BigMrC -1 ポイント0 ポイント

There's this guy named Barry......

[–]TheHumanityFront 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I can't find him ever openly attacking Christianity

[–]trulyoutrageousgems -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I think we see a lot of hate for both. One thing to note is that Christians protesting funerals is much closer to home than the Muslims chopping off heads in the Middle East. Although I heard of it happening once in the UK.

[–]Mister_Johnson -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

"They will know you are Christians by your love". The westboro baptist church holds no legitimate claim to Christianity.

[–]wethedownvotedNeoconservative 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I think it's ridiculous how people will draw parallels between Christianity's "extremists" like Westboro and abortion clinic bombers, and Islam and terrorists.

The proportions are just nowhere near being the same. Westboro is like what, 10-20 people tops? Abortion clinic bombers maybe 2-3? What percentage of 2 billion is that?

Then we are supposed to believe this is analogous to the 10% to 25% terrorists (depending who you believe) out 1 billion Muslims.

And this is before we even begin talking about the differing levels of violence -- in Westboro's case.... ah forget it. People that compare Westboro to terrorists are flat out non-functional humans.

[–]fughp 9 ポイント10 ポイント

http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

where is the extremly small minority? like 63% of Egyptians believing that you should be killed for leaving islam? or 85% of Pakistanians believing that you should be stoned for adultery?

Why are people living in this delusion that these views are held only amongst minorities?

[–]benkenobie 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Well, to be fair, in accordance with their holy book the punishment for apostasy is death, so....yeah.

[–]JHStarner 1 ポイント2 ポイント

That points out another issue in this whole discussion. Out of the world-wide Muslim population, yes the extremists are a minority. But when you set the percentage by each nation, you see the extremists are the majority in that country or geographic region. This is one of the wonderful skewing capabilities of statistics. Bottom line, the extremists are a bigger deal than what people are Political Correctly minimizing.

[–]TheHumanityFront 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Stop looking at those countries and look at Bosnia and Herzegovina, Albania, and Kosovo. These countries are all predominately Muslim, but they do not share these extremist views. What's different about these places? They are all relativity wealthy and stable. Extremism thrives in places that do not have characteristics.

[–]abaps 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Like Saudi Arabia?

[–]TheHumanityFront -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Most people in Saudi Arabia are quite poor. The rich, however, are very very rich.

[–]Rebbitman 3 ポイント4 ポイント

It's not as small as many think. Obviously the amount of people who would actually behead people is low, but how many would actually be okay with that?

It's estimated that as many as 25% of Muslims are Radical, and support things like suicide bombing and oppression of women. There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, and 25% of 1.2B is 300M - they could make a US-sized country full of these extremists.

[–]GregorPike 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Malaysia Muslim Leader. Imagine if the pastor of a mega church said shit like this in the states. Imagine if a bishop said things like this.

[–]zenontherocks 5 ポイント6 ポイント

They're not extremists. They're just devoted. Muhammed was a warlord (among other things) who commanded his followers to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

Sometimes tolerance is ignorance.

[–]trulyoutrageousgems 3 ポイント4 ポイント

The Jews of the Old Testament were also warlike. Fortunately Jews don't continue to do that.

[–]banjoistI love Obama! -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Plenty of Christian wars throughout history as well. Religious war is not the domain of any one religion.

Edit: Islam just seems to be the one that has the baton right now.

[–]Mister_Johnson 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Islam just seems to be the one that has (held) the baton right now since its creation.

[–]banjoistI love Obama! -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Except for, you know, the whole Crusades and stuff. Kinda thrust upon them.

Edit: saying it's since it's creation is ignoring a lot about Mohammed's feelings about Christians: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad's_views_on_Christians

Edit 2: Thanks for the I love Obama flair. I honestly don't. Thanks for labeling me with some straw man tactic. Well played!

Edit 3: Sorry. Mistook my falacies. Automatic ad hominem for whatever I post I guess. Sorry for an attempt at discussion.

(Not directed at Mister_Johnson)

[–]logicalthinker1Libertarian Conservative 3 ポイント4 ポイント

What percentage of Muslims think you should be killed for leaving the religion? What do you think the percentage is? What percentage would constitute an extreme population? I'll share the data with you but I want you to guess first.

[–]Jive_Bob 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I heard the other day it's around a quarter of all muslims classified as extremists. That's a lot of people.

[–]uniquecannon2nd Amendment Activist 2 ポイント3 ポイント

There is no way. It's more in the lower single digits.

[–]JobieWanKenobi 2 ポイント3 ポイント

even if it's one percent, that's a million plus radicals

[–]Jive_Bob 1 ポイント2 ポイント

http://youtu.be/Ry3NzkAOo3s. Not sure where her numbers come from but similar to the ones I found.

[–]Jive_Bob 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You gotta realize in some countries radical is the norm. I just read something else that put it around 15...and that 80 percent of Muslim clerics are classified as radical...some Harvard professor does a lot on this. Unless radical and extremist are different ?

[–]doyouevenbro 2 ポイント3 ポイント

citation needed

[–]chabanaisFortis est veritas 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Just that the leaders of every Muslim nation have these things commonly happening.

Got it.

[–]freeyourballs 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Give me some % for your extremely small minority. Because an extremely small minority is not enough to overthrow countries.

What you have said is the same thing that we have heard for the last 13 years. Yet we still haven't heard the great outcry from the "majority" of Muslims. Where are the great outcries from the Muslim communities speaking out against the hijacking of Islam? I am afraid THAT is the group that fits your extremely small minority description and many of the other Muslims are stuck in the middle out of fear for their lives.

And as far as your "religious extremists are extreme", go sell that tired phrase somewhere where people don't think for themselves. What religion that would have anyone classified as extremists under this definition outside of Islam? That phrase is just another way for liberals to try to equate all religion with evil.

[–]Baerke -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

The stereotypical Western-Muslims are very much unlike the Saudi, Pakistani, Irani, Sudan, Afghani and Iraqi Muslims. They're not as small of a minority as you might think when you realize all those nations effectively enforce Sharia law.