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Reddit's new "% like this" system encourages trolling and vote fixing, or, why Reddit is officially dead (self.conspiracy)

submitted by dieyoung - stickied post

To understand why the new system is detrimental to the integrity of the site, you must understand why the basic algorithm regulating the ranking of posts is flawed. This blog post that has 3900+ cumulative upvotes on /r/technology clearly illustrates the way time is a huge and deciding factor in which submissions are shown on the front page. Take the time to read the article (which is relatively short) to understand how, technically speaking, fast acting votes affect the ranking of submissions. In a sentence, the newer a post is, the more susceptible it is to up/downvotes affecting it's position on the 'what's hot' section, aka, the front page.

This is crucial. The author of the article explains a hypothetical situation where a vote rigger with multiple sock puppet accounts can completely skew the sentiment of a submission in any subreddit.

Imagine a hypothetical subreddit, /r/BirdPics, devoted to pictures of birds. An attacker despises puffins, and wants to keep all pictures of puffins off the front page. This attacker can downvote every picture of puffins, but will be outgunned by the other users who like and upvote puffin pics. On average, 350 people are watching the front page of this subreddit at any one time, so that’s a lot of upvotes to contend with.

Instead, our attacker will watch the new submissions very carefully, and the moment a puffin pic is submitted, immediately downvote it. If the attacker gets to the picture first, it will go negative and be utterly exiled, never again touching the front page. The only thing the attacker needs to worry about are the people watching the “New” ranking, which ignores votes. Our hypothetical subreddit only averages 10 people on the New page, so our attacker can defeat them simply by maintaining 10 sock puppet accounts, instead of the ~300 that would be needed to defeat the front page users. Just like that, our attacker has scrubbed the subreddit of all puffin pics, and the world is a poorer place for it.

It is obvious how this can be applied to political opinions that are not held by the mainstream.

Because of the new system where up/downvotes are hidden, trolls and vote bots are now able to skew the ranking data much more dramatically and can effectively permanently alter the content of a given sub. The fact that downvotes are invisible makes it impossible to know whether a particular submission has a suspicious amount of up/downvote activity, especially when a sub hides the score of a comment for a given amount of time (allegedly to combat vote rigging).

Some users, (myself included) have noticed these strange increases in downvoting at specific intervals and have advocated using the /new/ section of this sub to combat trolling and vote rigging. It seems now like even that vigilance is futile...

This is huge. Reddit is officially dead. Voting does not matter anymore as the content that reaches the front page can be, at any time, manipulated by a small group of infiltrators. It was bad before, but we have just passed the point of no return.

The only question is: What do we do now?

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[–]axolotl_peyotl 67 ポイント68 ポイント

Reddit, we hardly knew ye...

Oh wait, we actually know reddit quite well by now, and it's been an excruciatingly slow and painful death, hasn't it?

Every single comment I read in the announcement thread was vehemently opposed to this change.

[–]quantumcipher 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Let's face it: Reddit is seriously fucked. Anyone who doesn't run the site can see that clearly at this point. Even journalists covering the /r/technology and /r/worldnews censorship controversies can see what this site has become, in stark contrast to what it once was and what it once represented (RIP Aaron Schwartz).

Still, it's not too late for reddit to address these grievances reasonably, to actually stand by their users, who made this site what it is, rather than rigid policy and outside influences. Of course we all know that's going to happen..

[–]phunnyphukker 8 ポイント9 ポイント

There is more and more marketing on here every day. Eliminating the ability for the audience to affect the content goes a long way to benefitting their sponsors.

[–]5arge 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Isn't that the ultimate goal of the change?

[–]AssuredlyAThrowAway 54 ポイント55 ポイント

Every single comment I read in the announcement thread was vehemently opposed to this change.

Exactly, and then you have the admins going around saying "the completely expected negative knee jerk reaction to the change"; as if that somehow negates the overwhelming sentiment of the community against what they just did.

There is something more to this change than a desire to stop people saying "why the downvotes", and it reeks of corporate bullshit.

[–]MrGobekli 28 ポイント29 ポイント

People should check the top post on /r/all at the moment. Along with most of r/AdviceAnimals right now, it's making a concerted effort to quash opposition to the change. Lot's of 'who cares' sentiment pushed to the top along with an argument that only RES users care/are affected.

[–]trollboogies 19 ポイント20 ポイント

I noticed this too... Hate to say it but it reeks of propaganda

[–]Zenof 11 ポイント12 ポイント

Sorry to hijack. Here is a place where you can cast your vote... 3/4ths have already voted heavily against it. Make your voice heard...

[–]Lizzardis 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Thank you for this.

I shall bookmark this, and make sure to link it to any thread or comment that mentions something about the new change. It is vital people opinions are heard, especially when they're presented in such a sophisticated way.

What happens with this data though? I mean.. Who's going to pass it into the admins?

[–]VeniVidiUpVoti 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Only people against the change are voting. Its completely biased as those like myself, who realize it makes zero difference arent going to waste their time.

[–]Zenof 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I notified the figure head what the outcome would be if they didn't comply with reddit's wishes.

We'll wait and see.

[–]Lagavulin 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Isn't that the same case with most elections?

Just sayin'...

[–]Zenof -1 ポイント0 ポイント

LOL POINTS

[–]principle 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Solution Proposal

Get rid of the down votes. Replace Up/Down Vote System with Activity Level System (ALS). ALS shows a level of interest in the post or comment and is set by an on-off check mark button to indicate interest. The ALS could show number of "on" clicks plus a number of comments (in the post or comments responding to a comment) multiplied by a preset factor (because responding comments should be wighted more then a click).

Since ALS is always a positive number showing interest, ALS cannot be used in a negative way since any action would only promote a post or a comment, i.e., any activity whether in support or opposition would improve the ranking (which is ALS over time).

[–]fractalfrenzy -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Where is the announcement thread?

[–]nireon 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Good. Honestly it is quite a hassle to find honest to good people on here anymore anyway. Not this subreddit but the attitude in general here as of the last few years has been no better than YouTube comments or an Xbox Live experience with 16 year olds.

For example I look forward to a few AMA and the top comments are ALWAYS lame internet jokes/memes, 12 year old jokes or puns or just something ridiculous. Reddit used to be decent but I think that ship has long sailed a long time ago, at least in my experience. I look forward to whatever is new.

[–]Ploxl 12 ポイント13 ポイント

/r/redditalternatives

[–]redditeditard 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Interesting post there: http://www.reddit.com/r/RedditAlternatives/comments/1tlvs4/seriously_thanks_for_the_alternatives_im_looking/

[–]ViciousCycle 29 ポイント30 ポイント

RE-ENABLE ADBLOCK OR INSTALL IT

Gotta hit them in the wallet. Only thing they'll listen to.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 16 ポイント17 ポイント

Did anyone actually disable adblock solely because they were asked to by reddit, inc.?

[–]Moarbrains 18 ポイント19 ポイント

I did. Also on any other site that I liked and didn't have intrusive ads.

[–]memo_rx 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I did also, not anymore

[–]metapunditedgy 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Hi, I'm from Google. We're so awesome, could you please disable adblock so we can pay the people who clean our offices? Every click you gives us increases the goodness in the world.

[–]youAreThirstyNow 2 ポイント3 ポイント

You can disable it for specific sites. If reddit ads aren't obtrusive and you wanted to support them there was reason to disable it here.

[–]IdRatherBeLurking 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I still do. The uproar over this nonsense is hilarious.

[–]s70n3834r -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Sound just like regular folks when they ask you to do that, don't they. I never forget exactly what Reddit is.

[–]quantumcipher 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I admit, I did when I was more supportive of the site and its policies, as a gesture of good will. Oh how naive I was to even bother to do so.

[–]Au_Is_Heavy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Nope.

[–]DK_Schrute 5 ポイント6 ポイント

There's been a whole weird thing with gold in the last 24 hours too. People calling for a halt to gold giving - obviously....but this strange...potentially artificial backlash. Hundreds of gold given out as a sort of slap in the face to the idea....when clearly most of reddit is very opposed to the change.

I just wonder if there are some reddit inc. henchmen just throwing gold around trying to buy back popularity with this stunt.

[–]ProG87 4 ポイント5 ポイント

#savethepuffins

[–]Licence2Shill 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Digg 2.0

[–]ptd163 10 ポイント11 ポイント

You forgot to mention how the admins are giving out gold to anyone who voices negative criticism or suggests to boycott gold as a way to discredit them.

An AdviceAnimals post that suggested people not buy gold in protest turned into gold train.

Comments from the thread where it got bestof'd.

[–]-DocHopper- 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Also made that post a bestof.

[–]TheGhostOfDusty -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I've seen this technique before:

[–]iamagod___ -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Money! (En italiano)

[–]khamul787 1 ポイント2 ポイント

the admins are giving out gold to anyone who voices negative criticism or suggests to boycott gold as a way to discredit them.

Proof?

[–]iDroidManiac 2 ポイント3 ポイント

If we had proof it wouldn't be in r/conspiracy

[–]iamagod___ -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Your own eyeballs and the ability to think critically. Strangely a deficit in some.

[–]khamul787 0 ポイント1 ポイント

In other words, no, there is no proof. Just the classic "open your eyes" bullshit.

[–]tele87 8 ポイント9 ポイント

That blog post you are referring to has old information.

They changed the algorithm: http://www.outofscope.com/reddits-empire-no-longer-founded-on-a-flawed-algorithm/

Here's the reddit thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1y2oba/reddits_empire_no_longer_founded_on_a_flawed/

[–]dieyoung[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Ah so it is. Thank you for the updated article.

The increased probability of trolling and vote manipulation due to scores being hidden is still very real. Although maybe now voting on /new/ may not have the effect it did before the algorithm was fixed, vote brigades and bots can simply downvote whatever they like into oblivion without being noticed. Taking away the up/down vote ratio makes it impossible to know whether or not something is suspiciously manipulated or not.

The point that I was making was that even the technique of keeping a watchful eye on the /new/ section to combat vote manipulation is futile now since anything can just be voted on by however many sock puppet accounts you want.

[–]tele87 3 ポイント4 ポイント

No go ahead make your point. Just saying that you can't downvote new posts to oblivion anymore according to what I linked.

[–]dieyoung[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Wait, are you saying you can't mass downvote new posts using the new hidden votes system?

[–]tele87 2 ポイント3 ポイント

From what I understood the issue was that if you downvoted a new post before it got any upvotes it would disappear, and that's what they fixed.

As before, the rankings are now positive with the new algorithm. But the biggest change is that newer submissions now rank higher than older ones. You'd think that would have been the case before, but submissions with a negative scores would quickly disappear from the front page with the previous flawed algorithm. Now, these stories have at least a chance to show up if their score isn't too abysmal.

Also see this comment thread: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1y2oba/reddits_empire_no_longer_founded_on_a_flawed/cfgys4q

[–]gizadog 9 ポイント10 ポイント

This is BS! Does this mean I can get a Gold refund?

[–]metapunditedgy 2 ポイント3 ポイント

It may, actually. Their service has changed. Democratic Underground used to repay donations when people asked, I believe, as their base become tired of the manipulative mods.

[–]AssuredlyAThrowAway 15 ポイント16 ポイント

I think this change also was designed to discourage the posting of controversial opinions in comments. Perhaps they are getting ready to sell.

[–]LetsHackReality 6 ポイント7 ポイント

I think it's already been "sold".

[–]AssuredlyAThrowAway 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I think the spin off reddit inc is next on the chopping block.

[–]sunflowerblues 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Isn't it obvious - forget the "hot" section, where hot = bogus, and only peruse the new section.

[–]magnora2 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Has anyone else noticed the ridiculous numbers of "oh it doesn't matter anyway" posts that have hit the front page today? I'd guess the admins are vote-gaming that type of idea to the top, as PR damage control, but I guess we'll never know now, huh?

[–]istalkezreddit 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Ever since they started the corporate whoring and NSA worship, shill promoting and control of subreddits I've been looking for something exactly like whoaverse.com. An opensource reddit clone.

[–]21022012 3 ポイント4 ポイント

i saw a 911 related topic the other day that had 5up votes and 7down votes and zero comments, good or bad. with the old system i knew what was up......

[–]BipolarsExperiment 10 ポイント11 ポイント

whoaverse.com

sign up

abandon this sinking ship

[–]axolotl_peyotl 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Haha one of my peeps already nabbed axolotl_peyotl...

FTR I signed up as axolotl__peyotl with a second underscore.

The larger underscore is a euphemism for something and by something I mean my penis.

[–]thats-karma 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Just got /u/Karma

I like it allready

[–]BipolarsExperiment 0 ポイント1 ポイント

LOL

[–]eagleshigh 2 ポイント3 ポイント

damn that looks like a solid site. will it have all of the subreddits reddit has?

[–]BipolarsExperiment 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Works the same way, click the "create your own subverse" button and make any that you notice missing. I made a few already today

[–]johnysmote 4 ポイント5 ポイント

whoaverse.com

I signed up!

[–]BipolarsExperiment 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Start blowing up the new queue!

http://whoaverse.com/v/conspiracy

[–]SovereignMan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Thanks for the link. I just created an account and three new subverses: /v/911Truth, /v/Worldnews and /v/WorldPolitics. I was surprised /v/Worldnews was still available... /v/Politics wasn't.

[–]BipolarsExperiment 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I tried a few and they were taken already lol. Good job though, subbing now

edit: n/m i forgot we can't sub yet :o

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 2 ポイント3 ポイント

More importantly, anyone who's good with web design/dev should step up and help the guy who created that site get it up and running. He's currently doing it all by himself.

[–]BipolarsExperiment -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I wish I could help, but I don't know the first thing about any of that stuff :(

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Me neither, I've just been trying to get the word out as best I can.

[–]BipolarsExperiment 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Same since seeing his post this morning

[–]bigglesxyz 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Needs to be a more catchy name. Not to be a downer but, dragging people to something that is just.. still reddit? but called whoaverse.com

[–]707Paladin 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Maybe redidit.com or something? Lol

[–]dieyoung[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

That is an awesome name

[–]707Paladin 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I can be clever when I choose to be. :)

[–]BipolarsExperiment 2 ポイント3 ポイント

It's just a copy/paste of open source software. The owner has an open mind, you need to start somewhere and making it look/feel like a place we're all comfortable with is a good start imo.

[–]IntellisaurDinoAlien 1 ポイント2 ポイント

And how long before a govt. agent tells them how it's going to be now?

[–]d8_thc -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Me too.

[–]SlightlyOTT 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I get why this change is bad, but can you explain how it affects the attack scenario you mentioned? I can see that it stops you telling something is suspicious from the up/downvote counts, but you could only do that by viewing the post.

So assuming you're not looking at the new queue (in which case the attack doesn't work, as discussed) how does the new system allow more effective censorship? I'm not accusing you of lying, I'm just wondering what I'm missing here.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It's mainly comment censorship that will be affected. Comments will be buried much, much easier - especially in the bigger subs.

No difference now between +2/-1 and +64/-63.

[–]quantumcipher 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It's mainly comment censorship that will be affected. Comments will be buried much, much easier - especially in the bigger subs.

No difference now between +2/-1 and +64/-63.

And brigading can be hidden and subsequently ignored only that much easier as a result.

[–]tormunkov 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I had to search for an article about the new voting system. I caught a glimpse of one on the front page of all, but then I read a different article first and by the time I returned, it was gone.

I'm surpised this article isn't already suppressed.

But then, what if most users like the new system, and this article is actually the one being kept higher than deserved in the rankings through sock puppet accounts?

[–]StartSelect 0 ポイント1 ポイント

http://whoaverse.com/v/announcements/comments/6181

[–]rownin 1 ポイント2 ポイント

sounds like a good opportunity for the next "reddit"

[–]know_comment 1 ポイント2 ポイント

RES could still calculate vote count based on the points and % upvoted.

right now this post has 236 points with an 88% upvote ratio. So there are 273 upvotes and 37 downvotes.

[–]Cropgun 1 ポイント2 ポイント

People who maintain 10 accounts are punishing themselves.

[–]GoodShillHunting 1 ポイント2 ポイント

just another propaganda dispenser

[–]casualredditreader 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Join the rebirth here: http://whoaverse.com

[–]iamagod___ 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The more I read about this flaw, and their lack of interest in resolving with a one line code change, makes me feel it was included for someone's benefit intentionally. If puffins are truth, I see very little of them today. Puffin haters are in our midst.

[–]Lucifer4Wisdom 2 ポイント3 ポイント

it could always be manipulated. the removing of the upvote/downvote counter just removes a very small (but important) value that would allow you to determine how severely manipulated it could be.

but one simply needs to trust their instinct.... but given the wide spectrum of instinct I have seen on here through the years.... maybe thats bad advice.

fuck it. do something in the real world. learn a craft. father a child. quibbling over two numbers is a waste of a good mind.

[–]dieyoung[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

but given the wide spectrum of instinct

But the thing is, its clear how easy it is to manipulate that. This change has effectively castrated any awareness for this type of 'interest manipulation'.

[–]IAmNotHariSeldon 11 ポイント12 ポイント

It's still the largest political forum in history. I hate to see it end this way. Removing the vote-tally is insane. It only serves to enable the rampant content manipulation even further.

The justification is bullshit, it's all about content control.

[–]BurritoNt -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

It's still the largest political forum in history.

lol what? Reddit isn't actually very big, it's quite small in respect to the general population.

[–]IAmNotHariSeldon 4 ポイント5 ポイント

OK so what is the biggest political forum then?

[–]Agrumh 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I hate the new Reddit. Corporate or government takeover is afoot. Maybe both. I have noticed a ton of posts lately that are very suspicious.

[–]ekudram 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Bye Bye reddit.

[–]alllie 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Well some of the paid placement you could look at the votes and tell it was fixed.

[–]needsmoregridcells 2 ポイント3 ポイント

The fact that downvotes are invisible makes it impossible to know whether a particular submission has a suspicious amount of up/downvote activity

This is categorically false.

[–]boost_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント

is this "% like this" system implemented already? because i don't see it anywhere.

[–]--install-suggests 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It's submissions only, and it's up in the top right corner.

It isn't actually a new feature. It's always been there, but it also used to show the upvote/downvote totals as well.

[–]davanillagorilla 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I have never seen "% like this" anywhere, and I still can't find it.

[–]--install-suggests 0 ポイント1 ポイント

https://i.imgur.com/BzkT0Z8.png

[–]davanillagorilla 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm an idiot who never looks at the sidebar I guess, thanks.

[–]BAckwaterRifle -1 ポイント0 ポイント

How would one get the sock puppet accounts to work? what level of coding would be required? (easy or hard) just a couple questions I have if any can answer them.

[–]dieyoung[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

All you have to do is sign up with another user name. You don't even have to give an e-mail, and with RES you can be on multiple accounts at once.

[–]BAckwaterRifle -1 ポイント0 ポイント

how hard is it to make a bot though? I understand the shill concept, that's really quite easy.

[–]geneseee -1 ポイント0 ポイント

It's trivial.

[–]larzone 0 ポイント1 ポイント

yeah, good luck forging a cross site request to a site running on django with no programming experience.. the guy will be shadow banned before he knows what hit him

[–]muzzy_logan -1 ポイント0 ポイント

It's going to be sad remembering when Reddit was the last frontier. The day will come when We will try to explain to our children as to why my online persona goes by the name of..." LoVEs2faP?

[–]boldtu -1 ポイント0 ポイント

well I will up vote all of this valuable information you have shared.

seriously, I learned a lot form that article. Thank you

[–]XFriday -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Hey, this will probably not be seen, but how about the programmers of reddit step up, and build a browser plugin that simulates the upvote/downvote behavior? Use reddit for the content and commentary.. browse as normal.. but upvote and downvote through a private system?

[–]umatbru 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You could go to my forum: http://uwgov.freeforums.net

[–]Aplusplusplus 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Digg died, and the masses fled to Reddit. Now that Reddit is dying, we must all go to 4chan.

[–]txstoploss[🍰] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It doesn't matter what we do. Any alternative that causes a serious percentage of Redditors to 'vote with their feet' will be bought out within six months by the same old oligarchy.

[–]MrGobekli 6 ポイント7 ポイント

And then you move on to the next one. Why the fuck do people give loyalty to social networks, corporations and banks?

You're using the same excuse fuckheads that stayed with WhatsApp use.

[–]txstoploss[🍰] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Why the fuck do people give loyalty to social networks, corporations and banks?

Because Grandma told them, "I've used Ford / Kellog's / GE / Gerber all my life"?

TBH, I don't understand it, either; the big corporations moan weekly about the Millennials' lack of "brand loyalty". Inertia, however, is just as powerful as more dynamic physical forces.

[–]metapunditedgy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Not true.

[–]Donnie69 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

How did the old system not allow this? From what you're saying, based on the descriptions of both systems, this kind of /New/ vote brigading is possible in both.

[–]Yserbius -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

I think a lot of people are misunderstanding what's happening. The numbers were always hidden. Read the blog post for a more detailed explanation, but basically the numbers of upvotes and downvotes were fake. Every single post and comment once it reached a certain volume would have fake upvotes and downvotes added to it which is why all top submissions would be in the 55-65% range. This was done to fool spam bots.

One of the main reasons why the admins chose to change the system was their annoyance and having to constantly explain to people that no, 900 people did not downvote this.

The change is actually an improvement in a way. Now, the percentage is closer to the actual ratio of upvotes to downvotes and still maintains the protection against spam bots.

The one thing it can't show is if a submission gets a huge amount of downvotes and no upvotes, but oh well.

[–]jesuslol 8 ポイント9 ポイント

What about when some users outed one of the mods of /r/AdviceAnimals to be the owner and creator of QuickMeme.com, by studying the upvotes/downvotes of his submissions versus competing sites, which ended up getting the site banned from reddit?

http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1gvnk4/quickmeme_is_banned_redditwide_more_inside/cao99l6

Can't do that now.

[–]Yserbius -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Actually, yes you can. You can tell if a certain domain has a higher percentage of upvotes when other domains are near %0. Also, this wasn't what busted the mods. They were removing all livememe.com posts and posts from competing meme sites. The vote manipulation via alt-accounts was only discovered later.

Also, reddit has built in filters for accounts from the same IP address voting on the same submission.

[–]metapunditedgy 2 ポイント3 ポイント

If reddit doesn't show vote counts (even if they are manipulated), I don't trust them to show the percentage accurately.

They're obviously trying to hide manipulation (sorry PHOY, I guess that bullshit on /r/politics never did sell).

[–]Yserbius -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

It's only obvious if you're convinced that they are a nefarious group trying to bring down the users. What is obvious is that submissions are no longer always between 60 and 70 percent. That seems to be proof enough that the new system shows more accurate votes.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 9 ポイント10 ポイント

You completely neglected to mention that vote counts no longer appear for comments either, which is the main way to notice and combat brigading.

[–]Yserbius -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I did. To quote my original comment:

Every single post and comment once it reached a certain volume would have fake upvotes and downvotes added to it

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Yes but the net total remained the same, allowing a way for people to gauge how a post/comment was received.

[–]Yserbius -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

So what's changed? You can still see the net total, even on a vanilla desktop browser without extensions. That's always been a part of reddit.

[–]Ambiguously_Ironic 4 ポイント5 ポイント

On a small sub, or on a post that hasn't gotten much attention, there's a world of difference between +3/-0 and +15/-12. This is particularly true on posts and comments that get brigaded.

Less transparency isn't a good thing.

[–]Yserbius -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

That's true and it's the one disadvantage of the new system. But this is hardly the apocalyptic mayhem that everyone is making it out to be. Especially when you consider that +15/-12 on the old system was probably more like +7/-4.

[–]cafi -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Comment scores were never "fuzzed". Only post scores were.

No we have a 100|2 comment judged the same as a 100|99 comment.

And there is a huge difference. Even psychologically for new users coming into a thread and seeing the comments for the first time.

[–]Yserbius -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

No, comment scores were fudged in a very similar fashion. I ran a few experiments at times. High scoring comments were guaranteed to have around %30 downvotes. Mid-ranged comments were closer to %20. And no comment would ever get to 7 or above without seeing at least one.

And they would change from minute to minute. A comment at +7/-3 one minute may be +6/-2 the next. And this went for comments that were weeks old, so it wasn't like people would be constantly switching their votes.

[–]21022012 0 ポイント1 ポイント

zioshill loves the change shocker!

[–]Flytape 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Often times I would see an unpopular post down voted heavily and there would be a noticeable correlation of comments that were likewise negative.

Other times I would see a post down voted heavily where most, if not all, of the comments were very positive. These incidents are very suspicious to me, and I liked having the ability to analyze the fuzzy data for myself. I can no longer do that.

If reddit thought the numbers were useless, why not make the numbers useful instead of just removing them? Surely they can find a way to rank submissions without fuzzing the numbers.

So instead of removing data all together, make it more accessible! Make it true!

[–]IntellisaurDinoAlien 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I just pissed myself laughing when the frontpage said 'powered by democracy, powered by you!' before I logged in. Why not shit in my cereals too?

[–]Yserbius -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

I don't know why they kept the useless system in place for this long. It had something to do with tricking spam bots and vote bots.

And what do you consider "down voted heavily"? Like I said, the total was the only thing that mattered, not the down vote number. Either way, I don't find those things suspicious. It has a lot to do with the type of guy who would glance at a submission and upvote or downvote versus the guy who would read the submission and comment on it. Much of the time I find that a submission with a catchy click-bait title (SNOWDEN REVEALS HOW US TROOPS MASSACRED MALAYSIANS!!) get tons of upvotes even though the comments may be about how the article is heavily biased and the story is full of holes.

[–]digger_ex_pat 0 ポイント1 ポイント

What about user like me who use Reddit Reveal? Are those number fake?

[–]Yserbius 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Yes.

All the upvote/downvote numbers on every tool (such as RES, Reddit Reveal or various Android apps) come from the same source, the reddit client API. You can see the raw data for yourself by adding .json to the end of any reddit link. And all of those numbers are fudged to a certain percentage, about 30% of the votes are fake, so if you see 70 upvotes and 30 downvotes, the reality is probably more like 45 upvotes and 5 downvotes.

[–]totes_meta_bot -1 ポイント0 ポイント

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

[–]dieyoung[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント

I'm honored.

[–]BipolarsExperiment 6 ポイント7 ポイント

They're angry because i'm squatting on /v/conspiratard lol

[–]GoodShillHunting 0 ポイント1 ポイント

lol how they like them apples?!?!

[–]xhukyx 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I'm going to be honest: I sometimes crosspost at conspiratard. But this is fucking stupid. Make fun of this subreddit when we claim that the Bush Family is a bunch of reptilians that crashed holograms into the WTC, not when we get upset that one of the biggest online forums in the world just became less transparent.

[–]Myopinionschange 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Am I the only one who never had this feature (?l?), and didnt even know it existed?

[–]eagleshigh 1 ポイント2 ポイント

i didnt know about it for a while. been redditing for a year and a half. just downloaded res last week. pissed about not seeing my comment scores. want to see if people enjoyed or didnt like what i had to say. oh well ill just move on to the next site wherever this community goes

[–]iamsofired -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

Somehow I knew it would all be about /r/conspiracy lol.

[–]Mahat 3 ポイント4 ポイント

You are missing the point. This has happened in every major default with controversial topics relating to many hot button issues. We saw it last year when the snowden stuff started, the hastings story, and its very frightening what this may come to. Suppressing vital information from the masses, we know what happens when this road is trotted down unopposed.

[–]FuckfaceMcFartstench -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

Liberalism kills another thing that used to be good, everyone pretends to be shocked.

[–]gpwtb 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I would like to hear your explanation for how this new voting system is a result of liberalism.

[–]BanquetForOne -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

most intelligent users moved to the new place ages ago

[–]dieyoung[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント

What new place?

[–]fernando-poo -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Judge it based on the results. We can all theorize that there will be some effect or another, but there is no guarantee in real life.

If your theory is true, we should start seeing a major change in the content that gets upvoted on Reddit within the immediate future. Before loudly declaring that you are so over Reddit and leaving, maybe wait and see what happens and if that change actually comes to pass.

[–]Brad_Wesley -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Can someone please explain to me where this % like thing even is? I don't see it anywhere.

[–]21022012 -1 ポイント0 ポイント

but i like puffins

[–]somafp 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Don't forget to make your last post on http://www.reddit.com/r/redditsuicide before your delete your account.

[–]corby_tender -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

this feels like reddit is trying to prevent bad publicity. when a controversial comment that is racist gets 500 upvotes, it makes the site look like a haven for racists and it's bad publicity for reddit in general.

they're pandering to advertisers and celebrity AMAs.

[–]KeepForChangedotcom -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

These weekly "Reddit is officially dead" posts are starting to feel a little dramatic.

[–]godiebiel -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Mods don't you guys have some javascirpt or CSS hack to counter this ?!

[–]5yearsinthefuture -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

They want you to notice the quantity of upvotes. A percentage makes it less abstract versus a number.

[–]nars -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

This sub is painful.