reddit changes: individual up/down vote counts no longer visible, "% like it" closer to reality, major improvements to "controversial" sorting

Furbush · 1 日前

this change sucks. it's very useful to see the difference between what is controversial and what is just unseen.

johannz · 1 日前

This sounds like it will break subreddits that run contests based on the number of upvotes a submission receives, since we will no longer be able to see upvotes.

orangekid13 · 1 日前

Bad reddit, no. You put that back right now.

Edit: I JUST WANT TO KNOW ABOUT HOW MANY PEOPLE AGREE/DISAGREE WITH MY GILDER

Willravel · 1 日前

Over on /r/DaystromInstitute, we have something called Post of the Week, where we allow the users to nominate and then vote on posts they think were of a particularly high quality and which contributed a great deal. We've even come up with a mock-rank system based on users' wins. It's a lot of fun, it incentivizes quality posts, and the subreddit has ended up with some amazing posts from people. This sudden decision impacts a fundamental way our subreddit functions, and will carry with it the need to fundamentally change the way an active, vibrant subreddit with nearly 10,000 subscribers functions.

While I recognize Reddit is run by the admins and you're free to do with the site as you wish, I really would have appreciated the community being asked before the change went into effect, so we could explain what negative impacts there might be that you might not be thinking of.

Worst of all, I don't see how this actually fixes the problem it seems designed to fix. The best option seems, rather, to tweak the 'fuzzing' equation so as to more accurately represent the popularity of given threads or posts. Percentages is a step away from transparency.

adremeaux · 1 日前

since the data was actually misleading (or outright false in many cases), the usefulness of being able to see it was actually mostly an illusion.

Only in large subs. In small subs where vote totals rarely break 50, the upvote/downvote count is a lot more accurate and a lot more important for getting an idea as to how people feel.

I understand hiding this for posts, but for comments it's an awful decision.

hedgefundaspirations · 1 日前

I mod a moderately large sub (~100,000 subscribers and about the 250th biggest sub on reddit), and I use the specific votes all of the time for moderation. We're highly susceptible to spam because of our topic, and vote counts are great in the new queue and for spam comments. It's incredibly frustrating that this is being removed without any attempt whatsoever to replace the functionality in the comments. I've already felt that moderators aren't given enough tools, so taking one away is very much not cool.

JSA17 · 1 日前

This kills smaller subreddits. The comment scores are really important to seeing how well an opinion is received in smaller subs. This blows.

pieshels · 1 日前

For those who use RES...

orost · 1 日前

I understand the reasoning for posts, but why did you have to do that for comments as well?

edit: really, this is just awful. The difference between a comment having 150 downvotes and 151 upvotes and a comment with no votes at all is important.

Lizbeffwolf · 1 日前

after scrolling through the comments for a long while, i havent seen a single person in favor of this change.

RedHeadGearHead · 1 日前

Is it so wrong to want to know how people feel about my comments?

Lycanfire · 1 日前

Well, darn. I do a poll every two weeks in /r/eu4 using reddit upvotes, but I specifically attempt to ignore downvotes. So far I've done this 8 times, and I think I've only had to sit down with some patience to identify the extent of fuzzing once, when two options were both rated high.

The per-account basis has been working really well for such a small sub, but I feel like people could now more reliably game the system, with a pet sockpuppet or something. Whether they upvote themselves does not matter now, because they can just downvote the competition, and Reddit may be none of the wiser.

I've looked into other ways to conduct a poll, but I don't look for any fixed answer. While there is 1 criteria I look for, the answer can be hundreds of possible answers people could vote for. Google forms may work for this purpose, but there's no real way to eliminate duplicates. Maybe I could find a script that required a google login or added a cookie or something; I'm entirely ignorant of anything like this, however.

tldr this update makes me sad.

spoofex · 1 日前

I haven't seen a single positive reaction to this yet...

iffraz · 1 日前

This not only destroys comment contests, but harms the smaller subreddits. Please reddit don't make the same mistake that Digg made, don't destroy yourself.

bad_gateway · 1 日前

wait... you can't see the percentage for comments... lol this is soooo bad. a comment with 0 points could have 1 downvote or be the most controversial comment in history.

nj47 · 1 日前

This change may also have some unexpected side-effects on third-party extensions/apps/etc. that display or otherwise use the specific up/down numbers. We've tried to take various precautions to make the transition smoother, but please let us know if you notice anything going horribly wrong due to it.

You mean by not giving developers any notice on this whatsoever???

I'm sorry but that is just incredibly poor execution. Clearly internally it has been known this change was coming, there is absolutely no reason a week ago we couldn't have gotten a blog post letting us know this was coming so we could prepare to update any applications necessary.

Shappie · 1 日前

I am 100% wholeheartedly not a fan of this. There's no way to distinguish a controversial comment from any other now. This is a terrible change. It seems like the only reason you want to implement it is so people don't have to bring up 'vote fuzzing'. Why does that even matter?

allthefoxes · 1 日前

I would really like to see this back on comments.

As others have said, there is such a huge difference between (2|3) and (99|100)

edit: words

edit 2: Please don't buy me Gold! (Thanks though)

If you do not like this change, please send a message to the mods of /r/reddit.com, Turn on adblock for reddit, and do not buy reddit gold. Reddit is a community driven and powered website. The admins have a history of doing stuff like this, but nothing is going to change if you don't show them why it should change! Just send them a message and let them know about you turning on adblocker and not buying gold, and tell them why!

fatty_fatshits · 1 日前

This sucks. So when you have a -7 on a controversial topic, you don't know if anyone out there gave you an upvote (or approximately how many people voted and which way). In the context of comments that aren't the most viewed at least.

edit: Thank you kind stranger!!

Zenof · 1 日前

You do know that is is only going to enable vote brigading

Dreamtrain · 1 日前

You should totally change the upvote arrow with a thumbs up you guys. Will totally revolutionize the nets

apocolyptictodd · 1 日前

Wow this is really horrible, and is going to make my job excruciatingly hard. For once you guys really fucked up, hopefully you will change it back soon.

Edit: To anyone wondering I count votes for the monthly contest over at /r/vexillology and possibly soon a few other subs, we only count upvotes so we either have to now change the rules or find a way around this, making my job a pain in the ass.

TheVetNoob · 1 日前

I'm running a survey to tally up all the votes for/against this decision by the reddit admins. If you are using RES, it would be nice of you to say so in the survey.

Here is a nicer version of the spreadsheet, courtesy of /u/Dr_Lovestrange!

And here is the boring version of the spreadsheet

Edit: If you could kindly say if you are using RES or not, that would be nice!

4500 votes! Thanks, reddit!

5300 votes. Wow.

8800.

JoyousCacophony · 1 日前

It seems like the prevailing sentiment is that this is a horrible change. At what point can we hope that the admins roll it back?

elevul · 1 日前

I don't like this at all.

Cougs67 · 1 日前

ITT: Admins broke reddit, bring back our damn vote counts!

izmar · 1 日前

Submissions? Fine. Comments? Too far! Just read what people are saying here Admins! People want comments to remain on the regular upvote/downvote system. The "unexpected side effect" is dissatisfaction.

And what happens to the karma users have acquired? Does it stop here? Or are you able to see how much you have accumulated? Or will it be "60% of users liked izmar's posts"?

Raefniz · 1 日前

I realize that this probably feels like a very major change to the site to many of you, but since the data was actually misleading (or outright false in many cases), the usefulness of being able to see it was actually mostly an illusion.

So tweak the fuzzing, don't remove the vote counts. It really matters to know if a comment is 100/50 or 2/1.

funkerton · 1 日前

You guys are fucking a lot of smaller subreddits straight in their asses. A lot of them have competitions based on the number of votes a post receives, and in small subs a post with 1 upvote and a post with 20 upvotes both being shown as 100% is RIDICULOUS. How are we supposed to know what content is controversial, or gaining a lot of attention if they both show 100%

Damn sons. Do you all honestly think that people only browse the default subreddits? Because this change won't affect them so much. But to those of us who participate and moderate smaller subs, this change is really a huge "fuck you!" from the admins of reddit. Well, fuck you too.

fultron · 1 日前

TLDR: karma is now 55% more worthless.

meggyver · 1 日前

I do not like this change. I am simply posting here to make sure that my voice is heard. I would hope that you change this and make individual up/down votes visible as a decision that subreddits can make on their own. Thank you and have a nice day.

SpeedGeek · 1 日前

This is a ridiculous change that was not in the least bit thought out. The whole idea of "Who would downvote this?" is to spur discussion because the poster doesn't realize what could be wrong with their post.

Reddit has now gone down the path of trying to 'eliminate karma drama', and yet this won't help. The sheer existence of "points" listed on a comment or post, regardless of up/down vote tallies, can still lead to users seeing a 0 or negative karma and not understanding why people would downvote their posts.

Even with fuzzing, you can see activity with regard to a post/comment. That is important for fostering an environment where discussion and debate thrive, and that's exactly what reddit is built upon.

This was a bad decision, plain and simple.

Gudeldar · 1 日前

I was wondering why RES suddenly started showing me (?|?). It seems to change between refreshes, sometimes pages show them and sometimes they don't. I'm guessing its because not all the cached pages have updated.

ThePulse28 · 1 日前

Very disagreeable change. Please add an option to change it back, for those of us who liked this feature.

notcaffeinefree · 1 日前

We've tried to take various precautions to make the transition smoother, but please let us know if you notice anything going horribly wrong due to it.

Well, now RES shows (?|?) for the comments.

EDIT: From /u/honestbleeps (RES author) here:

RES will be removing vote counts in a future release. Please understand: we have no say in this, we can't get the numbers back. They're gone.

EDIT 2: Lots of people right now: http://i.imgur.com/qSBaLpS.jpg

EvilHom3r · 1 日前

While this certainty was a problem for big subs, there is absolutely no reason to remove the data entirely. Small subreddits are not affected by vote fuzzing nearly as much, and comments even less so.

There's a big difference between a post/comment with 2 upvotes and 1 downvote, and a post with 100 upvotes and 99 downvotes. Showing them both as "1" is extremely misleading.

While I can understand (and don't really care about) removing the post counts, there is absolutely no reason to remove the vote data for comments. It was never visible by default, someone would have to specifically install a userscript/addon to show them.

Between this and the very annoying auto-update post times, you are slowly slipping to a user-hostile reddit.

Zthulu · 1 日前

I dislike this change -- I recently had a +50, -49 comment. If that happened today, I'd have to assume nobody read it.

But I guess the site is yours to make less interesting if that's what you want.

I wonder, though -- why spend your time on something extremely unpopular, when you could have been working on a decent search engine or a streaming mode?

Murbec · 1 日前

Please keep the comment sections the way they were. I don't get the end plan here but it's not going a direction I like.

LUKEDAWG123 · 1 日前

NO! CHANGE IT BACK!

WabashSon · 1 日前

which gives the false impression of reddit being an extremely negative site.

NO - It gives the impression that Reddit is a diverse and nuanced site, where everyone doesn't always agree. You know - like the real world. This also has the added drawback of not showing when something IS is mass agreement and not just %popular (or maybe unpopular, with few votes.?.)

u dun goofed.

davidpbrown · 1 日前

"Less information is better"..?

Jakuskrzypk · 1 日前

I dislike the change.

StarCitizenNumber9 · 1 日前

Reddit admins lost their minds. This destroys reddit completely. Those up/down votes were extremely important for me to quickly find posts that many people seemed interested in.

HankHillWearingACape · 1 日前

This is so fucking stupid

Shappie · 1 日前

I hope you actually take this feedback to heart and realize that literally nobody wants this. Why in the world anyone thinks this would be a good change is beyond me.

Edit: To build on this, I'd like to explain how this affects me in a personal way. Months ago I decided that I was going to teach myself how to use Adobe Photoshop, After Effects, and Illustrator. /r/photoshopbattles has been my outlet for that since then.

In the past few months, I have learned a lot and improved my skill quite a bit. I relied on seeing my upvote/downvote ratio to judge how well I was doing. In a perfect world, users are supposed to vote based on how well a shop is and not whether or not it made you laugh. Of course, this isn't always the case as is shown with my frequent Dickbutt shops, but it's still at least a good indicator.

People can point out things I did wrong, forgot, or need to improve on. I welcome that. That is what will make me a better photo editor. Now while people can still certainly do this, removing the ratio leaves me completely in the dark as to how many people enjoy my shops or thought they were good versus those who didn't. All I have now is a point total that I couldn't give a shit about. I don't care about karma. I care about growing as a photo editor because eventually I want it to lead into something substantial and worthwhile. Seeing a point total is completely meaningless to me.

Recently I did some of my best work with a screencap from 2001: A Space Odyssey. People loved it. I had tons of requests for wallpaper sizes and it even became a huge hit in /r/wallpaper. I can't even tell you how good that makes me feel. Seeing people enjoy my work is a large reason I stick around here.

When I see downvotes, that tells me there are things I need to improve on. I no longer have this. I no longer know what people are thinking about my work unless they say so. I certainly welcome this but the vast majority of Reddit does not comment at all. I understand that the votes are fuzzed but like I said, it's still a general indicator. Seeing people get excited over something I created means far more to me than a point total ever will.

All of this aside, the new system has completely broken the way the weekly photoshop battles work. The winner is decided solely on the number of upvotes. Now that nobody can see the ratio, there's nothing stopping from people manipulating the vote so they can be the winner. This defeats the purpose of having the weekly battle at all. Downvotes were never counted in these battles but now we will not be able to see what posts are being downvoted.

MonsterInTheGarage · 1 日前

Fuck this change.

purefabulousity · 1 日前

Vote counts in smaller subs are important. Also, I like to see how well-received (or how badly received) my comments are!

purefabulousity · 1 日前

There goes one of my favorite features of RES.

i_hate_pandas · 1 日前

Or just get rid of the fake downvoting algorithms, so the counts are, well, correct.

jonreckers · 1 日前

Are upvotes "likes" now? I thought the voting system was supposed to represent comments that brought value, not just those that were liked/agreed with... Did this change?

MixBleachAndAcetone · 1 日前

I think the Upvote/downvote count should be reinstated. I feel that it was an integral part of some communities.

AssuredlyAThrowAway · 1 日前

I don't like this at all, it takes away a major component of my reddit experience.

shitty_hdr · 1 日前

It's not broke....Let's change it!

Gandalf_The_Gayyy · 1 日前

It has begun, the beginning of the end.

ONXwat · 1 日前

I do not like this.

GussyH · 22 時間前

You know what has killed every website that I used to go to and is now dead? The people running it being disconnected with the users, having no visibility in their decision making, and not having the balls to admit their mistakes and change it back. Users trickle off until there's no point in going anymore. If they had made a poll yesterday asking "Hey, should we get rid of the ability to see the downvotes and upvotes?" they'd see the 90% saying "hell no" and agree it's a bad idea, who thought of that anyway?

But you know what, reddit relies on us in a very visible way. Reddit gold. There's a counter every day showing how much they need to hit the goals. Finally we have a way to show our dissent in a way that matters. I want to see that bar stagnate, never get to 100% so long as they stick by this dumb decision. Hell, they'll probably remove that bar too.

Let us repeat, let everyone know:

NO MORE REDDIT GOLD!

asilvermtzion · 22 時間前

I'm totally lost. I use reddit, mostly, to garner technical information from peers in their relative subs, and now I find it very difficult to tell which comments are accepted as accurate, inaccurate, or accurate but just late to the game... I guess it's relatively safe to assume that sorting by "top" will give an indication in some way, but I feel like I'm going to miss out on a lot of useful information, or just end up really badly informed... It kind of destroys what I love about reddit: The combination of education and entertainment.

BranchofSin · 1 日前

This is a terrible idea. I understand the concept, but knowing how many upvotes/downvotes a thread/comments has is relevant to see how controversial and polarizing it is.

Also, now it's impossible to tell if people are downvoting every comment in the thread and breaking redditette.

I'm against this decision. We're all used to fuzzing and it's much less of an issue.

Edit: I wish there were some way to know how many people agreed or disagreed with my opinion...

BigGirtha · 1 日前

Imagine if your comment is +500 and -500, wouldn't you like to know that your comment received a lot of recognition? Instead it sits at 0 with a bunch of comments and you're left wondering how many people agreed/disagreed with you. Last week I got gold on a comment with like +125 and -300 to total -175. With this change people who agreed with me might be influenced by seeing just the negative points I have. Also I'd be left wondering how many people were thinking the same way I was. Not a fan of this change.

ParaspriteHugger · 1 日前

No, Sir, I don't like it. Minimize the fuzz in the old system and everything is okay.

pzl · 1 日前

I post in some pretty low-traffic subs. Places where my comments might only get 3-5 upvotes, maybe a single downvote. Never enough to trigger fuzzing.

The difference between 1 upvote (100% like it!) and 7 upvotes (100% like it!) on a tiny sub is huge. Now I have no idea if a single person agreed.

EDIT: actually I'm an idiot. Comments will still show point totals, right next to the username. The difference between (1|0) and (7|0) can still be discerned by your point total.

EDIT: inbox explodes. need to clarify -- my idiocy doesn't mean everything is peachy-well-and-good for smaller subs. You do lose the ability to tell if a comment is (5|0) vs (25|20), which is valuable info in a small community.

License_To_Trill · 1 日前

Why can't we have the option to sort by "worst" comment? Sometimes the most down voted ones are funniest, or at least, interesting to read.

komnenos · 1 日前

PLEASE make this optional, it looks incredibly wonky on RES and I honestly like to see how many people downvoted me versus upvoted me. If I see a comment of mine that simply has 2 karma how will I know how many upvotes versus downvotes that it has?

Edit: And why on earth did someone give the admin gold for this?

mustardheadmaster · 1 日前

I can buy this on submissions, but it's really useful too see on comments. Too see if it's a generally good comment, or controversial or very divided. This doesn't do any good on comments.

Please tell me this is a late April Fools.

M4gikarp · 23 時間前

Digg-ing your own grave reddit

cielestial · 22 時間前

As a protest, STOP getting Reddit Gold.

Terrh · 1 日前

I really miss the vote count already, especially in small subs and on my own posts.

Please put this back, at least on individual subs or for people with RES

nimblemix · 1 日前

Fuck no! Get rid of this percentage crap!

kallekilponen · 1 日前

As an admin at a fairly large internet community (on a national level, so nowhere as big as reddit) I understand bots can be a problem. You tried vote fuzzing as a way to battle them, but that clearly had it's drawbacks...I understand you felt something had to change...however removing the up/down votes altogether isn't the solution. There are other ways to combat bots, you should look into them instead of making the site worse for its users.

That said, not having votes visible for the most popular submissions almost makes sense, but removing vote counts for comments is a monumentally bad idea. Seeing those votes is absolutely crucial for smaller subreddits, and for browsing comments in more diverse comment threads.

Please listen to your users, and rethink this change, before it leads to the Digg disaster all over again.

qthagun · 1 日前

There's just no way around the fact that reddit is trying to tell you that you should be happier for getting even less information about the vote counts than you do now.

Rotating_Hamster · 1 日前

This is a horrible decision. I, like many other redditors, frequent small subs. As everyone else stated, the difference between 1 upvote and 13 upvotes is huge, but when all we'll be told is that 100% of people like it, it'll be useless.

Why implement a function no one asked for? This was never an issue before. I thought reddit was a community and that's why I come here. If I wanted changes that aren't asked for I'd stay on facebook.

BurntJoint · 1 日前

For bigger subreddits im sure this is useful, but i liked seeing the actual number of votes, both up and down, on a few of the smaller subreddits. It gives a better sense of how many people are actually interacting because the fuzzing never seemed to happen on posts <50 karma anyway.

I doubt it would be possible, but it would be nice if this was just limited to the default reddits, or was an option we could choose as mods on an individual subreddit basis.

AlphaWolf101 · 1 日前

Reddit is digg-ing its own grave.

HairyBaws · 1 日前

Nah, don't like it. Took away my favourite feature of RES.

McFlumpin · 1 日前

I hate this change.

--o__O-- · 1 日前

"Who would downvote this?"

A lot of redditors.

ThatCoolBlackGuy · 1 日前

i hate this, we hate this

this is stupid

LDTM · 1 日前

Doing this will officially mean that upvote = like and downvote = dislike, a system subreddits, especially small and good ones, have railed against.

Please give it a chance for a few days and see if things "feel" better without being able to see the specific up/down counts.

And then what? Pound sand if you don't like it? Because it's not like it'll get changed if users dislike it.

(Edit: since people seem confused, the "% like it" is only on submissions, as it always has been.)

Edit: Way to take ownership for the ambiguous wording of the OP. People didn't seem confused. People misinterpreted the OP because it wasn't written well. It's as simple as that. Next time you make an official announcement have someone with a background in English review the post for clarity.

CHClClCl · 1 日前

Well, I hate it. I'm angry now.

outadoc · 1 日前

I like how this post is in the "controversial" tab.

marishtar · 1 日前

Oh c'mon. There's a huge difference between a comment at +1/-0 and +55/-54, and I want to know about it.

KnashDavis · 1 日前

I agree with several other users, I think the vote counts are helpful. I like seeing exactly how many people like/dislike my comment and/or post.

jakedobson · 1 日前

God this is fucking terrible

Pocahontas_Spaceman · 1 日前

This seems really silly and counter-productive for most smaller subs

getawayfrommyfood · 1 日前

In case you couldn't see, I downvoted this.

alison_bee · 1 日前

isn't removing that kind of defeating one of the purposes of reddit? and it also seems that it will make reddiquette completely invalid.

Afootlongdong · 1 日前

What a stupid idea. Did facebook just take ownership of reddit or something?

x20mike07x · 1 日前

This is a terrible change to be honest. How is one supposed to know if a comment is just controversial as opposed to just not seen by a majority of readers in a thread? It's fine and dandy that you could sort by controversial comments, but generally I assume most people look by either "top" or "new" comments, which leaves very little reason to normally search by controversial.

iBleeedorange · 1 日前

I realize that this probably feels like a very major change to the site to many of you, but since the data was actually misleading (or outright false in many cases), the usefulness of being able to see it was actually mostly an illusion. Please give it a chance for a few days and see if things "feel" better without being able to see the specific up/down counts.

You know it wasn't always mis leading, yes for front page posts that got 50k upvotes it was bad, but I've seen posts get to +50 upvotes without being vote fuzzed. I don't like this.

opuap · 1 日前

I hop off Reddit for an hour to shower and it changes forever

otto3210 · 1 日前

RES save us

Jeroknite · 1 日前

To quote a friend

it's still meaningful to see the difference between a post with 2 upvotes and 1 downvote and 100 vs 99

Sometimes it's a good thing to see if a community is divided on a subject, or if it's just a couple of people disagreeing.

EDIT: Jesus christ. Calm down, people.

EDIT: R.I.P. my inbox.

AustNerevar · 1 日前

This is a terrible change.

GussyH · 22 時間前

I'd like to point out that admin /u/Deimorz has publicly stated that the changes are "not going to be reverted due to the (completely expected) knee-jerk reaction to it."

Basically, what the reddit community wants, as a whole, doesn't matter. Dissenters are just knee-jerk reactions. We won't get a healthy dialogue from the admins because they've already invalidated our thoughts. It's overwhelming that redditors do not like this change; the admins don't care.

ThreeOneFive · 1 日前

This is a very bad move and will result in neither an improved experience nor in heightened use by existing members, new members increasing in number or in any way prevent a "negative" impression of the site. Now we just won't know what the hell is going on with actual opinion.

snumfalzumpa · 1 日前

You guys basically just ruined the site. God damn, I can't even comprehend how dumb of a move this is.

stimpakk · 1 日前

So it's pretty much Digg all over again. This is so sad, because I was one of those that migrated over from Digg because it became just like Facebook. Guess it's time to start looking for a new replacement site. Anyone got any suggestions?

BettyWhiteOnSteroids · 1 日前

I use a lot of smaller subs like /r/baseball and /r/torontobluejays, I find the voting counts actually to be relevant and useful in the comments section, as it can show how controversial certain opinions are. I do not like this change.

Edit: /u/TheVetNoob has set up a poll. Vote - Results - Spreadsheet - Discuss

AdmiralDonut · 1 日前

I gotta say this new change is dreadful. It feels like half of my Reddit functionality just went POOF!

almightybob1 · 1 日前

Will this break RES?

EDIT: Yeah it broke RES.

AppealPlay · 1 日前

This is stupid.

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