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SolutionNet (spacechem.net) has now been open-sourced (self.spacechem)

submitted by Deimorz

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[–]Deimorz[S] -121 ポイント-120 ポイント

There's not really any point in me yelling into the storm in /r/announcements. This wasn't a change that we made lightly, and it's not going to be reverted due to the (completely expected) knee-jerk reaction to it. We're reading the feedback about it, and some things may end up being changed eventually, but not immediately.

[–]Haskelle 74 ポイント75 ポイント

I'd say it's a bit more than a "knee jerk" reaction. This post has had more comments on it than most if not all other announcement posts, and it has only been around for 5 hours. Most if not all comments are strongly against this change.

It's very out of touch to call this reaction a "knee-jerk" reaction. I'm in shock. Is today April fools?

[–]snumfalzumpa 19 ポイント20 ポイント

Who knows man, I feel like someone took over reddit, maybe they finally sold out. Remember this article from last year: http://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-ceo-admits-were-still-in-the-red-2013-7

Wong then suggested that readers who believe corporations hold undue sway over Reddit should buy a tinfoil hat on Amazon.

lol

[–]gointothedark 24 ポイント25 ポイント

All this change does is mutes the people who actually enjoy using the site. The metasphere, the small reddits, the people who enjoy watching the reaction to their comments.

This strikes me as a very corporate move. Reddit is sanitizing itself. But putting the snuff on the behaviour of some malcontented trolls who are driven by vote counts, they make the site more palatable to the masses. They want reddit to be the way we CONSUME information, not the way we process or discuss it.

They can wipe their hands of it because it was only some intrepid users who jimmied the site to get us our vote counts (paging /u/honestbleeps, who in all honesty should have just been HIRED by reddit for improving the UX 100-fold), but it is a pretty serious Fuck You to anyone who utilized the site in any way beyond how Wong or the owners want it to be. Sad truth.

Reddit is for consuming. News agencies, corporate pages. Stick to the defaults. Read, click, navigate. Don't conversate, just absorb. Profit.

[–]WalkingBush 9 ポイント10 ポイント

And don't give gold either. Remember, every time you give gold - the money is going to reddit. If you don't like what they're doing, don't put money into their coffers! :D

[–]jsmooth7 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Just for the sake of argument, is it really that bad? I don't feel compelled to avoid small subreddits just because I can't see the number of upvotes/downvotes. I go to small subreddits because the content is good. I can still sort comments by top/best/controversial. (And also controversial sorting actually works now! That doesn't sound like a move Reddit would make if it was trying to sanitize itself.)

[–]cuntyfucker 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Ok, assuming you don't actually use the site like lots of us do, I'll explain my point of view.

I spend most of my time (this and my other accts) in small subreddits. I care passionately if 1 person up'd or 100 people up'd, independent of downs and despite the fact it's fuzzed more as the ups grow.

I care much less about the total downs usually, but if something I've said is taken the wrong way it shows up in the count plus the ratio of up/downs. Without both up/down or up/percent in the comments, the usefulness and pleasure of using the whole site is cut in half for me.

[–]coolblasterz 8 ポイント9 ポイント

I posted this in AskReddit: I honestly suspect it's a sell out.

  1. The reasoning behind the change is flimsy at best. Trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist. I smell bullshit on that, the people running Reddit are smarter than that and there has to be a better reason to make a huge change like this.
  2. The change has a greater negative effect for smaller subreddits than the big ones. Big subreddits with big audiences are more attractive to advertisers. Combine this with the increasingly obscure voting points and it seems like this gives an in for advertisers to promote posts on big subreddits. I've heard Reddit is hard up for cash, so that makes me believe this could be a sellout.

If this is the case, I hope it turns into an example of poetic justice when Reddit loses its userbase and hence the desirability to advertisers. They would have killed the goose that laid the Reddit Gold.

[–]GeneticAlgorithm 43 ポイント44 ポイント

Are you out of your fucking mind? Those are all perfectly valid concerns, how can you dismiss them as "kneejerk reactions"?

[–]changradel 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Its actually very simple. Right now people are mad, and they will still be annoyed but the only outlet of expression for it is that one thread. Once it is out of the way in the next 24 hours, people will still be annoyed but there is no way for them to vent. Then wait another week and it'll die down until eventually people are just forced to accept it.

Basically they know that redditors will not do anything. The angry ones are just a minority that they can ignore or they can just take a wait and see approach. Also there are no real competitors so no real threat. The odds are stacked in their favor on this one.

Smart move actually to do this now.

[–]DaGoodBoy 19 ポイント20 ポイント

Except that as an almost 8 year member with a dozen alt accounts and regular Reddit gold buyer, the way this change was put out and handled is enough for me to consider leaving. I've definitely bought my last gold today. And I'll be looking around for other places to spend my time and contribute content.

[–]Zidanie5 13 ポイント14 ポイント

Indeed. They will actually see the negative consequences. It probably won't be an enormous number of people leaving, it will be more subtle, in the form of core users liking it a little less, coming here a little less often, buying gold much less often and so on. Fast forward one year -> Digg.

Plus, the attitude here is incredibly counter-productive. They're not big enough to can afford ignoring what their user-base thinks.

[–]raka_defocus 3 ポイント4 ポイント

boycott the companies who advertise here! We're a strong community we can do this. Remember it's hard to sell ads when your traffic dies(cough cough digg)

[–]saibog38 5 ポイント6 ポイント

What's the point though? What do they gain from this?

[–]FurriesRuinEverythin 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Also there are no real competitors so no real threat

This. I would leave reddit in protest, I'm sure a very significant number of people would too. But where else do I have to go?

[–]YellowSnot 33 ポイント34 ポイント

Reddit originally became popular because the admins listened to the users and gave them what they wanted (in contrast to Digg, which started pulling shit like this). The reddit admins would do well to remember that.

I think what bothers me most isn't the loss of comment point tallies (which sucks), but the attitude the admins seem to be taking. Just dropping a change like this, that breaks things for so many subreddits, without any consultation, or even warning. I mean really, why not ask for user's opinion first?

There may not be a viable replacement for now, but if this sort of behavior continues you can be sure there will be, and Reddit will go the way of Digg.

[–]HokiePokie11 49 ポイント50 ポイント

And that kind of attitude is why I won't be using Reddit anymore. I can definitely find better things to do with my time.

[–]chachomu 24 ポイント25 ポイント

Great attitude! The ol' announce and run.

[–]WalkingBush 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Protip for if you ever intend to plant a massive bomb. Run away before it explodes in your face and leaves you plastered over a couple of city blocks. Clearly he didn't run fast enough, chachomu.

[–]The_Prince_of_Wishes 18 ポイント19 ポイント

Serious question, but you probably won't answer.

You are aware of the shitstorm you just created, aswell as how you failed to ask the community for this changed. You have showed blanlant disregard to how both the RES devs and the subreddit moderators about this. You have ignored all of this because you are an admin and "what I say goes."

So, assume that NOBODY likes this change, and a majority of reddit users want it gone. What will you do?

[–]WalkingBush 14 ポイント15 ポイント

This wasn't a change that we made lightly, and it's not going to be reverted due to the (completely expected) knee-jerk reaction to it.

Probably ignore us, as he's already indicated that he intends to do at the moment.

[–]GussyH 18 ポイント19 ポイント

You're literally saying that what your userbase wants doesn't matter. Do you not see how fucked up this is? I hope reddit fires you and hires an actual PR guy, because you're inevitably making everything worse.

Before: reddit made a decision that almost the entire community is pissed about. Now: reddit made a decision that almost the entire community is pissed about, reddit tells them that they're wrong, and what they say doesn't matter.

I don't think you understand that we fucking make you. Without a userbase, you're nothing. You guys need to get a PR guy fast, because you're just getting yourself into deeper shit.

[–]whatsmyPW 46 ポイント47 ポイント

Glad to know our admins don't understand their own site.

[–]X5R 18 ポイント19 ポイント

You made this choice all too lightly. It's bullshit, and you should be in /r/announcements addressing people's concerns.

[–]junglemonkey47 80 ポイント81 ポイント

Fuck you.

[–]txitxi 46 ポイント47 ポイント

I hope reddit fire this twat. Its like google plus comment system being shoved down youtubers throat

[–]McDaioh 14 ポイント15 ポイント

i doubt /u/Deimorz made this decision all by himself. it was a bad decision, but he was just one of the part responsible for making that decision.

[–]txitxi 31 ポイント32 ポイント

He made the announcement, so he should be in the other thread answering questions to users. Not fart about here.

[–]Bramse 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I'd give you gold but the money would go to Deimorz.

[–]Staxxy 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Agreed; here's some gold to fund Reddit with hatred for shitty updates

[–]junglemonkey47 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm poor, but can offer this in return.

[–]Staxxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Did you downvote me ? Or did you upvote me ? I can't tell !

[–]Haskelle 16 ポイント17 ポイント

Can you at least say how many votes there were on a specific comment? The problem is this: If I only have a couple votes, now I have no way of telling if people don't like my post, or if they just don't give a shit.

[–]Etherapen 15 ポイント16 ポイント

Who would upvote this?

[–]Wolf-O-Donnell 6 ポイント7 ポイント

not sure but I'll upvote this ^

[–]spaghettiohs 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I'll ?-vote it

[–]iamalondoner 48 ポイント49 ポイント

Consulting your users would have been nice instead of behaving like facebook.

Edit: and why is your total comment Karma still growing steadily despite being downvoted a lot?

[–]trebory6 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Nobody knows because they keep making it harder to tell how the hell Karma works anymore.

[–]iamalondoner 10 ポイント11 ポイント

I have a lot of time to spare tonight so I've been taking screenshots of his account overview. It's hilarious, you can see his overall karma growing more and more while all his comments are being downvoted to hell. This is a PR debacle, reddit has really lost my estime. It went from benevolent website to secretive despote.

[–]Shappie 4 ポイント5 ポイント

It's probably because people are mass downvoting all of his comments from his user page, which makes the comment automatically get an upvote to counteract it.

[–]mirrth 2 ポイント3 ポイント

lol, that's some funny shit right there. Posts go neg, user karma keeps climbing.

My tinfoil hat paranoia thinks that would be a marketable feature when shopping around to corporate clients (or at least make it easier to "fastlane" paying submitters). But that sounds ridiculous.

[–]LearningMan 14 ポイント15 ポイント

Completely Ruined the Reddit Experience...

[–]WalkingBush 25 ポイント26 ポイント

On your own head be it, Deimorz. I think this is hardly a "knee jerk" reaction. What this is, is a clear message that the admins and devs have totally fucked this up by doing something which has broken a considerable number of subs. I don't think the transmission hitting your antenna right now could be any stronger, short of blowing your goddamned windows out - do you?

[–]saibog38 28 ポイント29 ポイント

Completely expected? Your comment directly before this doesn't make it sound like it was "completely expected".

This is one of the most interesting things about the opposition to this change to me: the ability to see up/down votes on comments has never been a feature that reddit had, it's a feature that RES had. The large, large majority of reddit users did not have this "feature".

Why would this be so "interesting" if you completely expected it? Kinda sounds like you didn't actually expect it, at least not to this degree, but you don't want to admit it.

[–]pretentiousglory 4 ポイント5 ポイント

I know I and many other reddit users prefer to browse on mobile apps, within which that feature was most definitely available. I hate the site layout, mobile is pretty much the best way to reddit imo.

[–]DracoAzuleAA 9 ポイント10 ポイント

and it's not going to be reverted due to the (completely expected) knee-jerk reaction to it

"Oh they'll hate this. But we're going to do it anyways. Because fuck what our users think."

Fuck you.

[–]cuntyfucker 25 ポイント26 ポイント

If I could cash in the gold on all my accounts, I'd buy a bag of dildos so all the admins could go fuck themselves.

[–]carlishio2 9 ポイント10 ポイント

I would give you gold for the lulz, but that would support Reddit and right now I'm mad at Reddit.

[–]Twentington1 8 ポイント9 ポイント

"Knee-jerk reaction" my ass. Have you or anyone else on the staff even bothered to read the damn comments on the post?

[–]3300 21 ポイント22 ポイント

Idiot.

[–]unechouette 7 ポイント8 ポイント

You guys are like the parents who make a decision for their children without asking the children what they want and just assuming you know best, when you actually don't know best and have now pissed off your children in a way that will probably only get better if you actually pay attention to what the children have to say and value their opinions.

[–]kronik658 9 ポイント10 ポイント

You're dumb

[–]timTheEnt1 7 ポイント8 ポイント

fuck you

[–]TottenJegger 7 ポイント8 ポイント

So because your going to be downvoted your going to forgo presenting any information that could be constructive and inductive to converstaion on the situation?

[–]coolblasterz 7 ポイント8 ポイント

I hope you guys like reading.

[–]trout45 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Buddy this shit is your job, address the response. Or if typing a few sentences is just too much to bear, pass the buck and have some PR person on staff do it.

Either way, the response to this change has been overwhelmingly negative. Many users and mods have given specific examples of how this degrades the quality of the site. Nothing knee-jerk about it. You guys can't just pretend this isn't happening.

Well, you can, but it makes you look like a bunch of stubborn shit-heels. We all saw how well that worked for Digg.

[–]supferrets 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Take your dismissive, mother-knows-best bullshit and shove it.

[–]sdpenaloza 6 ポイント7 ポイント

Wow, I understand the possible knee jerk reaction and some overly zealous comments about not liking change, but many of these people in the storm is your customers honestly (Reddit Gold, possible advertisers). The fact you don't hear them out at all and going to the point saying "not going to be reverted" taking the hardline to an unpopular decision without

A) making an attempt to educate the users of why the change is in place

or

B) showing at least some sense of customer courtesy to at least quell the discontent.

is baffling.

I am glad i am canceling reddit gold, and hope to encourage others to avoid it for the time being.

[–]stealth210 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I am glad i am canceling reddit gold, and hope to encourage others to avoid it for the time being.

Consider it done. "score hidden" was the first straw, this is the last.

[–]coolblasterz 5 ポイント6 ポイント

It's not endearing to be obstinate and belittling towards users by saying:

it's not going to be reverted due to the (completely expected) knee-jerk reaction to it

Without your userbase Reddit is just the next Myspace. If those representing Reddit respond to masses of disgruntled users with this kind of condescension you'll dig yourself into obscurity (lame pun intended).

[–]corduroyblack 5 ポイント6 ポイント

This is a terrible response and you should honestly be ashamed of yourself. I understand you're the bad guy for the entire team that made the decision. But frankly, this is amateur hour bullshit.

[–]tgmeier 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Hey, don't tell me.

[–]starfirex 3 ポイント4 ポイント

So... how strong of a negative reaction do you need to change your mind on this?

[–]Staxxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

DDoS attacks. Or mass brigading. Or both

[–]robert99a 4 ポイント5 ポイント

The weirdest thing is that you don't even understand why people are against this change. It just goes to show how disconnected you are from the people who actually use this site.

[–]Bramse 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Go fuck yourself.

[–]Rod_Tidwell 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Did you ever think that the reaction may not be knee-jerk if you didn't spring it on people with no notice?

Do you think? Is that something your species does?

[–]totes_meta_bot 3 ポイント4 ポイント

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.

[–]herpmanderpstein 0 ポイント1 ポイント

knee-jerk reaction

see, the thing is, we'll get used to it eventually, yes, and we'll largely forget about it eventually, as reddit has short attention spans, but that doesn't change the fact that this mandatory move will deplete the quality of smaller subreddits and overall enjoyment of the site for all, all to prevent such a minor issue. at least make it optional for each subreddit. not cool man

[–]droobyscoo 0 ポイント1 ポイント

We'll let you know when we need your opinions Chad