An anonymous angel from New York delivered a wonderful public service today: "a phone line that automatically reads quotations from bell hooks." From our savior, via email:
The idea came to me after the NYPost printed bikini photos of the woman who "spurned" Elliot Rodgers. Despite the fact that she was only 10 years old at the time they met, she was portrayed as having romantically rejected Rodgers.The idea is to pass that off as one's own number if you're in a dicey situation, afraid to give out your personal cell phone number or outright reject somebody. The number is 669-221-6251. (We originally wanted 669/UGH-ASIF, but it was taken...)
It will automatically respond to text messages as well as calls! That way, you don't have to deal with a threatening person, *and* they get some free feminist lessons thrown in.
We are thinking of putting up a gmail account too, which would automatically respond with "Thank you for your note. However, I am away on vacation — from the patriarchy."
Give it a try, and then promptly memorize the number: 669-221-6251. [Feminist Phone Intervention, screengrab via Bitch Media]
Nope, sorry, if you don't want to give someone your number then don't. Surely we can be adults about this.
@Erica Geissman@facebook I don't usually give out a fake number, but I have done so twice. The first time I did it because the guy hassled me and followed me home at night from the subway station when I told him no. I don't think that people are being immature- I think that people are feeling unsafe.
@Erica Geissman@facebook You're very lucky you've never had to experience the harassment that comes from an aggressor that won't back down from a phone number exchange conversation.
exactly.
it would be great if everyone were adults and we could all rely on honest answers to get us an appropriate response. unfortunately, we do not currently live in that world.
@Erica Geissman@facebook some people don't take no for an answer though and get extremely aggressive. I've had a guy try and follow me home because I wouldn't give him my number. Thankfully a bus driver closed the door on him and wouldn't let him on the bus.
@Erica Geissman@facebook Telling guys I'm gay doesn't work (and I am) so this is the next best option.
@Erica Geissman@facebook If you feel that strongly then why are you sorry? Oh yeah that's right...sometimes it's hard to directly communicate and/or we want to communicate resistance despite apparent compliance. Much like this number gives one the opportunity to do.
@Erica Geissman@facebook omg wowwww you clearly don't understand how awesome this is. Be adults?! Don't harass someone for their cellphone number.
@Erica Geissman@facebook it is wonderful that you've never had a guy refuse to take no for an answer. However, I've had far too many for my own comfort. I will be giving this number out if the situation arises again. It would be wonderful if people would just be adults and not harass me for my phone number when I clearly have no desire to give it out. But sadly that isn't always the case. More than once I've had to call security at my job simply because I guy wouldn't take no for an answer.
@Erica Geissman@facebook It's not that we're being childish. I've given fake numbers to men because I was afraid of what they'd do to me if I didn't give them some number. I had a guy grab me by the hair when I told him I didn't want to give out my number. Good thing there were some good guys who saw what happened and grabbed him and called the cops. It makes me afraid to go out anywhere. =(
Twice in the last month I've had mystery texts from people who were clearly given my number in a situation like this. How I wish those ladies had had this option.
And as far as "being adults about this," when I've refused to give out my number in the past, I've been called all kinds of nasty names, even yelled at. I'm under no obligation to be nice or honest to such types.
Giving out a fake number doesn't magically become a mature response just because it contains a literary allusion.
@beetnemesis If guys were mature enough to handle a refusal this service wouldn't be necessary.
@beetnemesis Sometimes you give out a fake number so you won't be murdered. I've run into some scary men that I gave them a fake number just so I can escape!
Because sometimes things get so dicey for women and girls that it's safer to just give a fake number than have a confrontation with some guy with hurt feeling or who just won't quit with the come on.
Someone made a gmail account that does the same thing (without the randomization): bellhookshl@gmail.com :D
Lets be civil and just say your not interested. It's not easy to put yourself out there. Its worse than a jigsaw puzzle trying to figure out how to talk to women sometimes
@KevinP maybe you're a nice guy so you don't get this. but some men are pushy, aggressive and scary when rejected. some will just insult you, call you stuck up or not that pretty anyways. some will see rejection as an invitation to grope or follow women. for every nice guy who takes rejection like a considerate human being, there is a guy with a temper and threats. this number is for those guys.
@KevinP Women aren't always explicit in their rejections because men have made it unsafe to do so. Does that fill in some missing pieces for you?
@KevinP How about dudes who get rejected be civil and not threaten to kill (or actually kill) women? How about dudes learn to take no for an answer? Just because you do doesn't mean all guys do, and trust me, every woman has a story of being threatened or at least verbally abused for saying no when a guy asks for her number. If you haven't been in our shoes, you're in no position to judge.
@KevinP Actually it's not that difficult. All you need to do is open your mouth and start talking like a civilised human being. Also, you're not 'risking' anything by asking for a phone number, while many women risk stalkers you at the very best merely harass them.
If you ask for a number and are told no, don't expect to get the woman's real number next time you ask.
@KevinP You say "let's" like there's an "us," haha. It's so nice that the worst discomfort you experience in these situations is jigsaw puzzle-level.
@KevinP and what exactly is the "Mr. D Institute" that you hid a link to in your reply?
@KevinP *you're
@KevinP It's also not easy to try and figure out whether the dude I want to say "no" to is going to politely accept that or become rude, aggressive, or flat-out murderous.
@KevinP This is for those situations where "no, I'm not interested" doesn't work. So. Yeah.
@KevinP Women are people, not puzzles. Stating that women are uncivil just illustrates how little you understand what a real woman's life is like. I don't owe you anything. If I feel uncomfortable and want to get away without a confrontation, I don't owe it to you do to what you prefer--even if that is just being honest about not having any interest in you. Women do not evade men in this way because it is a puzzle or a game, women do it because they just want to go about their day without getting followed, yelled at, and harassed. I didn't ask for you to hit on me and I don't owe anything to you just because you did.
@KevinP As a fellow human, I totally understand where you're coming from with regard to the difficulty it takes to muster up the courage to approach someone you find attractive, initiate conversation, and put yourself out by asking for a phone number. The burden of initiating an encounter with the opposite sex disproportionately tends to fall on males, as a consequence of anachronistic social mores and the way men and women still tend to be socialized. It's tough for anyone to display interest in someone and assume the risk of being shot down, over and over again. Rejection stings, and it's not unnatural to even have a deep-seated fear of it.
I also understand your comment about how trying to flirt with the opposite sex, and discern whether or not a person is interested, can sometimes feel like decoding a jigsaw puzzle. Women, in particular, have been socialized to not appear too available or desperate; to hold back and be coy with the males we are interested in. At the same time, we want a clear "no" to be understood as a clear "no." Don't get me wrong, I am not in any way aiming to perpetuate any stereotype about women being unable to understand or clearly communicate their own wants and needs. What am I am saying, though, is that this whole confusion about "mixed messages" /is/ an unfortunate consequence of the social conditioning women receive, handed down from previous generations, vestiges of the Victorian era, etc.
I just wanted to communicate my empathy for you on here, because it seems like you've received nothing but attacks for your comment. That said, because of all the confusion and emotions surrounding the issue of approach/rejection, it can unfortunately sometimes be unsafe or merely too stressful for a woman to simply say "no" and leave it at that. And, I think this whole cell phone number + feminist quotes thing is kinda neat, and allows both parties to save face in the moment, anyway. :-)
@KevinP Kevin, you are a rational guy. Not all men are rational.
@KevinP Dear Less Is More@facebook, thank you for that reply. I get why people were annoyed at KevinP, because of his apparent obliviousness about how bad situations can get for women to have to use solutions like this. But, while the stakes are of course much less high in the challenges KevinP refers to, and there's thus no direct comparison, there seems to be some obliviousness among the people who responded to him about those as well. The patriarchal nature of society puts men in quandaries as well, and I think that's where KevinP, or other commenters like him, come from. And you articulate them much better than I could.
@KevinP This is entirely about people feeling safe. If you can accept people saying "sorry, I'm not interested," good job at having basic human decency, because not everyone does, and this is completely for those situations. If you ask someone for a number and they give you a fake number you HAVE to understand that there is a reason behind that, and you should not take it personally. If you do then you are part of the problem, even if you overtly would never harass someone, because you are not recognizing that women feel threatened by men sometimes.
Also, if it makes you feel any better, I am a woman and I don't find it at all easy to put myself out there. Humans in general are complicated and fear of rejection is a thing for everyone, not just men.
How about teach boys to read social cues that a woman is not interested...you know, like when we say, "No, thank you."
@Caryn Josepher but that is so hard to interpret dontcha know. We women speak a secret mystery language where "no" could mean at least a dozen things! /heavy sarcasm
Are we for realzies hating on women for not handling unwanted male attention "maturely?" What in the fresh hell is all this?
@Miss Ursula This is not the feminazi bonerkilling I signed up for!
@Miss Ursula: Thank you. I find it incomprehensible that these folks believe that giving out a fake phone number is somehow a sign of immaturity or somehow a less viable response than "No, you can't have my phone number." No one (man or woman) is under any obligation to be completely forthright with a stranger, particularly in circumstances where that stranger is accosting them, making them feel uncomfortable, giving off bad vibes, or otherwise giving them the impression that handing out their phone number or outright rejection is a bad idea.
Yes, love all the just say no comments. Have you never been in a situation when saying you're not interested was not enough and the guy persisted in harassing you as if you didn't really understand what you were passing up? Well congratulations, how wonderful.
@TN I know! It's like, thank you for showing me that my instincts about you being a creep were correct.
@Anita Jones@facebook On a less scathing note though, it's nice to see more than just a handful of comments on a post, even if it's just because we lurkers felt compelled to come out of the woodwork to smack down the idea that this is just us crazy women, always trying to make things more complicated and lowering the maturity level of discourse.
I so wish I'd had this when I was single. Also, I'm surprised we're arguing about this on The Hairpin? THIS IS A GREAT THING.
@Ameelz123 I have even needed it after telling someone I was married, when I was out with a single female friend. Because "If you don't want to hook up, what the fuck are you doing in a bar, bitch?"
@Ameelz123 It's the #notallmen brigade. Yes, we men do creepy things that make women give out fake phone numbers....
@Better to Eat You With That had to have been scary! =( It is why I am terrified of bars. I've had too many scary things happen. There is only one bar I will go to because I'm friends with the staff and the bands who play there. They throw wankers like this out and they will escort you to your car.
@KevinP How hard is it to put yourself out there? It was scary in high school, but we're adults now. When you ask a woman for her number, you have nothing to lose except a little bit of awkwardness with a stranger you'll likely never see again. (And hopefully if you've asked her number, it means you're already interacting with her in some way, not just walking up to random women on the street. And hopefully if she says no, you say "alright, it's cool" and move on with your life.)
Also, women are not "jigsaw puzzles". Please move away from of your stereotyped thinking about us.
And yeah, as many have already pointed out: being civil and politely saying "no" is what many women do, and some guys respond to that with creepy and frightening entitlement.
@Charlotte Brunner@facebook It's pretty damn hard to put yourself out there. And it's really easy to say "you have nothing to lose" but for a lot of people, male or female, the fear of rejection is real and visceral. That being said, if someone says no, obviously that should be the end of it.
Great. With this number now posted all over the internet, it's pretty much useless. I agree that women need to be safe, but if you're being stalked, giving a phony number seems to be a bad idea.
The pushy guys will also get this number more than once. When they do, what will your response be when they call you out? Another phony number?
@Chris Stout@facebook dude, Chris, do you remember that show "To Catch a Predator?" Where they roped in pedophile guys who thought they were going to meet a 12 year old girl at her house? Then when he got there, the show's host came out and the guy was mortified on national TV? Did you know that a couple of those men actually got caught TWICE? With the same scheme? My point is, having this number out there is not going to be a problem. Because the type of men we'd give it to just aren't smart.
@KevinP It is not hard to put yourself out there. I express interest in men regularly, and I've been rejected plenty of times. Move on from it. All you're doing is making an offer of availability, you're not giving someone the keys to your self-worth.
If you have to be pushy to get someone's number? That person isn't interested in you. Bow out gracefully before making an ass out of yourself, or face these very gentle, potentially educational consequences.
I love this idea. I think we should have a variety of such numbers; I'd like some Betty Friedan quotes and some Simone de Beauvoir quotes, too.
@gtrachel
Is it so hard to understand that different people experience this situation in different ways? You obviously have a lot of self confidence, I would say obviously more than most people, which is great. Many men do have a strong emotional reaction to getting rejected, even by a complete stranger that they'll never see again, even if they know intellectually that there's no good reason for such a reaction. (Many women too, but by the nature of things women can get away with never or almost never putting themselves on the line.)
@gtrachel It may not be hard for you to put yourself out there, but it is for many, many people, regardless of gender. This may surprise you, but not everyone experiences the world in the same way you do.
aw, but usually when I'm getting hassled, they will make me take my phone out of my pocket and text me to make sure it's the correct number. hnnnng still love it
@franzia Are you sure that's not illegal?! That sounds a lot like harassment to me....
@franzia =( That is scary. I had a guy do that to me when I was about to give him a fake number. I ran away in terror.
Surprise, surprise! Feminists spouting quotes about female agency (acting as empowered adults) in one breath and in the other encouraging women to behave as deceitful lying children when dealing when men who express interest in them! Even more ridiculous is advising them as if it's still 1998 and the guy won't find out till he gets home that the woman who had no problem letting him buy her drinks all night was a scammer instead of running into the highly common practice these days of dialing the number on the spot! Real smart way to avoid an uncomfortable situation ladies! Foolishly naive and shamefully deceitful in a single package! But hey, that's modern feminism for ya! Bravo!
@HellBooks instead of being part of the problem and labeling women as deceitful, how about you get a clue? What would you rather do: Take a risk lying to a man who might kill you when he finds out, take a risk suffering a stalker who might kill you when he finds out you were never interested, or suffer the wrath of a guy who might kill you when you reject him? That is what this is about you priveledged swine.
@HellBooks Yes, I would feel super safe turning you down with a straightforward no. You don't at all seem like someone who might get at the least verbally abusive. No, not at all!
@HellBooks Because buying a woman drinks is an investment and you expect a return on it at the end of the evening? Yeah, that's healthy.
@HellBooks
Short of some sort of physical contact, "dialing the number on the spot" is perhaps the most insane and threatening thing I can imagine a man doing. There are two possible results: the number is fake or it is not. But either way, How does dialing it immediately possibly end in a way that doesn't make it clear that you are a terrible person?
@Rock and Roll Ken Doll
You dial the number on the spot because then she has your number too, and as an added bonus you can check on the spot if it's fake.
@HellBooks
But if it's not real, then what? What possible helpful next step is there? I suppose it creates an opportunity to harass or humiliate, but I don't find that very appealing.
@AdamM might be ok if she's not feeling threatened, but ends up being super aggressive if she is. Why not just wait until later? What do you have to gain from "checking on the spot"?
@HellBooks Get some help, freak.
@Rock and Roll Ken Doll Dialing on the spot (or texting on the spot) is a common practice so the other person will have your number. I've had women do it to me and also request it (or say things like, "give me your number, I'll call it and then you can have mine"). Obviously if it's done aggressively, it's an aggressive move, but it's usually just a convenience thing. And because it's extremely common, giving out a fake phone number is probably a bad idea.
@HellBooks STOP MISOGYNETISING YOU RAPIST!!!! ;-)
@HellBooks I'd still rather be a foolishly naive and shamefully deceitful child than a murder victim.
@HellBooks
1. It shouldn't be hard for anyone to see why feminists claiming to want women to be strong and empowered and stand up for themselves like mature adults and then turning around and advising them to lie to men and give out fake numbers instead of actually being strong and honest, is a joke. No matter what reason one gives for such behavior it is in fact the total opposite of being strong, empowered or courageous.
2. As I said before, it's 2014 and most number exchanges end with one person dialing the other so this advice is actually woefully stupid and could actually put a woman at an even higher risk when some drunk jerk asks for her number and discovers it's a fake on the spot.
3. Telling women not just to lie and provide a fake number but one that links to a site that will text the guy back some feminist quotes is clearly intended as a childish purposely antagonistic HAHA GOTCHA!! FU!! to the guy who asked for her number. That's not boldness or empowerment. It's a low class petty prank.
@AdamM If women weren't terrified of being killed after a "NO" maybe they wouldn't need to give out fake numbers. This is why I am more or less agoraphobic and rarely leave the house. I've had too many scary experiences including surviving attempted murder.
Noble effort, and I'm sure some people will appreciate it... But a band-aid cannot fix a bullet wound. Instead of women figuring out ways to stop getting harassed, we need tonfocus on ways to get men to stop harassing women.
Here is one idea for free: Raise your damn kids.
@Logan Towsley@facebook Thank you!
I can't believe it has gotten this bad. When I've been turned down I always thought, it's better than being someone who is not interested. I honestly don't get it why some guys get it. Seriously something's need to change.
This is delightfully subversive. I've shared it on my Facebook timeline and a number of women of my acquaintance have taken it up and passed it along themselves.
To those who are saying giving out a fake number is immature or a mere prank, seems to me it's more a matter of practical self-defense . . . with some excellent observations from bell hooks into the bargain.
And it's so much kinder than pepper spray.
Seriously, guys. All of this is a revelation to me, too. I really had just no idea women actually have to put up with this stuff. It just never occurred to me because it's never been part of my experience.
Listen to the stories, and recognize what a gift the bell hooks Hotline could be to a woman faced with yet another persistent creep in a culture that still, even now, protects and privileges and propagates the attitudes and behaviors of which that creep is just a slightly more extreme example.
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