you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]HighlandsJean_Claude93 20 ポイント21 ポイント

From one great author to another:

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.” ― Mark Twain

[–]Irelandcarlcon 11 ポイント12 ポイント

Calling her a great author in the same sentence as Twain made me flinch pretty hard.

[–]United Kingdomandyjonesx 22 ポイント23 ポイント

I'm a fan of classic fiction, but your comment was so damn pretentious.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It's pretentious to consider it ridiculous to compare a (so far) one hit wonder to Twain?

I'm pretentious then. Happily.

[–]michaelkepler 11 ポイント12 ポイント

It's ridiculous to dismiss authors based on the fact that they produced only one hit wonder. To Kill a Mockingbird, Catch-22, Gone with the Wind, Dracula, and Frankenstein are all one hit wonders, but I'd argue that their authors should get a proper recognition.

Elsewhere you say that "measuring talent by modern day success is no way to do anything". Neither is measuring it by how prolific an author is.

[–]Irelandcarlcon -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I'm not even remotely suggesting being prolific is important. Having more than one success is important, however, when talking about "great" writers.

[–]UserNotAvailable 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Can you really consider her a one hit wonder?

She has written 7 successful books. Just because they are part of the same series doesn't condense them into one book. By that measure Tolkien is an even worse author. And those boring Rolling stones, all they play is rock music. Talk about a one trick pony.

You could almost classify Terry Prattchet as one hit wonder. Almost all his most successful books are part of the Discworld universe.

[–]Irelandcarlcon -1 ポイント0 ポイント

The last five books were selling out before anyone read a single page. Each one sold on the success of the last. She literally couldn't fail as soon as the early books reached the level they did.

Those books are one tale following one character, not like most of the others you mentioned. She created a massive franchise based on one hit. She's a huge success, absolutely, but her writing ability just hasn't been proven yet. Let's see what she can do with something that isn't guaranteed success.

[–]GibraltarLlanita 0 ポイント1 ポイント

She's a huge success, absolutely, but her writing ability just hasn't been proven yet.

She wrote The Cuckoo's Calling, an adult crime fiction under a pseudonym.

The book received almost universal critical acclaim despite not being a huge commercial event.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The last five books were selling out before anyone read a single page. Each one sold on the success of the last. She literally couldn't fail as soon as the early books reached the level they did.

Those books are one tale following one character, not like most of the others you mentioned. She created a massive franchise based on one hit.

[–]HighlandsJean_Claude93 0 ポイント1 ポイント

“This book is merely a personal narrative, and not a pretentious history or a philosophical dissertation. It is a record of several years of variegated vagabondizing, and it's object is rather to help the resting reader while away an idle hour than afflict him with metaphysics, or goad him with science.” - Mark Twain, 'Roughing It'

They wrote to provide me and you both with enjoyment and I feel they were/are great at doing just that.

[–]basedbroseph 10 ポイント11 ポイント

Harry Potter is my shit bro.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Mark Twain is hardly known outside of the Anglosphere, whilst JK Rowling and her Harry Potter franchise is arguably the most successful work of fiction ever written.

Is it because she hasn't been dead for a hundred years that she doesn't even qualify as a comparison to Mark Twain?

[–]jpmezart 21 ポイント22 ポイント

In what universe is Mark Twain unknown outside of the anglosphere?

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

Outside of the literary communities, few people have actually read Mark Twain. Throughout my life, I've never once (to my knowledge) heard anyone actually talk about Mark Twain outside of the internet, books or in other media, and it's not because I only hang out with illiterate imbeciles.

[–]jpmezart 12 ポイント13 ポイント

Pretty much everybody I know (in South America and in Europe) knows at least Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn.

[–]Romaniaanarchisto 10 ポイント11 ポイント

In Eastern Europe, Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn have always been very popular.

[–]European UnionGtexx 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Tom Sawyer is also popular in France.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I might be mistaken then, I simply personally haven't really really ever heard about Twain outside of the interwebs.

[–]Romaniaanarchisto 4 ポイント5 ポイント

I read these books back when I was a kid.

Anyway, I know there were plenty of movies based on it from outside the English-language countries:

[–]ItalyLouis_de_Lasalle 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Mark Twain is hardly known outside of the Anglosphere, whilst JK Rowling and her Harry Potter franchise is arguably the most successful work of fiction ever written.

That is horrible logic. Since when has great art been measured by mass appeal?

[–]United Kingdomdemostravius 11 ポイント12 ポイント

Great art has no measure other than opinion.

[–]ItalyLouis_de_Lasalle 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The opinion of who? Does the opinion of a man who has read 4 books in his life count as much as that of the one who has read a thousand? Does the opinion of Oscar Wilde on Shakespeare count in equal measure to the opinion of the seventeen year old in college?

[–]United Kingdomdemostravius 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Different people like different styles of writing. For example I love to read, but I thought Lord of the Rings was boring and badly written. I am sure someone who likes that style however could tell me in detail why it's genius.

If mass appeal doesn't count as a method of measure, why does quantity of books count? I have read hundreds but still don't like some of the greats.

Reading a lot of books you already consider to be great is rather a self fulfilling cycle. It it's not in that style it cannot be considered great.

A lot of people like to say Rowling is crude (after all it is a childs book) however great complexity of writing can easily take away from the quality as it makes reading a chore not a pleasure. Not all characters have to have immense depth (and those who have depth still get criticised for being predictable or not deep enough).

For me the originality of the story, the interwoven characters (though I wish books 1-3 would be re-written with all the original content), the sheer grip the book holds on the reader and the amounts of research that went into the story are what make it a great book. For example the different terms for spells are based on different languages depending on their use.

Household spells tend to be based off of Old English words, because English household words are usually rooted in Old English. More business like and grand spells are based on Latin, as our business words are often rooted in Latin. The same applies to Greek and medical spells.

At the end of the day everyone has their own opinions and no matter how much you read not everyone will agree what makes a good book.

[–]European Unionhughk 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Twain is known in Germany. He toured the place and famously took the piss out of the language whilst actually being quite good at it.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I replied to the other comment making practically the same argument.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 29 ポイント30 ポイント

Measuring talent by modern day success is no way to do anything.

Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey have reached more eyes around the world too. Bieber has out-sold most bands from the 60s and 70s. The Kardashians get more screen time than practically anyone ever.

Harry Potter is an above average children's book that had great backing and became a massive franchise as a result of said backing.

Comparing her writing ability to any of the greats is preposterous. One popular book series does not make a great.

[–]my-new-account1 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Bieber has out-sold most bands from the 60s and 70s.

Well that bit isn't true. Music doesn't sell anywhere near as well as it used to. You can get a #1 album in the USA with just 180k sales these days. Back in the 60's and 70's if you were a big star then you were a big seller. Now you can be a big star simply based on publicity, and have most of the income come in through all kinds of ways that were never even thought of back in the 60's/70's.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Unlike 50 Shades of Grey, Twilight and whatever else nonsense you just listed, Rowling is almost universally praised as one of the all-time greatest children's literature authors.

And what's this non-sense about great backing? The initial printing of The Philosopher's Stone was a meagre 500 copies, it was hardly pre-determined to be a best seller.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Your point was about how Rowling has reached more modern eyes than Twain. I was merely showing how useless that point was.

Again, one popular book series... No, one popular children's book series does not make a great writer. Nobody is doubting her popularity amongst the tweens of HP's prime years who grew up with her. The doubt arises when her writing abilities are compared to anyone of note in the literary world.

Just look at the shite she wrote after it. For now, she's a one hit wonder.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken 9 ポイント10 ポイント

Not sure if one-hit-wonder applies when the series consists of 7 fairly long books, spanning a decade.

The shite she wrote after, to my knowledge, consists of one book. Seeing how she isn't dead yet, labeling her a mediocre author outside of the HP series seems somewhat premature.

And you seem to not fully understand what "children's literature" means, when you pan it for being popular amongst tweens. That's the point, it's not written for adults.

And I would also like to direct you towards reddiquette seeing how you apparently insta-downvote my comments, as if it was some sort of disagreement button.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Said like a true fanboy/girl. Again, the popularity of the franchise is amazing. The quality of the writer is not. Popularity is not talent.

And fuck off with your "reddiquitte". I haven't downvoted you once. It's probably the people upvoting me that have downvoted your nonsense.

[–]IcelandHeinz_Tomato_Ketchup 4 ポイント5 ポイント

I've never rated Twain very highly anyway. I find Rowling much better and her books are more enjoyable. IMO.

[–]Irelandbunnybutt420 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I disagree. The fact that she accomplishes her goals, and maintains a consistent style, makes her a competent author. Labeling her as a great writer is vastly premature, and discounts the work of others who have earned the distinction of greatness.

I'm sorry, but mass-market appeal is not a reliable barometer for literary greatness.

[–]IrelandDry_Gulch 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Twilight

He compared children's fantasy with children's fantasy. What's the problem? If you're willing to put Rowling on the same pedestal as some of the great authors throughout history then you don't read enough non - children's fiction.

Next you'll be telling me that Dr. Who is a work of art.

[–]Reagan did nothing wrongZander_Thegr8 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Children's literature really stands up to Twain's works huh?

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You judging her work by her intended audience rather than her literary ability within the genre says more about you then her.

[–]Arizona. Sorry.paradigm_drift 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Let's be honest -- she's not a fantastic writer and never was. She's great at world-building and crafting a plot, but she's not a prose stylist or anything. She's not on Twain's level. She won't be read in 100 years. I love her books but they're pulp and she never pretended otherwise.

[–]Reagan did nothing wrongZander_Thegr8 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Stating that the value of children's books can compare in any way to Mark Twain's literary and ideological input says more about you than her.

[–]GermanyEuroStraight 5 ポイント6 ポイント

But Twain's books are still read. I strongly doubt that Rowling's books will still be read long after her death. That is the difference between great art and merely popular entertainment, the first has a timeless quality while the second is strictly contemporary.

Rhianna has had more fans, performed in front of more people, and made way more money than Mozart. But 200 years from now she will be completely forgotten.. in fact it will take a lot less than 200 years for that to happen.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

I find it unlikely that the HP series will be forgotten anytime soon in the same manner modern pop musicians are forgotten.

[–]SocialistCyridius -1 ポイント0 ポイント

I highly doubt today's children have read Harry Potter.

[–]United KingdomFrankeh 6 ポイント7 ポイント

You must be mental. They'll have their parents copies to read!

[–]razvan616 0 ポイント1 ポイント

It would be interesting to see what the world would remember about her 100 years after she is dead.

[–]Faroe Islandspowerchicken -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Interesting indeed.

[–]United KingdomFrankeh 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Oh come off it. Harry Potter was an absolute phenomenon. They were extremely solid books and they'll stand the test of time..

[–]European UnionRarehero 4 ポイント5 ポイント

She has a great imagination and I love the world she has created, but the books are poorly written. For example the character reactions are often implausible - which is partly because of the premise that each book covers a school season at Hogwarts

[–]CymruYBrenin 1 ポイント2 ポイント

They were, however, filled with some highly questionable prose.

[–]Irelandcarlcon 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Again, not questioning their popularity. And again, popularity does not equal talent.