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/r/allHeretic! (farleftside.com)

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[–]AcidCH 143 ポイント144 ポイント

http://i.imgur.com/fv86Rsx.gif

[–]SirPsychoSxy 38 ポイント39 ポイント

I wish stuff like this would get deleted off this sub. This post has nothing to do with atheism, it's more anti-theism. I'm tired of atheists complaining about the shortcomings of theists, but not holding the same standards of "portray what you preach" to themselves. The double-standards I see here sometimes makes me ashamed to be an atheist. Kinda like how most Christians feel when the WBC makes the news, or how most Muslims feel getting judged by the actions of Al Qaeda.

Edit because someone asked: I am not trolling/a troll. I don't even know how this could be construed as a troll comment.

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE 28 ポイント29 ポイント

This post has nothing to do with atheism, it's more anti-theism.

So then what do you suggest an atheist sub be filled with?

A non-golfer's sub won't be filled with much, as apart from not golfing, people in the sub don't really share anything in common. What we share on r/atheism, is, well, our atheism. As atheists, we like to point out the hypocrisy of men who pretend to know the source of God-given morality and who act as our moral guidance. What is wrong with this?

The double-standards I see here sometimes makes me ashamed to be an atheist.

Unless you're somehow saying that atheists somehow publicly profess to be atheists, while secretly being followers of God, I don't know what double-standard you are talking about.

[–]Anti-Theistandrewjkwhite [score hidden]

I think what he's saying is "I am offended by how accurate this is and it makes me uncomfortable, additionally I do not understand comedic hyperbole"

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE [score hidden]

It seems to me that there are a lot of confused feelings in there, but I have a hard time understanding why he is feeling offended. I know he knows he is offended, but honestly I'm not sure he knows why he's offended either. Maybe he's just tired of all the religion-bashing, I dunno.

[–]SirPsychoSxy -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

The double-standard is atheists saying Christians should be perfect according to their bibles and society's morals, yet some atheists can't abide by their own professions of how people should act, let alone trying to follow scripture. R/atheism should be about atheist culture, atheist's experiences, atheist's perceptions on things that are, so far, inexplicable, and so on and so forth. Not trying to shame or bash religions/religious people. That's what I mean by the contrast of atheism v. anti-theism.

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE 14 ポイント15 ポイント

The double-standard is atheists saying Christians should be perfect according to their bibles and society's morals, yet some atheists can't abide by their own professions of how people should act, let alone trying to follow scripture.

Christians say that everyone should follow God's rules/laws/whatever. Atheists delight in poking fun at the hypocrisy of the leaders of religious movements saying that, while at the same time committing acts that no sane or moral person would think is justified. Atheists are not claiming from a pulpit to be the world's lifeline to the source of morality while at the same time diddling kids and covering it up.

Atheism doesn't even have a set of morals. For that you'd have to look to secular humanism. In any case, secular humanist morality does say that we should try and act a certain way, that we will sometimes fail, and how to act when we will fail. Secular humanist organizations don't claim one thing from a pulpit while doing another in secret. Your double standard fails, because we're holding them to their own (impossible) standard, while respecting our own more reasonable standard.

R/atheism should be about atheist culture, atheist's experiences, atheist's perceptions on things that are, so far, inexplicable, and so on and so forth.

Sure! I'd love to see more of that! Here, we have an example of an atheist's experience with the hypocrisy of the Catholic Church, and its obliviousness also, given that something like 80% of Catholics in the developed world have no problem with using contraceptives themselves.

Not trying to shame or bash religions/religious people.

So, if there was a politician who was being bribed and who imported child sex slaves from Thailand, do you not think that politician deserves to be bashed? Do you not think that the people who participated in that deserve to be bashed? Do you not think that people who still continue to donate money to this politician, despite knowing that the money will be used to defend the politician, and knowing that the money will be used to buy more child sex slaves, deserve to be bashed?

[–]SirPsychoSxy -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

I don't know how to do the excerpt thing, so I'll use bullet points. 1. There are no "commandments" for atheists that I know of, or anything of the sort. But I can imagine that most who abstain or are against religion, have a higher moral code than religious texts, which is sometimes a major factor in people removing themselves from religion. Even with our more reasonable(sometimes only personal) standard, it is still hard to abide by. Passion overcomes everyone at some point. No one can, or will be, perfect. Pointing out the flaws in others from your own perception, is what religious extremists kill over. 2. This, to me at least, isn't an atheistic belief. It's an observation of a theistic belief not being upheld. It's not someone saying, "this is my thought," it's someone saying, "this is my thought on what other people are doing." Isn't the latter one of the biggest flaws of theism? "Don't worry about me, that person is breaking the rules." 3. That has no bearing on religion whatsoever. That is a humanity issue, no matter what religion you associate with. No religion(that I know of) condones that kind of act.

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I don't know how to do the excerpt thing, so I'll use bullet points.

Put in the "greater than" symbol (>), then copy the sentence you want after it. Press enter to leave 2 spaces below, and it'll appear as a quote.

Even with our more reasonable(sometimes only personal) standard, it is still hard to abide by. Passion overcomes everyone at some point. No one can, or will be, perfect. Pointing out the flaws in others from your own perception, is what religious extremists kill over.

The difference is, again, we don't expect people to be perfect because it's impossible. If people expect of themselves to be perfect, and then act holier than thou because they show how they obey that perfect code of conduit, it's perfectly acceptable to point out all the times when people can't follow, especially if it's an abysmal failure to follow basic concepts of empathy like with the RCC and kiddy-diddling. They stop pretending to be perfect paragons of virtue, we'll stop poking holes in their ideas. They stop proclaiming to have the ultimate moral truth, we'll stop pointing out the hypocrisy.

This, to me at least, isn't an atheistic belief. It's an observation of a theistic belief not being upheld. It's not someone saying, "this is my thought," it's someone saying, "this is my thought on what other people are doing." Isn't the latter one of the biggest flaws of theism? "Don't worry about me, that person is breaking the rules."

The only atheistic belief is "I don't believe in God". That's is. There are no other beliefs. Everything else comes from a secular humanist perspective. And we're not saying "don't worry about me", we're saying "look, that person believes things that are not rational, and human beings will suffer from it."

That has no bearing on religion whatsoever. That is a humanity issue, no matter what religion you associate with. No religion(that I know of) condones that kind of act.

No religion condones that kind of act, but that the RCC is paying millions to try to make settlements out of court, to relocate pedophile priests, not making efforts to prevent repeat offenders from raping more kids, is opposed to laws that would help children who have been molested to sue the church, completely blows out of the water any of their claims that they care about anything other than their reputation and their money.

It's a human issue, but the very reason why this problem has persisted for so long is because it's being perpetrated by a religious institution. Any other institution doing the same kind of thing would have either been sued into oblivion or boycotted until it disappeared. And yet the RCC still perseveres thanks to the collection plate they pass out in every church on every Sunday around the world.

[–]GoodGuyAnusDestroyer -1 ポイント0 ポイント

  1. There are no "commandments" for atheists that I know of, or anything of the sort. But I can imagine that most who abstain or are against religion, have a higher moral code than religious texts, which is sometimes a major factor in people removing themselves from religion. Even with our more reasonable(sometimes only personal) standard, it is still hard to abide by. Passion overcomes everyone at some point. No one can, or will be, perfect. Pointing out the flaws in others from your own perception, is what religious extremists kill over.

  2. This, to me at least, isn't an atheistic belief. It's an observation of a theistic belief not being upheld. It's not someone saying, "this is my thought," it's someone saying, "this is my thought on what other people are doing." Isn't the latter one of the biggest flaws of theism? "Don't worry about me, that person is breaking the rules."

  3. That has no bearing on religion whatsoever. That is a humanity issue, no matter what religion you associate with. No religion(that I know of) condones that kind of act.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

You just copied my comment as a reply to itself. Good job?

[–]BJ2K 17 ポイント18 ポイント

Many of us are anti-theists as well. Personally, I see religion as a parasite to society. It's hindering both technological and moral progress.

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

You have every right and freedom to! All I'm saying is, "keep atheism in r/atheism, and anti-theism in r/antitheism." A lot of people think of atheism as anti-theism. Surely, you can agree that there is a difference between the two.

[–]BJ2K 8 ポイント9 ポイント

Sure, but I think anti-theism posts have every right to be here if people upvote them.

[–]SirPsychoSxy -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

And if enough people pray this will be the top post of all time? Just because people are behind it, doesn't mean it's right.

[–]thenickb[🍰] 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Woah... actually, on reddit that's exactly what it means. Upvotes are the objective arbiter of whether or not something is right for a sub.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

If you have time, please explain to me why the most popular post right now has the top-comment against the post itself. Because most people in this sub are more willing to look at a cartoon with one word, rather than read or partake in a discussion about its context.

[–]mrdanneskjold [score hidden]

So... according your idea of rightness, what ought to be the top post of all time? lol

WE MUST SOLVE THE DIFFICULT AND IMPORTANT PROBLEM BEFORE R/ATHEISM DESTROYS THE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD

[–]FunctionalDrunk -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Theists typically view atheism as anti-theism. If theism is the truth of the world, then atheism is against it.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

But atheism is not anti-theism. There wouldn't be two different words for it if it was the same thing. Anti-theism is strictly against theism. Atheism is just the absence of theism.

[–]rex_regis 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Atheism doesn't say anything about moral behavior. It really doesn't. It's just an ideal that rejects the concept of a supernatural power. It doesn't go over how we should act, what we should do, what is right and what is wrong. Secular humanism I think is what you're trying to get at, which is more of an application of atheism to how we should act (i.e. we are all humans, we should treat everyone equally, or purpose is what we find and meaning is important because this is it, science should help progress human longevity and living standards, etc etc).

The big difference is that atheism doesn't tell others to behave a certain manner and condemning those who do not behave accordingly to an eternity of suffering (depending on belief). How can we not laugh when they condemn us for "immoral behavior" when they themselves cannot follow their own stipulations?

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I haven't heard the term, "secular humanism" until today. You're right, in that atheism does not say how people should act, and I never claimed it did. I was just under the assumption that atheists are all pro-human rights, because I've always seen religion as some-human rights.

[–]IConrad -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Antitheism is a part of atheist culture. You're saying that this subreddit should not be filled with antitheism but should have antitheism instead.

Also, unlike Christians we have no formal moral guides nor requirements. Pointing out that Christians fail to comply with their standards doesn't make us hypocrites when we also don't comply with them; they're not our standards!

Just pointing out a couple of the more glaringly wrong points you raised.

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Anti-theism is not part of atheist culture, that's what I have a problem with in this sub. This is just my assumption, and boy is it a big one, but if atheists literally had no moral code, our prisons would be so full they'd be bursting at the seams. Humans in general, have a basic moral code or instinct of how to act. Religion just teaches us how to discriminate.

[–]IConrad [score hidden]

Anti-theism is not part of atheist culture, that's what I have a problem with in this sub.

This is wrong as a matter of fact. There is an overall cultural identity that atheists in general fall within, and one facet of that cultural identity is that some/many atheists are anti-theist.

This is just my assumption, and boy is it a big one, but if atheists literally had no moral code, our prisons would be so full they'd be bursting at the seams.

Okay see this is the sort of shit that is making people think you are a concern troll. Try to follow the logic here, sir.

Atheism in and of itself says nothing about what is or is not morally acceptable. People who are atheists do not therefore look to their atheism for what is or is not morally acceptable.

To say that atheists have no formal moral guides nor requirements does not say that atheists have no morality. It merely means that anyone who is an atheist does not get their morality from their atheism. We get it from somewhere else.

[–]StrangeworldEU -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

R/atheism should be about atheist culture

Non-existent then. I'd be okay with that.

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

If atheist culture is non-existent, this sub wouldn't be here.

[–]StrangeworldEU -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Oh, I was unaware that there was a paradox (The game company) culture. By your logic, there must be, since /r/paradoxplaza exist.

[–]thoramighty -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

It is one thing to not hold yourself to any doctrine or higher power its another to berate others for their beliefs. Wait where have I heard this before..........

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE 4 ポイント5 ポイント

its another to berate others for their beliefs.

I don't see anything wrong with that. Would you really not berate someone if they thought they could make people fly to Neverland by pushing them off the top of a skyscraper?

People deserve respect, not ideas nor beliefs. If you want someone to respect your ideas and beliefs, be prepared to show why they should be respected.

[–]thoramighty [score hidden]

You are correct that it would be best to dissuade the person from that belief but what you say has no context in this conversation. If you want people to respect atheism than stop showing that the majority of the atheist community is antitheist. You may not like something but it doesn't mean you need to belittle others for it. You are on the same level as the bible thumping god fearing man for your own belief or lack there of.

[–]PastafarianBCRE8TVE [score hidden]

If you want people to respect atheism than stop showing that the majority of the atheist community is antitheist.

Why are you making it seem as though there is an opposition between respect and antitheism? You make it seem as though antitheism shouldn't be respected.

You may not like something but it doesn't mean you need to belittle others for it.

You may not like female genital mutilation but it doesn't mean you need to belittle others for it.

I agree with you that I don't need to belittle others, and I don't always do it, I just do it when I think it's deserved.

You are on the same level as the bible thumping god fearing man for your own belief or lack there of.

How about you come back to me when I'll be trying to legislate women's bodies away, push for theocratic rules in the country, am pro-bigotry and pro-oppression of LGBTQ, and when I'm trying to convince people that if they don't think exactly like me then they'll be tortured forever in a lake of fire? Until I do any of those things, you comparing me to a bible thumping god fearing man is like me comparing a mouse to an elephant because they're both breathing.

I am allowed my own opinions, I am allowed to express them in public, and I am absolutely allowed to bash and diss anyone else's ideas, opinions and beliefs. The difference is, I'm not trying to shove it down everyone else's throats, whether they agree with it or not.

[–]brickmack [score hidden]

If it's socially acceptable to make fun of people believing in Santa, then I should be able to make fun of other beliefs

[–]Skepticveggiesama 3 ポイント4 ポイント

It's not so much anti-theism as anti-Catholic. Even so, the nun is portrayed positively, so I think it would be more accurate to say it's just anti-authority (male priests and bishops) and anti-hypocrisy (sinners casting stones).

Argue that it's distasteful or insensitive all you want, but the comic represents a few reasons for why many atheists became atheists in the first place.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

Anti-catholic is still closer to anti-theistic than it is to atheistic. Whether from the perspective of the nun or the priest, it's still hypocrisy. But how many people can say they've never betrayed something they believe in(atheist or theist)?

[–]Skepticveggiesama [score hidden]

The Catholic Church is a political organization. It has dogmas and traditions, but the comic has nothing to do with any of that. It's not questioning the existence of God, transubstantiation, marriage, or any of that--it's questioning the men in power and their claim to divine authority, despite their blatant hypocrisy.

An anti-theistic cartoon would tackle one of those dogmatic issues or at least take the extra step to claim that everything the Catholic church does is bad-bad-bad.

A Protestant could have penned this cartoon without being considered anti-theistic.

Regardless, the whole agnostic-atheist-antitheist spectrum is so ill-defined that it's pointless to argue over semantics. If you object to the cartoon because it's in bad taste and makes you feel "ashamed," just say so, not that it's being untrue to make-believe atheist values. Otherwise it's a No True Scotsman fallacy--"no True Atheist would make such a bad cartoon!"

[–]Lebagel 2 ポイント3 ポイント

"Ashamed to be an atheist"? What the hell? It's not like a fashion brand, football team or a religion or something. Isn't that like half your own point?

[–]SirPsychoSxy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

When things like this are posted as pro-atheism, yes, I do feel ashamed. Because this is not what atheism is. It's not talking about the double-standards or shortcomings of religious figures(a.k.a. other people). It's definitely not about trying to make other people look foolish or perpetuating hatred toward the religious. Atheism is living, believing that there is no intelligent design, there is no omnipotent or clandestine being judging everything you do or think. To me, atheism is thinking, "If I were living on a planet with 7 billion of me, how would I act," without thinking "what if they turned on me?" I have nothing but compassion for everyone I encounter, until it is determined I cannot afford to be compassionate.

[–]newaccount 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I don't even know how this could be construed as a troll comment.

Considering that this post has 1500+ upvotes, it's likely those doing the upvoting will take offence at your interupting the circlejerk. 'Troll' is the usual tactic to devaluate someone's opinion around here, though "no true scotsman" is very popular this week.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

Never heard the, "no true Scotsman," remark before. But when I commented, the post had sub-900 karma at 4 hours old, and the top-comment I replied to had about 40.

[–]Anti-Theistthreelite 0 ポイント1 ポイント

There's no sub-reddit for people who explicity don't watch TV. If there was, they would have little to talk about other than how bad they think TV is.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

You missed the other comment about golfers v. non-golfers. If I wanted to create a community for people who did things other than watch tv explicitly, I'd call it something like r/atelevision. If I wanted to creat a community for people who hated tv and wanted it abolished and removed from society, I'd call it r/antitelevision. Some people are having a difficult time discerning the differences between prefixes. Prefixes are real and have meaning in the words we use them. A and anti are both prefixes that give/add meaning to the words we place them in front of.

[–]Anti-Theistthreelite [score hidden]

So you're suggesting we talk about everything but religion?

[–]NihilistHatchetToGather 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm all for anti-theism on this sub, but we could at least tone it down a bit. If we're right then we obviously don't need to keep screaming about it all the time.

I hate religion too. But that doesn't mean it's okay to act like an ass.

[–]blastmemer 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Isn't a cartoon implying that people should make sure that they live moral lives before judging others a post that advances an atheistic morality system? An atheistic morality system is an alternative to a theistic one, so it is often effective to compare both alternatives when advocating for one or the other. If I advocated deep frying turkeys I don't think I should have to restrict myself from pointing out the pitfalls of microwaved turkey or risk being labeled a mean rubbery turkey basher.

[–]Pastafarianjamecquo -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Then why are you member of this sub? By definition we share nothing except that we don't believe in god. God bashing is practically the only reason for this sub.

[–]BrotherChe [score hidden]

No, it's not. Yo umay think that, but plenty of people here disagree with that notion.

[–]K_Swag 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Unfortunately it has to exist, but I'm glad it does r/trueathiesm

[–]IConrad 1 ポイント2 ポイント

It was construed as a troll comment because it was formulated as a classic concern troll.

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I don't even know what that means. If someone shows concern about a topic they must not be serious? I'm not a professional redditor, I just comment where feel like I can without being redundant.

[–]IConrad [score hidden]

"concern troll" has nothing to do with reddit. The term predates the existence of reddit.

concern troll:

Someone who posts to an internet forum or newsgroup, claiming to share its goals while deliberately working against those goals, typically, by claiming "concern" about group plans to engage in productive activity, urging members instead to attempt some activity that would damage the group's ...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/concern_troll

[–]david12scht 0 ポイント1 ポイント

How are we using double standards? Which atheist is defending child molestation, or doing it themselves? Show me one, and I'll be the first to be handing out pitchforks.

[–]SirPsychoSxy [score hidden]

The double standard is bastardizing a particular person of a specific sect for not upholding "their own morals/beliefs." It's not a comic of Average Joe getting head. It's specifically detrimental to one group, and more so, to one sex. You never see articles of atheists raping or molesting boys/girls/teens/adults. Does that mean it doesn't happen? Do you people really care about people getting harmed in general, or more about specific groups causing harm to people? If an atheist rapes or molests, it won't be here on this sub. But anytime a Catholic or Presbyterian or Mormon does it, you hand out the pitchforks!

How about we stop handing out pitchforks? Didn't, y'know, the Christians hand out pitchforks to harm people they didn't like? Seriously.

[–]Knight of /newrAtheismSelfPostOnly 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I'm tired of people complaining about r/atheism that have never contributed anything of quality to this sub (or any). I wish comments like this would get deleted.

[–]SirPsychoSxy -1 ポイント0 ポイント

This one comment has generated over a dozen replies, I'd say that's a contribution.

[–]Knight of /newrAtheismSelfPostOnly [score hidden]

I can't consider complaining as much of a contribution. You want more of what you've never given. I don't think you should be complaining about this community.

[–]AtheistSlaughterMeister -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Did you honestly just compare /r/atheism to Al Qaeda?

[–]SirPsychoSxy 0 ポイント1 ポイント

I was comparing the double-standards given off by the apparent majority. Just because people only hear about the mission of the Muslim group Al Qaeda, doesn't mean that's how all Muslims are. Especially considering in the Quran there is a passage along the lines of, "I will not worship who ye worship, do not worship who I worship," and Al Qaeda threatens under consequence of death the nonbelievers of their religion. Not saying r/atheism is like Al Qaeda. Just that the silent majority is judged based on the noisiest ones. You know what I mean?