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[IFF] Rape jokes (i.imgur.com)

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[–]mittromneysass -15 ポイント-14 ポイント

It has already been proven that rape jokes are harmful in many ways. I'm not sure what else is needed to convince people not to say them. but hur dur ma free speech dude sigh

[–]SadBonesMalone 18 ポイント19 ポイント

I think it depends a lot on the rape joke. Generally, yeah, rape jokes are pretty artless and don't do anything to help anyone. But some comedians are able to craft jokes that illustrate the problem rather then perpetuate it. The joke contained in the original post is sort of an example, lampooning a ridiculous idea that underlies rape culture (i.e. she was asking for it by dressing that way). Humor can be used in a lot of ways, in the right hands it can help people understand complicated issues by offering a new perspective.

[–]mittromneysass -1 ポイント0 ポイント

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFt8N1cf7mc

The only 'acceptable' rape joke I've ever heard was Jamie Kilstein's material The victim isn't the butt of the joke and it's not descriptive about the rape itself.

But still TW: RAPE cause I haven't seen the video in a while and can't remember a lot about it

[–]-TheMAXX- 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That describes all rape jokes I have ever heard. They are never at the expense of the victim as far as any i have come across.

[–]mittromneysass 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Really? I always hear rape jokes at the expense of the victim and descriptive of the actual rape. If it's a woman victim, what she wore/said/her perfume/her father/her breasts/whether she is considered pretty or not. All of these and more are stuff I've heard joked about within the context of a rape joke. And prison rape jokes are just god fucking awful because prison rape is seen as an even bigger joke than gen pop rape.

If you look down a few comments you will see some studies I linked that show the negative effect of rape jokes.

[–]213286444478 [score hidden]

Really? I always hear rape jokes at the expense of the victim and descriptive of the actual rape.

Are you talking about comedians you can point out or everyday people telling the jokes?

[–]baethan 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Hey, not arguing here--I haven't come across anything discussing that, could you link something?

[–]mittromneysass 7 ポイント8 ポイント

Sure!

http://www.liberateyourself.co.uk/survivors/you-are-not-alone-personal-experiences/to-all-those-men-who-dont-think-the-rape-jokes-are-a-problem/

http://shell.newpaltz.edu/jsec/articles/volume7/issue3/Thomae_Vol7Iss3.pdf

http://www.uiowa.edu/~grpproc/crisp/crisp13_10.pdf

http://jiv.sagepub.com/content/25/12/2339.abstract

These are just a few. They talk about the effects of rape jokes on male audience members. Before anyone comments this, yes they should have not only focused on the male members of the audience. I'm not saying that only males rape (feminists are always accused of saying this... sigh)

[–]baethan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Thanks! I'll give them a read

[–]PCAMPBELL123 9 ポイント10 ポイント

To me it's more about the fact that putting something on pedestal seems to only make it more difficult to talk about and have honest, open discussions about. In comedy, no subject should be off limits IMHO; finding the humor in things is often what seems to help put things in perspective and helps people feel comfortable having a more serious discussion about the topic. Especially if we laugh at the joke, then we can examine what exactly we laughed at and why, hopefully learning about yourself in the process.

Or that's what I do anyway. Maybe I'm just weird.

[–]mittromneysass -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

In this case, you are saying that you are putting rape victims on a pedestal by not mocking their traumatic experience for a few laughs?

[–]olivias_bulge 2 ポイント3 ポイント

inferring the comedian is out to mock rape victims is a massive stretch, warping a horrible situation into a familiar joke is a staple of comedy.

Has anyone tried that new aftershave made in tribute to the Hindenburg disaster?
Eau De Humanity.

[–]-TheMAXX- -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Most good humor is all about connecting and identifying with each other. Someone trips and it is funny because that has happened to all of us so we get to identify with and comfort the person who just tripped through laughter. The situation you think about would only happen with the worst most hack of comedians or with bullies. For hack comedians and bullies the subject of the jokes don't matter as much as the intent towards a target.

[–]-TheMAXX- -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

Proven? You have scientific evidence as to the harmfulness of jokes? A single joke can be told and received in an infinite number of ways. Just the mention of the word tree might upset some people with particular traumatic histories. But you have proof that some general group of jokes are harmful in many ways?

[–]mittromneysass 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Many studies have been done.

[–]CaliforniaRocketFuel -1 ポイント0 ポイント

Free speech is a pretty poor argument, IMO. It doesn't mean whatever is being said is right, just that it isn't illegal to say. Like I said above, I tailor my sense of humour to the people I'm around. If someone is sensitive about something (rape, miscarriage, 9/11, etc) I don't make light of it.

[–]gargravarrr 4 ポイント5 ポイント

It's good that you're considerate in that way, but keep in mind that even close friends of yours could have rape or miscarriage in their past without you having the slightest idea.

[–]CaliforniaRocketFuel -1 ポイント0 ポイント

If someone is not open enough with me to tell me when I'm hurting their feelings, they're not worth the emotional investment of keeping around. That may be harsh, but I just can't deal with layers of bullshit. I know I'm not a perfect person, and I do my best to be aware of my faults. I don't get my self-esteem from the people around me, but through constant reflection and self-analysis.

I always try to measure an action by the intent behind it. If someone does or says something that deeply offends me, I try to see why they said or did that. People don't usually do things just to aggravate other people, they do what they think is "right". For example, I've had family members "gang up" on me and send me off to the psych ward. It sucked for me, because above all, I really, really didn't want to go. I forgave them not because I am fine with what they did, but because I see why they did it.

I'd hope anyone who knows me well enough that we're trading potentially offensive jokes understands how I see the world, and that my intent in making any joke is only to entertain, and nothing more.

[–]gargravarrr [score hidden]

Can't you imagine why a person wouldn't want to confront someone for making a joke about the most distressing thing that's ever happened to them?

[–]CaliforniaRocketFuel [score hidden]

I can imagine it, but I don't think it is healthy. Being dishonest with others about how you feel leads to quite a lot of misery down the road, exacerbated by the fact that you are too uncomfortable talking about your emotions to ask anyone to help you with it.

I assume someone out there who has been raped will read this. I don't think it is funny that you got raped, I just don't take life -or anything in it- seriously. I tried that for quite a long time and I just kept getting institutionalized and medicated. It sucks, yeah, and most days I still consider suicide before I get out of bed and take my pills, and perhaps I have a rather cavalier and insensitive view of the world. I am working on that. I find that if I don't laugh at tragic stuff like this, it overwhelms me. Humanity is capable of some pretty terrible things, and I am ashamed to be a part of it.

I guess I don't have time to tip toe through life trying not to offend anyone. People are sometimes not going to like me, and that's just how it is. Trying to please them all will not only disappoint them, but me. I think if you have some shit in your life, the only thing you can do is accept it. Hiding from emotional trauma won't work. People have the strangest ideas about presenting themselves. It is okay to have something bad happen in your life. It doesn't make you worth any less. You can't change the past, but you can develop the tools to realistically asses yourself and work with what you've got.

Personally, I find that the ability to see the humour in nearly every situation has only made my life better. I don't mean making rape jokes all the time, I mean making everything jokes when and where they fit. Life is a game we had no choice in playing, with rules we don't understand, and more players than the mind can comprehend. It is fucking silly is what it is.

If me making a joke genuinely makes your life worse, talk to me. Show me where the pain is, and what I could do to help. If not, we'll probably never meet, so I hope you get what you want from life.

[–]mittromneysass 3 ポイント4 ポイント

But in the right audience you would do rape jokes. I just want to know - what's so funny about rape? I'm honestly asking because to me it's not a funny thing, like I can't think about anything funny about it.

[–]CaliforniaRocketFuel 6 ポイント7 ポイント

To me, anything can be funny. I was once hospitalized for a suicide attempt, and there was a poster on the wall of my room that said "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again". I figure you can be offended by reality, or you can laugh at it.

Maybe we have different senses of humour, and that's okay. If we were hanging out, I wouldn't joke about stuff that you would find insensitive or insulting. Rape is a terrible thing. But apart from not raping people and trying not to get raped myself, there is nothing I can do about it. I can get angry and disappointed in humanity's aggressive and antagonistic nature, or I can laugh.

Not taking life seriously is the only way I can get through it. If that doesn't sit well with you, I truly am sorry, and I'll do my best to avoid exposing you to the offending thoughts and behaviours of mine. I'm not a normal person, I get that. But I can't force myself to be a different way, you know? Sure, I dream of a world without rape, without violence, but we are a long way from it. Our biological roots are full of that shit.

[–]untitledthegreat 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Rape obviously isn't funny, just like anything that hurts people isn't funny. But we laugh at people being hurt all the time in comedy since it isn't real. If the things in Tom and Jerry were happening in real life I'd be horrified. Since the violence is not meant to be taken seriously, I don't see a problem with laughing at it.

[–]JoshTheDerp 2 ポイント3 ポイント

Most things aren't funny by itself. However given if it's witty enough it can be funny. And rape, being a horrible thing, can be good for shock laughs.

[–]mittromneysass -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

Shock laughs mean the comic in question has no talent though. Rape isn't funny

[–]olivias_bulge 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Do you think "the aristocrats" is a funny joke/premise?

Most "rape jokes" use rape as a device to set up the actual joke, however the aristocrats uses shocking descriptions as a meta joke; the funny thing is watching them improvise horrible things, keep a straight face, and go to awful places you couldn't imagine. The content is SPECIFICALLY not funny, but the audience laughs at their collective uncomfortability and the outlandish descriptions of the comedian. Its performance comedy.

[–]mittromneysass -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

I have never heard of the aristocrats joke, except hearing there was a documentary on it or something. It doesn't sound like something I would support

[–]olivias_bulge [score hidden]

its a classic joke formula, based on performance and improvisation and has been around for years.

The performer will open with "a family walks into a talent agency and says we have a brand new act that will amaze and inspire you, you have to sign us."
The body of the joke is then improvised with descriptions of the most depraved, vile acts, exuberant gestures and diatribes about the most effed up things you can imagine" and ends with "wow, that was a thing... what you call it? The Aristocrats! (or the politicians, royal family etc etc)"

Anyway, often it mentions rape and scat and maybe even snuff elements. The humor is generally in the magnitude of depravity, creativity of the improvisation, and the light jab at the social elite at the end. Clever performers will incorporate other humor elements into the act (like sprinkling in very proper and civil bits amongst desriptions of say poop; contrast humor).

[–]nisroch 5 ポイント6 ポイント

that's your personal opinion.

my personal opinion is that 9/11 jokes can be funny. rape jokes can be funny. murder jokes can be funny.

[–]JoshTheDerp 3 ポイント4 ポイント

Rape is horrible and on the surface isn't funny. Neither is 9/11 nor even something as mundane as airports. But given the context, it can be funny.

Also, I would like to add that most rape jokes aren't funny, especially the ones on Reddit that are just repeated over and over.

[–]ryanissuper 2 ポイント3 ポイント

The subject of a joke usually isn't funny. That's why there is a joke.

[–]213286444478 [score hidden]

Shock laughs mean the comic in question has no talent though.

Shock humor can be funny and clever. But it seems its not of your liking.

[–]mittromneysass [score hidden]

I don't know if it's because I'm british (scottish) so more used to dry wit/'intelligent humour' or not.

And by 'intelligent humour' I don't mean that other forms of humour aren't, I just mean something that you have to concentrate on or follow along you know, like there should be a little more to it than the joke itself.

[–]213286444478 [score hidden]

What's your opinion of Jimmy Carr?

[–]hippieofkindness [score hidden]

This isn't true for all rape jokes because some are just cruel, but laughing about an awful truth can sometimes make it more bearable.

[–]213286444478 [score hidden]

what's so funny about rape?

Jesus, nothing is funny about rape. Why do you keep repeating that?

Nothing is funny abut the holocaust either, it's the jokes that can be funny.

I see Hitler and Kaiser Wilhelm at a diner. I ask them what they are up to. Hitler says they will kill 12,000,000 Jews and 3 clowns. I ask why the clowns. Wilhelm looks at Hitler and says "I told you nobody would care about zee jews!"

[–]olivias_bulge 0 ポイント1 ポイント

well the rape generally isnt the joke, the <insert shocking thing here> is a device to set up a joke or off balance the audience to slip in clever wordplay (statistically 9 of 10 ppl enjoy gang rape) or clever contrast/switcharoos (see OP).

[–]0O00O0O00O 0 ポイント1 ポイント

"Don't joke about Nazis, they killed 6 million and had my Jewish grandmother in fear of ever going outside, joking about them makes her tramatically recall the experience."

Humor has no bounds, it's a way of putting issues into a spotlight and think about them in an engaging way, if you're offended don't listen to said comedian and support him or her.

[–]mittromneysass 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I have already written about the conclusions found in previous studies. Well not written, but linked. It's in a comment on this thread somewhere.

Putting issues into the spotlight would be talking about how rape isn't taken seriously by many people. Rape jokes are perpetuating the issues!

[–]0O00O0O00O 1 ポイント2 ポイント

I don't know of any comdedian who seriously jokes about how rape is o.k. and how it should be done to men and women or that the victim was in the wrong.

That should really be the thing that people should want to stop, the rest is just parody, there's so much horror in the world that you have to joke about some things, everyone is going to be offended by something, there's billions of us.

[–]mittromneysass 0 ポイント1 ポイント

Can I ask what you thought about Tosh and how he handled the female in the audience, jumping to making a joke about how funny it would be if she was gang raped?

Among people who think rape jokes are ok, is that just another or was that not acceptable?

[–]_thefool 1 ポイント2 ポイント

Tosh asked the audience for subject matter. He then proceeded to riff about all the things that aren't funny about rape before the woman interrupted his show. If your going to interrupt a comedians show your in for a bad time. It's a fair joke based on the context of the situation.

[–]0O00O0O00O [score hidden]

While I think he had every right to do what he did, as she was heckling him and he is a dark comedian she paid to go see, I do think it wasn't a tasteful joke that made me laugh, and he could have done it more smartly. That's all it should have been regarded as, for in his artistic corner he has free reign to say or do anything. I don't see why anyone cares, and attention the people claiming he hates all women, etc., that the media brought just made him even more popular.

[–]arlet_o3 0 ポイント1 ポイント

How has it been proven that rape jokes are harmful? Besides just maybe an awful joke. Curious

[–]mittromneysass 3 ポイント4 ポイント

I linked it somewhere on this thread