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Dirk Hayhurst on why the unwritten rules are stupid (deadspin.com)

submitted by Colorado RockiesHugo_Hackenbush

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[–]Boston Red Soxslapadastic -35 ポイント-34 ポイント

Keep playing Playstation, Haywurst.

Here's my story of the 'esoteric' rules of baseball.

I was warming up at the start of an inning (8 pitches). The leadoff batter walked into the box while I was throwing. Is he trying to fuck with me? Is he trying to get a look at my pitches before his AB? I only know that what he did was fucking inexcusable. As he stood there looking at my pitch, I drilled him in the foot. The umpire was off chatting with someone, never even saw it. The batter starts yelling and pointing at me. Everybody kept cool, but he broke a rule, and I corrected him.

[–]Arizona Diamondbacksthis_is_poorly_done 24 ポイント25 ポイント

So rather than yell at him to get the fuck out of the box and call him out on his bullshit, or get your catcher to do something about it you threw at him? Maybe the dude thought you were done, maybe he was focused on his approach and lost track of stuff, maybe he was just an asshole. That's the point Dirk is making, you don't know and yet still felt justified in physically harming another person to protect your own ego. This is what I hated about pitchers, they felt they were judge and jury out on the field because they got to hold the little white ball. But does a batter ever get to huck his bat at the pitcher? No, the batter just has to sit there and take it, but the pitcher gets to dole out punishments according to whatever whim he feels justified in using rather than just playing the game. And before you come in and accuse me of not having played baseball at a high level I played college baseball and have umpired HS for a few years now and have seen all this shit. And no, I didn't downvote you either.

[–]Colorado RockiesFatMansRevenge -4 ポイント-3 ポイント

I was a catcher in division 1 college baseball, and the correct response is absolutely to plunk the guy. A batter that does that knows exactly what he's doing, you're not supposed to take the batters' box until the Ump gestures you towards it, or calls "play ball!" However, this is not a written rule as far as I can remember. That makes it an unwritten rule, and one that is so far from arbitrary that it really should be written if it isn't.

I'm interested though, what's the next reasonable step? Do you go tell your coach? Do you go tattle to the ump? Do you tell him to back out? What if he doesn't? The simple answer is you hit him in the back, and make sure he remembers that you're not allowed to do that, rule or no rule. I get that people are annoyed by the "unwritten rules" and their seemingly arbitrary origins, but there is a reason why they exist, and it always has to do with respecting the game, respecting your teammates, or respecting the opposition. The three tenets of good sportsmanship that seem to be slowly diminishing throughout the years, in favor of win at all costs.

[–]New York YankeesApoChunk 3 ポイント4 ポイント

The three tenets of good sportsmanship that seem to be slowly diminishing throughout the years, in favor of win at all costs.

"Winning is not a sometime thing; it's an all the time thing. You don't win once in a while; you don't do things right once in a while; you do them right all of the time. Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

There is no room for second place. There is only one place in my game, and that's first place.

Running a football team is no different than running any other kind of organization - an army, a political party or a business. The principles are the same. The object is to win - to beat the other guy. Maybe that sounds hard or cruel. I don't think it is.

It is a reality of life that men are competitive and the most competitive games draw the most competitive men. That's why they are there - to compete. The object is to win fairly, squarely, by the rules - but to win."

Thats Vince Lombardi. To me, you were wrong, why would you plunk a guy. But to each his own.

[–]Colorado RockiesFatMansRevenge 2 ポイント3 ポイント

It's in that last bit that Lombardi explains not just that he wants to win, but HOW he wants to win.

fairly, squarely, by the rules

Winning is not worth cheating, or using underhanded tactics that compromise a player's integrity. In the example mentioned by /u/slapadastic, the player stepping into the box was using an underhanded tactic to try to either make the pitcher uncomfortable, or to get a preview of his throwing motion/delivery. Whatever the reason, it needs to be made clear that actions like that are unacceptable.

Now, especially at the little league/junior/high school level, the proper response is definitely to tell him to back off. Honestly, that should be the first step in every scenario. However, when that doesn't work(and I've seen it not work), you have to hit the guy; the other options just aren't viable. Players at higher levels of play know the etiquette, and they know the consequences. If you're not willing to follow through on those consequences, then you're not allowed to complain when the opposing team takes advantage of that.

[–]Texas RangersAsDevilsRun 5 ポイント6 ポイント

Like you said, you tell him to back out. I've seen it done fairly often. I've never seen someone ignore the implication of what might happen, especially since higher-level players know what the punishment tends to be.

I've also seen guys skip that and just throw over the guy's head. That worked pretty well, too.

[–]Colorado RockiesFatMansRevenge 1 ポイント2 ポイント

You're right; you tell him to back off. However, at least at that level of play, and with that type of person, they don't just "back off." I've seen it happen, at it was almost always on me (as the catcher) to be the one that told him to get out of/away from the box, or he's going to get nailed. If they're in the box, they take a single step outside the box, and keep doing their thing. If they're a half step outside the box, they back off a couple inches. In high school, the kid could legitimately not know. In college/minor league play, the guy knows, he just doesn't care.

[–]Texas RangersAsDevilsRun 0 ポイント1 ポイント

That's where I've seen the throw over the head work.

In high school, I definitely wouldn't hit the guy. There are too many people that just aren't aware. At college, it's less defensible, which is why the guy threw over the batter's head.

The only other thing I've seen (because I never actually saw a pitcher hit a guy), was the catch hold out his glove arm like he was calling for an intentional walk, but at the guy who was standing there. That was more entertaining than effective.

This is actually an unwritten rule I'm iffy on. It serves a definite purpose. I wouldn't want a guy getting a close look at my pitches with no negative consequences. On the other hand, I've seen strategies aside from hitting the guy work, so it's kind of a last resort to me. On the last, unknown third hand, I've met a guy that told me, "They can stand as close as they want. They still ain't gonna hit it when it matters." His performance didn't really merit that arrogance, though.

[–]Los Angeles DodgersIveGotaGoldChain -1 ポイント0 ポイント

The fact that your post has so many downvotes goes to show that most of /r/baseball has never played the game.

[–]Arizona Diamondbacksthis_is_poorly_done 3 ポイント4 ポイント

That's actually the point Dirk is trying to make, people who play the game get so wrapped up in the game that players and coaches can't remove themselves from the game. It becomes circular logic that only stands up because people let it stand up. Yes the ass-hat who is standing in the box while the pitcher warms up is being a dick, but maybe the catcher should say something first instead of the automatic reaction being "let's hurl a projectile at someone's body", which is apparently the answer to everything in baseball.

Also the hypocrisy is very prevalent. Is Brian McCann going to yell at Big Papi "to fucking run" when he stands there and admires his home runs? No, but he feels he has that authority over Gomez, and he feels he has that authority over Fernandez. What makes Big Papi an exception? Oh because he's been there longer, yet shouldn't he be the one leading by example? He is leading by example, yet other players get punished for the exact same attitude. We just saw this the other day. David Price throws at Papi because Papi takes too long and shows up the pitcher every time, and yet now because a veteran like Papi says that's uncool everyone is getting on Price normally everyone else goes "that's just part of the game". The cognitive dissonance is amazing at times.

Let's look for an example at what happened between Cole Hamels and Bryce Harper. Cole Hamels felt justified in hurtling a potentially lethal projectile at Bryce Harper simply because Bryce Harper had the audacity to be on the cover of SI as a 16 year old. Yet Bryce is supposed to roll over and take it? Where's the respect there? There is none. Apparently Bryce Harper deserves to be thrown at by another pitcher for simply being Bryce Harper, that's straight up bullying. That's not hazing, there's no lesson in that. In what type of environment is it okay for an older employee to straight up assault a younger one for simply being younger? How come young players have to learn their place when veterans just get to do whatever they want? Too many baseball players have "get off my lawn" syndrome, and it's getting tiring watching 35 year old men think they're the gate keepers and guardians to a game that's our national pastime, a game that traces it's roots back to the pre-Civil War era.

Maybe you should consider that some of us have played the game, yet we can pull our heads out of our asses, think for ourselves, and look at the game in contexts other than from within the game, or how our old coaches look at the game. Maybe we come to a different decision as fans of the game than the people who never left, who are so indoctrinated by the game because they need the game to survive, because they're scared to move on from what they know, because they don't like change. I've played college ball and a lot of this stuff is petty and tiring, and changes from week to week depending on who's involved.

[–]Colorado RockiesFatMansRevenge 0 ポイント1 ポイント

The number of downvotes amuses me. The same people that are so vehemently opposed to the unwritten rules of baseball etiquette are also apparently willing to totally ignore the rules of Reddit etiquette.

[–]Boston Red SoxRICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS 4 ポイント5 ポイント

Hell, just shoot him to death.

[–]Toronto Blue Jayspurvimatrix 17 ポイント18 ポイント

That makes you an idiot.

[–]Boston Red SoxNotSoBean 10 ポイント11 ポイント

Good for you. It's always best to use violence to diffuse a non-violent situation, and the fact that you did it from 60ft away shows everyone how tough you are. Sure, maybe one of your hitters got beaned in retaliation, but you're not the one who has to deal with the consequences so who cares?

[–]Texas RangersAsDevilsRun 9 ポイント10 ポイント

You realize Hayhurst was almost certainly a significantly better pitcher at a higher level than you, right? It's really weird to tell him to keep playing Playstation.

I had the exact situation happen twice the first time I pitched in high school (to be fair, he was close, not in the batter's box). I just ignored it, because I hadn't pitched before; I didn't know the guy had committed a cardinal sin by being too close the batter's box while I was warming up. Guess what? Nothing fucking happened. It didn't mess with me because I didn't know it was supposed to mess with me.

I get into the dugout after the inning and the coach chewed me out, saying to "throw at the motherfucker" if he did it again. Sure enough, third inning comes around and the same guy does it again. What do I do? I yell at him to "back the fuck up." He backed up. I continued warming up. End of story (aside from the coach calling me a pussy, but he was literally the biggest fucking dirtbag I've met in my life. The fact that I upset him only convinced me I did the right thing. Stop telling me to hit random kids and go hit on the 16 year-old stat girls some more, you married, minor-league has-been prick). No apocalypse. No beaning. Just playing baseball.

[–]Colorado RockiesHugo_Hackenbush[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント

That's a pretty stupid thing to throw at someone for.

[–]Miami Marlinsgallez 1 ポイント2 ポイント

dude, it's just a game...

[–]Cincinnati RedsJV19 4 ポイント5 ポイント

So you hit a guy in the foot instead of asking him to move out of the way? Wow, you respect the game.

[–]Hanshin Tigers (Japan)LinearWay 1 ポイント2 ポイント

In times of turmoil, at least we know to turn to /u/slapadastic to keep the unwritten rules enforced.

[–]St. Louis Cardinalsscruffmagee 0 ポイント1 ポイント

you sound like Brandon McCarthy. Rip the writer, not the article)

[–]San Francisco Giantssayheykid24 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント

The leadoff batter walked into the box while I was throwing.

Who does that? You did right thing. From the amount of down votes you're getting you would think you hit him in the head.

I was given a sign to bean an opposing teams catcher once because he was smack talking our hitters when they were at the plate. He shut up after that.