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Monday, June 2, 2014

BREAKING: Woman Not Wanted at Gay Orgy! Must Credit HuffPo!

Posted by on Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Let's play let's pretend!

Two women are having lesbian sex in a hotel room. I stroll in—let's say their door was open—and I stand at the foot of the bed, quietly observing the action. The women realize I'm standing there and ask me to leave. I inform both women that, although I am an otherwise shy and reserved person, I am standing in their room at the foot of their bed watching them have sex because I am interested in both lesbian sex and the lesbian community. Very sincerely so. The women angrily insist that I leave. Their behavior makes me feel so uncomfortable and unwelcome that I do leave—but then I stand outside the door to their room loudly complaining to anyone who will listen about how rude these women were to me.

Was I the victim? Is this incident—the refusal of these women to let me watch them have sex—evidence that the lesbian community has a problem with exclusion? Is this incident damning evidence of lesbian misandry? Or am I a stupid, clueless, entitled jerk?

Would your answer change if we were talking about four lesbians having sex in a hotel room? Or eight? Or sixteen? Or more?

Eric Barry, writer, comedian, and creator of the "Full Disclosure" sex podcast, has written the dumbest thing I've ever read about sex at Huffington Post—and that's saying something. (I mean, there's some absolutely mindblowing competition for that honor.) I've met Barry, he's written some great stuff in the past, and I've been a guest on his podcast. But Barry attended the International Mr. Leather Contest in Chicago over Memorial Day Weekend and wasn't happy with what he thought he saw:

[The] amount of women I encountered at the event could more or less be counted on two hands, as compared to the thousands of men I saw. But the more time that I spent at the event, the more I had to question whether or not the ratio of men to women I saw was truly representative of those within the leather community, or whether or not there was some sort of institutionalized segregation of women.

You know why the ratio of men to women at IML wasn't representative of the leather community? Because IML is a gay leather/fetish event. Complaining that gay men made up the majority of attendees at your first IML—and insisting that this is evidence of the exclusionary, misogynist rot at the heart of the leather/fetish community—is like going to the Dinah Shore Weekend in Palm Springs and complaining about how few gay men you saw there. Or going to Bear Week in Provincetown and complaining that hairless twinks must have been kept away by the forces of "institutionalized segregation."

IML is a gay leather/fetish contest and convention. All are welcome to attend. Anyone can stroll into the host hotel (although security guards give a heads up to people who 1. look like they might not be kinksters and 2. might be distressed by what they're going to see in the lobby), anyone can go shopping in the Leather Market (where else can you get dolphin-dong dildos?), or buy a ticket and attend the open-to-all IML parties at various nightclubs (they're basically circuit parties and most IML attendees skip them and party at the hotel instead, which essentially becomes the world's biggest leather bar for four days). But, yes, most IML attendees are fags. Because IML is not "one of the biggest leather and fetish events in the world," it's one of the biggest gay leather and fetish events in the world. IML got its start in a gay leather bar and it continues to be a gay contest for a gay leather title. (Although Seattle—always ahead of the curve—sent a bisexual leatherman to compete for the title nearly 20 years ago.)

Women are, however, more than welcome to attend IML. There were women working the doors at IML this year, there were women selling merchandise in the Leather Mart, there were leatherdykes hanging out in the lobby, and there were scores of (sometimes very annoying) straight women at IML tittering in corners with their gay besties from work. But women were outnumbered at IML. And you know what? Just as women are outnumbered at the annual International Mr. Leather Contest, men are outnumbered at the annual Ms. International Leather Contest. Go figure.

Terry and I go to IML every year. We go so we can see old friends, Terry can swan around looking amazing in leather, and I can personally thank people who've been guest experts in "Savage Love" and on the "Savage Lovecast" over the years and line up guest experts for future columns and shows. (Thanks to Jonathan and Skeeter from Mr. S, Tynan from Twin Cities Leather, and Stephan from Oxballs!) We have cocktail parties in our suite and while our parties are mostly gay—just like IML itself—there are always women at our parties. Because women are a part of IML and they've always been a part of our IML.

But you know when Terry and I don't have women in our room? When we're fucking. Which brings us back to Barry's piece:

I was with my female friend at the time when we were invited to one such party on the 46th floor (the top floor) in a massive suite. Upon entering we found encompassed in near complete darkness, illuminated only by the glow of the city night's lights which the room overlooked. It was also exceptionally humid—I'd estimate there were about 150 bodies crammed into the suite, doing pretty much everything your imagination will let you. But despite the relative anonymity that darkness afforded, it only took five minutes before my friend was asked to leave.

"You can't be here. You're a woman," she was told.

My friend is a naturally shy and reserved person who's recently expressed an interest in the kink and BDSM community. While IML seemed like an opportune time to explore these interests, she was nervous about doing so—intimidation, internal struggle and fear of rejection are frequent barriers when it comes to people openly exploring their own sexuality.

I stepped in, approaching the man who was kicking her out. It was unclear whether this man was the actual tenant of the suite or one of the hundred-plus strangers who had entered into the room and felt threatened by the presence of a woman.

"She's not causing any trouble. She's with me," I said.

"This is a party for men. Women aren't allowed," he retorted.

Here's a coincidence for you: the party Barry's friend was asked to leave was directly across the hall from our suite. This is a picture of Terry and a friend waiting for the elevator—which is how you spend most of your time at IML—and look! We're on Level 46, bitches, top floor, top drawer:

meanwhileonfortysix.JPG

That party on 46 (and everyone at it) was going down while we were having a fully-clothed cocktail party in our room across the hall—a cocktail party with several women in attendance—and if Barry's friend had come to our party I would've made her drink and introduced her to a few people. But I don't care how curious Barry's friend is about gay sex or BDSM or kink or leather. We wouldn't want a women in our hotel room watching us have sex. And our refusal to allow Barry's friend to stay after the party and watch us have sex isn't proof that we hate women or are "threatened" by them. Each of us gets to decide who we want in our room when we're having sex—whether we're having sex with one person or 149 people.

Which brings me to the gist/j'accuse of Barry's piece: A guy takes a female friend to a gay orgy—because a gay orgy is absolutely the best place for a "shy and reserved" woman to begin exploring her sexuality—and she was asked to leave and this, in addition to how few women Barry spotted in the Leather Market earlier that day, is proof that "misogyny [is] exemplified within the gay leather community."

Puh-leeze.

For the record: I don't go to parties like the one Barry dragged his shy and reserved friend to. They're not my scene. But a gay orgy is the last place on earth I would take someone—male or female—who was "naturally shy and reserved." And I have to call bullshit on Barry. (Whom I've met! And liked!) He says his friend is curious about leather and BDSM and that's why she wanted to attend the orgy on the 46th floor. I promise you that there was no BDSM going on in the suite across the hall from us. People don't have BDSM sex in rooms packed with 150 guys. All Barry's lady friend was going to see in that suite was a Hieronymus-Bosch-esque tableaux of guys sucking each other's cocks and jacking each other off. No one would be getting expertly flogged or elaborately mummified or doing an e-stim demo in a crowd like that. All you see at those kind of parties at IML—all you see at the orgies at IML—are vanilla types in tennis shoes having vanilla sex wearing the harnesses they bought earlier that day at the Leather Market.

My rant is now longer than the piece I'm ranting about. Just two more quick points and then I'll shut up: Barry doesn't just hold up the "men only" rule at that gay orgy as proof that the gay leather scene, as exemplified by IML, is misogynistic. It's also proof that the gay leather scene, according to Barry, is deeply transphobic as well.

Barry? I'd like you to meet Tyler McCormick, Mr. International Leather 2010. Tyler just so happens to be... a trans man:

Are there transphobes in the gay leather/fetish community? Of course there are, just as there are homophobes in the straight leather/fetish community. But the the gay leather/fetish community is less transphobic than the wider culture—wake me when a trans woman wins the Miss American pageant—just as the straight leather/fetish community is less homophobic than the wider culture.

Final point: I don't know how Barry identifies. But I've been reading him for a while and he seems to date women exclusively. So I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Barry is a straight guy. Which would make his IML piece another example of a purported LGBT ally barging into a queer space (a queer space he knows nothing about), encountering the limits of his straight privilege in that queer space ("What do you mean I can't bring a woman to this gay orgy?!?"), and then spending the rest of the night self-righteously lecturing queer people about what bad queers we are.

It tells us more about him than it does about us.

 

Comments (64) RSS

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fletc3her 1
I have yet to see a gay male pornographic film to which the Bechdel test can even be applied, let alone expect to pass. And then you pop over to the lesbian side of the video site and it's like they never talk about men at all!
Posted by fletc3her on June 2, 2014 at 4:04 PM · Report this
2
This is nothing to do with equality. I doubt very much that lesbians at a lesbian orgy (are there such things? I'm gay, so I'm merely academically curious) would allow a straight guy to watch and/or participate, but I can't speak for them.
Posted by JJinAus on June 2, 2014 at 4:23 PM · Report this
3
Dan and Terry, "not doing the gay thing right"? That I'd like to see. Oh, crap, I'm a straight female so I can't see it. Bummer.
Posted by originalcinner on June 2, 2014 at 4:34 PM · Report this
4
I call BS on Dan and Terry not having women in the room while they're having sex. Why, I was walking past their hotel room one night while they were going at it and I distinctly heard them calling out for Anna Lingus, Ima Cumming, and Pearl Necklace.
Posted by bobbyjoe on June 2, 2014 at 4:49 PM · Report this
Ophian 5
Too bad Barry's friend listened to Barry. I wouldn't go so far as to say he was setting up a story [there's bound to be some column inches in crashing a gay orgy with a newbie chick], but I don't think he was really focused on picking a venue that would turn out positively for his friend's shy, but earnest, first toe in the water.

I hope she isn't dissuaded, and has better luck next time.

Posted by Ophian on June 2, 2014 at 4:51 PM · Report this
6
Wait, I have to have sex in front of or with women now to not be misogynistic? Can't I just, say, respect them and treat them as equals?
Posted by DJSauvage on June 2, 2014 at 4:53 PM · Report this
brandon 7
Sounds like a straight guy trying to make himself sound more cutting edge and progressive than he actually is by talking about something he knows nothing about, probably in an effort to get laid.

Straight people is so dumb sometimes.
Posted by brandon on June 2, 2014 at 5:07 PM · Report this
8
Not to mention, none of the lesbians I've talked to will let me have sex with them. And I'm a totally nice guy, too! Why are lesbians ALL such bitches?
Posted by Pope Buck I on June 2, 2014 at 5:10 PM · Report this
MacCrocodile 9
My sex partners (and observers) have been overwhelmingly male. I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to women everywhere for this obvious misogyny. I am going to have to have sex with and in front of a lot of women to make this right. I would like to also take this opportunity to preemptively apologize for my ineptitude with women to the women who help me make this right.
Posted by MacCrocodile http://maccrocodile.com/ on June 2, 2014 at 5:12 PM · Report this
Sabotage 10
I'm going to go fuck my husband on the View so I'm not a misogynist.
Posted by Sabotage on June 2, 2014 at 5:39 PM · Report this
11
Barry should have taken the newbie lady over to Shibaricon, the HUGE STRAIGHT BDSM (rope, specifically) convention that was also in Chicago that exact same weekend.
Posted by devianttouch on June 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM · Report this
12
Mr O - So you'd rather think him a cretin than a fiend?

The operative phrase seems to be "when we were invited". Who invited "them" and what was that person's connection to the all-male orgy? Was he alone when he was invited, whether or not the invitation was expanded to include his friend? Was his friend present and clearly presenting as female when the invitation was extended? My guess would be that at best there was a misunderstanding and he didn't realize that the person who invited him and said to bring his friend along thought his friend with a non-gendered name to be male.

The piece itself sounds like a cross between classic straightsplaining and post-gay Utopianism in which we just can't have segregated things any more.
Posted by vennominon on June 2, 2014 at 6:02 PM · Report this
13
Oh, and I forgot my young friend, just coming out, who's been getting grief from women about discriminating against them. I think that may deserve a Ricci Award.
Posted by vennominon on June 2, 2014 at 6:05 PM · Report this
ragu 14
So a bunch of privileged white dudes want to keep their "penises only" boys club going in a semi-public space, a woman is insulted and excluded in a very misogynistic way, which prompts some other white guy writes a whiny but basically innocuous blog piece about it, and that's the battle that digs deep into Dan's soul and makes him pick up his cudgel to defend his male privilege with a big pouty face? Oooookay.
Posted by ragu on June 2, 2014 at 6:06 PM · Report this
15
Oh, Ragu. Someone unjustly accuses all the gay men at IML of sexism, misogyny, and transphobia and I took that seriously - because I take sexism, misogyny and transphobia seriously. Worthy of addressing even. You don't take those issues seriously, it seems, otherwise you wouldn't object to my addressing the writer's point/charges/head-up-assedness.

Have a nice day.
Posted by Dan Savage on June 2, 2014 at 6:15 PM · Report this
16
Oh, and IML is a "bunch of privileged white dudes," says Ragu.

Ragu? Meet Ramien Pierre, Mr. International Leather 2014:

http://chicago.gopride.com/news/article.…

The glare of his white privilege is nearly blinding, isn't it?
Posted by Dan Savage on June 2, 2014 at 6:33 PM · Report this
17
Sometimes I wish I was gay... a 150 person orgy sounds like fun, and I'll bet it was pretty easy to set up. I can't imagine finding 75 straight women that would meet up with 75 straight dudes for that kind of fun.
Posted by Or at least a little bi... on June 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM · Report this
18
Ragu,

How the fuck is a private suite a semi-public space? How is it misogynistic to politely explain to a woman that she has happened upon a male-only sex party to which she was clearly not invited? Private sex parties, even ones with lots of people, are not semi-public.
Posted by mshawn on June 2, 2014 at 6:41 PM · Report this
19
Um, isn't Ragu a satirical spoof of Raku? Kudos.
Posted by Genius on June 2, 2014 at 6:46 PM · Report this
Sandiai 20
lol, good job, "Ragu."
Posted by Sandiai on June 2, 2014 at 6:55 PM · Report this
21
Worth pointing out here that this guy is also not helping the feminist cause either by calling out something as misogynist that is clearly nothing of the sort. Thanks, fella, for making it even HARDER to get taken seriously when there actually IS misogyny going on. Ten bucks says his article is already the toast of dozens of MRA forums illustrating some bullshit point about bitches be crazy. Ugh.
Posted by Zoe A on June 2, 2014 at 6:59 PM · Report this
22
Ah! Ragu! Raku! I felz for it!

Ha ha! I'm a dolt. xxxooo
Posted by Dan Savage on June 2, 2014 at 7:01 PM · Report this
23
So has Dan not figured out that ragu is a parody of raku yet? Or is he proceeding as if it's real just to stay on the right side of Poe's Law?
Posted by chi_type on June 2, 2014 at 7:07 PM · Report this
24
Haha. Questioned answered. It is really tough to tell sometimes...
Posted by chi_type on June 2, 2014 at 7:09 PM · Report this
25
I agree that this guys is an idiot and the shy friend he dragged up there was probably relieved to get the fuck out but...
" Each of us gets to decide who we want in our room when we're having sex—whether we're having sex with one person or 149 people. "
Isn't it kinda the nature of an orgy that you DON'T get that much say in who joins in? If there's someone who is a total turn-off to you do you get to vote him out? And did they poll the crowd for bisexuals who might've been into a woman joining in?
I'm mostly joking but I have no idea of orgy etiquette so it's a somewhat genuine question.
Posted by chi_type on June 2, 2014 at 7:15 PM · Report this
26
Can gay guys even really be misogynistic? I always kind of thought of misogyny as the particular resentment straight guys feel toward women based on women's ability to withhold sex from them. Most of the women haters here on Slog, you know who you are, seem to be motivated by that.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on June 2, 2014 at 7:15 PM · Report this
27
When I went to college the frats were exclusively for men, how misogynistic... Also in our own backyard O'dea High School has banned women, truly, sexism is alive and well...
Posted by Everyoneissosexist on June 2, 2014 at 7:26 PM · Report this
Cat in fez 28
@49 Misogyny takes many forms -- all the word means is hate of women. I've met a very misogynistic gay guy (I hope he grew out of it, he was young) and he was glacially cold in his detestation of women. If he could have pressed a button and had us all keel over dead, I kinda think he would have. Because he had no use for us at all.

I'd guess there are probably a few gay misogynists who are just trying to get Manly Points by slagging off women (just like there are probably some girls who hang out with straight bros who like to score One of the Boys points with homophobic jokes), but I haven't met any.

I don't think the guy who wrote the Huffpo article has met either type, at least not in the course of researching this piece. What an asswipe.
Posted by Cat in fez on June 2, 2014 at 7:28 PM · Report this
Ophian 29
Mr. ven @12, I suppose that there may have been some honest misunderstanding about what was going on, and who was invited or not, but--for anyone of any reflection--that should have prompted an article about his oops [in whatever contextualization he might choose] rather than about IML's institutional misogyny. So, a cretin, a fiend or a doofus, take your pick I suppose.
Posted by Ophian on June 2, 2014 at 7:50 PM · Report this
30
As someone who attends BearPride and IML almost every Memorial Day, I agree with everything Dan has said here.

Although IML welcomes voyeurs to enjoy the multitude of exhibitionists, IML is not a gay zoo for straight men or women to visit for their misguided amusement, especially when expressed through alternating giggles and gasps like silly, rude and ignorant adolescents and religious prudes.

Second, if you come to a play party, you came to play, whatever role you choose. Play parties really aren't for casual observers.

If you want to watch without being involved, the IML sells some of the best BDSM and leather porn found anywhere for you to watch in the safe and completely uninvolved space of your own hotel room.

If you want to observe BDSM demonstrations, several sessions are held by vendors in the IML market; they welcome you to observe, to learn and, if you're lucky, to participate.

If you want to experience a fetish community for the first time, seek out a friend or sponsor who is a member of the community to help introduce, interpret and acclimate you. If you don't know anyone who will serve as your "buddy" at IML, perhaps, you shouldn't attend until you better understand the community. Perhaps, you need to start by making that friend or group of friends back home or online before you make the jump into the deep end by attending IML or a play party.
Posted by Leather Bear on June 2, 2014 at 7:52 PM · Report this
31
Wait, so women can't be gay now? Did we just genderize "gay" so that it's only men?

I mean, not like that isn't how the world acts already, though. Lesbians are about as invisible as straight women, so big surprise if Dan the Gay Man is going to go stomp all over gay women the way straight men do to, you know, everyone else.
Posted by InvisibleGayWoman on June 2, 2014 at 7:59 PM · Report this
32
Dan, is it possible that like a typical, scared little straight puppy in any situation where gay men are the majority that Barry wanted to go to the play party but brought his female friend as his "safety word" for a quick exit just in case he couldn't handle the reality of the situation?

Poor girl.
Posted by The trouble with being Barry's Beard on June 2, 2014 at 8:02 PM · Report this
sirkowski 33
If it wasn't for the login, this was straight up genuine Raku.
Posted by sirkowski http://www.missdynamite.com on June 2, 2014 at 8:06 PM · Report this
34
@31: Wow, you're an idiot. Women "genderized" gay in the 1970s when they insisted that gay = male and insisted on "gay and lesbian community" in place of "gay community."

Read some history, then blog indignantly. Not the other way around.
Posted by Dan Savage on June 2, 2014 at 8:08 PM · Report this
35
@33: Are Ragu and Raku... the same person?
Posted by Dan Savage on June 2, 2014 at 8:09 PM · Report this
36
Mr O - "Why have you to fight when I could have the cretin or the fiend?" is a line from The Lion in Winter. They don't run to a doofus, alas.

I was just coming up with the best case I could deem plausible for the writer. He does manifest fairly classic post-gay thinking typical of the straight man who kinda sorta thinks the world would be a better place if nobody were an exclusive same-sexer, and so that's what his grasp of post-gay leads him to project, that there is no more icky exclusive homosexuality and no segregated-by-orientation spaces.
Posted by vennominon on June 2, 2014 at 8:11 PM · Report this
37
This whole kerfuffle has been an education for me. I never heard of IML or Dinah Shore weekend before this post. After reading Dan Savage for 5 years, I'm still learning.
Posted by Pablo Picasso on June 2, 2014 at 8:17 PM · Report this
38
More photos of Terry at IML, pleeeeease.
Posted by Leather Bear on June 2, 2014 at 8:40 PM · Report this
debug 39
@34 Thanks for the verification that gay = homosexual man. Seems I can't use the word gay lately in an online conversation without some putz chiming in that gay means homosexual women as well and I should be more clear, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Only thing worse that a word nazi is a stupid word nazi.
Posted by debug on June 2, 2014 at 8:57 PM · Report this
40
Everything in your write is awesome and I completely agree except for the part that you write "All you see at those kind of parties at IML—all you see at the orgies at IML—are vanilla types in tennis shoes having vanilla sex wearing the harnesses they bought earlier that day at the Leather Market."
After already stating you do not attend these orgies I am not surprised you said that.
The play parties I attend are amazing hard core fun and intense..
Posted by David-sf on June 2, 2014 at 9:09 PM · Report this
41
I've gone to IML every year since 2002 and I have YET to be invited to a men-only orgy.

HELP HELP, I'M BEING OPPRESSED!

Shit, I spend more time hanging out in the smoking area out front catching up with friends I only get to see once a year... or hanging out with the bootblacks because bootblacks are awesome.
Posted by Izzy_Bootblack on June 2, 2014 at 9:15 PM · Report this
42
Ugh.. THANK you... Barry's bratty entitlement as a straight guy is abhorrent. Thinking he and his girlfriend can just waltz into any private sex party to watch - like they're at the science fair - and when asked to leave, fly into the faux rage of "WHAT ABOUT GENDER QUEER PEOPLE?!?!" makes me wish the gay movement was still underground.

And he has the fucking gaul to call himself a "sex-positive, GBLT ally."

Sorry... Barry... you're not an ally. You like your gays like you like the fish in a tank. They're pretty to watch and funny to laugh at. But no... you are not an ally if you come to one of our events with the OBVIOUS intention of calling us "woman haters" because we wouldn't let your girlfriend watch us fuck.
Posted by ScudGobang on June 2, 2014 at 9:25 PM · Report this
long-time reader 43
Well, I learned something today.

Hadn't known that Dinah Shore is a lesbian icon. Actually, I hadn't really known who she was at all. I am a friend of a friend of Dorothy, though.
Posted by long-time reader on June 2, 2014 at 10:11 PM · Report this
mikethehammer 44
@35,

Ragu & Raku aren't the same person. Most of Ragu's work is easily recognized as a satirical parody of Raku. It's actually worth checking out Ragu's profile and reading through their comments. It's really well done and pretty freaking funny.
Posted by mikethehammer on June 2, 2014 at 10:11 PM · Report this
mikethehammer 45
Not even the first time Dan got trolled by ragu. I thought this one was kinda funny, as Dan's post/headline was just a Hitler laden Godwin exploit that seemingly obviously shouldn't be taken seriously. But such is raku's reputation that she still riled some feathers.

http://www.thestranger.com/slog/archives…
Posted by mikethehammer on June 2, 2014 at 10:26 PM · Report this
46
Okay, I get that some straight women fantasize about gay sex in much the same manner as some straight men obsess about lesbians.

But, seriously, ladies, the line has to be drawn somewhere, and the men's play party door seems more than reasonable.

Frankly, it's just too creepy and weird for you to be there or to want to be there.

We love you, but we have to have some boundaries that are respected.

Gay men are way more tolerant of straight women in their spaces or at their events than lesbians ever would be of straight men (men, period) at their spaces and events.

Lesbians wouldn't let a straight man near the covered dish club meeting, much less their BDSM event.

Hell, even with all of my lesbian family and friends, I've never even heard of an annual lesbian event with group play parties (orgies). Is there such a thing? No, stop, don't tell me; I don't want or need to know that about my lesbian sisters.
Posted by There are no "ladies" leaving a gay play party on June 2, 2014 at 10:42 PM · Report this
47
Warning: Rant Ahead.

Why can’t there be just one place where GAY men can go to be away from women? Why do women have to insert themselves into every corner where GAY men go? NEWSFLASH: Ladies, gay men are GAAAAYYY. They don’t want your tities or vaginias. Got it? They don’t WAAAAAAAAANNNNNTTTT YOU!

Last weekend at Bearracuda (the Seattle Eagle event where larger “bear” type men strip down to their underwear to enjoy each other’s company) I counted at least FOUR (4) fucking women. Who the hell is so goddam stupid that they drag in their gal-pals to ruin an event like Bearracuda? Yes it is illegal to bar women from the premises. They DOES NOT mean you girlies were welcome there. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing KILLS the GAY erotic energy in a room faster than a fag-hag screeching at the top of her lungs for attention. And yet, there she was, with her piercing cackle and everything was so GODDAM FUCKING FUNNY!

I loathe women in the Eagle. It’s a gay bar - do you get that? There isn’t another Eagle for 1000 fucking miles and you idiots have to drag your snatch to the Eagle to scream her head off and be the loudest bitch in the room. There are literally thousands of bars in Seattle that cater to women, but that’s not enough. No - you have to go to the Eagle, too. {insert C-word here}

I would not dream of going to a Lesbian bar. Ever. Not because I don’t think I would be let in, because I don’t want to be the asshole who so ignorantly fouls an all-lesbian space with my male energy. To this day I have never been to the Wild Rose or any other lesbian space because I’M NOT A LESBIAN! But that sort of consideration is WAY beyond you ladies (you don’t give a fuck, do you?).

Go to the Cuff (you ruined it a long time ago). Go to Pony - with their gay porn on the walls and the nearly naked bio-hazard tattoo boy dancing on the bar if you have to (after all, what better place to find early twenty-something girls with ponytails more than Pony?). Even go to Diesel if you absolutely, positively have to brush your filthy pillows against a bunch of bears, but stay out of the fucking Eagle!
More...
Posted by montex on June 2, 2014 at 10:50 PM · Report this
48
Does IML still need press this point? Why are they still giving out press passes to gawkers?
Posted by Duchess of Milton on June 2, 2014 at 11:12 PM · Report this
collectivism_sucks 49
@47
I totally agree. I'm not into a lot of the gay bar scene but even I've seen that there is nowhere where a guy can go and just be with the guys. Maybe there should be a members only club or something to bar women. Nothing against women, but if they can have lesbian clubs galore, why can't we have just one club of our own?
Posted by collectivism_sucks on June 2, 2014 at 11:17 PM · Report this
collectivism_sucks 50
@47
Actually, there was this one gay bar in NYC that NEVER had women in it...it was a gay sports bar. No shows, no loud music, just us regular guys who like sports and are also gay/bi. Gay and a sports bar...what incentive do women have to go there?

Why couldn't there be a gay sports bar in Seattle? Add that to the list of why this city sucks.
Posted by collectivism_sucks on June 2, 2014 at 11:20 PM · Report this
collectivism_sucks 51
Dan is full of it! Women are invited to gay orgies all the time...ever see any of the "Bi-Maxx" videos? *wink*

But in all honesty, this is indeed the dumbest thing I've read in awhile. Why can't women get that sometimes gay men want to be gay men and the "fag hags" or "fruit flies" or whatever you want to call them aren't always welcome?

I can't stand the way some of these women are towards us...like we're cute fucking puppies or something who exist just so they have someone "fun" to hangout with.
Posted by collectivism_sucks on June 2, 2014 at 11:24 PM · Report this
52
Well, we didn't hear from the woman who got dragged to that party by the guy who wrote the article, but I would bet that if anyone asked her, she was probably feeling REALLY uncomfortable and was probably GLAD that they got "kicked" out.

I've been to my fair share of play parties (women only and mixed) and I know that *I* would feel uncomfortable at a men's play party even if I had been invited (which I can't imagine why I would be invited...)

Barry, it wasn't a wine and cheese party, it was an orgy. Did *YOU* really even want to be there? Or did you really just show up to prove a point?
Posted by Izzy_Bootblack on June 2, 2014 at 11:34 PM · Report this
53
@49, 50 & 51

I think a lot of women just have difficulty believing that every man, regardless of sexual orientation, does not desire her 100% presence in all things, all the time. It really doesn't matter how many times I use all-caps to clarify how serious I am, there will always be women who aggressively want to ruin the mood gay men have for each other as a way to punish them for being gay.

We still have two gay bath houses we can go to and be away from the feminist hordes, although we must risk STD's in order to enjoy that privilege (which is exactly what women want us to have to deal with). Yea yeah, that masoginsitic (intentionally misspelled). Whatever.
Posted by montex on June 2, 2014 at 11:35 PM · Report this
54
@Collectivism_sucks, that's a lot of anger your carrying around. Ya' might want to put it down at some point.
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on June 2, 2014 at 11:41 PM · Report this
55
Utopian dreams and repressed anger don't really work out well. Just saying.
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on June 2, 2014 at 11:42 PM · Report this
56
As I walked around the vender mart and the drive(smoking area). I saw women actively participating in the activities of IML. A Mistress even flogged her sub in the hotel lobby. This guy took a female to a private all me event in a private room. This was not an official IML event and not a pan sexual event. I have no problem playing in a pan sexual space and see were these events can bring the leather community together. However I also have noticed that the gay male leather scene is slowly disappearing from our local areas. Having a woman at all male play party just to watch can be uncomfortable for some and hot for others. If she was there because she identified as male and not to just gauwk that would have been a different matter. Yes IML is predomnantly male but women are not excluded from the official events in fact I was surprised to see as many women there as I did.
Posted by Bearmanii Daddy Tim on June 3, 2014 at 12:41 AM · Report this
57
Not ALL straight men!
Posted by madcap on June 3, 2014 at 1:10 AM · Report this
58
@53, Feminist Hordes.. That sounds scary. And they force you boys into STD infected bathhouses? Rude rude..
And Dan, seeing you're
In voice here today, giving @31 an earful( calling her an idiot? Cause she's not up to date with 70s Feminism?), perhaps you could jump in here.. @53.. Point out his delusional mind/ as if ALL women
Desire 100% attention.
Also, women who have sex with women still do call themselves gay/ guess they missed the directive coming thru the pipeline from those earlier Feminist Hordes..
Posted by LavaGirl on June 3, 2014 at 1:41 AM · Report this
59
Guys you don't have to fuck in front of to make me feel in included, just make me a Margarita and we're good.
Posted by msanonymous on June 3, 2014 at 1:57 AM · Report this
60
I am a lesbian who has been to IML and I think it is ridiculous for a female to expect entry into private sex parties there--or anywhere. I stuck to public spaces and supported vendors by spending money, and worked against the (sadly accurate) stereotype of lesbians being rotten tippers by treating bartenders and other service workers appropriately.
Posted by InwoodMary on June 3, 2014 at 2:25 AM · Report this
61
And one more rant before I go to bed. Don't call gay guys misogynists. That is demonstrably false. Gay men love women, their icons are almost exclusively women, they often have more women friends than men. HOWEVER. That doesn't mean we want them or encourage them to watch us fuck.

There is some anti-male bullshit going on here. Some weird lefty feminist agenda that hates all men.
Posted by JJinAus on June 3, 2014 at 3:05 AM · Report this
62
@61 .. So these weird lefty feminists who hate all men, they come in hordes too?
Posted by LavaGirl on June 3, 2014 at 3:26 AM · Report this
63
Again @61, calling some women fag- hags, sure sounds like some of you gay guys don't like some women/ and again Dan- you make no comment about these comments??
Posted by LavaGirl on June 3, 2014 at 3:33 AM · Report this
64
@53, if you're going to bathhouses to get away from "feminist hordes," you're probably doing in wrong.
Posted by Duchess of Milton on June 3, 2014 at 3:45 AM · Report this

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