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[–]Monkeylabs 8 ポイント9 ポイント

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Actually, Jews are a race. You just didn't have to be of 'that race' to follow the religion. When I visited the Auschwitz concentration camp, the first thing the tour guide told the group was, you have to understand that the Jews were as a race, not a religion.

[–]Greggor88 13 ポイント14 ポイント

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Actually, Jews are not a race — and many Jews would take serious offense to you claiming otherwise. Judaism is a religion of many races, ethnic groups, and cultures. None of them is considered "more Jewish" than another. Jews do not all share common ancestry. If your argument was correct, then you would have to explain which of the two entirely unrelated Jewish groups (Ashkenazi or Sephardic) is the true "Jew".

I used to be a Jew. Now I'm not. Please explain to me how I changed my race.

[–]Monkeylabs -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

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Ok... Say you're an unfortunate Jew in WWII. Do you think you belong to the type of people who can simply change their religion? Or race? By saying that you no longer believe in Judaism will save your arse from getting thrown into the concentration camp?

[–]Greggor88 9 ポイント10 ポイント

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The Nazis believed that you could determine a person's "Jewish ancestry" by making various measurements of their facial features, skin, hair, and eye color with instruments such as these, these, these, and these. Obviously, using morphological factors to determine ancestry is demonstrably unscientific. Are you arguing that the Nazi movement's beliefs were based on fact? I don't think you want to take that position...

[–][deleted] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

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Ah, the ol' reductio ad Hitlerum. What a bullshit line of arguing. You are saying that argument X (Jews are a race) is false because Nazis believed this, they tried to prove argument X with unscientific methods, and therefore if you believe argument X, then you are agreeing that Nazi unscientific methods are factual and accurate? Hoooly shit is that a ridiculous stretch.

[–]Greggor88 6 ポイント7 ポイント

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Except for the fact that this argument makes perfect sense in a discussion about Jews and Nazis. It takes the form of Reductio ad Absurdum in that I demonstrate that the views held by OP are similarly untenable by pointing out the historical significance of his position. I have not assaulted his character via Ad Hominem, which is required in the so-called "Reductio ad Hitlerum"; I have merely pointed out the fallacy in arguing that because the Nazis assumed Jews were a race, that Jews must in fact be a race.

And I don't even need that argument to make my point. In most parts of the German occupation of foreign nations (and in their home country), the Nazis used membership lists of synagogues and absence of baptism certificates to prove Judaism, not any sort of common genetic ancestry. The morphological methods emerged in Eastern Europe, but were not significantly used.

If you have a single leg to stand on besides your own childish incredulity, please provide it.

[–]Aarondhp24[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

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You were a follower of the Jewish faith, not a jew.

[–]WordWarrior81 3 ポイント4 ポイント

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Jews are a "race" like black people are a "race". There is no such thing. Nazi Germany believed that the Jews were a race, while it's much more complicated than that. Similarly with Apartheid in South Africa classifying Blacks, Whites, Asians, etc. Take a look at your genetic history and I'm pretty sure you'll find all kinds of interesting traits from a variety of different groups. The best you can do is to go with whatever you associate yourself with (for example, as far as I know, we view President Obama as "black" for this reason). More often than not, racial divides only serve as an excuse to further hate and oppression. Technically, the only hominid race is the human race. The human race itself has too little genetic diversity to be considered as consisting of separate races.

[–]Aarondhp24[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

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Are you arguing that race is a made up term?

Put the semantics away and get on the same page as everyone else. We don't want to here your community college spin on the literal meaning of the word "race".

They are of a specific genetic line, like Italians, Spaniards, Greeks, or Indians. Possibly one of the oldest and purest (no aryan jokes please).

[–]WordWarrior81 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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Race as a lot of people use it is a non-scientific term. At some point in history everybody's ancestors took a page from another book (if you know what I mean). And even if they didn't, genetic diversity is too insignificant to justify classifying different people of different races. Perhaps what you are thinking about is ethnic diversity. Some groups of people self-identify as different ethnic groups because of shared features such as similar appearance, culture, religion, etc.

[–]z0ltanz0ltan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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In fact, if you follow modern science, it is an obsolete term. Most ethnologists would never use an archaic, unscientific term like 'race'. There is just no clear definition of it any more.

[–]ThePhenix 3 ポイント4 ポイント

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I don't believe that Jews are a race, just like Muslims and Christians are not a race. Can you tell me the features of a Jewish race? Why is there no 'Jewish' box in ethnicity on forms, but there is in religion?

[–]Aarondhp24[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント

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Is there an italian box? How about a greek box? They are in fact different races and the only reason you have "boxes" on your employment forms is for census purposes.

What you believe is irrelevant. Hebrews, Isrealites, or Jews have a common ancestry, and genetic makeup.

[–]ThePhenix 1 ポイント2 ポイント

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Is there an italian box? How about a greek box? They are in fact different races and the only reason you have "boxes" on your employment forms is for census purposes.

Actually yes, there is, in nationality.

But for ethnicity, all these are Caucasian/ethnic whites.

Israelites have only been in that area for the last 70 or so years too.

[–]Aarondhp24[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント

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Israelites have only been in that area for the last 70 or so years too.

Are you suggesting that starting in the 1940's, just before Hitler began persecuting the Jews, the predominant ethnicity of the entire Jewish line changed from something else to Caucasian? That is really what you're saying.

Israelites have only been in that area (caucasian/ ethnic whites) for the past 70 years? (Starting in 1940)

Mkay. That makes total sense. I mean there are obviously tons of studies on this aren't there? I mean there was a documented ethnic shift just prior to the Holocaust wasn't there. Goodness how silly of me.

[–]z0ltanz0ltan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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Yes, you are quite silly and obviously highly misinformed, son.

[–]Aarondhp24[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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Tends to be the case when people make unfounded claims and can't back them up. Oh well.

[–]z0ltanz0ltan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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I suppose you are referring to yourself? Because any other interpretation of your comment is highly implausible.

[–]Goodguy1066 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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We're an ethno-religious nation.

[–]z0ltanz0ltan 0 ポイント1 ポイント

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Jews stopped being a race millenia ago. It's an ethno-religious concept now. The irony is that in all probability, the Palestinians are the descendants of the original Hebrews, and they find their land usurped by the European and Arab/Moorish progeny of proselytes claiming to be the original Hebrews!