I am so confused and I don't want to go back downstairs. (Possibly NSFW) (self.offmychest)
{offmychest}
165 ups - 48 downs = 117 votes
(I'm on mobile so sorry for any typos)
Okay, here goes. Scene: my friend's 21st birthday party at a cottage in the mountains. Her friends are showing up throughout the night. Me and my group of friends have been drinking since we got there.
Fast forward to around 3:30 am. This guy starts hitting on me. Hard. Now, I'm not used to being the centre of attention, so this was welcome for a bit. It got to a point where I had drank WAY too much and maybe smoked some weed, but we started moving down to the room where my bed was for the night.
Here's where it gets typical. He wants to have sex. Okay, fair enough. Hooking up at a party is normal.
Not for me. I'm a virgin. Or, I guess, was.
He kept pushing the issue, saying it would help me relax and we would be safe. When I showed the slightest sign of doubt, he threw the "I'm more sober so I think I'm more right." shit at me. I tried to say no, but I was just too tired, so I agreed. He went ahead and had sex with me, and I basically acted as a blowup doll he thrusted for 45 minutes.
It wasn't good, and I consented so I don't think this would class as sexual assault or worse. He's in the bed I was sleeping in for a bit and I just do not want to head back down there. I also don't want him thinking we're a thing now because we hooked up and I wasn't feeling it.
What do I do?
122 comments submitted at 12:31:29 on May 31, 2014 by TossOffACliff
This is a shitty situation. Go downstairs and enjoy the rest of the party. If he tries to say we are a thing you need to firmly tell him you two are not together. If enviorment get too awkward to be in just thank your friend for inviting you and leave. If they are truly your friend I'm sure they can understand your want/need to leave.
Good luck with this bad situation. I hope it gets better
No.. if they are truly her friend then they will kick that moron out of the party..
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How is that whiteknighting?
I've been to several friends houses a lot of times for parties and every single time someone tried that shit they got thrown out.
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No.
Sexual coercion and what the guy in the OP did among other things.
Username does not apply.
You were coerced into having sex when you were drunk by someone who wasn't?
It's pretty much this although we can't be sure he wasn't intoxicated too.
What's frightening about so many responses is they're telling OP she has to live with it because she was drunk. If you follow that thought through, it's telling women that drinking socially with men grants them automatic consent. All a guy has to do is keep pushing the girl until she relents. If that were the case, what rational woman would ever go to parties without a chaperone?
In my life, which included being in a sorority in one of the most notoriously party oriented universities in the US, there were very, very few guys that would do what this guy did. The guys that did had something horribly wrong with them. They weren't socially awkward, they weren't otherwise normal guys, they were either severely psychologically messed up and/or they had an alcohol/drug problem.
Defending this predator is an insult to the vast majority of men who have the common decency not to do this.
Yep. There's a big difference between two people being shithoused and just going at each other over someone coercing someone to get them to have sex.
Please also consider that women do this as well. I had a situation earlier this year where a girl wouldn't let off until she got what she wanted. I caved and it was fucking horrible. It's wrong to think this way but as a dude I didn't report it due to the issues that come with a male reporting sexual assault.
What a fucking slimeball.
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I'm not convinced - "rape" seems like the wrong word for it but I do think there is a difference between consenting to sex and just giving in to it because the other person won't take 'no' for an answer. By the sounds of it he was both more sober than her and very coercive. Maybe that isn't "rape" but it also .... isn't quite right? I don't quite have the words for it, but do you see what I'm saying?
Coersion?
"He kept pushing the issue" and throwing retorts at her when she showed doubt about whether to have sex, and ignored her trying to say no. (I'm making an assumption that your question is about what coercion took place in this case, but I apologise if I'm wrong and you're actually asking something else - in which case, please elaborate?)
Edit; if you're suggesting it as the word I couldn't quite find - yes, that's the best word I can think of for it.
That's not what coercion (in regard to sex laws) means. Coercion means like holding a gun to someone's head, blackmailing them, threatening of some kind, etc. Basically coercing them against their will. She could have told him to leave, she could have gone somewhere else to sleep, she could have simply continued saying no... but she didn't. She admits she consented simply because she was annoyed and tired, which I find a bit strange, but that's a risk you take when you drink and start hooking up with people while you are drunk... you might do things you regret. Doesn't mean that just because you regret it it's coercion or rape. It just means you made a dumb decision. Is the guy a douche? Certainly sounds like it. A coercive rapist? Not so much.
The only way you can make the argument that begging for sex and getting it is coercive or rape is if you also make the argument that women are incapable of making decisions for themselves and shouldn't be held responsible for their actions. Because this is implying that if you just ask enough times they'll just give in. In other words if you are implying that annoying someone for sex should be considered coercion or rape... then what you are really saying speaks more about your negative opinion of women than anything else. (Or you think that regret should be rape and that making a bad decision is something you should be able to punish the other person for you making a dumb decision)
He means sexual coercion aka sexual assault.
Agreed. That's exactly what most men do.. Manipulation tactics, and well sorry but it worked.. It is not "rape" at all, she clearly stated she agreed.
She was intoxicated, this can qualify as rape because you weren't in your full right mind to make the decision with full knowledge of the consequences. Yes, it can be a crime.
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Um yeah. We should punish rapists for raping people. It is so obvious that 1. she was too drunk/high to consent, especially to a have sex with a knowingly less intoxicated person 2. she was heavily coerced into having sex (said yes to get him off her) and 3. did not enjoy it at all abs he didn't consider her pleasure in the least bit. These show that it was almost undoubtedly rape.
You realize that saying "yes" at some point doesn't constitute consent right? If someone holds a gun to your head and you say yes that in no way means you consented. These situations are obviously different, but we do draw the line somewhere. So I do not see why we shouldn't draw the line here, where someone was heavily coerced to being used as a fucking sex doll. I mean come on. How apologetic can you get towards rapists?.
OP if you feel used, you should report him if you feel like it. It should be entirely up to you, but don't listen to all of these people insisting you weren't raped. They are wrong. At the very least, you were definitely disrespected and abused.
She was hooking up with the guy consensually. She brought him downstairs. He was annoying, yes. She never said he was pushing himself on her, they were probably already hugging and cuddling considering they were already hooking up. She brought him to go to sleep with him down there. He didn't hold a gun to her head. He didn't threaten her. All he did was act like a douche by annoying her, hoping she'd say yes.
If you are suggesting this is coercion, then you are suggesting that women should take no responsibility for their actions. He was drunk and high too... just "less" so... supposedly... which is really difficult to know how drunk they both were or weren't from a few paragraphs of text from 1 side of the story. To suggest this is rape or coercion is just bat shit insane. She could have left, she could have continued to say no... she said yes because she wanted to sleep after having made a decision to drink and smoke.
Calling this rape is an insult to all the girls who have actually been coercively raped or forcefully raped. At no time after she said yes did she say no. Regret is not rape. (OP this is not directed at you, because you clearly acknowledge this in your post.)
It feels shitty, but sometimes we don't always make the best decisions when we are drunk. I've slept with a few that when I woke up, I was just thinking... fuck... what was I thinking. Just because I wouldn't have done it sober, doesn't mean it wasn't my decision to put the alcohol in my body and then consent to sex with someone who was also drunk. The fact of the matter is that if you go to a party and decide to take drugs or drink... you have to acknowledge that you might make bad decisions. That is the nature of drugs and alcohol. Calling this rape trivializes actual rape. This guy is a classless douche (from her side of the story), no doubt about it. But this wasn't forced rape or coercive... she could have walked the fuck out of that room to where her friends were at any time.
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Being pressured into consenting is not really consenting. No means no.
Well. He was inarguably shitty and manipulative. Technically, you could probably call it rape of sorts.
Still, the thing is, being a virgin or not isn't a huge deal. If you don't feel traumatized by this, don't try to. Everyone makes mistakes, it's not a huge deal. You're still just as valuable, you lost nothing.
As for the guy, tell him off and ignore him, and be assertive or he'll just keep pestering you.
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I won't call it rape but nonetheless the guy coerced a drunk girl into having sex, maybe it's not assault but it's still not a cool thing to do. If he didn't try to manipulate her by saying he's less drunk, I wouldn't say a word, but he clearly tried to take an advantage of OP's drunk state.
That is rape. That text book rape. 100 percent.
She was raped. The man raped her. I don't give a shit what YOU think rape is.
> He kept pushing the issue, saying it would help me relax and we would be safe. When I showed the slightest sign of doubt, he threw the "I'm more sober so I think I'm more right." shit at me. I tried to say no, but I was just too tired, so I agreed. He went ahead and had sex with me, and I basically acted as a blowup doll he thrusted for 45 minutes.
He knew damn well she didn't want to have sex with him. Her consent was coerced and she was under the influence. It was rape and the asshole deserves to have his life ripped to shreds. Go through the steps of the story, would you do what he did? Furthermore, do you believe this is the first time he's done that? The guy is a predator, every detail of her story makes that clear.
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Normal, decent guys do not coerce women to have sex with them. He's a rapist, he's not normal, he's not representative of the male population at large. It's not about feminism, it's about stopping a criminal.
Nobody is saying he is a normal decent person. Everybody thinks he's a giant asshole. That being said, she agreed to do it. It would be rape if she said no and he didn't, but she agreed to let it happen.
Rape is being forced to have sexual intercourse without consent. This is not rape.
That being said, nobody is saying that the guy is a good person.
Read it again, he did coerce her.
She did not willingly agree, she was coerced into doing so. She was raped and needs to make a police report and if she has a really good friend, tell them what happened so they can come with her to the police station.
It clearly wasn't the first time this man raped, and it won't be the last.
The fact that one or both people were intoxicated alone makes it rape.
Hey fellow gentleman, it's nice to see other true men here.
http://media.giphy.com/media/BNkHCHnAsZwRi/giphy.gif
Um...no.
Jesus I'd never do that, but it sure as fuck was not rape. If he was drunk he might've misinterpreted her consent.
>but I was just too tired, so I agreed.
THIS IS NOT RAPE. He's a giant cuntbucket manipulative asswipe, but that sure as fuck is not rape.
He didn't misinterpret it, he ignored everything she said and coerced her. It is rape.
The fact that a woman gave the consent and we are still invalidating her consent, is considering her as a child now.
If an adult made agreed to something, then its their choice. If you are going to make the claim that woman's ability to consent is based on the situation, then that's not really valuing women as adults who are capable of deciding for themselves.
First of all, adult males can be coerced into consent. Had OP been male it wouldn't be any different.
Secondly, she didn't consent, she relented. She's feeling ashamed of herself, which she shouldn't because she gave in.
How can you say this guys life should be "ripped to shreds" over this? I agree that it was shitty for him to force the issue, but in the end she consented; he didn't forcibly have sex with her. He also didn't know she was a virgin. Certainly confront him and certainly he should apologize and made to realize that he pushed this too far, but to call this rape and have a criminal record follow this guy for the rest of his life is just as wrong.
I borrowed that from another post that said his life shouldn't be "ripped to shreds" and I completely disagree with that given the circumstances. Read what you wrote! Forcing the issue is rape. He's a predator, a rapist and he deserves to be caught and prosecuted. He probably won't be prosecuted, but she should still go to the police and report it. At a minimum, he needs to be on their radar.
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doesnt matter. she could have easily cried rape and destroyed this mans life, destroyed his friendships, even if no rape charges ever occurred. thats why guys should not have drunk sex with drunk girls. all she had to do was come crying when going back to the living room and say he raped her.
that guy got off easy, because this girl doesnt stand up for herself. I guess this guy picked out his victim carefully. the insecure girl. shes a virgin, and seems pretty insecure.
Or the girl understands that she made the choice to go ahead with it, and therefore, she is taking responsibility for consenting? Not every woman looks to benefit from the shitty sexist judicial system that considers women as incapable of making decisions.
>If you don't feel traumatized by this, don't try to. Everyone makes mistakes, it's not a huge deal. You're still just as valuable, you lost nothing.
THIS!!!! This exactly!!
/u/TossOfACliff, don't be silenced by all the "Men's Rights" and "Red Pill" keyboard activists that frequently infest posts on reddit made by women in distress after being raped. They are manipulating you by pretending to give thoughtful advice that will only serve to advance their own agenda. One that champions the concept of a "man" being "alpha" by pretending that taking something through coercion is "manly". Go to the hospital. You were taken advantage of and you need to report it.
You need to have the courage to stand up to the person who has just taken advantage of you, because if you don't countless other females will fall victim to this creep.
I'm sorry to hear that your "No." was not respected. Do you feel safe where you are right now? Do you have a safe place to go? A locked room for example.
Tell one of your friends. It's not consensual if you are inebriated.
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And that's a fucking excuse? Jesus Christ what is wrong with you?
I am so sorry this happened to you. It's an awful situation and I can relate. I think the best thing you could do now would be to talk to a professional or someone who is trained to respond to these situations.
National Teen Dating Abuse Hotline: 1-866-331-9474 National Sexual Assault Hotline: 1-800-656-HOPE (4673) or if you just want someone to talk to: http://www.7cupsoftea.com/
Good luck!
Why the fuck are the top comments about it being a "shitty situation"?
OP was raped. This is not just a "shitty situation".
The misogyny on this thread right now is making me sick to my stomach and depressed for humanity.
It's being taken care of, please report the bad comments!
Thank you. I rarely have felt the need to speak up for another woman on Reddit because normally the majority in whichever sub I'm in shoot the garbage down immediately. So many appalling posts here.
Happened to a friend of mine, similar situation but yeah shitty none the less. She owned it and moved on, virginity is not such a big thing so don't let that bother you too much, anyone who tells you it is is fooling themselves. Guy sounds like a cock, put him in his place if he tries to insinuate anything or try it again.
Regardless that shit is not on, hope you kicked him out of the bed and told him he snores like a draw saw and farts in his sleep.
You were drunk and couldn't give consent. This was assault. And he sounds like an asshole.
Edit: it seems I am wrong about it being assault. OP, I'm sorry that this happened to you. I hope my comment didn't make you feel any worse. What he did was not okay and it was not your fault.
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Actually, I'm going to say that "I'm more sober so I know I'm right" screams more 'manipulativeness' and 'guilt-tripping opportunism' than 'insecurity'. He knew exactly what he was doing --- and he did know better. Guys usually do...
I feel like he knew exactly what he was doing. And it's not that I'm jaded or disappointed at all in how it went down, I'm just more concerned that my saying no meant nothing.
It didn't. Otherwise, he would have stopped.
You can't change what happened (unfortunately) but next time you might want to push back with a 'No! Fuck Off!'. Dudes need to get the message.
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No, there was no one else who saw. I just want to leave and go home more than anything. I really do not want to deal with any of this.
Can someone come and get you? They don't need to know the reason, if they ask, you had a fight and don't want to talk about it. If you want to talk then talk. If you need to go, then go, you don't owe anyone anything. It's your life, live by your rules.
We planned on leaving today anyways, so I'm going to be out of here in a matter of time.
Great. Like what anonred said, when you get home and are still confused go talk to a counselor for a session. It may help you.
Click here when you are away from the cabin and at a stopping point, this will show you all the counseling offices near you
Yeah I think I'm going to do that. This isn't something I can handle on my own.
Good luck. I hope you can get through this with as few issues as possible.
You dont have to stay. You feel uncomfortable being there so don't worry about leaving. If your friends truly care about you they will understand your situation. Just leave and rent a hotel near you if you can't get where you want to go in one day.
Irrelevant. I was specifically talking about guys.
But, yes, EVERYONE has a right to reject sexual/sexualized advances.
>Guys usually do...
That is what you wrote and I responded to in my first paragraph.
I know.
No means no dude. Having a good time and having a few drinks and waking up with regret is one thing. Saying no and being manipulated and pressured into saying yes is something else entirely. It did not seem that OP ever wanted to have sex.
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Coerced consent is not consent.
If you were drunk, it was rape. If you consumed enough alcohol that you felt too tired to not lose your virginity to a stranger that you didn't like, then I think it's safe to say you didn't consent.
Rape apologia will be banned instantly in this thread.
OP, I'm so sorry about these awful comments. If we miss any, please send us a message and we'll take care of it.
"Rape" is a weird word. It can control you. You didn't have consensual sex. What he did was wrong, and illegal. If you don't want to go to the police (and I don't blame you if you don't, especially if you're in a rural area at a college), you might want to see a therapist at least. You're not alone in this. You have options for help.
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But he pressured her. Whatever the law says, what he has done is horrible. Having been pressured myself, it can be an incredibly scarring experience because someone is still using your body in a way you don't want.
This can be labeled as sexual assault if you feel it should. The law is on your side in this case. You were intoxicated, so in most states, the consent you gave was not legally valid. Additionally, it was coerced consent, so, again, it's not legally valid. He took advantage of you, and if you feel it would help you feel safer, or give you closure, or if it would have any benefit whatsoever, you should report him.
You said no. That was a valid reaction. This was not your fault. He is in the wrong for having pushed you into this.
If you choose not to report him, then at the very least, you need to tell him that it was a mistake, that you very much do not want to pursue anything further with him, and that you don't feel safe being around him any more.
Please tell your friends. They can be there to support you through this. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
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You have not even a basic understanding and human psychology.
yea, you were drunk and said no and he continued to pester you until you gave in because you didnt have the will to fight him any more. Sounds like rape to me
How is this not rape, or sexual assault? He knew you weren't sober, you repeatedly said no, and he pursued the topic and coerced you into doing it. Doesn't that make it rape?
Either way, I'm sorry this happened to you OP. I hope you can enjoy the rest of the party. If you feel it necessary, tell someone. IMO this piece of human scum should be reported.
Although you consented at the time, you can have that changed to disconsent due to being intoxicated. If you took him to court you'd win.
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Okay Mr. Supposed lawyer, you know that laws aren't the same everywhere yes? They taught you that in law school I'm sure. Did you fall asleep during the class they explained consent? Because it seems your definition is "anytime someone says yes no matter the circumstances". Which is wrong. In every way. You're also discouraging a victim from reporting to the police in obvious wrongdoing.
The issue of intoxication and consent is a big grey area. If what she says above is true, then I think it is probably likely that she would win due to how much women in these situations are put on this pedestal in these situations, that although I think he is innocent and should not be done for anything, She would probably win.
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I'm not saying it should be like it is. But the fact that she was intoxicated, implies that she was not in the right mind to be making those decisions, which means these days people are changing their consent on that fact, and accusing people of rape, when they were both drunk.
That was rape. When you have alcohol in you you automatically, by law (in the states), become incapable of making sound decision to have sex. You were raped and should report the fucker. To your friends and police. You saying "No" and him pushing you towards it is also rape. It doesn't matter when you say no (even if its during the act) if the other party doesn't stop immediately it becomes rape.
Report, report, report. Have a rape kit done on you too (go to a hospital and they should be able to do it no problem. They can also give you a lot of information of what to do, and you don't have to report him if you don't want to. But rape kit is good to be done, especially if STIs are involved) better be safe then sorry with STIs later.
EDIT: To have a rape kit done don't change anything. Bring spare change of clothes with you to a hospital but don't change out of your clothes, don't even wash your hands or drink water. Go to a hospital and have rape kit done on you. Even of you don't want to report him, that's still okay, you don't have to, but please have the rape kit done.